The Thailand expat forum for Travel, Lifestyle and Fun.

robuzo

If there is any way the blame can be placed on the tourists themselves, it will be, face-saving being of paramount importance.

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露武蔵

tuktukdriver

I'm trying to figure out how we can blame the Bhurmese for this one.....

dirtydog

Not sure if they could angle in a suicide bid into the story, bit too far fetched even for the Thai authorities i suppose.

dirtydog

Thailands reputation is saved, I have the answer they need, its quite obvious that it was an internet suicide pact, the bloggers arranged it before arriving in Thailand.

MustavaMond

CNN covers the story,

Deaths at Thai resort vex family, investigators - CNN.com

SEATTLE, Washington (CNN) -- What started as a romantic Southeast Asia vacation for a Seattle couple ended with Ryan Kells preparing Friday to return from Bangkok carrying the ashes of his fiancee to give to her family in California.
Jill St. Onge died while vacationing with her fiance at a Thailand resort.




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"It's such a shock," Robert St. Onge told CNN about the death of his sister, Jill, who had been traveling with the man she planned to marry. "There was no way to hear last words or even see her because she has already been cremated."
The couple had been visiting Thailand at the end of a three-month journey during which the two had become engaged.
On April 26 in her online journal, the 27-year-old woman described the surroundings near where the Leonardo Dicaprio movie, "The Beach," was filmed.
"Hey hey! We're in koh phi phi right now. It's off the west coast of Thailand about a 2 hour boat ride from krabi. So amazing... just drinking eating and living so cheaply and having a blast. Food, drink, good books, sun and warm waters... What else do ya need?," St. Onge blogged.
But on May 2, Kells found St. Onge, who had told him earlier that she had not been feeling well, vomiting in their room at the Laleena guesthouse on Phi Phi island. He put her into a shopping cart and searched for help.
"She couldn't breathe. She was vomiting," Kells, 31, told CNN affiliate KGO-TV. "I tried to run her to a hospital and she ended up passing within, maybe, 12 hours of being sick." Watch fiance discuss death of bride-to-be »
Robert St. Onge said his sister had been healthy and that her sudden death is a mystery.
Adding to the mystery is the fact that another tourist, a 22-year-old Norwegian woman, died at the same resort the same weekend, the U.S. Embassy in Thailand said.
The manager of the Laleena guesthouse has said in published reports that he believes the women's deaths came from drinking heavily.
Norwegian media reported that the Norweigan woman could have been a victim of food poisoning. Newspapers in Thailand have questioned whether both women were poisoned, quoting police sources.
In Internet postings on a Web site created to update friends and family on the tragedy, Kells also described feeling ill at the hotel and said that he believed something in their room had made the couple sick.
Kells also said he had spent less time in their room than his fiancee.
The U.S. Embassy in Thailand has been working with the St. Onge family to determine what happened.
"The police know we are concerned about this, but as with any investigation, it could take some time," said embassy spokesman Michael Turner.



Robert St. Onge said Thai authorities told his family that the inquiry could take four to eight weeks. He said his family has been given tissue samples so they can have testing done by an independent laboratory.



At Shadowland, the Seattle, Washington, restaurant where Jill St. Onge used to work as a bartender, a corner of the bar is filled with pictures, candles and postcards from the couple.
"Greetings from Phnom Penh," one from Jill reads, "We love you guys



And The Nation peddles the rumour built on false information- Cassava angle.

Had this online BUT IT HAS SINCE BEEN REMOVED .

Mysterious tourist deaths in South


By The Nation
Published on May 8, 2009


Authorities are investigating the strange death of two women tourists on Ko Phi Phi last weekend.


Initial speculation from police has been that the women - one from Norway and the other American - may have suffered food poisoning.

Jill Sheree St Onge, 27, from Seattle, and Julie Michelle Bergheim, 22, died within hours of one another and both reportedly suffered severe stomach pains prior to dying.

The women stayed in adjacent rooms in the Laleena Guest House, which has been closed while their deaths are investigated and autopsies conducted.



[ They were not known to each other ]


St Onge's fiance, American Russell Kells has been quoted as saying he was struck by a chemical smell when he entered the room on Saturday.

However, there has since been speculation that the women may have eaten cassava that was not properly cooked.

[ unfounded rumour based on erroneous info first reported as " fact" in ScanAsia report.]

Police say they have yet to get results of autopsies.

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Profiteering From War and Disease, Corporate Owned "News" Media Deliberately Dis-Informs in Order to Further Its Own Agenda- PROFIT

DrAndy

If Carbon Tetrachloride was used for any cleaning purposes, then acute liver failure is a possibility, precedede by sickness

the only way to tell is by an autopsy

dirtydog

hmmmm, cremated already but no autopsy results, unusual way of doing things since a second autopsy maybe asked for.

phuketbound

^Yes, it surely is, DD. I wonder if this was at the request of the family to do so.
I'm glad to say that her ashes are now back in San Franciso with her mother.

This is a very telling article from the Phuket Wan paper..

Why Pursuing the Truth Matters for Tourism
By Alan Morison
Friday, May 8, 2009

Phuketwan Opinion/Analysis
WE ARE no closer to knowing what killed two young tourists in strange circumstances on Phi Phi, and we hope the answer comes soon.

One important aspect that springs from the Laleena Guesthouse tragedy is the need for people to know precisely what took place, as soon as possible.

In some quarters within the tourism industry in Thailand (and elsewhere) the first reaction probably still is to keep the truth from the public.

Phuketwan has been told more than once that an article should not be written '' because if this gets out, it will damage the tourism industry.''

Well, that just isn't so. What's far more damaging is when people are not told the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but.

The best philosophy for authorities everywhere these days is to come up with answers as soon as possible, and to act to make sure that the mishap is not repeated.

It has to be said, though, that on recent experience, there are still authorities at all levels who seem to ascribe to the misguided ''Tell Them Nothing'' theory.
This applies often in small communities of the Phi Phi kind, where the instinct seems to be to say nothing for the collective good of the local industry.

We are not suggesting this is the case in Phi Phi right now, only that the cover-up still seems to be viewed as a satisfactory solution by some similar communities.

As a matter of course, an almost constant stream of comments and emails comes our way, suggesting that Phuketwan is in league with the devil and bent on destroying tourism.

We are not. We want Phuket and the Andaman region to prosper, but we are sure prosperity will only come with the gradual adoption of international standards of safety and security for residents and visitors.

That's why we paid such close attention to the discovery of deadly box jellyfish in the region, and were pleasantly surprised to see the local reaction.

Instead of trying to pretend there was no potential problem, hoping the box jellyfish would simply go away, Phuket's marine biologists raised the issue publicly.

In doing so, they won local government support for a coastal warning system.

Along the way, the broader issue of water safety was raised, and prevention of drownings now seems to be being looked at in a much more practical way.

The box jellyfish are being thoroughly researched, too.

Other issues, though, still need public explanations. The latest mysterious deaths on Phi Phi require answers quickly.

Delay will lead to a decline in public confidence and a turn-off in tourism.

The strange point is that only people in those two rooms were affected, side by side, at a guesthouse where, according to all accounts, everything is kept scrupulously clean.

The Bangkok epidemiologist who did some on-site tests found nothing, or so he told us.

He later told Phuketwan, however, that he was no longer able to comment, and that any response would have to come from his superior in Bangkok.

When we called, the superior was not available.

While there may be a logical explanation for this, we can't help being reminded of other instances where the shining light of public disclosure has yet to penetrate.

More.. here
Why Pursuing the Truth Matters for Tourism - Phuket Wan

Frankenstein

Confusing him with the Canadian girl who got shot but didn't die? All accounts I've heard about Leo have been positive. If you have something else, do share.

__________________
This golden age of communication
Means everyone talks at the same time
And liberty just means the freedom to exploit
Any weakness that you can find

robuzo

^^That's how I remember it. Haven't heard anything bad said about the murdered young man.

guyinthailand

3% (not stronger) Hydrogen Peroxide to induce vomiting—thanks for that important clarification.

If there was runoff from a cassava plant in the water they were drinking that could have been another source of cyanide poisoning, as water sources near cassava facilities are notoriously toxic.

I found on the net the idea that the Phillipino kids possibly died not only from cyanide poisoning from improperly prepared cassava but also maybe because

“ Organophosphate Poisoning Theory - police who searched the house of the two vendors who sold the poisonous snack found several empty bottles of pesticides, and they suspect that the container of the cooking oil used in cooking the cassava was contaminated with pesticide.”
Above from .PARALLEL UNIVERSES.: Cassava Poisoning

In Thailand, one must never be too quick to rule out pesticide poisoning as pesticides are sprayed, applied and used virtually everywhere all the time. Two of my smoke detectors were set off and ruined—could never get them to stop screeching--on two separate occasions when I smelled no smoke in air; when I opened my curtains, however, I saw a Thai spraying pesticide in the yard next to mine. Pesticides are also used in Thailand in both suicides and homicides (because some pesticides are odorless, colorless and perhaps tasteless).

Cyanide Poisoning and Cassava

What are the Symptoms of Cyanide Poisoning?

In humans, the clinical signs of acute cyanide intoxication include rapid respiration, drop in blood pressure, rapid pulse, dizziness, headache, stomach pain, vomiting, diarrhoea, mental confusion, twitching and convulsions. Death due to cyanide poisoning can occur when the cyanide level exceeds the limit an individual is able to detoxify. The acute lethal dose of hydrogen cyanide for humans is reported to be 0.5 to 3.5 mg per kilogram of body weight. Children are particularly at risk because of their smaller body size.
Chronic cyanide intoxication may lead to the development of certain conditions including disturbance of thyroid function and neurological disorders. It tends to affect those individuals who have regular long-term consumption of cassava with poor nutrition status.
Above from Centre for Food Safety - Food Safety Focus - Cyanide Poisoning and Cassava

Bones

i don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but these drinks are easily spiked, and it happens often in thailand. thai men cruise the beach bars and invite themselves to sit down with people drinking from "buckets". they ask for a sip, and then spike the drink when nobody is looking. this has happened to TWO of my friends!!!
one of them became violently sick, and the other woke up on the beach hours later feeling terrible, and had had his wallet and camera stolen!
you would think the thai authorities would be making thai culprits of this sort the focus of their investigations, but that would be a bad image for thailand's tourism in this already difficult time, wouldn't it..

condolances to all involved..

Frankenstein

You mean people who have been convicted of doing so in the past? Otherwise, how would you find them?

Bones

what i meant to say that there is no mention of the suspicion of foul play - involving thais targeting farang. everyone knows it happens, and it has to be on the top of list or things to check into. but in a country where police have even been known to murder foreigners to save face, or earn a few thousand baht, a case like this which has the potential to shame thailand as a tourist destination will sadly, most likely, be swept under the carpet as much as possible..

MustavaMond

This author started the cassava rumour, based on initial reports police quoted that cyanide was found in Bergheim's stomach
( since recanted by Thai police )

Note: " According to a Seattle newspaper Thai authorities will not allow Jill St. Orge’s family bring her body home for an independent autopsy, and instead are planning to cremate her body."


Scandasia
http://www.scandasia.com/viewNews.php?coun...mp;news_id=5432


New theories and questions on women's death in Phi Phi By
Charlotte Lund Dideriksen

Recent theories are emerging in the mysterious death the Norwegian Julie Michelle Bergheim and American women Jill St. Orge who were vacationing in Thailand. Now the boyfriend of Jill St. Onge, Ryan Kell, says he believes St. Onge may have died of fumes emanating from a nearby water treatment plant.
"I found out later that there is a water treatment plant right behind the guesthouse," Ryan Kell is quoted as saying in the story posted by the Andaman Times.
"I feel that Jill was poisoned by a chemical from that plant. She spent about five more hours in the room than I did. She was just breathing in the fumes for so long," Ryan Kell wrote in a posting on a family blog.
"The only reason I did not get deathly ill, is that I kept getting these short breaks from the air in the room."
Besides the possibility of fumes from the water treatment plant a number of other theories about what may have caused the two deaths. They include poisoning from food or alcohol and energy drinks, tainted water, cyanide poisoning from an unknown source, or carbon monoxide poisoning.
The cyanide theory was mentioned in an article by a Norwegian newspaper, which reported that traces of the deadly chemical were found in Bergheim's body.
But the Andaman Times now reports that police officials have denied any finding of cyanide.
"There are no traces of cyanide. ... This may be a misunderstanding by the Norwegian newspaper," a police source in Krabi told the Andaman Times. However, the Norwegian newpaper, Nettavisen, says it is standing behind its report that cyanide was found, based on reports it received from Thailand.
According to a Seattle newspaper Thai authorities will not allow Jill St. Orge’s family bring her body home for an independent autopsy, and instead are planning to cremate her body.
"No one knows what happened," said brother og [sic]the death woman Robert St. Onge to the newspaper.
An autopsy was performed overseas, but it was not clear how long it would take to get the results. Estimates ranged from two weeks to several months. The St. Onge family requested blood and tissue samples in order to conduct an independent analysis.

tuktukdriver

When do we learn the autopsy results? Ever?

Family is not allowed to take possesion of the body? That's shocking. After the tsunami, some bodies were returned. I'm thinking the Thais are hiding something.

MustavaMond

It would seem Ms. St Onge's body was cremated and her ashes arrived back in California on Saturday.
I do not know about Ms. Bergheim,
Press accounts vary from 10 days to months for FINAL results of autopsy.
What is puzzling is St. Onge died first, but the preliminary autopsy report on Bergheim has been reported by Andaman Times.

Where's the PR on St Onge?

phuketbound

^What does pr mean?

--
Her ashes were brought back to her California on Saturday. There was one autopsy done in Thailand, before they cremated her. They are still awaiting some results. I am on Jill's fb account, hence why I know this.

nidhogg

And from what I have read, they did cremate. If so, that is utterly outrageous, on so many levels. Personal (family) as well as with regards to the legal and jurisprudence issues.

Awful.

MustavaMond

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/US/05/11/thail...mystery.deaths/


CNN updates the story to include the cyanide reference and includes the name of the head of police who initially gave the statement.

>>>>

.....Norwegian newspaper Netteavisen -- citing local police chief Nopadon Klom Thong -- reported that traces of cyanide were found in the dead woman's stomach. [ Bergheim]


The final autopsy results are not expected until Thursday, according to Norwegian media.

The U.S. Embassy in Thailand has been working with the St. Onge family, said Michael Turner, an embassy spokesman.

"The police know we are concerned about this. But as with any investigation, it could take some time," Turner said.

Robert St. Onge said Thai authorities told his family that the inquiry could take four to eight weeks. He said the family had been given tissue samples so they could have testing done by an independent laboratory.>>>>