Thread: House speaker recommends fast-track charter rewrite

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Pheu Thai's Lampoon MP to gather 50,000 signatures to propose amendment to Constitution; expects to complete signature collection by Jan 20

Originally Posted by StrontiumDog

"The structure of the judiciary must be revamped. The selection of judges must be approved by parliament."

Everybody knows he's more likely talking about the Processes and procedures involved, not the individuals

Originally Posted by Calgary

^
Well, the battle lines are being drawn

The UDD will accept nothing less than Constitutional reform....NOW....nothing less.

We will see where this goes.

Chalerm has also mentioned these cowardly delays.

And we all know who they are cowering from.

That makes Thaksin, Apiwan and Chalerm.

Reminds me of the adage, "Lead, or get out of the damn way".

The UDD/Red Shirts around here, are running around all over the place, obtaining signatures formalized with addresses and ID numbers. This activity is mirrored by others nation wide.

They are not about to do all that, and then sit quietly by, while a few cowards run for cover.

This is going to separate the men from the boys, the wheat from the chaff, etc.

The voters are not accepting disrespect and being shoved aside by institutions who think they supercede electoral results. Constitutional reform was a basic electoral promise and it will be acted upon.

Or not.

Than the adage "by their works shall ye know them" will come strongly to the fore.

As I watch and listen to the hyper-activity of the UDD foot soldiers the last few days, in this signature campaign to force the Constitution thing, it is becoming clear that there is a two-track process going on. It is not a case of 'battle lines being drawn", as I thought yesterday.

It is a case of Govtl. types denying the need to rush Constitution reform. Thereby deflecting a frontal attack, while the 'people' think and "DO" otherwise.

If local activity is any indication of national initiatives - and it is - "The people" are doing it, big time, right now!

Let the Amart attack "The people", to protect the protections they built into the coup constitution for themselves.

They have been good at that in the past.

Bangkok Post : Pheu Thai says public should steer charter push

Pheu Thai says public should steer charter push

• Published: 6/01/2012 at 12:00 AM
• Newspaper section: News

The Pheu Thai Party has decided to step away from pushing for constitutional amendment but let pressure groups, particularly the red shirts, take a leading role in seeking the change.

The move is seen as the party's strategy to deal with stiff resistance from its opponents.

Pheu Thai MP for Nong Khai Pongpan Sunthornchai yesterday said party MPs had agreed that it would not serve the interests of Pheu Thai to spearhead the charter rewrite push as this could leave the party more vulnerable to attack from its opponents and could stir up more conflict in society.

He said the preferred option would be to allow the public to play a leading role in seeking an amendment to Section 291 of the constitution to set up a Constitution Drafting Assembly (CDA). The section allows only ministers and MPs to put forward proposed amendments to the charter, rather than a CDA.

Deputy Prime Minister Chalerm Yubamrung, also chair of Pheu Thai MPs, has proposed the CDA will consist of 77 members who will be elected from Thailand's 77 provinces as well as 22 academics.

Pheu Thai would provide the necessary support for those people taking part in the constitutional change process, Mr Pongpan said.

"The constitution is not democratic and amending it is inevitable. We would be met with resistance if we insisted on going ahead on our own," he said.

Mr Chalerm earlier said the process of charter amendment should be postponed for the next eight months until the government's policies bear fruit.

Pheu Thai MP for Nonthaburi Apiwan Wiriyachai said he agreed with Mr Chalerm's proposal to delay the charter amendment process.

Col Apiwan also believed that the government and Pheu Thai should not be the key players in the process to amend the constitution.

The overriding priority is for the government to focus on flood rehabilitation efforts.

Only after the people have fully recovered from the flood disaster should the government begin to think of charter amendment, Col Apiwan said.

Pheu Thai list MPs and red shirt co-leader Payap Panket said the red shirt United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship had finished its version of a charter amendment bill.

He said the UDD was now gathering signatures to push for its constitutional amendment bill to be tabled to parliament. Many red shirt supporters nationwide are ready to support the signature drive, Mr Payap added

Mr Payap said the UDD plans to rewrite the entire present constitution, with the 1997 charter as a model.

Pheu Thai MP for Nonthaburi and government chief whip Udomdej Rattanasathien said all sides had reached a common position that Section 291 will be amended to set up the CDA. It will then be left to the CDA to consider amendments to the constitution.

Mr Udomdej believed the charter amendment would take place during the present House session.

Sign-up campaign on charter change to be finished by Jan 20 - The Nation

Sign-up campaign on charter change to be finished by Jan 20

THE NATION
January 6, 2012 1:00 am

A campaign seeking the signatures of 50,000 voters to sponsor a motion on charter amendment is expected to be completed by January 20, an MP from the ruling Pheu Thai Party said yesterday.

"The motion to amend the Constitution should be ready for legislative debate by next month," said MP Sanguan Pongmanee, who is campaigning for charter changes on behalf of the red shirts.

Sanguan said the gist of the motion was to pave the way for the formation of a Constitution Drafting Assembly by amending the charter's Article 291 pertaining to rewriting the Constitution.

He said the draft to amend Article 291 had already been finalised, spelling out the details of the CDA.

The CDA should comprise 101 elected charter writers and the deadline to complete the rewrite is 240 days. The 77 CDA seats will be allocated to each province and the remaining 24 seats will include leading figures from the academic circle.

The referendum vote will be organised following the completion of the charter draft.

Meanwhile, Pheu Thai MP Apiwan Wiriyachai yesterday said the ruling party had submitted no parliamentary motion for constitutional amendment.

He said the party had nothing to do with the amendment draft to be submitted to the House of Representatives by the red shirts. "MPs may initiate constitutional amendment but the government will not do it," said Apiwan, a former deputy House speaker.

Apiwan also expressed support for Deputy Prime Minister Chalerm Yoobamrung's stance that it was too early to make moves on constitutional amendment and that the government should now focus on rehabilitation for flood victims in the industrial, agricultural, and residential sectors.

Opposition Democrat MP Jurin Laksanavisit yesterday called on the Pheu Thai-led government to "be brave enough to host" the constitutional amendment. He said the ruling party had made charter change its election promise and therefore it should come forward to take responsibility for the matter.

He also warned that any constitutional amendment for personal benefit could lead to a new round of political conflict.

Thai-ASEAN News Network - Govt Urged to Heed Majority Voice on Charter Changes



Govt Urged to Heed Majority Voice on Charter Changes

UPDATE : 6 January 2012

The Air Force Chief suggests the general public be allowed to voice their opinions on the charter amendment and participate in the process.

Air Force Chief Air Chief Marshal Itthiporn Supawong said democracy should not be used as an excuse to justify the constitution amendment and the people must be asked which particular articles should be rewritten.

Itthiporn said the amendment should not be solely limited to legislators given that the people must take part in the process.

On the allocation of the state budget for the Air Force, Itthiporn stated his agency has already proposed to the government the amount of funds needed to rehabilitate infrastructure and armament damaged by the recent flooding.

He revealed that a quick approval is needed so the Air Force can resume full operations as soon as possible.

Itthiporn received well-wishes from his subordinates on the occasion of his birthday today.

Itthiporn said he wished peace be restored in Thailand.

Thai-ASEAN News Network - Army Chief Warns against Charter Change Impact

Army Chief Warns against Charter Change Impact

UPDATE : 6 January 2012

The army chief has voiced concern about the planned constitutional amendment saying it must be carried out carefully to prevent escalation of social discord and turmoil.

Army Chief General Prayuth Chan-ocha said all parties must be involved in the amendment of the Constitution.

He warned that a decision over the matter will determine the country's fate, particularly social peace.


Prayuth remarked that every segment of society should share the same goal of moving Thailand forward so the revision must not lead to any setbacks or chaos.

The general stated the Army has nothing to do with the Constitution amendment, given that it is an administrative issue.

However, he maintained that his agency is always ready to perform its duty of overseeing security should color-coded protesters return to the streets.

Commenting on the Army's flood relief operations in the South, Prayuth stated that flooding prevails in three provinces, namely Chumphon, Surat Thani and Nakhon Si Thammarat.

Army officials are now accelerating their efforts to repair damaged bridges in order to reconnect locals with the outside world.

The general suggested assistance from the Army can only ease flooding impact to a certain extent, but there must be a solution to prevent re-occurrence.

Prayuth went on to say he will seek a meeting with the Internal Security Operations Command and the Natural Resources and Environment Ministry to discuss forest encroachment for the extension of rubber plantations.

He said more than 200,000 rai of forest land are illegally occupied and insisted legal action must be taken against offenders.

The general went on to say he is not worried about the government's plan to cut the Army's budget as the allocation of state funds must depend solely on which agency needs the funds urgently.

Today, Prayuth presided over the 112th anniversary of the establishment of the Army Medicine Department and handed awards to outstanding staff members.

Gov't should appoint charter writers: NRLC - The Nation

Gov't should appoint charter writers: NRLC

The Nation January 6, 2012 10:50 am


The Independent National Rule of Law Commission (NRLC), led by Ukrit Mongkolnavin, has issued a statement on charter change, suggesting a government-appointed panel of 34 charter writers.

The NRLC, handpicked and appointed by Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra, argues against the mainstream idea of forming the Constitution Drafting Assembly to take charge of rewriting.

Instead, it has unveiled a suggested list of 34 writers. The 34 include former charter writers in charge of the 2007 Constitution and the suspended 1997 charter.

The other prominent figures on the list are academics seen as pro-Pheu Thai , such as Chusak Sirinil, plus well-known journalists like Kanchai Boonparn of the Matichon Group and Suthichai Yoon of the Nation Multimedia Group, publisher of The Nation.

The panel will include supporters of the People's Alliance for Democracy, such as Parthep Pourpongpan but the Democrats would be excluded.

Legal scholars on the list are Bowornsak Uwanno of King Prajadhipok's Institute who drafted the suspended people's charter and Somkid Lertpaitoon of Thammasat University who drafted the 2007 Constitution.

The prominent figures, including those in the red and yellow camps, include Wissanu Kreangarm, Vorachet Pakeerat of the Nitirat Group, Somkiart Onwimol, Sak Korsaengreang, Surranand Vejjajiva, Pansak Vinyaratn, Parnpree Bahiddhanukara, Pongthep Thepkanchana, Prommin Lertsuridej and Chaturon Chaisang.

The gist of the NRLC's road map to amend the charter is to entrust the panel to take charge of the charter draft in lieu of the CDA.

The government should sponsor the charter draft for legislative deliberation. The draft should undergo the three readings by Parliament. In the second reading, a public hearing should be held for each draft provision.

The referendum vote should be organised after the passage of the charter draft and before enactment.

Originally Posted by StrontiumDog

The general stated the Army has nothing to do with the Constitution amendment, given that it is an administrative issue.

then why the fcuk is General Prayuth spending so much time talking about it?

Originally Posted by StrontiumDog

Sounds nice, right? Then he says this...

"The structure of the judiciary must be revamped. The selection of judges must be approved by parliament."

Which means automatic fail....no parliament is going to approve judges that wont work with it. In fact here, this could be an extremely dangerous move. Total control over the judiciary by... government of the day, whoever it is.

Yeah you're right SD, maybe it should be left to a group of people whose names start with "Na". You're a real establishment fucking syncophant aren't you?

Would anyone who is NOT celebrating Chinese New Year - and who is not a fake Thai - please stand up (if you can - even with assistance)? Thought not.

Originally Posted by StrontiumDog

Sounds nice, right? Then he says this...

"The structure of the judiciary must be revamped. The selection of judges must be approved by parliament."

Which means automatic fail....no parliament is going to approve judges that wont work with it. In fact here, this could be an extremely dangerous move. Total control over the judiciary by... government of the day, whoever it is.

Extremely dangerous? Most democracies have judges appointed in some form by the government. Do you prefer them appointed by an old mates club instead?

^ and ^^^ no, I think they should be appointed on merit.....having proven their skill and ability.

Jeez, Tom, you do live in a strange world.

Originally Posted by Calgary

Ignoring that electoral promise, plus now this petition, there would be"hell to pay".

Yeah.... no doubt they'll organise another petition complaining about them ignoring the first petition.

Originally Posted by Tom Sawyer

Would anyone who is NOT celebrating Chinese New Year - and who is not a fake Thai - please stand up (if you can - even with assistance)? Thought not.

Not really relevant, as real Thais put them there.

The Chinese in Thailand are on both sides of the line.

In other SEA countries they were often the victims of pogroms and other such niceties, in Thailand they hardly ever got hit badly.

You seem to be somewhat anti- Chinese, why is that?

Originally Posted by StrontiumDog

^ and ^^^ no, I think they should be appointed on merit.....having proven their skill and ability.


Jeez, Tom, you do live in a strange world.

No I don't SD. But you? You are Elvis-in-you-mind and he's left the building

Bangkok Post : 'Dictatorial' charter plan under attack

'Dictatorial' charter plan under attack

DEMOCRATS SLAM COMMISSION PROPOSAL

• Published: 8/01/2012 at 12:00 AM
• Newspaper section: News

The Democrat Party has lambasted a "dictatorial" proposal to set up a constitution drafting panel.

Democrat spokesman Chavanond Intarakomalyasut yesterday said the proposal by the government-appointed National Independent Rule of Law Commission was actually against the rule of law principle. He demanded to know what criteria would be used to select people to sit on such a panel.

The commission, led by Ukrit Mongkolnavin, proposed a procedure to amend the charter on Friday. It said any amendment must be based on the rule of law and pass through parliamentary scrutiny rather than the planned constitution-drafting assembly (CDA).

The commission's proposal calls on cabinet to set up a drafting panel of 30-35 members from concerned parties.

The Ukrit commission disagreed with the CDA model, saying many assembly members from different backgrounds were not qualified to deal with the issue and that the body could be dominated by some groups, particularly those members who represent the government.

Mr Chavanond described the proposed panel as being dictatorial. He questioned the commission's motive, saying it had kept a low profile for the past six months but had suddenly came up with a proposal to amend the charter.

Mr Ukrit yesterday insisted that the proposal was intended to ensure the rule of law was not violated.

He said some organisations installed by the 2006 coup makers have remained and were still usurping the people's power.

For example, he said, a group of five people has the power to dissolve political parties that are supported by many people. He was referring to the Election Commission.

He also said he had no personal relations with any of the persons proposed by the commission to sit on the charter-drafting panel

Mr Ukrit said he would present the commission's recommendations on the charter amendment to the government and parliament this week.

Former Bangkok senator and charter drafter Seree Suwanpanon said he did not know the details of the proposed drafting panel, but he said the proposal should be given proper attention.

He urged all parties to listen to different opinions so that the constitutional amendment is acceptable to all sides.

Senator Sak Korsaengruang, who is among the people proposed by the commission, said he had not yet been approached to sit on the drafting panel.

He said he had his hands full with other urgent tasks and that he would not accept the offer if he could not devote himself fully to the role.

The government whip will discuss the charter amendment tomorrow.

-----
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/poli...-30173340.html

Panel backs appointed drafting assembly

The Nation on Sunday January 8, 2012 1:00 am

Election seen as too costly; Democrats say plan 'dictatorial'

Ukrit Mongkolnawin, chairman of the Independent National Committee to Promote the Rule of Law, has recommended that 34 experts be appointed to a committee to amend the 2007 junta-sponsored charter.

Ukrit said he would formally present the proposal to the government and Parliament next week. He explained that an expert committee is needed to rewrite the charter because "the government and the people" still do not understand the issue of the rule of law, and that there have been violations of the current charter.

He said three or four organisations created by the then military junta, known as the Council for National Security, are still in existence - and ought not to be. This, he said, is tantamount to a violation of the people's sovereignty under the charter.

Ukrit said he won't be disappointed if the Yingluck Shinawatra administration rejects his proposals, but added that history will at least record his suggestion, which was offered in a spirit of altruism and with society's interests at heart.

The proposal, if accepted, would spare the expense of having to or-ganise a nation-wide election of members of a Constitution Draft-ing Committee, Ukrit said. Handpicked experts would be more qualified to finish the task, said Ukrit, adding that he is not personally close to any of the 34 people he has in mind and whose identities he will reveal soon.

Seri Suwanphanon, a former member of the Constitution Drafting Assembly (CDA), said Ukrit's proposal was "suspicious" and could lead to more conflict. Ukrit's claim that it would save time, said Seri, was of little consequence given the seriousness of the matter.

In a related development, Senator Sak Korsaengruang, believed to be one of the experts who would sit on the constitution-drafting committee at the centre of Ukrit’s proposal, said he would wait for more details before reacting the plan. He added that he has many duties as a senator and as president of the Law Society of Thailand.

Sak refused to say whether the move to rewrite the charter now is appropriate or not, adding, however, that people must examine whether there are any problems with the current charter before making any move.

Democrat Party spokesperson Chavanond Intarakomalsut said Ukrit's proposal may itself go against the rule of law, and asked to know what criteria Ukrit is using to select the 34 members. "[The idea] is most dictatorial," said Chavanond.

As for the proposal by the Nitirat group of law lecturers to amend the lese majeste law, Chavanond said he was looking into the details of the proposal with a view to charging the lecturers over their use of academic works to harm the institution of the monarchy. Chavanond urged the group to stop sewing "rifts and chaos" in society.

Deputy Prime Minister Chalerm Yoobamrung also reiterated yesterday that the Pheu Thai Party has no plan to amend lese majeste law.

Originally Posted by tomta

Originally Posted by StrontiumDog

The general stated the Army has nothing to do with the Constitution amendment, given that it is an administrative issue.

then why the fcuk is General Prayuth spending so much time talking about it?

good point - Good General has eggs in many baskets

Originally Posted by Tom Sawyer

Originally Posted by StrontiumDog

Sounds nice, right? Then he says this...

"The structure of the judiciary must be revamped. The selection of judges must be approved by parliament."

Which means automatic fail....no parliament is going to approve judges that wont work with it. In fact here, this could be an extremely dangerous move. Total control over the judiciary by... government of the day, whoever it is.

Yeah you're right SD, maybe it should be left to a group of people whose names start with "Na". You're a real establishment fucking syncophant aren't you?

A wannabe

Originally Posted by StrontiumDog

^ and ^^^ no, I think they should be appointed on merit.....having proven their skill and ability.

Jeez, Tom, you do live in a strange world.

What I understand from here, it is you who is a stranger in a strange land.

Distanced from real life like a politician.

^

You know Tom's in real trouble when Nostromo agrees with him....