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English Noodles

So long as no Thai or Brits were harmed in the incident, who realy cares?

mordred

I'm surprised we don't hear of more farang being poisoned in Thailand. I've often thought there must be a great deal of resentment from Thai people after seeing farang come to their country year after year on a vacation they could never afford to take. This resentment coupled with the experience of seeing their sisters, daughters, and mothers selling themselves to these tourists can't make them really happy.

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dirtydog

A small can of cynanide is just over 100baht, probably about 5 heaped tablespoons in a can, 90 plus % cynanide, freely available at your local hardware store

dirtydog

Acute poisoning

Cyanide makes the cells of an organism unable to use oxygen. Inhalation of high concentrations of cyanide causes a coma with seizures, apnea and cardiac arrest, with death following in a matter of minutes. At lower doses, loss of consciousness may be preceded by general weakness, giddiness, headaches, vertigo, confusion, and perceived difficulty in breathing. At the first stages of unconsciousness, breathing is often sufficient or even rapid, although the state of the victim progresses towards a deep coma, sometimes accompanied by pulmonary edema, and finally cardiac arrest. Skin color goes pink from cyanide-hemoglobin complexes. A fatal dose for human can be as low as 1.5mg/kg body weight[1]

[edit] Chronic exposure

Exposure to lower levels of cyanide over a long period (e.g., after use of cassava roots as a primary food source in tropical Africa) results in increased blood cyanide levels, which can result in weakness and a variety of symptoms, including permanent paralysis.

[edit] Treatment of poisoning and antidotes

The United States standard cyanide antidote kit first uses a small inhaled dose of amyl nitrite, followed by intravenous sodium nitrite, followed by intravenous sodium thiosulfate.[citation needed] Alternative methods of treating cyanide intoxication are used in other countries.
Agent Description nitrites and sodium thiosulfate The nitrites oxidize some of the hemoglobin's iron from the ferrous state to the ferric state, converting the hemoglobin into methemoglobin. (Treatment with nitrites is not innocuous as methemoglobin cannot carry oxygen). Cyanide preferentially bonds to methemoglobin rather than the cytochrome oxidase, converting methemoglobin into cyanmethemoglobin.[citation needed] In the last step, the intravenous sodium thiosulfate converts the cyanmethemoglobin to thiocyanate, sulfite, and hemoglobin. The thiocyanate is excreted. hydroxycobalamin In France, hydroxycobalamin (a form of vitamin B12) is used to bind cyanide to form the harmless vitamin B12a cyanocobalamin. Cyanocobalamin is eliminated through the urine. Hydroxycobalamin works both within the intravascular space and within the cells to combat cyanide intoxication. This versatility contrasts with methemoglobin, which acts only within the vascular space as an antidote. Administration of sodium thiosulfate improves the ability of the hydroxycobalamin to detoxify cyanide poisoning. This treatment is considered so effective and innocuous that it is administered routinely in Paris to victims of smoke inhalation to detoxify any associated cyanide intoxication. However it is relatively expensive and not universally available. 4-Dimethylaminophenol 4-Dimethylaminophenol (4-DMAP) has been proposed in Germany as a more rapid antidote than nitrites with (reportedly) lower toxicity. 4-DMAP is used currently by the German military and by the civilian population. In humans, intravenous injection of 3 mg/kg of 4-DMAP produces 35 percent methemoglobin levels within 1 minute. Reportedly, 4-DMAP is part of the US Cyanokit, while it is not part of the German Cyanokit due to side effects (e. g. hemolysis). dicobalt edetate Cobalt salts have also been demonstrated as effective in binding cyanide. One current cobalt-based antidote available in Europe is dicobalt edetate or dicobalt-EDTA, sold as Kelocyanor. This agent chelates cyanide as the cobalticyanide. This drug provides an antidote effect more quickly than formation of methemoglobin, but a clear superiority to methemoglobin formation has not been demonstrated. Cobalt complexes are quite toxic, and there have been accidents reported in the UK where patients have been given dicobalt-EDTA by mistake based on a false diagnoses of cyanide poisoning. glucose Evidence from animal experiments suggests that coadministration of glucose protects against cobalt toxicity associated with the antidote agent dicobalt edetate. For this reason, glucose is often administered alongside this agent (e.g. in the formulation 'Kelocyanor').
It has also been anecdotally suggested that glucose is itself an effective counteragent to cyanide, reacting with it to form less toxic compounds that can be eliminated by the body. One theory on the apparent immunity of Grigory Rasputin to cyanide was that his killers put the poison in sweet pastries and madeira wine, both of which are rich in sugar; thus, Rasputin would have been administered the poison together with massive quantities of antidote. One study found a reduction in cyanide toxicity in mice when the cyanide was first mixed with glucose[1]. However, as yet glucose on its own is not an officially acknowledged antidote to cyanide poisoning. 3-Mercaptopyruvate prodrugs Antidotes for the therapeutic management of cyanide poisoning, especially in the U.S., have relied mainly on the enzyme rhodanese (thiosulfate/cyanide sulfurtransferase, EC 2.8.1.1) for detoxification. This enzyme uses thiosulfate to form an activated-sulfane complex, which reacts with cyanide to form the less-toxic thiocyanate, that is excreted in the urine. Rhodanase is concentrated in the liver and kidneys where it is found in the mitochondrial matrix, a site of low accessibility for ionized, inorganic species, such as thiosulfate. This compartmentation of rhodanase in mammalian tissues leaves major targets of cyanide lethality, namely, the heart and central nervous system unprotected. (Rhodanase is also found in red blood cells, but its relative function has not been clarified.[2][3] Researchers at the University of Minnesota are exploiting a different cyanide metabolic pathway in their antidote program: 3-mercaptopyruvate sulfur transferase (3-MPST, EC 2.8.1.2) which is more widely distributed in mammalian tissues than rhodanase. Analogous to rhodanase, 3-MPST uses its substrate to convert cyanide to thiocyanate, but instead of thiosulfate, the natural substrate of 3-MPST is the cysteine catabolite, 3-mercaptopyruvate (3-MP). However, 3-MP is chemically unstable, and attempts at intravenous administration to counteract the toxicity of cyanide have been unsuccessful due to this instability. The Minnesota researchers have therefore developed an effective prodrug of 3-mercaptopyruvate that, when administered orally or parenterally, forms 3-MP. These cyanide antidotes are under advanced preclinical evaluation at the University of Minnesota[4][5][6]

Oxygen therapy Oxygen therapy is not a cure in its own right, however the human liver is very capable of metabolizing cyanide very quickly (smokers breathe in hydrogen cyanide, but it is metabolized so fast that it does not accumulate or have any effect). Therefore if the patient can be kept comfortable with just oxygen alone, then the liver can be left to destroy the cyanide. This has the advantage that no chemicals are administrated, which might have an adverse effect. The International Programme on Chemical Safety issued a survey (IPCS/CEC Evaluation of Antidotes Series) that lists the following antidotal agents and their effects: Oxygen, sodium thiosulfate, amyl nitrite, sodium nitrite, 4-dimethylaminophenol, hydroxocobalamin, and dicobalt edetate ('Kelocyanor'), as well as several others[2]. Other commonly-recommended antidotes are 'solutions A and B' (a solution of ferrous sulfate in aqueous citric acid, and aqueous sodium carbonate) and amyl nitrite.
The UK Health and Safety Executive (HSE) has recommended against the use of solutions A and B because of their limited shelf life, potential to cause iron poisoning, and limited applicability (effective only in cases of cyanide ingestion, whereas the main modes of poisoning are inhalation and skin contact). The HSE has also questioned the usefulness of amyl nitrite due to storage/availability problems, risk of abuse, and lack of evidence of significant benefits. It also states that the availability of Kelocyanor at the workplace may mislead doctors into treating a patient for cyanide poisoning when this is an erroneous diagnosis. The HSE no longer recommends a particular cyanide antidote.[7] Qualified UK first aiders are now only permitted to apply oxygen therapy using a bag valve mask, providing they have been trained in its usage.

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English Noodles

How many septics would that cure?

nidhogg

I wonder about methanol poisoning....

dirtydog

SEATTLE - A memorial of tulips and candles surrounds a black-and-white photo of Jill St. Onge that sits on the bar counter of Shadowland in West Seattle.

But it's two postcards, signed "Jill and Ryan," that tell the story of her life, and death.

"They planned this trip for a year," said friend Whitney Filsinger of St. Onge’s three-month excursion across Southeast Asia with longtime boyfriend Ryan Kells.

St. Onge blogged all throughout the vacation, typing thoughts and posting pictures of sandy beaches and ancient monuments for friends back home. The happiest moment, they say, came halfway through the trip, when Kells proposed in Bali, and she accepted.

But a few weeks later, Jill St. Onge was dead, at 27.

"[Ryan’s] devastated,” said friend Shannon Felix. “I think it's going to be a long time before he can recover from this."

"When you know someone that's that vibrant and that bright, to hear that they're gone like that just doesn't make any sense," Filsinger added.

But so far, what isn't clear is why she died, and that’s where St. Onge’s family is demanding answers from the Thai government.

In a newly created blog about the investigation, Kells writes he and Jill were staying in a bungalow in Thailand at the time, a week from coming home. He says St. Onge started feeling ill, then he did too.

“After that we met some friends, but the whole time Jill was saying her stomach wasn't feeling that great,” wrote Kells. “So around maybe midnight she said she was going to go lie down.

But I should stay out a bit. So I did, I went back to the room around 2 a.m., Jill was looking real bad, vomiting, I laid down with her to try to make her feel better still thinking it was the burger that was making her feel bad.”

Despite officials initially saying it was food poisoning, Kells said, Kells believed there was something toxic in the air.

Then the local Thai newspaper, the Andaman Times, reported a Norwegian tourist dying within hours of Jill in the same bungalow.

Norwegian news outlet Nettavisen reports traces of cyanide found in that woman and suggests a nearby water treatment plant as the cause.

"I think that if that mystery wasn't there, it would be much easier for us to comprehend," said Felix.

An autopsy is reported scheduled for Thursday in Bangkok, but for now, the death has sparked far more questions than answers into the death of a woman friends described as an up-and-coming artist, favorite bartender, and loving teacher.

"We really feel like we've lost a member of the family,” said Felis. She was artistic and bubbly, I never saw her have a bad day."

MustavaMond

This report states the police are saying THEIR earlier cyanide reference was an error by a blogger.

The cyanide reference was reported in Norwegian news initially, possibly soured to Andaman Times article and translated by TV member.
http://www.andamantimes.com/krabi/phi-phi/...-cyanide-found/
" ' We were surprised to find traces of cyanide in her stomach. We decided to send the body for a new autopsy in Bangkok. We do not have any reason to suspect anything at this time, but we can not rule out anything or anyone,' said head of police at Phi Phi Islands, Khun Nopadon Klomthong to Nettavisen. The Andaman Times then writes " has not independently verified the claim..", however quotes the name of the police officer who furnished the quote.


Body of Swiss tourist found on Krabi beach

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

No evidence of poisoning in Phi Phi tourist deaths

KRABI: Following the mysterious deaths on Phi Phi Island of three foreign tourists in just over a month, Krabi police and doctors are still unable to explain how the American and two Norwegians became fatally ill.

Contrary to an initial local blog entry

[ reported in Norwegian news as a quote from police , possibly sourced from Andaman Times
http://www.andamantimes.com/krabi/phi-phi/...-cyanide-found/
" We were surprised to find traces of cyanide in her stomach. We decided to send the body for a new autopsy in Bangkok. We do not have any reason to suspect anything at this time, but we can not rule out anything or anyone," said head of police at Phi Phi Islands, Khun Nopadon Klomthong to Nettavisen.
The Andaman Times then writes it, " ...has not independently verified the claim..", however quotes the name of the police officer who furnished the quote..]


speculating that cyanide poisoning may have been the cause of the deaths, Krabi police told a Gazette reporter who went to Phi Phi Island today that no evidence has been found to indicate poisoning in any of the three victims and that the initial blog report was false. That report was the result of a misunderstanding by the blogger, police said, adding that the blogger responsible had since returned to the police station to apologize for the mistake.

Since the deaths, Krabi Public Health officers have inspected the guesthouses and rooms previously occupied by the victims. According to police, the health officers could not find anything to indicate that any hazardous substances had contaminated the guesthouses’ air-conditioning units, water supply or food. Both guesthouses remain open for business.

In attempts to gather more clues as to the mystery deaths, a team of police officers yesterday inspected bars in the tourist area and took samples of the drinks on sale to be sent for laboratory tests, as two of the victims had reportedly visited a number of bars the night they fell ill. Police are still waiting for the test results.

One of the bar owners who spoke with the Gazette said that the deaths were a mystery to everyone and that nothing of this nature had ever happened before.

Norwegian tourist Erik Liuhagen, 48, died on April 1 at 8am after being admitted to hospital with severe diarrhea. He had been staying in room 119 at the beach-front guesthouse Phi Phi Villa. His body was sent to Bangkok the next day for an autopsy, the results of which have not yet been released, Krabi police told the Gazette.

Just over one month later, on May 3, 26-year-old American tourists Ryan Kells and Jill St. Onge both became ill and were admitted to Krabi Hospital. The pair had been vomiting for some time before going to the hospital. Ms St. Onge died later that day. Mr Kells survived the illness.

According to police, the pair were engaged to be married and had been staying at Laleena Guesthouse, which is about 1.5km from where Mr Liuhagen had stayed.

On May 4, Norwegian Julie Michelle Bergheim – who had also been staying at Laleena guesthouse in the room adjacent to Ryan Kells’ & Ms St. Onge’s room – died after becoming mysteriously ill with severe vomiting. She died in hospital while talking to police, a short while after being admitted.

Investigations continue.

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Smithson

Tropical paradise?

guyinthailand

I lived halfway between Bangkok and Chiang Mai and put up with the constant burning, both necessary and mostly unnecessary, of just about anything the pyromaniac Thais could light: jungle leaves, plastic garbage bags, rice fields, making charcoal, etc. There was always smoke in the air, but I got ‘used to it’. But then recently everyone and their mother started growing even more cassava (thai word: mansapparrang) because ethanol drove prices up. Thailand is one of the worlds biggest producers and exporters (Europe buys thousands of tons for animal feed) of this fibrous plant that looks sort of like a sweet potato. Fields of it grow everywhere in fields and in backyards—at fist glance you might think you were looking at a field of ganga growing. Used for animal feed, making noodles, capsules, fiber board, flour, tapioca and many other things---an amazing plant. But the Thais won’t eat it directly as it is difficult to prepare properly because it contains cyanide compounds. However, most of the noodles you eat in Thailand probably come from this plant which the Thais buy already processed by someone else. Several years ago 20 or so Phillipine kids dropped dead after eating at a noodle cart after school. First reports blamed terrorists but it was later shown that they ate improperly prepared cassava.

In the village where I lived the cassava harvesting and preparation goes on non-stop, 24 hours a day, and to prepare it for shipment to the piers of Bangkok it had to be dried and cut up. You can see the farmers hauling the tubers by the ton down the road day and night. The cutting, chopping and pulverizing creates huge dust clouds of cassava dust that turned our village skies an eerie sci fi orange light color during the day. Everyone was coughing and complaining and I had to wear a mask just to get through the day. It is no wonder I had barely enough energy to walk from bed to couch and collapse---I was breathing cyanide. I’ve never felt so out of energy and sick in my life. Cyanide, apparently, will do that to you. When the sun went down, the air got a bit better and I could once again function.

Having to breathe cyanide day after day was the last straw for me. I am now back in the USA breathing air that doesn’t contain cyanide. I miss the friendliness of the sweet Thai people who lived in my village but I’m not willing to breathe cyanide in order to see smiling people every day.

Anyway, it won’t surprise me one bit if these tourists are found to have died from cyanide poisoning given the nature of this dangerous plant and how easy it is to get sick or die from improperly prepared cassava (mansapparrang). Someone probably served them improperly prepared cassava noodles. I doubt they were deliberately poisoned but I of course wouldn’t rule it out, given what happened to me some years ago in Pai. I am sure I was deliberately poisoned in Pai after arguing with the cook at a guest house over her crappy food. The next night when I ate there I go violently ill. This cook had an ‘evil eye’ and I bet she poisoned me. Fortunately I had some activated charcoal in my travel kit and ate a bunch of capsules of it after making myself throw up first. Note: activated charcoal is readily available at pharmacies and hospitals as it is a first line of defense against many kinds of poison including ingestion of cyanide (though charcoal is not by itself sufficient to treat cyanide poisoning). In fact, the first sign of food poisoning is not diarrhea or vomiting but rather simply not feeling ‘good’ or ‘right’—and when you feel that way it is a good idea to eat activated charcoal (which is non-toxic). Amazing stuff: I’ve used it to save dogs which were deliberately poisoned with rat poison or insecticide by Thais. The activated charcoal absorbs and inactivates many poisons, which is why every hospital emergency room has kilos of the stuff readily at hand.

HBerghoff

Demand all you want. You won't get any truthful answers. Ask the family of the Canadian that was murdered by the Thai copper and many. many others that have demanded answers. The Thai governement could careless about us farnngs. Demands are brushed off like a bug on their shoulder.

blueyedcole

Reading about Cassava a bit and found this 'Plants containing cyanide include apricot pits and a type of potato called cassava. Fortunately, only chronic or massive ingestion of any of these plants or pits can lead to serious cyanide poisoning."

Don't know how accurate that is...I did read that the bitter variety is higher in toxicity and that it's typically fried and served like french fries...Jill and Ryan had burgers...did they also have fries? Doesn't explain why Ryan didn't get as sick as Jill though.

I haven't spoken to Jill in 10 years (since we graduated high school) We were classmates...just not friends (not in a bad way) This is so bizarre and I really hope real answers will be found.

MustavaMond

Phi Phi deaths: Preliminary autopsy report shows acute gastritis, heart failure | Andaman Times



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Phi Phi deaths: Preliminary autopsy report shows acute gastritis, heart failure

No conclusive answers in the preliminary autopsy report of Norwegian woman who died at Phi Phi last weeknd.

Published by Nadmane Sastarawat - 07/05/2009 - Modified 08/05/2009
The preliminary autopsy report of the Norwegian who died at Phi Phi island shows possible causes of the death. Inflammation of the lining of the stomach (acute gastritis) combined with severe dehydration and vomiting may turn out to be the official cause.
It will take two to four weeks before the final autopsy report is ready, but the preliminary report shows that the 22 year old Julie Michelle Bergheim suffered acute gastritis, combined with severe dehydration, vomiting and hyperventilation syndrome before she died.
The police is still investigating, but they do not suspect this will turn into a criminal case at this stage. They are awaiting the final autopsy report.
Acute gastritis can be cause by caused by heavy drinking, according to the Mayo Foundation for Medical Education and Research:
“The inflammation of gastritis is often the result of infection with the same bacterium that causes most stomach ulcers. However, other factors — such as traumatic injury, regular use of certain pain relievers or drinking too much alcohol — can also contribute to gastritis.”
Phuket Wan writes in the article “Phi Phi Mystery Deaths: The Room Maid’s Account” that the owner of the guest house where the American and Norwegians died, suspects alcohol may have played a part.
The Norwegian newspaper Nettavisen quoted police officer Nopadon Klomtong on Wednesday, where he said that there had been found traces of cyanide in the body of Ms. Bergheim.
Khun Nopadon feels he has been misquoted and tells Aftenposten.no he told Nettavisen “there were symptoms of cyanide poisoning” – not “traces of cyanide”, as widely reported.
The 20 year old friend of Julie Michelle Bergheim will be released from Bangkok Phuket International Hospital Friday morning and is expected to return to Trondelag, in the middle part of Norway immediately.
She was interviewed by police on Thursday and gave her timeline of the events leading up to the death of her close friend.
According to VG Nett they had been eating pizza, pasta and rice the day before they got sick. They had also shared a so-called “bucket” – consisting of Thai whisky, red bull and soda/fruit drinks.
After dinner on Saturday night they visited the local nightspot Reggae at Phi Phi.
Ryan Kells and his fiancée, Jill Sheree St Onge, had not been drinking the night before she became ill. They ate some hamburgers before she got ill and died within ours.

hillbilly

Let me apologize for the confusion from the OP. It was not my sister, I was merely posting part of the article.

Regardless, I do hope the family and friends of these young ladies can found out exactly what happened.

English Noodles

If you are refering to that Leo Pinto or whatever his name was then he sounded like a complete wanker and got what was coming to him.

Frankenstein

Confusing him with the Canadian girl who got shot but didn't die? All accounts I've heard about Leo have been positive. If you have something else, do share.

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Any weakness that you can find

robuzo

^^That's how I remember it. Haven't heard anything bad said about the murdered young man.

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baldrick

how do you get a sick dog to eat activate charcoal ?

guyinthailand

Before giving the charcoal it is a good idea to make dog vomit. Squirt 15ml or so of hydrogen peroxide (available in every pharmacy in Thailand) down throat. One dose should make them instantly vomit. If they won’t swallow it, then get a plastic tube or straw and shove it to back of throat, then pour/spit/or syringe hydrogen peroxide down tube into back of dog’s throat. If necessary give 15ml more at 15 minute intervals but no more than 45ml total.

There are several ways to give activated charcoal to a sick dog. The kind sold in pharmacies in Thailand often comes in capsule form. (If in pill form, crush it thoroughly if you mix with liquid) So you can

1)Shove capsules down throat
2)Open capsules into small bowl of water, milk, or chicken soup and let dog drink charcoal water/milk/soup or
3)Squirt that mixture into mouth with plastic syringe without needle
4)Give 10, 20, 30, 40 or more capsules. Repeat dose 8 hours later. Do the same the next day.

If dog seems to be unconscious you can try squirting a little chicken soup onto tongue, which I’ve seen revive dogs that seemed unconscious.
If you don’t have charcoal available, try to make dog vomit then give milk and/or egg whites (then go to pharmacy and get charcoal). Make sure you have plenty of fresh clean water in a clean bowl available for dog to drink at all times, sick or not sick. (Chicken soup works better than water when dog has been poisoned but always have clean, fresh water available at all times.)

Milkman

OK, HB, it wasn't your sister. I feel better for you, but sad these people that died and their families.

Seattle is near my hometown. West Seattle is about 1 hour away I'll check my local paper (like DD, did or this OP).