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  1. #76
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    dying for Democracy with terrorism, no doubt an "honest mistake"

  2. #77
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    http://www.bangkokpost.com/opinion/o...mb-masterminds

    EDITORIAL

    Seek out bomb masterminds
    • Published: 7/10/2010 at 12:00 AM
    • Newspaper section: News

    Tuesday night's powerful bomb blast in an apartment building in Nonthaburi appears to confirm earlier intelligence reports that Bangkok and its neighbouring provinces are to be rocked by more explosions this month, which marks two historically important political events - the October 6 bloody suppression of student activities in 1976 and the October 14 student-led uprising against military dictatorship in 1973.



    Four people were killed and nine others injured in the explosion at Samarn Metta Mansion. Pol Maj-Gen Sriwara Rangsipromkul, acting commissioner of Region One Provincial Police, said the blast was caused by high-impact explosive such as TNT. He said the apartment room where the explosion took place was suspected to be a make-shift bomb-making laboratory where a large amount of explosives were stored.

    According to a police report, the room in question had been leased to a Chiang Mai native identified as Samai Wongsuwan, who is wanted by police for alleged involvement in an April bomb attack at Poseidon massage parlour. Video footage from a closed-circuit TV camera installed in the apartment building showed a man leaving the room in question before the blast occurred. The identity of the tenant and the evidence unearthed at the crime scene should provide police with clues to track down the bomb-maker and his associates and, hopefully, lead to the person or persons pulling the strings behind the spate of bomb attacks in the capital and suburbs. In September alone, Bangkok and its neighbouring provinces were shaken by nine bomb incidents although most of the bombs were actually improvised explosive devices which failed to explode or were defused by bomb demolition squads. Still, these incidents - which police believe were intended to create fear and discredit the government rather than kill or maim - have impacted on the country's image and tourism business.

    However, Tuesday's bomb incident in Nonthaburi might be different. Given the amount of explosives involved - believed by police to weigh at least 10 kilogrammes - the casualties and destruction caused to the apartment building, which has been declared unsafe due to the explosion, the perpetrators this time may have intended to kill and maim, rather than merely intimidate.

    Several fire extinguishers filled with urea fertiliser and an AK47 assault rifle were also recovered from the scene of the explosion. It should be noted that explosives-filled fire extinguishers have become a popular weapon of choice of the insurgents in the deep South.

    Although there is the possibility that the Nonthaburi blast may have been accidental, the size and impact of the explosion raises the very frightening spectre of how many people might have been killed and maimed had the explosive devices been planted around the capital.

    This latest deadly blast poses a serious challenge to the police in general and to the new police chief, Pol Gen Wichean Potephosree, in particular. Despite the spate of bomb incidents throughout September, not a single suspect has been arrested.

    But this time around, the threat is deadlier and the public is now at greater risk. The poor performance of the police can no longer be tolerated and no more excuses are acceptable. The police must produce results.
    "Slavery is the daughter of darkness; an ignorant people is the blind instrument of its own destruction; ambition and intrigue take advantage of the credulity and inexperience of men who have no political, economic or civil knowledge. They mistake pure illusion for reality, license for freedom, treason for patriotism, vengeance for justice."-Simón Bolívar

  3. #78
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    Where's that genius Tom Sawyer, claiming it was a meth lab....?

  4. #79
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    Well, now that the smoke has cleared a bit it seems that this bloke was hoisted on his own petard and met with a fitting end. There can never be any excuse for mindless violence that takes the lives of innocent bystanders.

    However, there are a lot of people who erroneously take the mad scheming of one or more extremists as being atypical of the adverage red shirt. Surely, the absurdity of this viewpoint must be as obvious as it is briefly satisfying. During the PAD protests we saw pictures of some nut shooting a gun from the back of a pick up whilst his colleague waved a picture of royalty behind him. Can we construe from this that all the loyalist yellowshirts are gun toting hoodlums ?

    When it comes to religion , politics and sex there are always going to be a few nutters that are ' way out there ' in their views and actions but it would be much more productive to listen to the voices of the moderates of both sides than to fasten onto the divisive actions of a handful and use them as a justification of extremist counter opinion and reaction.

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by StrontiumDog
    Where's that genius Tom Sawyer, claiming it was a meth lab....?
    like DrB, he is hiding when faced with facts or reality, or whatever take them away from their alternate reality.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bangyai View Post
    Well, now that the smoke has cleared a bit it seems that this bloke was hoisted on his own petard and met with a fitting end. There can never be any excuse for mindless violence that takes the lives of innocent bystanders.

    However, there are a lot of people who erroneously take the mad scheming of one or more extremists as being atypical of the adverage red shirt. Surely, the absurdity of this viewpoint must be as obvious as it is briefly satisfying. During the PAD protests we saw pictures of some nut shooting a gun from the back of a pick up whilst his colleague waved a picture of royalty behind him. Can we construe from this that all the loyalist yellowshirts are gun toting hoodlums ?

    When it comes to religion , politics and sex there are always going to be a few nutters that are ' way out there ' in their views and actions but it would be much more productive to listen to the voices of the moderates of both sides than to
    fasten onto the divisive actions of a handful and use them as a justification of extremist counter opinion and reaction.
    Of course, but this approach is far to rational and reasonable for a farang forum in Thailand.... We farangs usually like to try, convict and execute somebody before we even know exactly what has happened, with no apologies or remorse when we are wrong....which is quite often...

  7. #82
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    http://www.bangkokpost.com/opinion/o...ocracy-fighter

    Bombmaker, or real fighter for democracy?
    • Published: 7/10/2010 at 11:30 AM
    • Online news: Opinion
    With an active red-shirt supporter implicated in the latest and deadly bomb blast in Nonthaburi, the bruised image of the red-shirt movement has taken another serious blow. So has the Puea Thai Party.

    The opposition Puea Thai Party can issue as many denials as they wish, telling the world that the party or the red-shirt movement, officially known as the United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD), had nothing to do with the deadly bomb blast at an apartment building in Nonthaburi on Tuesday night.

    Four people were killed and nine injured in the latest explosion.

    But there is one undeniable fact that the party may feel too embarrassed to admit – that the tenant of room 202 of Samarn Metta Mansion, the room where the bomb went off, was identified as Samai Wongsuwan, a native of Hang Dong district in Chiang Mai and a known red-shirt supporter.

    While categorically denying any responsibility for the tragedy, Puea Thai spokesman Prompong Nopparit suggested that the bomb blast might actually be the work of someone connected with a government party.

    He told a press conference on Wednesday that since the bomb-making materials found at the crime scene were not of the type used by the military, it was possible that they might have been obtained from the rock-blasting industry, or a quarry.

    That led to a big question: Who in the government is involved in the quarrying business, which must have explosives, including TNT, at its disposal to shatter rock.

    The father-in-law of Newin Chidchob, the de facto leader of Bhumjaithai and the Puea Thai Party’s arch rival, has been operating a rock-blasting business in Chiang Mai and elsewhere.
    Mr Newin's own family has the See La Chai rock quarry in Buri Ram, his home province.

    Puea Thai MP for Nakhon Ratchasima Somchai Paetprasert said he thought one of the following four groups of people might be responsible: enemies of the government; those benefiting from the emergency rule who do not want to the decree to be lifted; political groups who do not want a general election; and those who want another coup.

    Of all the rhetoric from the Puea Thai members, there was no mention whatsoever of Samai Wongsuwan, the tenant of room 202 of Samarn Metta Mansion apartment, suspected to have been killed in the explosion while in the process of assembling an improvised explosive device.

    Fire extinguisher cylinders stuffed with urea fertiliser, bomb-making materials and an assault rifle were later retrieved from the scene.

    According to Samai’s wife, Buakham Muangma, who is living in Hang Dong district of Chiang Mai, her husband was fiercely loyal to former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra and very active in the red-shirt movement.

    Samai, according to Mrs Buakham, never missed red-shirt protests in Bangkok and Chiang Mai. He was shot in the cheek during the clash at Kok Wua intersection in Bangkok in April 10. After the end of the May protest, he returned home for a couple of days and then left and she had not heard from him since.

    Samai was wanted by the police on several counts, including a bomb attack of the Love the Monarchy Centre in Chiang Mai in September last year.

    Samai was also reported to be a member of Chiang Mai 51, a notorious offshoot of UDD in Chiang Mai, which has chalked up a long list of violent activities. These include the forced breakup of the Gay Pride parade in Chiang Mai in February last year; a raid on the Santi Asoke office in Chiang Mai in January last year; and slapping the face of a female lecturer when she tried to stop a red-shirt mob from interrupting a reunion of Chiangmai University alumni while looking for one of the alumni, Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thaugsuban, in February this year.

    Mrs Buakham may well view Samai as a real fighter for democracy. Personally, I disagree -- a real fighter for democracy does not make bombs that kill or maim innocent people.

    The silence from the Puea Thai Party about Samai speaks volumes - and can only be interpreted as their endorsement of his illegal activities.

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bangyai View Post
    Well, now that the smoke has cleared a bit it seems that this bloke was hoisted on his own petard and met with a fitting end. There can never be any excuse for mindless violence that takes the lives of innocent bystanders.

    However, there are a lot of people who erroneously take the mad scheming of one or more extremists as being atypical of the adverage red shirt. Surely, the absurdity of this viewpoint must be as obvious as it is briefly satisfying. During the PAD protests we saw pictures of some nut shooting a gun from the back of a pick up whilst his colleague waved a picture of royalty behind him. Can we construe from this that all the loyalist yellowshirts are gun toting hoodlums ?

    When it comes to religion , politics and sex there are always going to be a few nutters that are ' way out there ' in their views and actions but it would be much more productive to listen to the voices of the moderates of both sides than to fasten onto the divisive actions of a handful and use them as a justification of extremist counter opinion and reaction.
    Thank you. A voice of reason, though maybe the first few words might seem a tad insensitive

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by StrontiumDog View Post
    ....

    The silence from the Puea Thai Party about Samai speaks volumes - and can only be interpreted as their endorsement of his illegal activities.

    I don't think that is a fair comment and in many cases not accurate.

    To me, the problem is the wide range of factions and goals within the UDD and its political party the PP is sometimes left with having to defend the tactics of people with whom they do not really agree.

    TH


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    http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home...-30139579.html


    Family ties denied between Prawit and bomber

    Despite sharing the same last name, Defence Minister Prawit Wongsuwan has no family ties nor any linkage with suspected bomber Samai Wonsuwan who died in the Bang Bua Thong explosion on Tuesday, Defence spokesmand Colonel Thanathip Sawangsaeng said.

    Thanathip said Pheu Thai MP Jatuporn Promphan tried to fabricate a story to involve Prawit in the bomb blast that accidentally went off.

    Earlier Jatuporn cast doubt about the linkage between the botched bomb making the red-shirt movement by pointing out to the last name of the bomber.

    The Nation

  11. #86
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    Wow, Jatuporn and his cronies are getting desperate, seizing upon anything they can to avoid the spotlight shining their way.

    A veritable squirm-fest.

  12. #87
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    http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home...-30139583.html


    Fourth body found in the mansion belongs to Samai : police spokesman

    The fourth body retrieved from debris of a Nonthaburi mansion which was hit by powerful blast is confirmed to be Samai Wongsuwan, a staunch red supporter, Police spokesman Pol Maj Gen Prawuth Thawornsiri said Thursday.

    After a powerful explosion ripped off Samarn Metta Mansion in Nonthaburi's Bang Bua Thong district on Tuesday, police found a severed arm under the debris. Later on Thursday, police found a body, partly charred with face mutilated beyond recognition under a room where bombs were believed to be assembled.

    Police were initially not sure whether the body was Samai, a suspected bomb maker, who rented a room two weeks ago.

    Prawut told reporters that forensic officers found that fingerprints from the mutilated arm matched those in Samai's criminal record in 2009.

    "Three fingers of the severed arm are good enough to get the fingerprints. They match those of Samai's fingerprints in his criminal record. However we would use the DNA testing confirm the finding," the spokesman said.

  13. #88
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    Well, I have said before that the governments suppression of any oppositon will eventually cause a backlash. I put the blame firmly on the govenments policies.

    Unfortunately this will only help the present rulers.

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Takeovers
    Well, I have said before that the governments suppression of any oppositon will eventually cause a backlash. I put the blame firmly on the govenments policies.

    Unfortunately this will only help the present rule
    glad you supported the cause of the yellow shirt too then

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    Quote Originally Posted by Butterfly
    glad you supported the cause of the yellow shirt too then
    Of course not. The yellows were part and parcel in destroying democracy and installing the present one. I don't supported that.

  16. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by ossierob View Post
    There does seem to be quite a bit of misinformation here as they reported it as a TNT explosion and also as Urea contained in Fire extinguishers which would make it an AN (Ammonium Nitrate) explosion. AN and TNT are entirely different products. Maybe they were found together which is possible though highly improbable. As a licenced shotfirer I have used AN many times as the main blasting agent with TNT as a booster.
    Yes, it's not a meth lab (with two days of more information that can be claimed - but no way that was clear at the time SD - the 'authorities' were way too quick to say it was TNT and even claim they knew the amount that caused the damage).

    This all seems a bit too conveniently timed as well. But like so many other things here the official story has now become the official story. And no one will question it.

    As for some who claim that this means the red shirts are behind all the small grenade attacks in recent weeks at bus stops etc - bullshit - it doesn't prove anything.

    If we go along with the official story that this was a red shirt bomb-making factory, that doesn't tell you who the targets were. For all anyone knows the targets could have been the yellows, the government or the military.

    Some like SD, Pickel and BF will conveniently skip over the last part..
    My mind is not for rent to any God or Government, There's no hope for your discontent - the changes are permanent!

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    His wife was interviewed on TV saying he was an avid red shirt supporter...

    His body and fingerprints were found at the scene.

    The bomb making material was the same as used in 4 (not all of them) other bombings.

    He'd previously been detained for his involvement in the red shirt activities.

    Finally, I'm sure it wasn't his intention to blow himself up. That's the only reason this has come to light. His incompetency has uncovered the truth.

    I don't think inspector Clouseau is required.
    Last edited by StrontiumDog; 07-10-2010 at 04:25 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Sawyer
    Yes, it's not a meth lab (with two days of more information that can be claimed - but no way that was clear at the time SD - the 'authorities' were way too quick to say it was TNT and even claim they knew the amount that caused the damage).
    Was strange, wasn't it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Sawyer
    This all seems a bit too conveniently timed as well. But like so many other things here the official story has now become the official story. And no one will question it.
    Agree. Like so many incidents before. Hard to believe it is all coincidence even if some events were just that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Sawyer
    s for some who claim that this means the red shirts are behind all the small grenade attacks in recent weeks at bus stops etc - bullshit - it doesn't prove anything.
    My point before. This incident is totally different from everything transpiring before. The police claims of grenade finds sound most strange. All the different kinds of explosives in one location are just too convenient evidence.
    One has to put a lot of confidence in the authorities to take it all on face value.

  19. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by StrontiumDog
    The bomb making material was the same as used in 4 (not all of them) other bombings.
    I don't think inspector Clouseau is required.
    Doesn't prove anything, just means he could have been the bomber in the other four.
    When he got bomb training from the Redshirts I expect there was more than one person in the class

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    Spin it however you want to spin it.

    For weeks Jatuporn and others have been claiming the government has been behind the bombings, saying that they were doing so to maintain the emergency decree, as they were draconian and were hanging onto power.

    All the while Jatuporn and others have been spouting this diatribe, some people involved in their campaign have been going around bombing Bangkok. I find it really difficult to believe that the people in the UDD leadership didn't know about this....

    One of their own....

    How could they be unaware?

    This exposes the game.

    Is it everything? I doubt it. But it exposes some of what has being going on.

    So, go ahead, spin, but the reality came a knocking in Nonthaburi. Denying it or reframing it just makes you look silly TS.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thetyim View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by StrontiumDog
    The bomb making material was the same as used in 4 (not all of them) other bombings.
    I don't think inspector Clouseau is required.
    Doesn't prove anything, just means he could have been the bomber in the other four.
    When he got bomb training from the Redshirts I expect there was more than one person in the class
    Certainly there will be others....

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    I heard of someone that lives down the road from the blast that it was a drug making laboratory that blew up.

    The Thai media are just looking to further someones cause....

  23. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by StrontiumDog View Post
    Spin it however you want to spin it.

    For weeks Jatuporn and others have been claiming the government has been behind the bombings, saying that they were doing so to maintain the emergency decree, as they were draconian and were hanging onto power.

    All the while Jatuporn and others have been spouting this diatribe, some people involved in their campaign have been going around bombing Bangkok. I find it really difficult to believe that the people in the UDD leadership didn't know about this....

    One of their own....

    How could they be unaware?

    This exposes the game.

    Is it everything? I doubt it. But it exposes some of what has being going on.

    So, go ahead, spin, but the reality came a knocking in Nonthaburi. Denying it or reframing it just makes you look silly TS.
    What are you talking about SD? We know you hate the reds, but this proves nothing. At best it only indicates some red supporters were making bombs - to use against whom? We don't know.

    Most of the attacks that hurt people involved grenades - not bombs. The Nonthaburi 'bomb making' apartment does not mean the grenade attacks at bus stops, etc, were carried out by Reds -- as much as you (and your buddies in power) want to try to infer. As far as you or I know, they were being prepared to retaliate against the army-backed regime.

    So go ahead, SD - spin - you're the one looking silly, as usual.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Takeovers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Sawyer
    Yes, it's not a meth lab (with two days of more information that can be claimed - but no way that was clear at the time SD - the 'authorities' were way too quick to say it was TNT and even claim they knew the amount that caused the damage).
    Was strange, wasn't it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Sawyer
    This all seems a bit too conveniently timed as well. But like so many other things here the official story has now become the official story. And no one will question it.
    Agree. Like so many incidents before. Hard to believe it is all coincidence even if some events were just that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Sawyer
    s for some who claim that this means the red shirts are behind all the small grenade attacks in recent weeks at bus stops etc - bullshit - it doesn't prove anything.
    My point before. This incident is totally different from everything transpiring before. The police claims of grenade finds sound most strange. All the different kinds of explosives in one location are just too convenient evidence.
    One has to put a lot of confidence in the authorities to take it all on face value.

    I really think you guys would be much better off to use the defense that this guy was fringe nutcase that the mainstream UDD/PTP leadership has nothing do with.

    You current arguments are very weak and are mostly based on ignorance, feigned or intentional.


    1. Explosive experts (and Thailand has several) can easily estimate the amount of explosives used based on the damage the shock wave did. There are actually spreadsheet models available the help them with the calculations. If the explosive material is not known, the amount of explosive material is defined as TNT equivalent, something that was probably lost in the translation.

    2. You also both continue to ignore the fact that there have been several bombs that have gone off or been discovered that are not grenades.

    Stick with the nutcase scenario; it makes you look a lot less like you are grasping at straws.

    TH

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thaihome
    I really think you guys would be much better off to use the defense that this guy was fringe nutcase that the mainstream UDD/PTP leadership has nothing do with.
    I mentioned that as a distinct possibility already in this thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thaihome
    tick with the nutcase scenario; it makes you look a lot less like you are grasping at straws.
    Unlike you however I see a distinct different possibility too because I am not blind on one eye.

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