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Tom Sawyer

The CIA is operating in Thailand to prop up the elites in case you hadn't noticed. They are supporting an unchanged US foreign policy to ensure Thailand remains a plutocracy. The claims of supporting democracy around the world are nonsense and this has been proved time and again.

The US clearly has strategic plans for Thailand. Not clear what that is yet, but they usually look 10-20 years ahead in their contingencies. Maybe they want bases or maybe something else.

And of course the US is - by principal it seems - antagonistic to every left-leaning Government in the world. Whether by ballot box or left-wing coup, the US will oppose it (e.g. South America). Sort of like Wal Mart's scorched earth tactics or Reagan's union-busting. The apples don't fall far from the tree, ya know?

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reinvented

No offense mate but thats pretty much the most wrong ive ever seen anybody be in 1 post
the fact that the communist party are still in power disproves your opening gambit
and the rest of the world, especially the vietnamese wont give a flying fuck if 2 banana republics slug it out with bowls of fruit and pygmies
ijn the border terrain technology isnt gonna make that much difference anyway
and im sure the khmer have a greater will to win

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Tom Sawyer

Then, using your logic about 'lose' versus 'withdrawal', the British did not 'lose' the US 'War' of Independence, correct? The British forces 'withdrew'..

You can't have it both ways Chief..

crazy dog

was just going to write the same thing about the war of independence. How could the yanks lose 50,000 men and spend years and billions fighting a war in Vietnam and not lose when they ran back home?

watterinja

Bollocks... they lost fair & square.

Rural Surin

Indeed. Apologists are difficult to convince.

Spitfire

It was the TET offensive that finished it off, a military disaster for the Viets but a big political victory. It was the news coverage of that time, and imparticulary those of what happenend at Hue and in Saigon of the VC etc running riot in the south that were beamed back to the states that sealed it.

The writing was already on the wall but the TET offensive sealed it. Westmoorland was a general from WWII who was fighting a chess game with those older tactits but general Jaap was fighting a game of controling as much land as possible with the least number of forces or engagement.

The US was beaten, not in a conventional way, but were out-thought by the Vietnamese who did, and were prepared to in the future, sacrifice 10 times as much as the US in lives and equipment. The Viets had more "stomach" for it that the Americans did.

The Viets followed the principles of Sun Tzu which can be learned and viewed on the series 'Art of War' on History Channel. This Chinese guy's thoughts/principles/tactics/philosophies regarding war are now taught to officers of all western military academies, including West Point.

Many countries, not just the US, learned much from that conflict regarding operations/tactics and the influence of the political situations, not to mention the problems of drafting/conscripting soldiers, voluntary armies all round in the west these days.

However, I've strayed way off topic here, oops.

nigelandjan

its only a matter of time here in the UK before history repeats itself over Afghanistan . I don,t particularly like Gordon Brown but I do feel sorry for him over this mess our Tone left him with

withnallstoke

Did you see the beemed back pictures? Hindsight is a wonderfull thing. You were shown what you were supposed to see, and have based your interpretation on that alone.

Spitfire

That is, of course, a valid point and you are right about hindsight but historians generally agree that that is the case and I don't form that view on the pictures alone, this has been diagnosed/debated for a long time and I enjoy reading about history, there is much to said about truth/fiction/right/wrong being a point of view and from which direction you look at it from, sure the Vietnamese historians see it differently to the western ones and teach accordingly. It was the begining of the closing chapter, even though the war went on for some time afterwards, I suppose, it's what is called the main "tipping point", rather like Midway was for the Japs and Stalingrad was for the Germans in WWII, downhill after that.

cambtek

Not sure what mtone smokes but it must be good.
Of course the US lost the war,viet casualties were acceptable because they were fighting for a cause.
Body counts were no way to measure success.
As for cambodia,I something about this-i have been to prey vihear twice in the last year.Initially the khmers were badly equipped,now they have all new gear including AKs,they have 38 tanks up there at the moment and heaps of newly imported US trucks.
They also have several stalin organs-crude but effective.
They have heaps of anti aircraft and radar controlled mssiles.
They also have a very powerful friend in vietnam.
Dont kid yourself that anyone would help thailand-hun sen is on the front foot now and loves taunting the thai.
PS-cambodia has about a dozen MIGs that cant fly and two russian choppers-hun sen taxis.

Tom Sawyer

I used to think so too. I used to wonder why Blair did the deal with Bush. I just couldn't understand it.

But now I do. And I'm not alone.

We (Westerners) are living in corporate-controlled state whether USA or UK or Aus or Canada. We've lost control of our countries - a process that's been happening slowly for a generation at least (my generation - and that makes me partly to blame).

I reckon it's time to take back our countries..Obama, Bush, Blair, Major, as you can now see there is very little difference - they are in the pockets on right-wing corporations and are not pursuing OUR interests. That ought to wake you - and if it doesn't we should shut off the ventilator and those still awake should muster.

Scottish Gary

Pattaya sure seems to have a high proportion of the worlds military elite. Last year i met a guy in a soi 7 beer bar who told me he was a top sniper with the French Foreign Legion but got kicked out because he was killing too many folk.

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