Thread: Jatuporn: "I dare you to stage a coup"

Originally Posted by robuzo

It would make a difference in the propaganda battle.

Speaking of propaganda have you been watching the redshirt TV channel recently? Some very heavy stuff on there, just been watching some music videos, songs about freedom playing over video of black may and '76 and '73 and the riots and demonstrations of the last couple of years. Soldiers shooting and beating people, dead redshirts lying on the streets riot police charging into crowds, intercut with scenes of massed redshirt flags, Thai flags, and pictures of the democracy monument. As I said, some very heavy stuff. I've also noticed a lot more big billboards showing much the same thing at redshirt rallies around Chiang Mai.

They seem to be having them all the time, do they mean coup or coupe ? I'm confused.

Cheers

Originally Posted by DrB0b

Originally Posted by robuzo

It would make a difference in the propaganda battle.

Speaking of propaganda have you been watching the redshirt TV channel recently? Some very heavy stuff on there, just been watching some music videos, songs about freedom playing over video of black may and '76 and '73 and the riots and demonstrations of the last couple of years. Soldiers shooting and beating people, dead redshirts lying on the streets riot police charging into crowds, intercut with scenes of massed redshirt flags, Thai flags, and pictures of the democracy monument. As I said, some very heavy stuff. I've also noticed a lot more big billboards showing much the same thing at redshirt rallies around Chiang Mai.

Has the redshirt TV channel a name if you know? I don't look TV very often but maybe some is on Youtube. Unreal that this stuff is allowed to be aired, there are millions of folks not able to distinguish between fact and propaganda. It's like inviting a civil war.......

Originally Posted by Patangko

here are millions of folks not able to distinguish between fact and propaganda

Yes. From what you've said in some your posts you seem to be a prime example.

Originally Posted by Patangko

It's like inviting a civil war.......

Yes. The endless cycle of modern Thailand is ready for another turn.

Originally Posted by DrB0b

Originally Posted by Patangko

I beg to differ. The reds will be scattered as the grassroots have no real power or funds and the other part the PT party with Chavalit and Yubamrung know very well which side the bread is buttered. The army is in one piece unlike people reporting otherwise. No, an end without a body (martyr) will stop the mayhem and with better education a slow and natural progress towards "democracy" will be possible. I have a gut feeling that Taxhim will not survive long when he comes back with or without the support of whomever is in power at the time, he has created enormously powerful enemies. Interesting link Should we fear this man? - Nationmultimedia.com

I don't subscribe to the idea that the Thai people need more education before they are beneficently granted the privileges of democracy. That particular despicable idea was invented by a despicable man, Sarit, to justify his extended and brutal dictatorship. And is an idea that's been recycled by almost every Thai leader since. It is constantly on the lips of the people who want to maintain their power and on the lips of those who believe that democracy and freedom are gifts to be granted rather than rights to be shared. Thailand has almost universal education and one of the highest literacy rates in Asia, it is no longer poor backward Siam nor is it any longer populated with Kha. I have spent much of the last few years travelling and talking with many people involved on all sides of this issue and none of them, from rice farmer to government minister have been particularly ignorant or uneducated.

You have stated the Thai army is in one piece. Quite frankly I don't believe you, nor does any informed commentator on Thai politics that I'm aware of. Nor does the Thai army, else they wouldn't be making so much fuss about Seh Daeng or soldiers loyal to Thaksin. How do you know that what you say is the case? Can you please explain your reasoning behind this.

I don't understand why you posted the link from the Nation, it warns of a political meltdown, which I agree will happen, but it contradicts what you're saying.

While you are perfectly free, of course, to waffle as much as you like your unsubstantiated opinion is nothing more than your unsubstantiated opinion. When I write an opinion here I go to the trouble to back it up with facts and figures, I have been writing about these subjects on this forum and others for a long time now, feel free to check up on my claim of always attempting to substantiate what I say. if you really want to debate these issues it would be a courtesy if you were to do the same.

Bob, you present yourself a a very knowledgeable and wise man (Dr.) you use Latin in your presentation to impress(?) us simple folks, what other reason there is. You take much time to answer as you seem to have an abundance of that. The one thing which is rather irritating is that you must always be right and have the last word, this is rather tiring and actually quite arrogant. I do not have the will and the energy to go into details anymore as you will always come back with more arguments suiting and perceiving your knowledge and "I know all" attitude. Dr.Bob you win, you are right all the time and I admire you for your persistence. Man, do you have any friends? Or are they like you "trying to blind with brilliance but actually baffling others with bullshit. I will not put you in the round file as some others but I will simply stop wasting my time. Who needs a Dr. Bob in his life. I don't.....

^latin?

It took me 10 minutes to reply to you. That's hardly much time. Look, mate, if you want to post about politics or history it's not that arrogant to ask you to back up what you say. You're the one who wants to pontificate and then gets weepy when he's asked to provide some facts. Your reply is nothing more than the standard face-saving (news for you, it's not face-saving, it makes you look like a tit) whinge from somebody who's unable to provide any substance to his arguments.

I may be a nasty fucker in the issues and news forums but that's because I have standards, if I go to the trouble of making a detailed post and backing up my facts in response to what somebody else says I expect the same care and attention to be made in the reply. Any fool can just make statements, I have no respect for that, it's meaningless. If I wanted to listen to ignorant windiness from blowhards I could just pop down the road to the nearest bar.

Originally Posted by DrB0b

Originally Posted by robuzo

It would make a difference in the propaganda battle.

Speaking of propaganda have you been watching the redshirt TV channel recently? Some very heavy stuff on there, just been watching some music videos, songs about freedom playing over video of black may and '76 and '73 and the riots and demonstrations of the last couple of years. Soldiers shooting and beating people, dead redshirts lying on the streets riot police charging into crowds, intercut with scenes of massed redshirt flags, Thai flags, and pictures of the democracy monument. As I said, some very heavy stuff. I've also noticed a lot more big billboards showing much the same thing at redshirt rallies around Chiang Mai.

I've been back in the States for a couple of months, so I haven't. Can't wait to get back . This sounds like a pretty major escalation in red propaganda.

Speaking of Chiang Mai, a friend of mine whose opinion about things Thai I respect was up there recently and described the Reds there as "seething." Sound about right?

" I Like "

Originally Posted by Butterfly

Originally Posted by chitown

"So would you say that justice has been equal for reds and yellows alike?"

that's not the issue, you are focusing on the superficial, as usual, instead of addressing the real issue

You won't answer the question as you know it is true. BTW your socialist trained mind is the reason you have such a disdain for entrepreneurship. Socialism squelches people's desires to start small businesses. It creates a lazy rabble that depends and expects the government to take care of them rather than do it themselves. Not many self made men in socialist countries. France is a perfect picture of that.

Originally Posted by DrB0b

It would make no difference. I've explained my reasons for thinking that in an earlier post on this thread.

I disagree, it would make a big difference. The stir shit fighting would stop, but since enough was made already, it might have exhausted both sides, and maybe leave room for something better (or worst).

The current Democrat government is the only "viable" equilibrium,

Originally Posted by chitown

your socialist trained mind is the reason you have such a disdain for entrepreneurship. Socialism squelches people's desires to start small businesses. It creates a lazy rabble that depends and expects the government to take care of them rather than do it themselves. Not many self made men in socialist countries. France is a perfect picture of that.

speaking out of ignorance, in typical American conservative fashion

Originally Posted by DrB0b

You have stated the Thai army is in one piece. Quite frankly I don't believe you, nor does any informed commentator on Thai politics that I'm aware of. Nor does the Thai army, else they wouldn't be making so much fuss about Seh Daeng or soldiers loyal to Thaksin. How do you know that what you say is the case? Can you please explain your reasoning behind this.

it's possible that the Thai army is still in one piece despite a "minority" rebelling and supporting the other side. Having a few rogue element is not the same as a completely divided army. We also don't know the true motivations behind the rebellion of some. Could be anything, from money to personal grudge. I doubt you have access to that kind of information, no matter how you try to "document" it with links and other articles about rumors or your own source from the motocy taxi stand. I don't think it's that divided, but yes there are cracks.

Originally Posted by chitown

Originally Posted by Butterfly

Originally Posted by chitown

"So would you say that justice has been equal for reds and yellows alike?"

that's not the issue, you are focusing on the superficial, as usual, instead of addressing the real issue

You won't answer the question as you know it is true.

The issue isn't justice and equality before the law? I'll probably regret asking this, but how is justice "superficial"?

Originally Posted by robuzo

The issue isn't justice and equality before the law? I'll probably regret asking this, but how is justice "superficial"?

it's not, but justice and equality can only happen when the right conditions are there, not before. It's a cart and horse situation. You can't try to fix the judicial before the "democratic" structure is in place, waste of time, and a superficial way to address democratic reforms because it has more chance to fail than succeed.

Originally Posted by Butterfly

Originally Posted by chitown

the reds are tired of being enslaved by the rich minority that runs this hell hole.

your grasp of politics, whether Thai or USA, is beyond gullible chit

^ So would you say that justice has been equal for reds and yellows alike??

Requote for Chit, you probably got confused when reading my post. As you can see, I didn't address your question about justice, which was irrelevant, so stop asking me silly questions about things I didn't ask

again, focus, Chit, focus

Tanks in the night spark coup talk
PHILIP GOLINGAI

Military coups have been part and parcel of Thai politics – friendly coup, judicial coup, TV coup, silent coup – and the nation may yet see a coup to get rid of the Opposition

TWENTY-TWO V-150 armoured personnel carriers (APCs) rumbled into the streets of Bangkok on Monday night. And – not surprising for politically-jittery Thailand – the immediate assumption was the military had launched a coup.

It turned out that the APCs were decommissioned from an operation in the country’s restive southern provinces and were on their way via Bangkok to Pathum Thani (a town north of the Thai capital) for maintenance.

The next day the military apologised for causing panic and for not informing the public about the movement of the APCs.

It also denied that the army would stage a coup.

“It is out of fashion to talk about a coup,” said army spokesman Colonel Sansern Kaewkamnerd.

On the contrary – thanks to recent events (such as the crack in the Abhisit Vejjajiva-led coalition government and the mysterious slap-in-the-face grenade attack on the office of the Army Chief General Anupong Paojinda) and conjectures (involving surprise, surprise Thaksin Shinawatra, the former Thai Prime Minister who was ousted in a 2006 coup) – it is once again fashionable to talk about an imminent coup.

This week Thai English-language newspapers ran coup-related news articles (No impending coup, Anupong insists) and opinion pieces (Coup, what coup? and Full circle to another military coup?).

The Nation also Tweeted: “Here’s one for 2day: A 14-yr-old nephew of Pojaman’s told his school friends to ‘get out of Bkk’ on Feb 26. (Translated: Here’s a rumour for today – A 14-year-old nephew of (Thaksin’s former wife) Pojaman told his schoolmates to “get out of Bangkok” on Feb 26 (which is the day the Supreme Court decides on the 76bil baht (RM7.6bil) that was seized from Thaksin after the 2006 coup).

But a coup by an Abhisit-friendly military against the Abhisit-led coalition government? Mind boggling.

But this is Thailand. And there is such a thing as a “friendly” coup.

In his Friday column in the Bangkok Post, Abhisit’s cousin Suranand Vejjajiva, who served in the Thaksin Shinawatra Cabinet and is now a political analyst, wrote:

“The general analysis among political pundits is that, with pressure over the verdict on Thaksin’s 76bil-baht assets case to be handed down on Feb 26, the Red Shirts (a pro-Thaksin movement) could escalate their rallies and become uncontrollable.

“Riots could turn violent and there would be sabotage. The top brass have been dissatisfied with PM Abhisit and the Democrats in controlling the situation. There have been signs lately that they are distancing themselves from the government.

“Given the circumstances, if another putsch is to be carried out, it could be the first one in history with the intent of getting rid of the opposition rather than to overthrow the government. It is Thaksin who is the target, not Abhisit.

“Thaksin is viewed as a nuisance, and definitely a threat to the military’s security if he ever manages to stage a comeback. In addition, Thaksin is still widely popular, with polls indicating that if an election were held today, Thaksin’s Puea Thai Party would win more than 200 seats, if not an absolute majority in Parliament.”

The anticipation of a coup is the thing that I will miss the most when I end my stint in Bangkok as The Star’s Thailand correspondent (which began a month before the Sept 19, 2006 coup). Almost every other month since I’ve lived in Thailand, tongues have wagged that a coup was imminent.

Though the political pundits and fortune tellers have been wrong on their coup predictions, Thailand has seen:

a) A judicial coup (the court removed Pro-Thaksin Samak Sundaravej as Prime Minister for moonlighting as a chef in a television cooking show).

b) A TV coup (army chief General Anupong – flanked by the navy chief, the air force chief and the police chief – appeared on television to demand the resignation of Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat, Thaksin’s brother-in-law and Samak’s successor).

c) Several “silent” coups (including the Abhisit-led government declaring a state of emergency to allow the military to crack down on the Red Shirts protest during Songkran, the Thai new year, in April 2009).

Today as I fly back to Kuala Lumpur, I wonder whether there will be a coup in Bangkok tonight.

> Editor’s note: This is the last episode in this series. The Star has decided to discontinue Thai Takes.

thestar.com.my

Originally Posted by Butterfly

The current Democrat government is the only "viable" equilibrium,

oh dear.. I respect your political viewpoint and indead it makes for a good debate, but the above statement defies crediiblity.

French you know , scant idea of what democracy is ......................

Liberty, equality, fraternity... but no mention of justice of course.