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  1. #376
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mid
    simply flooding the forum with every article that contains the word Thai
    Not to mention when it's screens-full of patently opinion stuff that dates from September 2010 https://teakdoor.com/1678943-post332.html and even May 2010 https://teakdoor.com/1678857-post329.html
    Last edited by SteveCM; 11-02-2011 at 07:23 PM.

  2. #377
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    Quote Originally Posted by StrontiumDog
    Everything is opinion
    No, it is not. News and opinion are not the same thing. "Man is hit by truck" is news, "Serves him right because he was a member of PAD" is opinion. The difference is easy for most to see.

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveCM
    Quote Originally Posted by Mid
    simply flooding the forum with every article that contains the word Thai
    Not to mention when it's screens-full of patently opinion stuff that dates from September 2010
    Good to see that you're starting to understand why some of us are becoming angry about the destruction of a forum we've enjoyed debates and discussions on for years.


    Quote Originally Posted by SteveCM
    The quantity and range of what you (and others) post here is a big part of what brings me to TeakDoor.
    You should be thanking the people who actually wrote it.
    The Above Post May Contain Strong Language, Flashing Lights, or Violent Scenes.

  3. #378
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrB0b View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by StrontiumDog
    Everything is opinion
    No, it is not. News and opinion are not the same thing. "Man is hit by truck" is news, "Serves him right because he was a member of PAD" is opinion. The difference is easy for most to see.

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveCM
    Quote Originally Posted by Mid
    simply flooding the forum with every article that contains the word Thai
    Not to mention when it's screens-full of patently opinion stuff that dates from September 2010
    Good to see that you're starting to understand why some of us are becoming angry about the destruction of a forum we've enjoyed debates and discussions on for years.
    ^There's no destruction and claiming thus is just bullshit for your personal vendetta against me.

    The news constantly has 150 to 300 viewers, threads thousands of views. It is the most popular part of the forum. Hardly being destroyed....

    I'd also like to remind you that it isn't your forum. It is for everyone.

    As I've said before, I'd welcome debate and discussion from you DrB, but you can't resist the insults and snide insinuations. You are incapable of debate and discussion, not I. A fine example above. Totally dishonest. So, when you are able to behave in an adult and responsible manner, do let me know old chap.

    Quote Originally Posted by DrB0b View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SteveCM
    The quantity and range of what you (and others) post here is a big part of what brings me to TeakDoor.
    You should be thanking the people who actually wrote it.
    It is amazing....I wonder how information gets here? Oh yes, it needs to be found and posted....

    Just how do you think that happens? Magic? Act of God? (btw, did you thank the people of the news items you used to post here?)

    Mid and myself spend a lot of time bringing stuff here for others to read.

    Btw, are you going to label mid a thief as well? He does the exact same thing as me.
    "Slavery is the daughter of darkness; an ignorant people is the blind instrument of its own destruction; ambition and intrigue take advantage of the credulity and inexperience of men who have no political, economic or civil knowledge. They mistake pure illusion for reality, license for freedom, treason for patriotism, vengeance for justice."-Simón Bolívar

  4. #379
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    Quote Originally Posted by StrontiumDog
    It is amazing....I wonder how information gets here? Oh yes, it needs to be found and posted
    You think that's an achievement. You think nobody is capable of reading news elsewhere?

    Quote Originally Posted by StrontiumDog
    Btw, are you going to label mid a thief as well? He does the exact same thing as me.
    He does not. I just went to a thread I would have like to post. What did I see? 11 c&p's in a row from you. I went to the previous page, 7 c&p's in a row from you. You post and post and post and post nothing but other people's writing. Mid does not do that, he is selective and to the point in what he posts.

    You are a thief, nothing more. All you contribute to this forum is stolen goods.

    Quote Originally Posted by StrontiumDog
    your personal vendetta against me
    Dream on, true that I think you are a liar, a thief, and a fantasist. The evidence of that is in how you and your "history" have changed since you joined. To be agood liar you need to keep your story consistent. You haven't. Many here are memory challenged, some are not. Just because I think you're a liar, a thief, and a fantasist doesn't mean I'm out to get you. For God's sake man, if I was out to get you then a few emails to the places you steal from would sort that. I'm just annoyed by your endless spamming of the forum with articles you've stolen from others. It turns the forum into something people look at rather than something people take part in.
    Last edited by DrB0b; 11-02-2011 at 09:00 PM.

  5. #380
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrB0b View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by StrontiumDog
    It is amazing....I wonder how information gets here? Oh yes, it needs to be found and posted
    You think that's an achievement. You think nobody is capable of reading news elsewhere?
    This is a forum, it has a news section, it is popular. There's a reason for all of those things.

    Are you able to figure it out?

    Do you think DD created a news section so people would read the news elsewhere? What planet are you on?

    Quote Originally Posted by DrB0b View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by StrontiumDog
    Btw, are you going to label mid a thief as well? He does the exact same thing as me.
    He does not. I just went to a thread I would have like to post. What did I see? 11 c&p's in a row from you. I went to the previous page, 7 c&p's in a row from you. You post and post and post and post. Mid does not do that.

    You are a thief, nothing more. All you contribute to this forum is stolen goods.
    This may be shocking news to you...so sit down before reading the next sentence.

    But sometimes lots of things happen. That means lots of news. That means lots of posts. Both mid's and my posts are usually (but not always) sequential. We both try to be as comprehensive as possible.

    Yeah, I know, amazing isn't it.

    Oh and mid does do the exact same thing as me. If anything I learned from him. I've tried to maintain the high standards he put in place here. There are countless examples of threads where he has posted the relevant news and there's a string of news items. It happens. What would you suggest, that we wait for someone to make a comment before we post the next item in a thread?

    And are you also saying you were put off posting in a thread because there was a series of copy and pastes...? Now that would be really bizarre.

    So, more dishonesty from you. I presume it is dishonesty and you are aware of what you are typing. I only say this as I am assuming you are trolling (there are other interpretations).

    Still waiting for the adult to turn up....

  6. #381
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    Quote Originally Posted by StrontiumDog
    Still waiting for the adult to turn up....
    Why? Is your nappy full?

  7. #382
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrB0b View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by StrontiumDog
    your personal vendetta against me
    Dream on, true that I think you are a liar, a thief, and a fantasist. The evidence of that is in how you and your "history" have changed since you joined. To be agood liar you need to keep your story consistent. You haven't. Many here are memory challenged, some are not. Just because I think you're a liar, a thief, and a fantasist doesn't mean I'm out to get you. For God's sake man, if I was out to get you then a few emails to the places you steal from would sort that. I'm just annoyed by your endless spamming of the forum with articles you've stolen from others. It turns the forum into something people look at rather than something people take part in.
    Oh opinion without evidence/reference....something you have accused me of. Are you going to chastise yourself now DrB?

    My history has changed? How so? I have avoided posting too much personal information on this forum precisely because I've seen what happens when someone does. There appear to be a few nutters in Thailand who seek to go after people because they are mentally unsound.

    I hope you are not going to become one of them.

    As regards the rest, well, sending emails to who? The Nation? Bangkok Post? Bloggers? They know who I am, I DM and Tweet with most of them regularly on Twitter (you may recall a couple of my tweets got posted and printed in The Nation recently by Tulsathit, with my StrontiumDog nick...). If they have any problems with me, then I'm sure they would let me know. I'd be happy to stop posting news items/blogs if they requested it (I'm sure someone else would do it instead though). So, what was your point?

  8. #383
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrB0b View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by StrontiumDog
    Still waiting for the adult to turn up....
    Why? Is your nappy full?
    As I said, you are incapable of debate or discussion without resorting to insults. Thank you (once again) for proving my point.

  9. #384
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrB0b View Post

    <snip>

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveCM
    The quantity and range of what you (and others) post here is a big part of what brings me to TeakDoor.
    You should be thanking the people who actually wrote it.
    I wasn't actually thanking anyone - but I was acknowledging the resource provided. I make a point of always providing a link to the original source when quoting or reproducing an article anywhere. Comparable to a footnote citation in an academic publication if you like.

    About two years ago, when ThaiVisa were enthusiastically restricting quotations from Bangkok Post to just the first three sentences plus a link to the article, I wrote to the Post to ask if this was actually at their request (as TV Admin were maintaining). Here's the reply I received:

    "As long as the publisher, Bangkok Post, the writer's name (if it appears) and a link back to the story is included, the whole story can be reproduced.

    This is no different from any major publisher. Just good journalistic and business practice to give credit, where it is due."

    Yes, I know they changed their stance much later - but I still regard the view expressed in that reply as covering good practice.

    Edit to add: There are a few online publications that have implemented something that prevents direct copying of any of the text. Given that this copy protection is thus clearly available, I view its absence (taken with the above view from the Bangkok Post) as at least implicit approval. That said, I will also take note of and abide by explicit "reproduction permission required"-type notices when they appear with the article.
    Last edited by SteveCM; 11-02-2011 at 09:45 PM.

  10. #385
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveCM
    Comparable to a footnote citation in an academic publication if you like
    It's not really comparable. What's happening here is more like taking an entire essay, or dissertation, or whatever, and posting it. Then taking another one, and another one, ad infinitum. We are not tallking about citations here.

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveCM
    Yes, I know they changed their stance
    They did, yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveCM
    but I still regard the view expressed in that reply as covering good practice
    Why? Considering their stance has been changed? Surely the appropriate view is that of the owner? The current, public, attitude, of the Bangkok Post, is this

    Post Publishing does not permit web publishers, webmasters, website owners and any person to republish content from the Bangkok Post in any other manner from that described above (RSS feed) without written permission.

    http://www.bangkokpost.com/republishingpolicy/
    Besides, the rights and wrongs of posting full articles are only one aspect of what is being questioned here. What is the role of a forum? Is it a passive experience, a source of news to read, or is it supposed to be a participative experience - in which people engage with each other? The news forum here has become, in the main, a read-only experience, not the role of a forum.

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveCM
    there are a few online publications that have implemented something that prevents direct copying of any of the text. Given that this copy protection is thus clearly available, I view its absence (taken with the above view from the Bangkok Post) as at least implicit approval. That said, I will also take note of and abide by explicit "reproduction permission required"-type notices when they appear with the article.
    You are free, of course, to view it any way you like. That does not mean that your view reflects the legal reality. Copyright is covered by both national and international law and without EXPLICIT permission to the contrary all published works (that includes internet works) are subject to that law.
    Last edited by DrB0b; 11-02-2011 at 10:19 PM.

  11. #386
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrB0b View Post

    Anyway, the rights and wrongs of posting full articles are not particularly what is being questioned here. What is being questioned is what is the role of a forum. Is it a passive experience, a source of news to read, or is it supposed to be a participative experience - in which people engage with each other? The news forum here has become, in the main, a read-only experience, not the role of a forum.
    You mean passive like this thread...

    https://teakdoor.com/thailand-and-asi...an-horror.html

    From Just last December...about 6 weeks ago.

    With 26,664 views and 1,344 replies....

    Yeah, spot on again DrB.

  12. #387
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    Quote Originally Posted by StrontiumDog View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DrB0b View Post

    Anyway, the rights and wrongs of posting full articles are not particularly what is being questioned here. What is being questioned is what is the role of a forum. Is it a passive experience, a source of news to read, or is it supposed to be a participative experience - in which people engage with each other? The news forum here has become, in the main, a read-only experience, not the role of a forum.
    You mean passive like this thread...

    https://teakdoor.com/thailand-and-asi...an-horror.html

    From Just last December...about 6 weeks ago.

    With 26,664 views and 1,344 replies....

    Yeah, spot on again DrB.
    Although you were not one of the main contributors to that thread, other than in posting other people's stolen writings, this thread would be a better and more typical example

    https://teakdoor.com/world-news/86578...-protests.html (Clashes erupt amid Cairo protests)

    Where out of about 100 posts about 50 were cut 'n' pastes from you. This may come as a shock to you but long before you came here TD had a vibrant news and issues section. In fact, in the one and a half years or so you've been posting here the news section has degenerated drastically. If the topic interests people then they will post on it. It does not need you to spam it with newspaper articles to arouse people's interest. People will post, and have posted, if they find the topic interesting. Your spamming activities have made many people less interested in posting as you constantly break up the flow of discussion with your posting. The popularity or otherwise, and the interest, or otherwise, of threads has little to do with you, it has to do with those who take the trouble to think about the issues and post their own thoughts rather than taking the lazy man's way out and posting, endlessly, what others have written.

  13. #388
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    I'll be the first to admit that I'm not Mr Clean here - and I can't argue with your exact interpretation of copyright legalities - neither is it the only law I've ever broken. Having written commercially myself, I'm also aware of at least some of the issues from that side of the intellectual properties fence. For now, I just say that it's up to the Post (or other) owners to act if they're so minded. Meanwhile, I'll continue trying to behave fairly and properly as I see it.

    I do agree that the life of a forum should be in its active exchange of participants' views, discussion etc - and not just a passive soaking up of aggregated news. I'm also disappointed when I see someone just re-cycling someone else's pre-packaged view and saying (in effect) just "Look at this - it says what I think". Even worse IMO is saying (in effect) "watch this promotional video cranked out by some agenda-driven zealot - that's why I think what I do..... oh, and it proves that I'm right and you're wrong" blah blah blah.....

    I think Mid got it right in saying that there has to be some judgment and balance (in terms of content/volume) applied to what is reproduced.

  14. #389
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    I should add this.....

    Once ThaiVisa finally got its way and excluded Bangkok Post quoting completely (why is another story ), I tried for a while to cite "evidence" - for want of a better word - from reports which the Post published and which never (surprise, surprise) made into TV's bedmate The Nation.

    It proved to be such a laborious process to paraphrase yet remain faithful to the original that I pretty soon gave it up. Based at least on that, I question whether it's really viable for most people to participate effectively if they can't quote directly and as fully as necessary to get the point across.

    Yes, that's different from just operating a news aggregating service - but I do think that both elements (the articles and the discussion) are necessary. I also accept that too many articles plastered into the thread can interrupt the flow of the discussion - but then those articles also very often provide trigger points for further comment and discussion of the subject.

    Again, it seems we come back to the need for a balance. It does seem that sometimes some articles/reports add little or nothing to a similar article/report already posted.
    Last edited by SteveCM; 11-02-2011 at 11:33 PM.

  15. #390
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveCM
    it seems we come back to the need for a balance
    I agree with that. I'm being so extreme because the balance has become so skewed. Really I'd like to go back to the way we were about two years ago. No shortage of copying from media sources but the vast majority of posts being discussion rather than just repetition of the news. The current imbalance is relatively new.

  16. #391
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrB0b View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by StrontiumDog View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DrB0b View Post

    Anyway, the rights and wrongs of posting full articles are not particularly what is being questioned here. What is being questioned is what is the role of a forum. Is it a passive experience, a source of news to read, or is it supposed to be a participative experience - in which people engage with each other? The news forum here has become, in the main, a read-only experience, not the role of a forum.
    You mean passive like this thread...

    https://teakdoor.com/thailand-and-asi...an-horror.html

    From Just last December...about 6 weeks ago.

    With 26,664 views and 1,344 replies....

    Yeah, spot on again DrB.
    Although you were not one of the main contributors to that thread, other than in posting other people's stolen writings, this thread would be a better and more typical example

    https://teakdoor.com/world-news/86578...-protests.html (Clashes erupt amid Cairo protests)

    Where out of about 100 posts about 50 were cut 'n' pastes from you. This may come as a shock to you but long before you came here TD had a vibrant news and issues section. In fact, in the one and a half years or so you've been posting here the news section has degenerated drastically. If the topic interests people then they will post on it. It does not need you to spam it with newspaper articles to arouse people's interest. People will post, and have posted, if they find the topic interesting. Your spamming activities have made many people less interested in posting as you constantly break up the flow of discussion with your posting. The popularity or otherwise, and the interest, or otherwise, of threads has little to do with you, it has to do with those who take the trouble to think about the issues and post their own thoughts rather than taking the lazy man's way out and posting, endlessly, what others have written.
    Doesn't the popularity (or otherwise) of this thread indicate more the demographics and interests of the members here?

    It is a major issue internationally. That's why I've kept it updated. If people here aren't interested in what is a major historical event, then that surely is their choice.

    I made the effort, and you are criticising me for doing so. Nice.

    Not every thread works, it happens to mid also (but again you don't direct your vitriol at him, strange that), for example many of his Asian news threads don't get a lot of replies, even though I find them interesting. So should he stop posting news about Burma? Or other countries in Asia? Just following your 'logic'...Is it logic, right? Not some offloading of a personal grievance...

    Anyway, just for fun I checked how many posts I had made in the crash death thread I cited above.

    https://teakdoor.com/thailand-and-asi...an-horror.html

    I posted approximately 95 comments of my own.

    I posted approximately 74 news items, which included new posts from online new sources, photos I upped or linked to and Tweets.

    Total contribution to that one thread, 169 posts out of 1,344

    So actually I was one of the main contributors to that thread, possibly the largest contributor to that thread (I only counted my posts).

    So, guess what, you are wrong. Again.

  17. #392
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    Quote Originally Posted by StrontiumDog
    So actually I was one of the main contributors to that thread, possibly the largest contributor to that thread (I only counted my posts).
    Right. Quantity. That's what matters

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    So I post ONE item from the FT in World News - Opinion piece on the decline of capitalism - and it is frogmarched within an hour or so over to Issues. I then object - suggesting there should be an Op-Ed section to avoid this sort of thing - only to have that post moved to yet a new Issues thread - and here we have three pages + of people arguing the same f'ing thing.

    Boo, hoo, hoo... poor fucking me.
    My mind is not for rent to any God or Government, There's no hope for your discontent - the changes are permanent!

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    Political assassinations, extra-judicial killings and murders | Time Up Thailand

    Political assassinations, extra-judicial killings and murders

    Posted on February 15, 2011 by Time Up Thailand

    Action for People’s Democracy in Thailand



    Thousands of Thai people have sacrificed their lives in the pursuit of representational parliamentary democracy, in the name of development, against the unification of the country at the time of King Rama V, in the name of drugs war, and as part of conflicts in southern Thailand. It has been estimated that up to 30 000 people have died during these decades of oppression. This estimate is beginning to sound reasonable, though there is no real statistical evidence to back the claim. The amazing tragedy is nobody knows; no records were kept; the research has never been done. The question is when will such research start and why has it not already been started.

    This appendix attempts to make a start on this important recognition of the lives sacrificed in the pursuit of human rights, justice and democracy in Thailand. It makes for very grim reading, and we cried many times as we compiled the information. But we owe it to these people to honour them, and to finally give them the respect and recognition they deserve.

    In the 1901-02 crackdown of the uprising against taxation and centralisation under Rama V, thousands of people were killed, plus thousands wounded and their leaders were beheaded.

    Since the 1947 military coup we have public information of over three hundred citizen-activists who have given their lives for human rights and people’s democracy.

    Assassinations

    During the 1950s:
    • 5 leading socialist democracy MPs
    • A senior police chief and a military leader from Pridi camps
    • A well-known writer, poet, and translator, Jit Phumisak
    1974 – 1976
    • 3,000 villagers in many districts in Pattalung Province brutally killed in the war against communist activities.
    • Many farmer leaders were killed in these three years of uprising of students and working people.
    Conflict in Southern Thailand

    28 April 2003: in a gun battle involving police and soldiers that fired into the Kue se Mosque in Pattani resulting in 107 civilians shot dead as well as 5 officers.

    25 October 2003: when several hundred people protested at the Tak Bai Police Station in Narathiwat Province, demanding the release of 6 people that had been arrested. Police used violence to crackdown on the protest resulting in 84 protesters being killed – 6 people died from bullets and 78 people died from suffocation during transportation from the police station to the army camps.

    2 July 2010: The Cross Cultural Foundation – founded in early 2002 to work on human rights violations in the South of Thailand – released the figure that since 2004 there were 4,000 people killed in the conflict in the Southern Region of Thailand.

    War on drugs

    The Thai Royal Police Bureau has reported that 2,596 people were killed during three months of a war on drugs in 2003. 1,164 were killed because they were involved in the drug trade, but 1,432 were innocent.

    17 February 1955 Execution of three men for involving in the killing King Ananda’s plot.

    Chaliew Pathumros
    Chit Singhaseni
    But Pathamasarin
    Three honest and innocent men were executed for killing King Ananda. Several evidences show that they are not guilty.

    communists under the Sarit Thanarat Government (1960-1967)
    • Two Members of Parliament
    • A Labour activist
    • A leading member of the Communist Party of Thailand
    —————

    Victims from crackdowns

    1973 14-15 October: 77 people died, mostly from gun fire; mostly students, young workers and others from the working classes. 847 were wounded.
    1976 6 October: 41 students died and several hundred were injured, 3,154 students were arrested, thousands of others fled to the forest or went into hiding
    1952 17-19 May: 45 people were killed, including the president of the Labour Congress of Thailand.
    2009 April: 2 ‘Red Shirt’ demonstrators were beaten then had their hands tied before being pushed into the Chaopraya River. Their bodies were found two days after the crackdown.
    2010 April-May: 91 people were killed during the crackdown, 2,000 were wounded, and 470 leaders and activist ‘Red Shirt’ members were arrested.
    May-December: 5 additional ‘Red Shirt’ leaders were brutally assassinated, mostly by M16 rifles, four cases involved groups of people following them in cars and firing hundreds of bullets at them; the fifth leader was hit by a pick-up van.


    From 1992–2005, 29 activists were killed

    Since 1992, there have been 29 leading activists killed. They are community leaders and activists struggling to protect natural resources and fighting for human rights including Somchai Nilapaichit, a lawyer fighting for justice in the South, Charoen Wat-aksorn a leader of the Bonok and Ban Krud communities’ struggle against coal power plant of the Anan Panyarachun’s business group.

    —————-

    List of names of political assassinations since the 1947 military coup that kicked out the popularly elected Pridi Bhanomyong Government

    1949
    1. Mr. Tong-in Puriphat, MP for Ubon Ratchatani, Labour Party, 6 ministerial terms
    2. Mr. Thawil Udol, MP from Roi-et Province, Minister in Tawee Bunyaket Government
    3. Mr. Chamrlong Daoruang, former MP from Mahasarakam
    4. Dr. Tongplaew Chonphum, MP from Nakorn Nayok, general secretary of the Alliance for Constitution Party
    5. Major Phon Intornrathat, shot dead in the forehead at Dusit District
    6. Police Colonel Banjongsak Sheeppensuk, the director of the Police Intelligence Department
    1952
    1. Mr. Tieng Sirikhan, strangulated and burned on 13 December 1952, with 4 of his friends and supporters
    1959
    1. Mr. Supphachai Srisati, A labour leader, given the death sentence according to Article 17 of General Sarit Thanarat Dictates on 30 June 1959
    1961 31 May
    1. Mr. Krong Chandawong, MP from Sakon Nakhon
    2. Mr. Tongphan Suthimas, a teacher and friend of Krong
    Krong and Tongphan were arrested together with 148 comrades from Phuphan on the charge of committing ‘Communist Acts’. Krong and Tongphan were given the death sentence and executed. The rest were imprisoned for five years until 1964. Krong’s wife and son were also arrested while his other two children fled the country.

    24 April 1962

    11. Ruam Wongphan, a leading member of the Communist Party of Thailand was given the death sentence

    5 May 1966

    12. Jit Phumisak, a famous writer, thinker and translator was shot dead at the entrance to Phupan Mountain.

    The names of those killed during the 14-15 October 1973 Uprising

    77 dead and 857 injured

    This information has been the most carefully recorded. Those killed were given royal cremations, the only group of civilians shot down by military to receive royal cremations.
    Information from ÇŐĂŞš 14 ľŘĹŇ
    1. Mr. Kathakorn Cheepthamrong, 18, a 4th year student of Sent John Secondary School. He was shot by police.
    2. Mr. Kong Ngiap-taku, 28. He was shot in the neck while he was standing at the window of the shop he was working for, observing the crackdown.
    3. Mr. Kong-Hai Sae-Jung, 27, a driver. He was shot by an M16 in his stomach and died on 16 October.
    4. Mr. Jira Boonmak, 29, a post-graduate student and officer of the Electrical Generating Authority of Thailand. He carried and waved a Thai flag while walking towards the military trying to tell the soldiers not to shoot at the students. The soldiers shot him in the head and he died instantly.
    5. Mr. Jamras Prasertrit, 47, a mechanical assistant at the State Railway Authority of Thailand. He was shot while trying to rescue a student who carried the national flag.
    6. Mr. Jia-seng Saechou, 17, a mechanic. He was shot in front of the Public Relations Office.
    7. Mr. Chantornkrup Hongtong, 16, a 1st year student of the Bangbon Technical School. He was shot in the back.
    8. Mr. Chong Jaypat, 50, a mechanic. He was shot while trying to bring food to the students in the protest zone. The bullet went through his forehead right through to the back of his head.
    9. Mr. Chusak Chaiyutanan, 15, a 2nd year student in the Singhrat Pittayakom Secondary School. He was shot in front of the Poh Chang Art School.
    10. Mr. Chaisilp Ladsila, 25, a technician at a radio broadcast station and a 1st year law student at Ramkhamhaeng University. He was shot in the chest while he was out the front of the National Lottery Office.
    11. Mr. Chiwin Chaitosa, 18, a 2nd year student of the Phra Nakorn Nuea Mechanical School.
    12. Mr. Chaiyot Jantornchot, 16. He was a boat mechanic and was shot while driving his boat towards the tanks.
    13. Ms. Chusri Phakpong, 42, a paper bag maker. She went to the site of the massacre to search for her son. While she was running away from bullets being fired from a helicopter, she fell very hard and died on the way to hospital.
    14. Mr. Danai Kornkaew, 24, a worker of Foremost Ice-cream. He was shot from the helicopter while running away from teargas.
    15. Mr. Tea Ti Sae-tang, 24, a parquet floor worker. He was shot in the left armpit.
    16. Mr. Thanom Pan-eim, 19, a cook in a hotel. He was shot at the Panfah Bridge.
    17. Mr. Tong Jantornrat, 40, a driver. He was shot in front of the Poh Chang Art School.
    18. Mr. Tada Sirikhan, 22, a 4th year mechanics student at the South East Asia University. He was shot on 18 Oct in a restaurant, while he was talking about the success of the student uprising and was criticising the tyrannies. Four men in the restaurant were not pleased and shot him.
    19. Mr. Niyom Uppaphan, 20, in the student guard group at Bangson Mechanical School, was shot in the head. He died in the hospital.
    20. Mr. Nop Promcharoen, 40, a worker at the port. He was shot in the head in front of the Public Relations Office.
    21. Mr. Nitikorn Giratipakorn, 16, a 2nd year student at Amnual Silp Art School. He was hit with tear gas, beaten up in front of Jitlada Palace, and was surrounded by the military at Thammasart University. The incident so traumatised him that he died from a heart attack on 21 Nov.
    22. Mr. Banphot Chimwari, 25, a 2nd year student at the Somdej Chaopraya Teachers College. When he was participating in the demonstration, he fell and hit the pavement and was trampled on by other demonstrators. He died the next day from broken blood vessels in the brain.
    23. Mr. Banthom Phutong, 18, a hotel worker. He was shot at the Democracy Monument.
    24. Mr. Prasert Wirojthanachai, 19, a 4th year student of Panjawittaya Art School. He was shot with an M16 at the Panfah Bridge while trying to help his brother who was shot.
    25. Mr. Prasarn Wirojthanachai, 17, a language student, was shot dead from multiple bullets fired from an M16.
    26. Mr. Somkuan Sae-Ngou, 18, a mechanic who was friends with Prasarn and Prasert. He was shot while trying to rescue his friends.
    27. Mr. Prasert Dejmee, 19, in the process of entering the university. He was shot.
    28. Mr. Prayong Daungploy, 21, a bus driver, was shot in the head in front of the Samutprakarn Police Station.
    29. Mr. Pranot Sae-lim, 28, sold BBQ ducks to restaurants. He was shot.
    30. Mr. Prayuth Jaemsuntorn, 17, a 4th year student at Padungsit Pittaya Secondary School. He was shot in the back while bringing drinking water to his friends at the Panfah Bridge.
    31. Mr. Prawat Passarakul, 18, a commerce student, was shot in the heart.
    32. Mr. Prasopchai Somsuan, 15, a 2nd year student at the Khema Pirataram Secondary School. He was on the fire fighting truck that the protestors apprehended and used to take protestors to the Phumiphol Hospital to donate blood. He was shot in the stomach when the truck was driving past the Forestry Department.
    33. Mr. Phunsuk Pong-ngam, 20, a 2nd year student at a mechanical college. He was shot at Panfah Bridge in the chest puncturing his lung.
    34. Mr. Phansiri Kerdsuk, 28, a soldier who was waiting to be promoted, and a graduate from Faculty of Law at Thammasart University. He was shot in the armpit.
    35. Mr. Montian Pongsri, 20, a 1st year student of Nonthaburi Mechanical College, was shot at the Prapinklao Bridge.
    36. Mr. Montri Lohsuwan, a young monk, 15, from Bangprek Nuea Temple, was shot in the head from a helicopter over Bowornniwet Temple.
    37. Mr. Mongkol Pinsangchan, 15, a 2nd year student at Amnual Silp Art School. He was shot in front of the Poh Chang Art School.
    38. Mr. Rat Ngonjantuek, 40, a truck driver. He was shot in the head and the chest.
    39. Mr. Riam Kongkanya, 27, a Tuk Tuk driver. He was shot while taking wounded students to hospital through the firing zone. He was hiding among the students. When the police announced that those who were not part of the demonstration could safely come out, he did so and was shot.
    40. Mr. Lert Kongluk, 46, a civil servant who died in the building that was burnt down on 14, Oct.
    41. Mr. Wijin Boonsongsri, 19, a mechanic. He was shot in the right scapula.
    42. Mr. Wichai Supakramma, 18, a textile factory worker. He was shot at the Panfah Bridge.
    43. Mr. Wichien Prompanich, 25, a 6th year medical student at Chulalongkorn University. He was so traumatised from providing treatment to wounded patients in the deadly zone at the Public Relation Office that he ended up hanging himself and died on 17 February 1974.
    44. Mr. Silboon Rojjanasangsuwan, 18, a fresh food seller. He was shot in the right chest when he was on the rooftop of the Thai Airways Building.
    45. Mr. Somkuan Sae-Ngou, a mechanic and a public bus driver. He was shot in the head from behind while trying to help his friends, Prasert and Prasarn Wirojtanachai, who were also shot dead.
    46. Mr. Somchai Kerdmanee, 20, Student from Nonthaburi Mechenic School. He was shot in front of the Chalermthai Cinema.
    47. Mr. Surapong Boonrodkham, 16, a worker in a clothing shop. He was shot in front of the Panfah Police Office, with two bullets in his chest and one in the head.
    48. Mr. Somkiet Phetpeng, 19, a worker in a cooking gas shop, was shot in front of the Sirirat Hospital.
    49. Mr. Surin Sriviravanichkul, 20, he worked for a cooking gas shop and was shot by an M16 in the Banglamphu area.
    50. Mr. Suphap Sae-wong, 16, a garment worker, was shot from a helicopter in front of the Public Relations Office, the bullet went right through his shoulder to the lung thing.
    51. Mr. Sawee Visetsuwan, 18, a 2nd year student at a vocational school. He died from food poisoning after eating the food that had been brought to the demonstrators on 13-14 October.
    52. Mr. Sukit Tongprasut, 18, a 1st year student of Sesavej Wittaya Secondary School. While he was trying to mobilise support for the demonstrators at the Thonburi area, the car he was in crashed with a truck and he died.
    53. Mr. Supojjana Jittaladakorn, 16, a 1st year student of Dusit Commercial School. He was shot in the head and many parts of his body from a helicopter above Thammasart University.
    54. Mr. Surapong Puangtong, 25, a worker in a private company, He was shot in front of the Public Relations Office from a machine gun firing from a tank. He died on 27 October.
    55. Mr. Saroj Warasatien, 48, the head of the delivery section of the Pharmaceutical Office. He was attacked after observing the situation of the burning of the Panfah Police Station.
    56. Mr. Supoj Liansakulyoudee, 19, a furniture maker. While trying to help another man who was shot, we was also shot in the eye and fell into the water.
    57. Mr. Somdej Wirunphol, 18, a 1st year Economic Faculty student at Chulalongkorn University. He was shot with many bullets piercing his chest and two legs by the police and soldiers from the Panfah Police Station.
    58. Mr. Sai Ritthivanich, 44, a carpenter. He was shot from behind while passing through the Public Relations Office.
    59. Mr. Sawaeng Phanbua, 16, a worker. He was shot in the forehead in front of the Revenue Department Office.
    60. Mr. Sompong Sae-tiaw, 14, a 1st year student of Mongkut Secondary School. He was shot in Banglamphu while observing the crackdown.
    61. Mr. Sompong Ployruangsri, 20, a 2nd year student at the Phra Jomklao Technology Institute. He was shot in the chest while fighting to take the gun from a soldier near the Panfah Bridge.
    62. Ms. Noopin Promjan, 17, a 1st year student at Nakorn Srithammarat Teachers College. She died in a car crash while on her way to the demonstration in Nakorn Sri Thammarat Province on 15 Oct.
    63. Mr. Abhisit Pornsirilertkit, 18, a salesman in a radio equipment shop. He was shot in the head while he was searching for his friend at the Panfah area.
    64. Mr. Annop Dittasuwan, 17, a mobile cinema worker. He was shot by a machine gun from a tank at the Royal Ground.
    65. Mr. Anek Patikarnsuntorn, 41, a food store owner. He was shot while trying to take control of the Panfah Police Station.
    66. Mr. Eimchoung Sae-Goi, 22, a worker, was shot on 14 October in front of the Royal Hotel. He died at the Sirirat Hospital.
    67. Unidentified woman. She was shot in the back and fell in the water near the Pinklao Bridge.
    68. Unidentified man. He was shot in front of the Panfah Police Office.
    69. Unidentified person. No information available
    70. Unidentified person. No information available
    71. Unidentified person. No information available
    72. Unidentified person. No information available
    73. Unidentified person. No information available
    74. Unidentified person. No information available
    75. Unidentified person. No information available
    76. Unidentified person. No information available
    77. Unidentified person. No information available
    Crackdown rural farmer leaders in 1974-1976

    After the October 1973 massacre, the labour movement became mobilised and took strike action. In 1974 over 700 strikes were taken, resulting in the introduction of the Labour Relations Act of 1975. The farmers’ movement also became organised at this time into provincial representative structures. They came to Bangkok to protest a number of times during 1974-1976. The crackdown against workers’ leaders and farmers’ leaders started in 1974.

    Dr. Suthachai Yimprasert and unknown author (s) has compiled a record of farmers’ leaders who were killed during 1974-1976, as listed below.
    1. 14 January 1994, Nasai Village in Nongkhai Province was burned down by the authorites claiming that it was a communists’ village. 1,500 villagers lived in this village. Three villagers were brutally killed from the action.
    2. 29 November 1975, a car of five Muslim adults and a boy was heading to their home in Bajoh District in Narathivat Province, and was stopped on the road between the Bajoh District and Saiburi District. A few days later the five bodies of the adults were found floating in the river.
    3. 25 January 1976, Mr. Sanong Bancha, a workers’ leader in the Temco Mining Company in Pang-nga Province was shot dead while he filled his motorcycle with gasoline.
    4. 2 January 1976, Mr. Nisit Jjrasophon, a member of the Student Federation of Thailand was killed while leading a team of journalists to investigate the case of 3,000 villagers in many districts in Patthalung Province who had been brutally killed, kicked out from the mountains or burnt to death in 1973.
    5. February Mr. Boonma Somprasit, a farmers’ leader from Angtong Province was shot.
    6. 1 April, Mr. Nisit Jirasophon, a student activist from Chiangmai University was pushed out of a train at Thapsakae District Prachuab Kirikhan Province, on his way to investigate the uprising of the people in Nakhon Srithammarat Province.
    7. 5 April, Mr. Hieng Linmak, a farmers’ leader from Surin Province was shot.
    8. Mr. Eiy Tongto, a farmers committee member in Lamphun Province was shot.
    9. 18 April, Mr, Prasert Chomam-marit, the president of the Farmers’ Federation in Hang Dong district, Chiang Mai Province was shot.
    10. 21 April, Mr. Ngon Laowong, a farmers’ leader from Ban Nongbuaban, Udon Thani, was assasinated
    11. April, Mr. Charoen Dangnok, a committee member of the Nakorn Ratchasima Farmers Federation was shot
    12. Mr. Thawin (unknown surname), a farmers’ leader from Pichit Province was shot.
    13. 5 May, Mr. Mongkol Suknoon, a leader of the Nakhon Sawan farmers was shot.
    14. 20 May, Mr. Kliang Mai-eim, vice president of the Farmers Federation, from Hang Chat District, Lampang Province
    15. 22 June, Mr. Put Ponglangka, a leader of the Chiang Rai farmers was shot
    16. 1 July, Mr. Mana Intasuriya, a student from Ratchasima College in Nakhon Ratchasima Province was shot while putting up posters to invite people in Nakhon Ratchasima to participate in a demonstration against the US Army base on 4 July.
    17. 3 July, Mr. Ja Chakkrawan, vice president of the Bandong Farmers Federation, Mae Rim, ChiangMai, was killed.
    18. 8 July, Mr. Prasat Sirimoung, A farmers’ representative from Surin Province was shot.
    19. 14 July, Mr. Boonpa Panyoyai, the committee of the Farmers Federation of Thailand was shot in Lamphun Province
    20. 18 July, Mr. Boonta Yota, was shot dead in Lamphun Province
    21. 22 July, Mr. Kliang Mai-aim, vice president of the Thai Farmers Federation in Hang Chat District, Lampang was shot
    22. 26 July, Miss Samran Kamklan, a factory worker in Kratumban District, Nakhon Prathom Province was shot by the chief of the factory’s security guards.
    23. 31 July, Mr. Intha Sriboonruang, the vice president of the Farmers Federation of Thailand, and the president of the Northern Farmers Federation, Chiang Mai
    24. 4 August, Mr. Sawas Tathawan, the leader of Doi Saket farmers, Chiang Mai
    25. 7 August, Mr. Eiy Sitthi, Mr. Mee Suanplu, Mr. Ta Sitthi, Mr. Taah Kaewprasert, Mr. Ta Intakham, presidents and committee members of the Fang district, Chiang Mai provinces all disappered – no bodies were found.
    26. 11 August, Mr. Put Saidam, a farmer in Ma Bon, Fang District, Chiang Mai was shot but he survived. However, in his hospital bed, in front of the doctor, he was shot dead.
    27. 12 August, Mr. Chuan Niamwira, a committee member of the Farmers Federation of Thailand, in Utong District, Suphanbuir, was shot.
    28. 29 September, a bomb thrown at the protesters against the removal of the Pang-nga Governor. 15 people died and 17 injured.
    29. 12 Otober, Mr. Nual Kawilai, a farmers’ leader from Mae Lieng, died from a bomb during the crackdown in protest against mining in Serm-ngam District, Lampang Province.
    30. 13 October, the second crackdown to the protesters against the Mae Lieng Mining in Serm-ngam District, Lampang Province. 15 peopled killed from the crackdown.
    31. 19 October, Mr. Bunyarat Jaiyen, vice president of the Farmers Federation in Saraphi District, Chiang Mai provice was shot.
    32. 13 December, a bomb thrown into a crowd in Pattani caused the death of 12 people.
    6 October 1976 Crackdown

    There are 10 unidentified persons; the gender of four had not been identified. 30 bodies were identified – 26 men and 4 women were returned to their families for cremation ceremonies. 3,154 people, mostly students were arrested.
    1. Burnt, couldn’t identify the person’s gender
    2. Burnt, couldn’t identify the person’s gender
    3. Burnt, couldn’t identify the person’s gender
    4. Burnt, couldn’t identify the person’s gender
    5. Couldn’t identify the person’s name
    6. Couldn’t identify the person’s name
    7. Couldn’t identify the person’s name
    8. Couldn’t identify the person’s name
    9. Couldn’t identify the person’s name
    10. Couldn’t identify the person’s name
    11. Mr. Wanchat Srichansuk, hanged himself in a cell at Bangkhen Police Station
    12. Mr. Pongphan Praomaturos, died from a bomb blast
    13. Mr. Wichitchai Amornkul, died from shrapnel wounds
    14. Mr. Abdulroheng Sata, was shot
    15. Mr. Manoo Vitayaporn, was shot
    16. Mr. Surasit Supapa, was shot
    17. Mr. Samphan Charoensuk, was shot
    18. Mr. Suwit Tongpralard, was shot
    19. Mr. Boonnak Samaksaman, was shot
    20. Mr. Abhisit Thainiyom, was shot
    21. Mr. Anuwat Angkaew, died from a bomb blast
    22. Mr. Weeraphol Opaspilai, was shot
    23. Mr. Supoj Phankalasin, was shot
    24. Ms. Poranee Jullakarin, was shot
    25. Mr. Yuttana Burasiriraksa, was shot
    26. Mr. Phumisak Sirasuppalerkchai, was shot
    27. Ms. Watcharee Phetsun, was shot
    28. Mr. Danaisak Eimkong, was shot
    29. Mr. Paiboon Laohajiraphan, was shot
    30. Mr. Chaiyaporn Amornrojjanawong, was shot
    31. Mr. Ajachariya Srisawat, was shot
    32. Mr. Sanguanphan Sunsheng, drowned
    33. Ms. Wimonphan Roongtongbaisuree, was shot
    34. Mr. Somchai Piyasakulsak, was shot
    35. Mr. Wisut Pongpanich, was shot
    36. Mr. Suphol Boontapan, was shot
    37. Mr. Siripong Mantasatien, was shot
    38. Mr. Wasan Boonraksa, was shot
    39. Mr. Naowarat Sirirangsri, was shot
    40. Mr. Pricha Sae-tia, beaten and died from shrapnel wounds
    41. Mrs. Arunee Khambunkerd, was shot
    42. Mr. Jarupong Tongsin, couldn’t find his body
    These names listed above do not include the names of many people who have disappeared – their bodies couldn’t be found or were destroyed. Mr. Jarupong Tongsin is one notable example. He was a Thammasart University student who was dragged by a robe tied around his neck at the football ground in Thammasart University.

    The Bloody May crackdown of 1992 – at least 45 people killed.
    1. Tanong Phoarn, the president of the Labour Congress of Thailand, was kidnapped and his body has never been recovered.
    2. Kritsada Niammeesri, was hit and shot
    3. Kittikorn Kiewboriboon, was shot
    4. Kittipong Supingklad, was shot
    5. Kriangkrai Jarusarn, was shot
    6. Korbkul Sinthusingha, was shot
    7. Jakkraphan Amrat, was shot
    8. Jakkrawut Namta, was shot
    9. Chalermphol Sangaim, died from swelling to the brain
    10. Chairat Na Nakorn, was shot
    11. Sihong Sae-tia, was shot
    12. Narong Thongtong, was shot
    13. Tawee Muaydee, was hit on the head
    14. Taweesak Panathuek, was shot
    15. Nakorn Sonpanya, was shot
    16. Boonmee Saengsum, was shot
    17. Boonmee Wongsingto, was shot
    18. Boonkong Tanna, was shot
    19. Pratchaya Srisa-ard, was shot
    20. Prasong Thippimol, was shot
    21. Prida Eimsam-ang, was shot
    22. Piphat Suriyakul, was shot
    23. Phuwanat Wilasthorakul, was shot
    24. Pirom Ramkhao, was shot
    25. Mayunan Yidam, was shot
    26. Manas Nonthasiri, was shot
    27. Wira Jittichanon, was shot
    28. Wongduen Buachan, was shot
    29. Wirachai Asawapityanon, was shot
    30. Sarakorn Yaempranit, was shot
    31. Somchai Suthirat, was shot
    32. Samruam Trikhem, was shot
    33. Saroj Yamin, was shot
    34. Somphen Charoennet, was shot
    35. Suchat Papor, was shot
    36. Suraphan Chuchuay, was shot
    37. Saman Klinphu, was shot
    38. Sanya Pengsa, was shot
    39. Noo Kaewphamorn, was shot
    40. Apiwat Maskhao, was shot
    41. Ekpoj Jarukitpaisan, was shot
    42. Eian Newmegen, no information
    43. Unidentified person, no information
    44. Unidentified person, no information
    45. Couldn’t identify the person’s name
    The 19 September 2006 military coup led to the following deaths
    1. 31 October 2006, 60, Nuamtong Praiwan, a taxi driver, drove his taxi to hit a tank on 19 September to protest against the military coup, he hanged himself as a protest on the footbridge in front of the most popular newspaper office ‘the Thairath’
    2. 2 September 2008, 52, Narongsak Krobtaisong was beaten to death by a mob of the People’s Alliance for Democracy
    The Red Shirt demonstration in 2009
    1. Nattapong Pongdi, Udonthani Province, was beaten, had his hands tied together and was thrown in the Chaopraya River and drowned
    2. Chaiyaporn Kantang, Phare Province, was beaten, had his hands tied together and was thrown in the Chaopraya River and drowned
    The April-May 2010 crackdown under the ‘license to kill’

    The crackdown on 10 April around the Democracy Monument
    1. Mr.Hiroyuki Muramoto, 43, A Japanese Reuters reporter. He was shot in the right chest and died on the way to the hospital.
    2. Mr. Sawat Wong-ngam, 43, was shot in the head
    3. Mr. Todsachai Mekngamfah, 44, was shot in the left chest
    4. Mr. Charoon Chaimaen, 46, was shot in the right chest
    5. Mr. Wasan Phutong, 39, was shot in the head from the back through to the front
    6. Mr. Sayam Wattananukul, 53, was shot in the chest from the back
    7. Mr. Monchai Sae-jong, 54, breathing failure from lung disease, died in the hospital
    8. Mr. Amphon Tatiyarat, 26, was shot in the back of the head; the bullet went right through to the front
    9. Mr. Yutthana Tongcharoenporn, 23, was shot in the head from behind
    10. Mr. Praison Thiplom, 37, was shot in the head from the front through the back neck, died in the hospital
    11. Mr. Kriengkrai Tanoi, 24, was shot in the thigh and the bullet lodged in his stomach, died in the hospital
    12. Mr. Kanung Chatthe, 50, was shot in the right chest
    13. Soldier Puriwat Praphan, 25, seriously wounded in the head
    14. Soldier Anupong Muangraphan, 21, bruised chest, muscles in both legs were torn
    15. Mr. Napaphol Phaopanas, 30, was shot in the stomach. He died in the hospital.
    16. Col. Romklao Thuwatham, 43, the right neck was torn, both legs were smashed
    17. Soldier Singha Onthrong, left chest and the front thigh was torn
    18. Soldier Anupong Hommalee, 22, his head was hit by a bomb blast. He died in hospital.
    19. Mr. Saming Taengphen, 49, was shot in the head and died in the hospital
    20. Mr. Somsak Kaewsan, 34, was shot in the left chest, he died in the hospital
    21. Mr. Boontham Thongpui, 40, was shot in the forehead
    22. Mr. Terdsak Fungklinchan, 29, wounded in the left chest, he died in the hospital
    23. Unidentified man, around 40-50 years old, wounded from the thigh cut through his blood vessels, he died in the hospital
    24. Mr. Mana Arjran, 23, was shot in the head from behind, bullet went right through
    25. Mr. Anan Sirikulwanich, 54, was shot
    The total number of people killed at Panfah area was 26 people – 5 soldiers and 21 citizens (including 1 Japanese journalist and one retired solider).

    The crackdown on 15 May
    1. Mrs. Thanyanan Thabthong, 50, killed by a bomb blast at Silom Road on 22 April
    2. Soldier Narong Ritthisara, died from the crackdown at the National Memorial on 28 April
    3. Sergeant Karnnuphat Lertchanphen, 38, died from a bullet in front of the Krung Thai Bank, Silom Road on 7 May
    4. Sergeant Wittaya Promsari, 35, he died from a bomb blast that pierced his right chest from the crackdown at the gate 4, Lumpini Park on 8 May
    5. Major General Khattiya Sawasdiphol, 58, was shot in the head, assassinated, while he was giving an interview with journalists and surrounded by Red Shirts on 13 May
    6. Mr. Chatchai Chalao, 25, he died from wounds to his neck from the crackdown at Lumpini Park on 13 May
    The people that died at the Lumpini Park (it is most likely that when hospitals records the person as being ‘wounded’ it means that these are ‘bullet’ wounds)
    1. Mr. Piyapong Kitiphan, 32, was shot dead
    2. Mr. Prajuab Silaphan, was shot
    3. Mr. Somsak Kilirakka, 28, was shot
    4. Mr. Inplang Thetwong, 32, died in the crackdown
    5. Mr. Saneh Nilluang, 48, died in the crackdown
    6. Mr. Chaiyan Wannajak, 20, died in the crackdown
    7. Mr. Boonthing Pansila, a medic from Wachira Hospital, 25, was shot in the neck
    8. Mr. Phan Kamklong, 43, was shot in the left chest, died at the Moh Lheng area
    9. Mr. Kitiphan Khantong, 26, wounded in the ribs, died in the hospital
    10. Mr. Surakrai Srimuangpun, 34, wounded in the head, died in the hospital
    11. Unknown man, was shot and died at Ratchaparop area
    12. Unknown boy, 14, was shot in the stomach and arm; he died at Soi Moh Lheng
    13. Mr. Channarong Ploysrila, 32, died from wounds to the head
    14. Mr. Thippanet Jiamphol, 36, wounded in the head
    15. Mr. Supacheep Jullathas, 36, wounded in the head
    16. Mr. Warin Wongsanit, 28, wounded in the right chest
    17. Mr. Mana Sanprasertsri, Po Tek Tung Emergency Assistance Foundation, 22, was shot in the head
    18. Ms. Santana Sappasri, 34, was shot in the stomach and arm at Moh Lheng area
    19. Mr. Thanwa Wongsiri, 26, wounded in the head
    20. Mr. Amphol Chuensri, 25, died on the spot
    21. Mr. Samaphan Srithep, 17, died on the spot
    22. Mr. Uthai Orn-in, 35, died on the spot
    23. Mr. Pornsawan Nakachai, 23, shot in many places, died in the hospital
    24. Mr. Kriangkrai Leantaisong, 25, was shot in the head, died in the hospital
    25. Mr. Prachuab Prachuabsuk, 42, he died at the Charoenkrung Pracharak
    26. Mr. Kiettikhun Chatwirasakul, 25, was shot in the left chest, died on the spot
    27. Mr. Wongsakorn Plangsri, 40, was shot in the chest, bleeding in the chest. He died in the hospital
    28. Mr. Somchai Phrasuwan, 43, was shot in the head, died in the hospital
    29. Mr. Suphan Thomtong, 49, died on the spot
    30. Mr. Chaleaw deeruenram, 27, was shot below the right chest
    31. Mr. Supot Yatima, 37, died on the spot
    32. Mr. Tanakorn Piyapholdirek, 50, died on the spot
    33. Sergeant Pongchalit Thippanontakarn, 31, was shot in the head
    34. Mr. Sompan Luangchom, 35, was shot in the stomach
    35. Mr. Muhammad Akli, 40, wounded from the chest through the back
    36. Mr. Polenchi Fadio, an Italian photographer, 48, was shot in the chest
    37. Mr. Thanachot Chumyen, 34, the bullet cut through his kidney and the main artery
    38. Unknown woman, shot dead
    39. Mr. Thawin Kammool, 38, wounded in the head
    40. Unknown man, wounded in the head
    41. Sergeant Anusit Chansanto, 44, died on the spot
    42. Mr. Pratchaya Sae-Khoe, 21, was shot, the bullet destroyed his liver
    43. Mr. Akradet Khankaew, 22, was shot, the bullet destroyed his lung and heart
    44. Mr. Mongkol Khemthong, 37, was shot damaging his lung and heart
    45. Ms. Kamonket Hakhard, 25, bullet in her head (she was shot with six bullets)
    46. Mr. Wichai Manpare, 61, bullet cut through his lung and liver
    47. Mr. Attachai Chumchan, 28, wounded from bullet that destroyed his lung
    48. Unknown man, bleeding in the brain from being beaten
    49. Mr. Narin Srichomphu, wounded from a bullet that destroyed his brain
    50. Ms. Wasinee Theppan, died on the way to hospital
    51. Mr. Yuon Phothongkam, 60, wounded in his bottom, died on 21 May
    52. Mr. Kittipong Somsuk, 20, burnt in the Central World blaze, body found on 21 May
    53. Mr. Songsak Srinongbua, 33, wounded in the chest
    54. Mr. Ploen Wongma, 40, died in the hospital on 20 May
    55. Mr. Samai Tadkaew, 36, died from many attacks
    56. A Bonkai community man, 71, died on 28 July from a blood infection after getting treatment from being shot in the stomach while he walked through the zone to pick up his granddaughter
    57. Couldn’t identify the person’s name
    58. Couldn’t identify the person’s name
    Source: The World Today (Thai) Magazine, issue 274, date 28 August – 3 September 2010 page 4-5

    The Red Shirt demonstrators who were killed after the crackdown
    1. Sakkarin Kongkaew, a Korat area leader who was shot dead in his hometown
    2. Sawat Daungmanee, Guard from Rayong Porvince, was shot dead
    3. Thanapong Panmee, Guard of Nattawut Saikua, was hit by a pick-up car
    4. Kritsada Klahan, 20, Guard of DJ Or (who is in hiding) was shot by a group of people that followed him in a car with an M16.
    5. Noi Banjong, 51, a Tuk Tuk driver in Chiang Mai and a DJ of the Red Shirt Chiang Mai Radio program, was attacked with multiple bullets.
    From 1992–2005, another 28 activists were killed

    Thank you to K. Kon Human Rights for compiling this information
    1994
    1. Mrs. Suchada Kamfubutra, a woman who protested against industrialisation in Lampang Province was kidnapped and disappeared.
    1995
    1. Ajan Bunthawee Upakarakul, a leader against toxic waste from Lamphun Industrial Estate was attacked until he fell out of the train
    2. Ajan Pravien Boonnak, a leader against mining in Loei Province was shot dead
    3. Winai Chantamano, an environmentalist campaign against tree-felling at Ban Namlar, Kuankalong District, Satun Province, was killed on 2 October.
    1996
    1. Tong-in Kaewwatta, a leader against Jengo waste management company at Rayong Industrial Zone was killed on 18 January
    2. Tun or Jun Boonkhuntod, a leader of the Assembly of the Poor from Ban Huay Tapnai, Nongbuarahaew District, Chaiphum Province, who led his members against the construction of the Pong Khun Phet Dam was killed by a police from Naongbuarahaew Station on 22 July
    1999
    1. Tongmuan Kamjaem, a sub district head who led a protest against a mining concession in Nongbualamphu, was shot dead together with Mr. Som
    2. Som Homprom, was sitting on the back of Tongmuan’s motorcycle, both were shot dead
    3. Aree Songkroh, a leader protecting the Klongkram Watershed in Suratthani Province was shot dead
    2001
    1. Jurin Ratchaphol, a leader protecting the Pa Klog coastal line covering 400 rai in Talang District, Phuket, from Shrimp farm. He was shot on 30 January
    2. Narin Phodaeng, a leader against mining and the bombing of Khao Cha-ang Mountain in Chamao District, Rayong Province. He was shot in front of his home on 1 May
    3. Pithak Tonwut, a leader against Rock and Stone Mining who was calling for an investigation into the mining company in Ban Chompu, Noenmaprang District, Pitsanulok. He was shot on his way home from the meeting with the government investigation team, on 17 May
    4. Suwat Piyasathit, a leader against waste dumping in his community, which had caused a putrid smell to the communities nearby in Bangpli District, Samutprakarn. He was shot while having a meeting at the community shop in Jamjuree, Rachatewa Sub-district on 26 June. The first court judgement was a death sentence for the hire-man and life imprisonment for the gunman.
    5. Somporn Chanaphol, the leader for the protection of Klong Kradae watershed, in Kanchanadit District, Suratthani Province, one of the few remaining rich forests in the South, which the community successfully prevented from being inundated from construction of a dam, was shot while writing the report about the community.
    6. Mrs. Chaweewan Pueksoongnoen, a leader who fought against corruption in the Administrative Council in NaKlang Sub-district, Soongnoen District, Nakorn Ratchasima Province, especially on the corruption of construction and other issues under in the NaKlang AC, was shot dead at her home on 1 August. Nobody has been arrested for this crime.
    2003
    1. Kaew Peenpanma, a member of the Northern Farmers Network and the community leader who led the villagers to cultivate land in Doilor Sub-district, Chiang Mai province, was shot on 23 June 2002. The police were able to arrest the gunman; the criminal court gave him 8 years imprisonment.
    2. Boonsom Nimnoi, a leader against the construction of Petrochemical of Siam Gulf Mining Rock and Stone Petrochemical Company was shot on 2 September. Two people surrendered to the police but the case later dissolved because there was no one willing to stand as a witness for fear of death.
    3. Preecha Tongpaan, a leader against the wastewater management of Pak Prak, Tungsong District, Nakorn Srithammarat was shot on 27 September 2002. Two people were arrested but are pleading not guilty to the crime.
    4. Boonyarit Channarong, a leader investigating illegal logging in the Chana Forest, and collecting evidence to prove corruption by government officers and businessmen, also he called for the resolution of the conflict over land title between the Kaeng Krung National Park and villagers’ farmland. He was killed by four forestry officers while working on his land in Chana District, on 15 December 2002. The four officers claimed that it was self-defence because Boonyarit was going to attack them with a knife. All were release on bail.
    5. Mr. Boonyong Intawong, a leader against Doi Mae Ook-ru Mining, Wieng Chai District, Chiang Rai of the Wiengpa-ngam Construction Company. He was shot at his home on 20 December 2002
    6. Kampan Suksai, a village headman in Mae Na Subdistrict, Chiang Dao District, Chiang Mai. He was a former vice president of the Northern Ping River Community Forest Network, and active in the Chiag Dao Community Forest Network, which comprises 54 communities working together to look after 380,000 Rai. Kampan is a very active leader in setting up the committee to look after the area to post signs making the zoning of the community forestland. Kampan and villagers arrested Jankaew Jandaeng, a staff of the National Forest and Animal Conservation, on 19 June 2001 for killing forest animals. Jankaew pleaded guilty and paid a 25,000 baht fine. In a rage of anger, Jankaew killed Kampan on 1 February 2003. He was arrested and is facing 25 years imprisonment.
    7. Chuan Chamnankit, a villager in Chawang District, Nakorn Srithammarat, who was active in fighting against the drugs trade. He was shot by a gang of people at his home on 4 February 2002.
    8. Samnao Srisongkram, the president of the Lam Nam Pong Recovery and conservation group whom, since 1992, was actively bringing the case against the Phoenix Pulp and Paper Company (operated since 1975). He was brutally killed at his field in Ban Kambong Pattana, Ubonrat District, Khon Kaen on 25 May 2003. The gunman was arrested as well as the hire-man, who is the Sub-district head. There was not enough evidence to put the hire-man in jail and he was discharged. The gunman is facing life imprisonment.
    2004
    1. Somchai Neelapaichit, a respected human rights lawyer. He was a former president of the Muslim Lawyers Network, and a human rights activist who was actively defending human rights violation in the Southern Conflict. He disappeared on 12 March 2004. In April 2004, 5 police officers were arrested. On 12 January 2006, the criminal court determined that there were no strong evidence because Somchai’s body couldn’t be found. In the end, there was only one police officer, Police Col Ngen Tongsuk, who was sentenced to 3 years imprisonment, but was allowed to appeal and was released on bail. Col Ngen Tongsuk disappeared in 2008 and Somchai case remains unsolved, his body has still not been goun – another mysterious case.
    2. Suphol Sirichan, a leader to protect the forest and Mae Mok Watershed in Thoen District, Lampang Province. He confronted illegal logging mafias and led villagers to stop these illegal logging activities many times. He faced many threats but continued to protect the forest and watershed area. At 8 PM on 11 August 2004, a group of gunmen killed Suphol while he was closing his gate, just over 15 minutes after the forestry police had stopped the illegal logging. No one has been arrested until now.
    3. Charoen Wataksorn, 37, the chairman of the Bonok Environment Conservation Group, a powerful movement against the coal power plants of the Saha Union Group (Anan Panyarachun business). Bonok and Ban krud is one of the strongest people’s movements to protect the environment in Thailand which has been fighting against the building of power plants since the late 1990s. They have a collective style of leadership and Charoen is one of the leading figures. The Bonok has submitted two demands to the authorities: 1. The construction of the Cole Power Plant must stop immediately, and 2. If you do not understand our demand, please go back and read demand 1.Five people were arrested but the investigation couldn’t reach the hire-man. The case is still before the courts. Charoen was killed on 21 June 2004 with over 10 bullets after he got off the tour bus travelling back from the meeting with the Subcommittee on Anti-Corruption Commission following the Bonok’s complaint letter.
    4. Mrs. Pakwipa Chalermklin, a vice president of the Ban Hua Krabue Community in Pamok District, Angtong Province, who led actions against the business group that is constructing the port to transport sand that is excavated from the river. The business group was supported by the wife of an influential politician in the province. Pakwipa was shot on 14 October 2004.
    2005
    1. Phra Supoj Suwajo, 39, of Suan Metta Dharm forest monastery in Chiang Mai’s Fang district. Phra Supoj and communities around the monastery have been working very hard to preserve forestland from outsiders who want to clear the land to cultivate orange farms. There are over 200,000 Rai of orange farms in Fang, the district is known for orange farming, but half of the land used for the farms has been illegal occupied. Pha Supoj has reported many times to the police that they should clear the mafia out of the forest, but there was no result. The monastery staff were beaten badly. And on June 17, 2005, Phar Supoj was brutally murdered in the monastery area.
    There has been no progress in the investigation into the murder of Phra Supoj until now.

    There are many people who have been killed, kidnapped and disappeared in Thailand over these many decades (especially after 1947) that have not been recorded and are not known by the public. No one knows how many people were killed during the Communist War in Thailand. Even to collect these 30 names we have to search from many sources and have been able to identify some errors in the records of the people killed during the April and May crackdown, especially misspellings and incorrect recording of their ages.

    This post is also available in: Thai
    Last edited by StrontiumDog; 19-02-2011 at 05:35 PM.

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    Good find SD. Now then is HUMAN RIGHTS WATCH PAYING ATTENTION ? ?

    Nope. Thailand is a treaty ally of HRW's hidden backer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Sawyer View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by StrontiumDog View Post

    We are now living in an era of politics of the absurd.

    Gone are the democratic values and non-violent struggles of earlier eras, together with common sense and decency (I never thought I'd be cherishing these), and the capability for coexistence and dialogue.

    It would be comic if it were not so tragic.
    What's comic, Jon, is your amnesia. Please remind me of those democratic values, common sense and decency of earlier eras, will you?

    Would those eras include the military slaughter of young people in 1973, 76 and 92 to ensure the amart-sakdina system was entrenched against and challenge from popular democracy? Ah yes, the good old days. I can see how you miss them

    You're a crony half-wit who pretends to be a champion of democracy. Grow some balls like your brother.
    Indeed, TS. Some have a clear deluded understand about historic past. And certainly shouldn't comment towards items they know nothing of.

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    Bangkok 2010, the pre-Egypt example of social media & protests | Asian Correspondent

    Bangkok 2010, the pre-Egypt example of social media & protests

    By Jon Russell Feb 24, 2011 12:00PM UTC

    Over the last week I’ve read a number of blogs and tweets from people, many of whom are based in the west, asking whether and when the wave of social-media inspired democracy protests will arrive in Asia.

    Most of those asking the question are looking towards China, with its rigid internet laws, lack of free expression and inward looking perspective…but have they forgotten the events in Bangkok that started almost a year ago to date? Social media has already played a big role in Asian protests.

    While the Bangkok protests of 2010 are themselves unique and do not mirror the political environment and build-up of that in the North African/Middle Eastern states that have hit the news lately, social media essentially performed the same role albeit to a different level in Thailand.

    Saving for the political discussion for my fellow Asian Correspondent bloggers who specialise in the subject, I’d like to look at exactly how social media affected the protest in 2010? And the Thai example compares to what we’ve witnessd across the world this year?

    News consumption

    Arguable the single most visible role of social media in both this year’s protests and the Bangkok 2010 protest was breaking and distributing news and events as they unfolded.

    In the same way that certain political correspondents and locals ‘on the ground’ found their message broadcast across Twitter, so did – in a lesser way – many of the journalists and correspondents that braved the dangerous conditions in Bangkok, particularly during the army crackdown period, passed valuable insight to the world before traditional media could

    As many expats and Thais alike will testify, during the protests – when Bangkok ground to a halt – Twitter and to a lesser extend Facebook were the most effective ways to stay in touch with the latest developments for a snap shot of what was happening at any given time.

    Again, with both the protests in 2011 and Thailand last year, traditional media badly lagged social media, to the point that tweets and Facebook updates were often used as the central hook to provide the basis for media stories.

    The need to stay connected on Facebook and Twitter led to a huge surge in membership numbers in Thailand while a number of Twitter users, based in Thailand, found their audience of followers growing by hundreds on a daily basis. While this doesn’t represent the same level growth as Egypt – given the growth Twitter had made in the last 12 months which have seen it make considerable growth internationally – this was impressive at the time.

    Journalists, bloggers or just members of the public?

    Alongside the changing consumption of news, so too did social media change the sources of news. Florian Witulski ([at]vaitor), then a little known journalism student, broadcast his efforts to report and stay alive during the government crackdown – during which many of the protest’s total of 90 plus deaths occurred - became a much followed figure and is now an established freelance journalist a year later.

    Alongside Witulski and as mentioned above, many of Bangkok’s ‘Twitteratti’ found themselves acquiring large numbers of fans who relied on updates and retweets of Twitter messages to stay in the loop, regardless of whether the source was a member of the media or not.

    Such was the balance of power that many western media outlets reached out to ordinary, non-journalist citizens in Thailand for interviews using Twitter as a guide to finding those in the known in Bangkok.

    Enjoying comparatively greater freedom than traditional media online, blogs also become popular sources for updates, news and – often – objective analysis of events. Although, as I will move on to discuss, these benefits came with the added danger that they may be discovered and shut-down by the government.

    Organisation

    A key factor in Egypt and other uprising this year to date, social media has been heralded as the key to bringing like minded protesters together in a new and more accessible method than ever before.

    Although most of the reported 17 million internet users in Thailand are most likely not supporters of the UDD political party widely responsible for the protests (as those in urban areas tend, generally speaking, to be less likely to support the party) nonetheless key influencers within the movement did exchange information and, with the help of other established communication forms, social media was an important part of the organisation.

    Equally, on the other side of the spectrum, the anti-protester protests (yes, no typo here there were anti-protest protests) used Facebook, and to a lesser extent Twitter, to help mobilise support and arrange rallies to show their opposition to the UDD’s actions in Bangkok.

    There is no doubt that the 2011 protests have made greater use of social media to organise, but to say that it wasn’t used to organise the protests in Bangkok in 2010 is simply not true…it was used albeit to a lesser extent, primarily amongst influencers and in conjunction with more traditional means of communication too.

    Censorship

    While Egypt and now Libya shut down the internet altogether to combat protests their respective countries, Thailand did not go to that extreme but there are similarities.

    The government made use of emergency laws (the state of emergency, SoE) to allow the Ministry of Information and Communication Technology to bypass the legal system and processing to censor unsuitable websites in the interest of national security.

    Thailand does, of course, have its own very specific laws on the posting of content relating to its royal family, however the use of SoE was not unlike the basic principle behind the ‘internet kill’ in Egypt and Libya. The SoE used questionable motives to essentially neutralise the potential certain websites and services had for the protests.

    Though the Thai government has argued that information – such as how to make bombs – was the primary target of such censorship, a number of pro-UDD websites and even non-partisan site which reported events in such a way that looked unflattering for the government, found themselves blocked.

    So while there is a difference between stopping all internet and censoring websites, both ideas look to block out potential ‘fuel for the fire’ published on the internet.

    Despite the temporary nature of the SoE-based censorship, members of the MICT – speaking at a recent FCCT function – admitted that many of the sites blocked during the protest are yet to be unblocked even though the SoE has been lifted and the blocking is therefore no longer legal.

    Conclusion

    While there are no doubt differences between this year’s protests and those in Thailand last year, social media is a common key elements which has affected each protest in similar ways.

    In the (almost) one year since the Thai protests, Thailand’s digital and technology scene has matured significantly.

    More people own smartphones, more people browse the internet on their device, social networks are considerably more popular (with Facebook usage more than tripling) and – in general – people are more technology savvy.

    With that in mind, there is no doubt that had the events of 2010 happened this year instead, the role of social media would be far more pronounced and involved than it was in 2010, and that is without even factoring in the momentum and increased awareness from protests happening elsewhere in the world.

    Though Egypt, Bahrain, Libya and others are likely to become text book example studies of the effect of social media on society, it should not be forgotten that Thailand, like Iran, India’s Kashmir protests and others, is another case worth reflecting on.

    Is the role social media is playing in protests in 2011 something new?

    Looking at Thailand the answer is no, however the levels of social media engagement and technology – both in the west and developing areas of the world – have increased to the level that social media is capable of playing a greater part than ever before.

    For more on social media during the Bangkok protests in 2010, see this blog post I wrote for Director Thailand last year.

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    http://asiancorrespondent.com/48889/...ontent=Twitter

    Inter-school violence and the value of life in Thailand

    By Siam Voices Feb 22, 2011 7:16PM UTC

    by James Goyder

    When I was school boy violent threats, generally of a far fetched nature, were a matter of routine, but occasions on which anyone came to actual physical harm were few and far between.

    The most extreme example I can remember is when someone on their way to a school disco had their arm broken by a notorious local character who was widely referred to as ‘mental Mickey’. At the time it was a big deal, charges were pressed and the subject was addressed in a solemn school assembly.

    There was another occasion when someone saw fit to taunt a car full of passers-by from the safety of the back seat of the school bus. Unfortunately for him the incident occurred a couple of hundred metres from his stop and when he got off the bus he was accosted by a group of irate young men and received a black eye for his troubles.

    These isolated incidents are the most extreme I can remember from those 15 years of full-time education. Admittedly I grew up in a relatively rural area in the south of England but if fights between rival schools were occurring regularly elsewhere they seldom made the news.

    I could be completely confident that on the numerous occasions when I offended one of my peers and was told I was ‘dead’ there was no chance whatsoever of him actually following through with his threat. In schools in Thailand the threat of violence is obviously far more real. Here are a selection of stories which have made the English language news:

    Boy, aged 9, killed in Thai school gang shooting

    Guns and gangs not child’s play

    Vocational School Shooting Leaves 1 Killed and 2 Injured

    Three teens arrested for fatal brawl

    Vocational Student Killed in Brawl

    Another vocational student wounded in gunplay

    Bystander knifed, 17 arrested in new student rioting flareup

    I have also witnessed numerous reports on the Thai news which have not made it into the English language media, including CCTV footage of a teenager being kicked to death by a gang in an internet cafe.

    The issue has predictably provoked a lot of soul searching amongst authorities in Thailand. Principals of affected schools have repeatedly been called to parliament and solutions, including a rural retreat for rival gang leaders, have been proposed. It has also been suggested that the schools themselves are to blame for deliberately engendering an academic environment which can lead to students displaying certain tribalistic tendencies.

    Education is clearly the key to solving this particular problem but I do not think that rivalry between schools is necessarily a bad thing and pupils should not be discouraged from feeling a fierce affinity to their place of education.

    What concerns me the most about all these instances is the utter disregard for human life. I cannot think of a single example at any of the schools I attended of a peer dying and if something like that had happened the entire local community would have been devastated.

    The majority of these attacks were premeditated and involved young people carrying knives and guns with the express intent of using them to harm another person, regardless of whether they set out to kill or not they must have been well aware that this was a possible outcome.

    The issue extends beyond instances of inter-school violence. Whether it be riding a motorcycle at high speed without a helmet or having unprotected sex, young people in Thailand seem to have a far more relaxed view of risk than their Western contemporaries would.

    In the West human life is regarded as absolutely sacred but in Thailand it is not held in nearly such high regard. The never mind / mai pen lai attitude which has helped the Kingdom develop its reputation as the ‘land of smiles’ appears to also extend to existence itself. Perhaps a syllabus on the subject of ‘the value of life’ should be added to the Thai curriculum because this could the most important lesson that any young person could learn.

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    Social networking is just a tool.

    People on the ground make things happen. It's a fool who thinks the events in North Africa are a result of Internet, blogging, texting, etc that led to this uprising.

    It's quite funny how naive people can be.

    A major power's intelligence services will have been planning this for a couple of years most likely. Not clear yet who it is. Could be CIA, could be Iran, could be Al Quada (like Khaddafi says). Not clear, because to the rest of us the motive isn't yet clear.

    But guess what? It isn't the Internet or SMS that suddenly did all this - it was just an effective tool used by those behind the plan to gather the required masses.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Sawyer View Post
    Social networking is just a tool.

    People on the ground make things happen. It's a fool who thinks the events in North Africa are a result of Internet, blogging, texting, etc that led to this uprising.

    It's quite funny how naive people can be.

    A major power's intelligence services will have been planning this for a couple of years most likely. Not clear yet who it is. Could be CIA, could be Iran, could be Al Quada (like Khaddafi says). Not clear, because to the rest of us the motive isn't yet clear.

    But guess what? It isn't the Internet or SMS that suddenly did all this - it was just an effective tool used by those behind the plan to gather the required masses.
    Don't pay attention to the man behind the curtain. Even if suggestions and references are repeated over and again. Misdirection and magical acts work every time....

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