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britmaveric · 07-09-2008, 09:53 PM

All the political parties - use vote buying as a tool.

dharmabum · 08-09-2008, 12:43 AM

I am new to TD but enjoy the chit chat and helpful information. I am fat, tall and over 60. After 3 visits to LOS I believe thai ladies must be born into a Falang fantasy where they marry into wealth and live a material comfortable life with "Fat Daddy" taking care of them and their family ad infinitum.

It struck me when Lady Dianna (x-wife of Prince Charles) was killed in the car crash a few years ago that many on my western female friends discovered by how hard they took her death that they also been inculcated with a "Princess fairytale" perception notwithstanding how politically correct they wished to appear.

But putting fantasy and stereotypes aside. Do you agree or disagree that Thai and generally most SE Asian ladies percieve fat men as prosperous and partner canditates ? ie. Is fat something attractive to them. In the Western world it is not.

Cheers

Texpat · 08-09-2008, 12:46 AM

Fat bastard. How did you get in here?

We're all slender, handsome men.

Christ all Mighty DirtyDog .... what are you letting these obese fat bastards in for? I have a mind to just leave this god damn place.,

bkkandrew · 08-09-2008, 12:48 AM

^^^and then the circular argument comes home to rest.

The truth about the current impass is that Samak and Co haven't made back the vote-buy money yet, as they assumed on being 'in' for 1-year+. That is why they are clinging on and we are where we are.

More important is (as Brit says) addressing the reasons why votes need to be bought in the first place and subsequently paid for during a period in power...

Rattanaburi · 08-09-2008, 10:27 AM

^ I think Samak wants to make it to the UN to speak. It will fulfill him personally and end his desire to prove himself. After that he will see himself as a world leader. The question is how many of his own people will he accept the deaths of to fulfill this?

gjbkk · 08-09-2008, 10:39 AM

^
I agree with you there

Quote:

see himself as a world leader

Milkman · 08-09-2008, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrB0b

Quote:

Originally Posted by chinthee

^Bob, the reason Thaksin came to power was because of the Isaan vote. Do you deny this?

Don't be silly, I don't deny it, what I do deny is that just because you may be unsure of the motives of voters you have the right to annul their votes. In a democracy you accept the will of the people. Again, where is your evidence for corruption on a massive scale? As I've said before smarter people than us have tried very hard to find it and haven't managed it yet. There are a great many groups, national and international, who would love to get their hands on this evidence. As I said there is undoubted evidence of vote buying but not on the enormous scale many people talk about. Have you considered that Isaan people voted for Thaksin because they were dirt poor and he offered them help and hope and didn't treat them with the contempt many other politicians treated them with. You seem to think, as the PAD do, that because people are poor they must also be greedy and stupid.

As I stated on another thread about this topic.

Is the heart of the issue, the "one-vote per one person" issue.

And PAD want the Constitution changed to change this.

El Gibbon · 08-09-2008, 03:11 PM

Taxin, ( while a supreme thief and con-man bent on lining his pockets ) will be seen as an important figure in the history of Thailand. Historians will likely see his governance as the start of true Thai Democracy and political reform in Thailand's long, arduous, strife filled history.

The rulers of Thailand, including the connected and the social elite along with the industrialists, have fomented a policy of keeping the people uneducated. This was done by design so that a large percentage of the population could be controlled by the slightest distribution of a baht. How else to keep a steady supply of drivers, maids, street sweepers, sex workers, mia noi, subsistence farmers and casual laborers on the cheap?

Yes, a small middle class was allowed to survive just so the elite could have support in keeping the status quo and the "structure" of Thai society in place. The elite needed some educated slaves to make them feel better.

Then came a huge problem. One of the nuovo elite decided he could do much more and was smart enough to figure out that the poor could be easily molded for his own designs. Little did he think that the molding would lead to some being able to see for themselves the power they wielded.

Now the elite see that they can no longer control the poor so what to do? Do away with democracy. Problem here too, oopps, genie found his way out of the bottle and Felix the cat has destroyed his bag... hmmmm gotta get back to the old tried and true ways PDQ eh?

Sorry folks but the tale was told and it came true. People now understand they do count, maybe not as much as they should but THEY are not stupid and will soon figure out who is in control. Its them, now another set of problems will emerge but sooner or later the society will function as it should, the die is thrown.

What you sow you will reap.

"Times They are A Changing!"

While I don't personally have a 'dog in this fight' I would sure like to live longer than I will, to eventually see the outcome. Its decades away but coming all the same.

E. G.

keda · 08-09-2008, 03:36 PM

In other words, the operation was a success but the patient died.

DrB0b · 08-09-2008, 04:17 PM

1:45 PM (1 hour ago)
29.8.2008: The destruction of lawful society

from New Mandala by Nick Nostitz, Guest Contributor

On 29 August 2008 police finally got the expected order to clear the situation at Government House and Makhawan Bridge. The strategy was to clear the streets around Government House, dismantle the tents and the stage, and encircle Government House. They then wanted to stop, and let people out, but nobody in.
Orders were that police had to use minimal force, and they complied with this order, and it did amazingly well. There was very little usage of batons; no excessive force I could detect. A bit shuffling around with protesters; a bloody head or the like. In any western country a lot more force would have been used in similar conditions. Well, in the liberal west there would have been no similar condition as the protest site at Makhawan Bridge would not have been permitted and protesters would have been dispersed the day they tried to set up camp.

Most injured I could see simply lost consciousness, old people. One collapsed directly next to me.
Police took care to paste copies of their court orders on every structure, saying that these structures and contents were confiscated by the state, before pulling them down. Police pulled a weapons cache from People’s Alliance for Democracy (PAD) guards — countless swords, machetes, iron bars, and golf clubs. There were several dozen bullets and an empty gun holster. And one large sack of “Bai Kratom” — an illegal leaf stimulant.

The police was generally very upbeat, appearing proud of their success.
There was a slight confrontation when police tried to disperse PAD protesters that have gathered at Makhawan bridge behind the PAD stage. Nothing serious.
But then all operations halted. 30 Senators led by Rosana Tositrakul have came to visit the PAD in Government House. Then, the pipe smoking General Pathompong Kesornsook suddenly appeared. The mood rapidly changed. First he was with the police (I came too late to hear what he said), then he went to a few Border Patrol Police officers, and spoke. Some stood up, most kept sitting, but they were obviously stunned. The General told them that many years ago the Border Patrol Police killed Thai citizens, that they can’t do so again. And so forth.
He got back into his chauffeur driven Mercedes Benz, and drove off.
Then the 30 Senators came to Makhawan Bridge from the PAD site inside Government House. I asked one Senator if he had seen the weapons displayed by Police. He asked me if I was sure that they weren’t planted. I was. I told him that I have photographed the same already a month before. They all went back in.
Then suddenly Democrat leader Abhisit came. With him was a Member of Parliament who shouted to us media monkeys: “Look at me, take my pictures! I am a Democrat Member of Parliament! Look at what horrible things the Thai police have done to unarmed Thai citizens!”
“Yeah”, I thought, “right…and what about the weapons cache?”
Abhisit spent maybe 20 minutes with the “injured”, walked past the police, and spent about 20 seconds with them (I could not hear what he said). Abhisit disappeared, and suddenly PAD came with a mobile stage, and a mass of people out of Government House.

They came straight to the police line. A few objects were thrown, and police was pressed by the mass of people away. Police could not even defend themselves because of their limited orders. All ran, including me and other journalists. Within minutes the police lost all the ground they had gained, and the PAD ruled the streets again. At the corner opposite Royal Plaza a group of police was cornered, and extremely aggressive PAD protesters suddenly turned against them. I was caught in between, and felt close to panic. It was very scary. One PAD protester postured himself up like a Gorilla male, screaming strange noises. Fortunately a line of PAD guards was formed that held their protesters back.

General Pathompong appeared again, flanked by PAD protesters, and Senator Rosana Tositrakul, and marched towards Metropolitan Police headquarters. Several of the PAD protesters tried to hinder me taking photos, which I ignored. The General gave an order that the foreign photographer is allowed to take pictures, and I was not hindered anymore.

After the General disappeared into the headquarters, I briefly spoke with another spook/bodyguard type –the driver of a large SUV, who claimed that he “was with” Kraisak Choonhavan.
Later that afternoon/evening was the incident with the teargas and smoke bombs when PAD tried to get into Metropolitan Police headquarters. I wasn’t there, I was at home. A few hours later I came back to the protest site, walked a bit in front Metropolitan Police Headquarters. I could still feel the teargas. While I took a few pictures of vandalized police cars, an old police officer in plain clothes came to me, shook my hand, and close to crying said: ” Please, take these photos — show the reality.” Over and over again.
That day I was disgusted. I saw the destruction of the last chance to bring the situation under control within the means of the law. I have seen police behave in an absolutely professional manner, something not that often seen in Thailand. And then, because of a few bloody heads, a few people who collapsed, police were accused of “brutality”. What brutality? Why are PAD protesters allowed to carry weapons openly, use them against police, and the police can’t do anything?
How, based on such flimsy and manufactured evidence, were court orders that took ages to get, suddenly withdrawn that same afternoon?
When UDD protested in front of Prem’s Compound a year before, the army ordered police against their wishes to disperse the UDD protesters, and with much more violence, even though UDD sat there for more than 5 hours and held speeches, without any attack on Prem’s compound. UDD did not illegally occupy a government building, did not attack a TV station with knifes and a gun. It did not block for nearly three days 400 police officers and hindered them from leaving.
Are there two kinds of law against two kinds of protest groups? Are the unwashed masses not allowed what the supposedly “educated middle classes” of the PAD (and their southern army trained Naclop Srivichai thugs) are?
After this day the police have not been the same. Whenever I speak with police officers (and I do that a lot) — they appear to be completely demoralized. They are not even allowed to carry batons, while PAD can carry those unhindered.
And nowhere in the Thai media do I see any sympathy for the police on the ground.
29 August 2008 was a day that started as a day of pride for the Thai police force, having done their duty to the point of the law. And it ended as a day where the patronage system with its extrajudicial powers won against the law. And this day, I fear, will have consequences far beyond this current mess. A dismantled and demoralized police force is not going to be able to function.
Already now, in many areas of town, the security situation has deteriorated. At one level, the police force is stretched to its limits overseeing the still ongoing unprecedented illegal occupation of Government House. At another, maybe more important, level it is worth asking how such an unjustly defeated police force can be motivated to do its duty when it is hindered in such an unconstitutional manner on the very day when it was at the best I have seen it?

gjbkk · 08-09-2008, 04:18 PM

El Gibbon has a good point here. As long as the elites continue to cheat, lie and steal and keeping the poor ignorant and dependent on them for survival, nothing will ever change.

Capitalism in not the problem; the problem is the structure of Thai capitalism, the fault is deep in the system.

Before Thaksin, they had loan sharks. And all these massive banking conglomerates, including Bangkok Bank, Bank of Ayutthaya, Thai Farmer’s all started out as loan-sharks some time ago.

In Thailand, the HiSo Thai or Chinese/Thai can be mortgaged to hilt. They then cook the books with their other cousin, and then go back to the bank with a big smile to show the banks this non-existent cash flow, and the circle of financial life in Thailand continues.

For the poor there is nothing. Thaksin 30Baht health care made the poor so happy and won him several votes.

One of the biggest worry for PAD and its supporters is that all this could change with PPP in power, and the second worry is education; satellite tv and the internet influencing the attitude of the poor.

El Gibbon · 08-09-2008, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keda

In other words, the operation was a success but the patient died.

In hindsight, yes. The Dr. didn't realize that opening up to remove the cancer and exposing it to air that the cancer would spread. ( A known resultant in some types of cancer).

E. G.

EmperorTud · 08-09-2008, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gjbkk

Capitalism in not the problem; the problem is the structure of Thai capitalism, the fault is deep in the system.

The fault is the people. Their morality (or lack thereof), their fundamental belief system and their social structure.

Rattanaburi · 08-09-2008, 04:51 PM

Quote:

In other words, the operation was a success but the patient died.

I don't think it was an operation. It was more like trying to kill someone by removing their kidney which resulted in saving them from kidney cancer. No one here is trying to help anyone as far as I can see. Nuke 'em all! Let them all be reborn!

gjbkk · 08-09-2008, 10:29 PM

Announcement Number 20/2008 People’s Alliance for Democracy On “New Politics”

Manager
08 September 2008
News

The People’s Alliance for Democracy (PAD) has been gathering continuously to protect the Constitution to prevent it from being used as a tool in laundering the wrongdoings of Thaksin Shinawatra and his associates, to eradicate the Thaksin regime, to chase out the proxy government, and to pave the way for new politics in the Kingdom of Thailand.

For unity and clarity of the rally, the PAD wants to announce the direction of new politics for the Kingdom of Thailand as follows:

1. The current political system should be condemned as electioneers monopolize electoral constituencies and businesspeople. Vote-buying and electoral fraud exist through using local influence to threaten the public. State authority is abused and money is used to win elections at all costs on the weakness and corrupt activities of some Election Commission officials, who cannot ensure a fair and just election.

With elections riddled with fraud and vote-buying, Thai politics has turned into “money politics.” Politicians have to pay back to their sponsors through corruption, violation of the law, and violation of the oath they gave to His Majesty the King when they took office. They sell their country as was seen from how this administration violated the Constitution, as ruled by the Constitution Court, in signing the joint communiqué which allowed Cambodia to register Preah Vihear Temple as a World Heritage Site by itself. They seek benefits for themselves and their cronies and abuse the Parliamentary system by utilizing their majority vote to support the ruling coalition in unethical endeavors, turning Parliament into a dictatorship of capitalism.

As most politicians in the system strive to seek benefits for themselves and their cronies, the checks and balance system from the judiciary, the media, and the public are damaged, destroyed, and threatened.

The judiciary system has been damaged and destroyed through the transfer of state officials to put politicians’ associates into power. The Administrative and Legislative branches have jointly tried to amend the Constitution to lower the authority of the judiciary and the checks and balance system. Corrupt politicians try to bribe the judiciary system. The media sees interference. People who are exercising their rights to gather against the government have been injured by the police and thugs backed by the government. All of this contribute to the efforts to destroy the country’s checks and balance system to cover up the evil of politicians. Attempts also exist to lessen the power of the monarchy for absolute control by politicians.

Even if politicians resign or a House dissolution occurs, Thai politics will continue in this vicious cycle if no efforts are made to reform it.

For a sustainable future of the country, the PAD sees that it is necessary for new politics in the Kingdom of Thailand.

2. New politics for the Kingdom of Thailand is true democracy under a Constitutional Monarchy with the following goals:

2.1 Support for good people to manage the country and blocking of evil people from coming to power so all sectors of society are ensured justice.

2.2 The public must be allowed participation in politics. New politics will not only see politicians elected from constituencies but will see representation from all sectors, such as representatives from different vocations and groups. This will be designed by a Constitution that sees public participation to ensure a true democracy under a Constitutional Monarchy.

3. To ensure that new politics is introduced in the Kingdom of Thailand, the PAD announces the following stance:

3.1 The PAD sees its first goal as chasing out this proxy government that has sold the country. It is not necessary for negotiations with any group that sees otherwise.

We support changes to the current political situation on the condition that political reform must happen and the public must be allowed participation in politics. There must also be sincere efforts to solve the evil in the Thaksin regime through the judiciary system.

The proposal on the PAD stage of a 70 : 30 ratio of public representatives to elected representatives is merely an example of how the old-style politics should be replaced and is open to discussions. It is not a fixed formula advocated by the PAD. We are ready for a discussion from all sides on designing new politics and will respect the majority decision for new politics that is ethical, moral, and more representative of the varied social sectors to go in line with the lifestyles and culture of Thailand but still upholding democracy under a Constitutional Monarchy.

With deep respect,
People’s Alliance for Democracy
Monday, September 08, 2008
At Government House

Source: พันธมิตรฯ แถลงความชัดเจน"การเมืองใหม่"

gjbkk · 08-09-2008, 10:32 PM

Quote:

They sell their country as was seen from how this administration violated the Constitution, as ruled by the Constitution Court, in signing the joint communiqué which allowed Cambodia to register Preah Vihear Temple as a World Heritage Site by itself. They seek benefits for themselves and their cronies and abuse the Parliamentary system by utilizing their majority vote to support the ruling coalition in unethical endeavors, turning Parliament into a dictatorship of capitalism.

these guys are in cloud cuckoo land!

08-09-2008, 12:43 AM	#742 (permalink)
dharmabum Chiang Mai Last Online: Yesterday 01:39 AM Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 11	Is Fat Sexy ? I am new to TD but enjoy the chit chat and helpful information. I am fat, tall and over 60. After 3 visits to LOS I believe thai ladies must be born into a Falang fantasy where they marry into wealth and live a material comfortable life with "Fat Daddy" taking care of them and their family ad infinitum. It struck me when Lady Dianna (x-wife of Prince Charles) was killed in the car crash a few years ago that many on my western female friends discovered by how hard they took her death that they also been inculcated with a "Princess fairytale" perception notwithstanding how politically correct they wished to appear. But putting fantasy and stereotypes aside. Do you agree or disagree that Thai and generally most SE Asian ladies percieve fat men as prosperous and partner canditates ? ie. Is fat something attractive to them. In the Western world it is not. Cheers

08-09-2008, 12:48 AM	#744 (permalink)
bkkandrew Clingin' on... Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: BKK Posts: 4,158	^^^and then the circular argument comes home to rest. The truth about the current impass is that Samak and Co haven't made back the vote-buy money yet, as they assumed on being 'in' for 1-year+. That is why they are clinging on and we are where we are. More important is (as Brit says) addressing the reasons why votes need to be bought in the first place and subsequently paid for during a period in power... __________________ The future of TeakDoor: To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. A funny thing happened today - Ant trolls, stalks, prevokes and generally upsets approximately 15 members of the board, yet Noodles goes to jail. Perhaps it was a dream... To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

08-09-2008, 03:11 PM	#748 (permalink)
El Gibbon Elite Member Last Online: Yesterday 05:11 PM Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Samut Phrakon Posts: 1,560	Taxin, ( while a supreme thief and con-man bent on lining his pockets ) will be seen as an important figure in the history of Thailand. Historians will likely see his governance as the start of true Thai Democracy and political reform in Thailand's long, arduous, strife filled history. The rulers of Thailand, including the connected and the social elite along with the industrialists, have fomented a policy of keeping the people uneducated. This was done by design so that a large percentage of the population could be controlled by the slightest distribution of a baht. How else to keep a steady supply of drivers, maids, street sweepers, sex workers, mia noi, subsistence farmers and casual laborers on the cheap? Yes, a small middle class was allowed to survive just so the elite could have support in keeping the status quo and the "structure" of Thai society in place. The elite needed some educated slaves to make them feel better. Then came a huge problem. One of the nuovo elite decided he could do much more and was smart enough to figure out that the poor could be easily molded for his own designs. Little did he think that the molding would lead to some being able to see for themselves the power they wielded. Now the elite see that they can no longer control the poor so what to do? Do away with democracy. Problem here too, oopps, genie found his way out of the bottle and Felix the cat has destroyed his bag... hmmmm gotta get back to the old tried and true ways PDQ eh? Sorry folks but the tale was told and it came true. People now understand they do count, maybe not as much as they should but THEY are not stupid and will soon figure out who is in control. Its them, now another set of problems will emerge but sooner or later the society will function as it should, the die is thrown. What you sow you will reap. "Times They are A Changing!" While I don't personally have a 'dog in this fight' I would sure like to live longer than I will, to eventually see the outcome. Its decades away but coming all the same. E. G. __________________ "If you can't stand the answer -- Don't ask the question!" To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

08-09-2008, 04:18 PM	#751 (permalink)
gjbkk Baa Gaam Member Last Online: Yesterday 10:08 PM Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: โรงแรมม่านรูด Posts: 2,275	El Gibbon has a good point here. As long as the elites continue to cheat, lie and steal and keeping the poor ignorant and dependent on them for survival, nothing will ever change. Capitalism in not the problem; the problem is the structure of Thai capitalism, the fault is deep in the system. Before Thaksin, they had loan sharks. And all these massive banking conglomerates, including Bangkok Bank, Bank of Ayutthaya, Thai Farmer’s all started out as loan-sharks some time ago. In Thailand, the HiSo Thai or Chinese/Thai can be mortgaged to hilt. They then cook the books with their other cousin, and then go back to the bank with a big smile to show the banks this non-existent cash flow, and the circle of financial life in Thailand continues. For the poor there is nothing. Thaksin 30Baht health care made the poor so happy and won him several votes. One of the biggest worry for PAD and its supporters is that all this could change with PPP in power, and the second worry is education; satellite tv and the internet influencing the attitude of the poor. __________________ I can resist everything except temptation!

08-09-2008, 10:29 PM	#755 (permalink)
gjbkk Baa Gaam Member Last Online: Yesterday 10:08 PM Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: โรงแรมม่านรูด Posts: 2,275	Announcement Number 20/2008 PAD On “New Politics” Announcement Number 20/2008 People’s Alliance for Democracy On “New Politics” Manager 08 September 2008 News The People’s Alliance for Democracy (PAD) has been gathering continuously to protect the Constitution to prevent it from being used as a tool in laundering the wrongdoings of Thaksin Shinawatra and his associates, to eradicate the Thaksin regime, to chase out the proxy government, and to pave the way for new politics in the Kingdom of Thailand. For unity and clarity of the rally, the PAD wants to announce the direction of new politics for the Kingdom of Thailand as follows: 1. The current political system should be condemned as electioneers monopolize electoral constituencies and businesspeople. Vote-buying and electoral fraud exist through using local influence to threaten the public. State authority is abused and money is used to win elections at all costs on the weakness and corrupt activities of some Election Commission officials, who cannot ensure a fair and just election. With elections riddled with fraud and vote-buying, Thai politics has turned into “money politics.” Politicians have to pay back to their sponsors through corruption, violation of the law, and violation of the oath they gave to His Majesty the King when they took office. They sell their country as was seen from how this administration violated the Constitution, as ruled by the Constitution Court, in signing the joint communiqué which allowed Cambodia to register Preah Vihear Temple as a World Heritage Site by itself. They seek benefits for themselves and their cronies and abuse the Parliamentary system by utilizing their majority vote to support the ruling coalition in unethical endeavors, turning Parliament into a dictatorship of capitalism. As most politicians in the system strive to seek benefits for themselves and their cronies, the checks and balance system from the judiciary, the media, and the public are damaged, destroyed, and threatened. The judiciary system has been damaged and destroyed through the transfer of state officials to put politicians’ associates into power. The Administrative and Legislative branches have jointly tried to amend the Constitution to lower the authority of the judiciary and the checks and balance system. Corrupt politicians try to bribe the judiciary system. The media sees interference. People who are exercising their rights to gather against the government have been injured by the police and thugs backed by the government. All of this contribute to the efforts to destroy the country’s checks and balance system to cover up the evil of politicians. Attempts also exist to lessen the power of the monarchy for absolute control by politicians. Even if politicians resign or a House dissolution occurs, Thai politics will continue in this vicious cycle if no efforts are made to reform it. For a sustainable future of the country, the PAD sees that it is necessary for new politics in the Kingdom of Thailand. 2. New politics for the Kingdom of Thailand is true democracy under a Constitutional Monarchy with the following goals: 2.1 Support for good people to manage the country and blocking of evil people from coming to power so all sectors of society are ensured justice. 2.2 The public must be allowed participation in politics. New politics will not only see politicians elected from constituencies but will see representation from all sectors, such as representatives from different vocations and groups. This will be designed by a Constitution that sees public participation to ensure a true democracy under a Constitutional Monarchy. 3. To ensure that new politics is introduced in the Kingdom of Thailand, the PAD announces the following stance: 3.1 The PAD sees its first goal as chasing out this proxy government that has sold the country. It is not necessary for negotiations with any group that sees otherwise. We support changes to the current political situation on the condition that political reform must happen and the public must be allowed participation in politics. There must also be sincere efforts to solve the evil in the Thaksin regime through the judiciary system. The proposal on the PAD stage of a 70 : 30 ratio of public representatives to elected representatives is merely an example of how the old-style politics should be replaced and is open to discussions. It is not a fixed formula advocated by the PAD. We are ready for a discussion from all sides on designing new politics and will respect the majority decision for new politics that is ethical, moral, and more representative of the varied social sectors to go in line with the lifestyles and culture of Thailand but still upholding democracy under a Constitutional Monarchy. With deep respect, People’s Alliance for Democracy Monday, September 08, 2008 At Government House Source: พันธมิตรฯ แถลงความชัดเจน"การเมืองใหม่"

07-09-2008, 09:53 PM	#741 (permalink)
britmaveric nid aur yw popeth melyn Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Pattaya Posts: 2,681	All the political parties - use vote buying as a tool.

08-09-2008, 12:46 AM	#743 (permalink)
Texpat ฝรั่งพูดมาก Last Online: Yesterday 01:21 PM Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Nong Khai Posts: 9,788	Fat bastard. How did you get in here? We're all slender, handsome men. Christ all Mighty DirtyDog .... what are you letting these obese fat bastards in for? I have a mind to just leave this god damn place.,

08-09-2008, 10:27 AM	#745 (permalink)
Rattanaburi Elite Member Last Online: Yesterday 08:31 PM Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Unsure Posts: 1,116	^ I think Samak wants to make it to the UN to speak. It will fulfill him personally and end his desire to prove himself. After that he will see himself as a world leader. The question is how many of his own people will he accept the deaths of to fulfill this?

08-09-2008, 03:36 PM	#749 (permalink)
keda Senior Member Last Online: Yesterday 01:50 PM Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 6,675	In other words, the operation was a success but the patient died.

08-09-2008, 04:17 PM	#750 (permalink)
DrB0b Burning in Hell Last Online: Today 12:09 AM Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: OGLE-2005-BLG-390Lb Posts: 4,365	1:45 PM (1 hour ago) 29.8.2008: The destruction of lawful society from New Mandala by Nick Nostitz, Guest Contributor On 29 August 2008 police finally got the expected order to clear the situation at Government House and Makhawan Bridge. The strategy was to clear the streets around Government House, dismantle the tents and the stage, and encircle Government House. They then wanted to stop, and let people out, but nobody in. Orders were that police had to use minimal force, and they complied with this order, and it did amazingly well. There was very little usage of batons; no excessive force I could detect. A bit shuffling around with protesters; a bloody head or the like. In any western country a lot more force would have been used in similar conditions. Well, in the liberal west there would have been no similar condition as the protest site at Makhawan Bridge would not have been permitted and protesters would have been dispersed the day they tried to set up camp. Most injured I could see simply lost consciousness, old people. One collapsed directly next to me. Police took care to paste copies of their court orders on every structure, saying that these structures and contents were confiscated by the state, before pulling them down. Police pulled a weapons cache from People’s Alliance for Democracy (PAD) guards — countless swords, machetes, iron bars, and golf clubs. There were several dozen bullets and an empty gun holster. And one large sack of “Bai Kratom” — an illegal leaf stimulant. The police was generally very upbeat, appearing proud of their success. There was a slight confrontation when police tried to disperse PAD protesters that have gathered at Makhawan bridge behind the PAD stage. Nothing serious. But then all operations halted. 30 Senators led by Rosana Tositrakul have came to visit the PAD in Government House. Then, the pipe smoking General Pathompong Kesornsook suddenly appeared. The mood rapidly changed. First he was with the police (I came too late to hear what he said), then he went to a few Border Patrol Police officers, and spoke. Some stood up, most kept sitting, but they were obviously stunned. The General told them that many years ago the Border Patrol Police killed Thai citizens, that they can’t do so again. And so forth. He got back into his chauffeur driven Mercedes Benz, and drove off. Then the 30 Senators came to Makhawan Bridge from the PAD site inside Government House. I asked one Senator if he had seen the weapons displayed by Police. He asked me if I was sure that they weren’t planted. I was. I told him that I have photographed the same already a month before. They all went back in. Then suddenly Democrat leader Abhisit came. With him was a Member of Parliament who shouted to us media monkeys: “Look at me, take my pictures! I am a Democrat Member of Parliament! Look at what horrible things the Thai police have done to unarmed Thai citizens!” “Yeah”, I thought, “right…and what about the weapons cache?” Abhisit spent maybe 20 minutes with the “injured”, walked past the police, and spent about 20 seconds with them (I could not hear what he said). Abhisit disappeared, and suddenly PAD came with a mobile stage, and a mass of people out of Government House. They came straight to the police line. A few objects were thrown, and police was pressed by the mass of people away. Police could not even defend themselves because of their limited orders. All ran, including me and other journalists. Within minutes the police lost all the ground they had gained, and the PAD ruled the streets again. At the corner opposite Royal Plaza a group of police was cornered, and extremely aggressive PAD protesters suddenly turned against them. I was caught in between, and felt close to panic. It was very scary. One PAD protester postured himself up like a Gorilla male, screaming strange noises. Fortunately a line of PAD guards was formed that held their protesters back. General Pathompong appeared again, flanked by PAD protesters, and Senator Rosana Tositrakul, and marched towards Metropolitan Police headquarters. Several of the PAD protesters tried to hinder me taking photos, which I ignored. The General gave an order that the foreign photographer is allowed to take pictures, and I was not hindered anymore. After the General disappeared into the headquarters, I briefly spoke with another spook/bodyguard type –the driver of a large SUV, who claimed that he “was with” Kraisak Choonhavan. Later that afternoon/evening was the incident with the teargas and smoke bombs when PAD tried to get into Metropolitan Police headquarters. I wasn’t there, I was at home. A few hours later I came back to the protest site, walked a bit in front Metropolitan Police Headquarters. I could still feel the teargas. While I took a few pictures of vandalized police cars, an old police officer in plain clothes came to me, shook my hand, and close to crying said: ” Please, take these photos — show the reality.” Over and over again. That day I was disgusted. I saw the destruction of the last chance to bring the situation under control within the means of the law. I have seen police behave in an absolutely professional manner, something not that often seen in Thailand. And then, because of a few bloody heads, a few people who collapsed, police were accused of “brutality”. What brutality? Why are PAD protesters allowed to carry weapons openly, use them against police, and the police can’t do anything? How, based on such flimsy and manufactured evidence, were court orders that took ages to get, suddenly withdrawn that same afternoon? When UDD protested in front of Prem’s Compound a year before, the army ordered police against their wishes to disperse the UDD protesters, and with much more violence, even though UDD sat there for more than 5 hours and held speeches, without any attack on Prem’s compound. UDD did not illegally occupy a government building, did not attack a TV station with knifes and a gun. It did not block for nearly three days 400 police officers and hindered them from leaving. Are there two kinds of law against two kinds of protest groups? Are the unwashed masses not allowed what the supposedly “educated middle classes” of the PAD (and their southern army trained Naclop Srivichai thugs) are? After this day the police have not been the same. Whenever I speak with police officers (and I do that a lot) — they appear to be completely demoralized. They are not even allowed to carry batons, while PAD can carry those unhindered. And nowhere in the Thai media do I see any sympathy for the police on the ground. 29 August 2008 was a day that started as a day of pride for the Thai police force, having done their duty to the point of the law. And it ended as a day where the patronage system with its extrajudicial powers won against the law. And this day, I fear, will have consequences far beyond this current mess. A dismantled and demoralized police force is not going to be able to function. Already now, in many areas of town, the security situation has deteriorated. At one level, the police force is stretched to its limits overseeing the still ongoing unprecedented illegal occupation of Government House. At another, maybe more important, level it is worth asking how such an unjustly defeated police force can be motivated to do its duty when it is hindered in such an unconstitutional manner on the very day when it was at the best I have seen it?

09-09-2008, 01:26 AM	#757 (permalink)
Texpat ฝรั่งพูดมาก Last Online: Yesterday 01:21 PM Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Nong Khai Posts: 9,788