Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 72
  1. #1
    Thailand Expat misskit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Online
    @
    Location
    Chiang Mai
    Posts
    26,666

    Stateless people to get citizenship through DNA tests

    YALA, 8th July 2018 (NNT) – The Southern Border Provinces Administrative Centre is collecting DNA samples to help ‘stateless’ people in southern border provinces get Thai citizenship.

    Supanat Sirantawineti, Secretary General of The Southern Border Provinces Administrative Centre (SBPAC), said today his agency is responsible for getting DNA samples from stateless people in Yala, Pattani, Narathiwat, Satun, and Songkhla provinces. DNA tests will be conducted by the Central Institute of Forensic Science (CIFS) to prove their ethnicity and acquire citizenship.

    Without citizenship, individuals are deprived of their rights to healthcare, education, employment, and other basic welfare benefits provided by the government.

    Stateless people who can’t provide enough proof to be granted citizenship must have their DNA tested, added Supanat.

    He says the main cause of statelessness is parents’ failure to report the births of their children, which could stem from their lack of understanding of the law and procedures required.



    National News Bureau Of Thailand | Stateless people to get citizenship through DNA tests

  2. #2
    Thailand Expat

    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Last Online
    @
    Posts
    11,031
    Stateless people meaning the native Mani?
    (The Maniq or Mani (Thai: มันนิ) are an ethnic group of Thailand. They are more widely known in Thailand as the Sakai, but the Maniq dislike the word sakai because it is derogatory, implying 'slave' or 'barbarism'.[2] They are the only Negrito group in Thailand and speak Maniq (also called Tonga, Kensiu or Mos), a Mon–Khmer language in the Aslian language group. It is thought they once spoke a language similar to the Andamanese language.
    In Thailand, the Maniq minority live in the southern provinces of Yala, Narathiwat, Phatthalung, Trang, and Satun.
    [2])

    What other countries in the world have an indigenous people yet thus far considered outsiders and alien?

    Or are they referring to peasants of obvious Thai (or Malay) ancestry with not enough education to have gone and got registered?
    I'll be watching this story as it develops. What DNA will the Mani be able to provide that shows they're Thai?

  3. #3
    Member
    harrybarracuda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Last Online
    Today @ 09:28 PM
    Posts
    51,758
    Well at least it's a start.

  4. #4
    Thailand Expat

    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Last Online
    @
    Posts
    11,031
    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda View Post
    Well at least it's a start.
    As far as the Mani go, no it's not because their DNA has no Chinese or Tai, thus no Thai.
    Come to that, I'm not sure Thai have a DNA profile as an ethnicity but I could be wrong on that. From my recent trip to Laos I learnt that Laos nationals don't have a recognised ethnicity, and they share a common ancestry with Thai.

  5. #5
    ไม่อยู่ใต้กะลามะพร้า ว HuangLao's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Last Online
    @
    Location
    ตะพานหิน
    Posts
    4,486
    Damn Ethnic Foreigners....

    All of which reflect 80% of the whole Thai [whatever that is] population.

  6. #6
    Thailand Expat
    jamescollister's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Last Online
    Yesterday @ 11:47 PM
    Location
    Bunthrik Ubon
    Posts
    4,559
    Quote Originally Posted by Maanaam View Post
    As far as the Mani go, no it's not because their DNA has no Chinese or Tai, thus no Thai.
    Come to that, I'm not sure Thai have a DNA profile as an ethnicity but I could be wrong on that. From my recent trip to Laos I learnt that Laos nationals don't have a recognised ethnicity, and they share a common ancestry with Thai.
    Doubt that, live in a Lao land border, northern Vietnamese/Chinese settled this area, Lao and Thailand 200 years ago.
    Easy to see the Chinese decedents, white skinned and taller, Lao or mountain people here, short and very dark.

    Go over to Lao a lot, merchants, shops all run by Chinese decedents, farmers mostly Lao people.

  7. #7
    Thailand Expat Pragmatic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Last Online
    @
    Location
    Last but who gives a shit.
    Posts
    10,072
    Been doin DNA testing to gain citizenship, on stateless people, in Thailand for years.

  8. #8
    Thailand Expat

    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Last Online
    @
    Posts
    11,031
    Quote Originally Posted by jamescollister View Post
    Doubt that, live in a Lao land border, northern Vietnamese/Chinese settled this area, Lao and Thailand 200 years ago.
    Easy to see the Chinese decedents, white skinned and taller, Lao or mountain people here, short and very dark.

    Go over to Lao a lot, merchants, shops all run by Chinese decedents, farmers mostly Lao people.
    Just going by what Wiki said when I looked it up a couple of weeks ago. As a nation, not ethnically identifiable. The Chinese you mention are probably Vietnamese. Have a read of the history of Laos.
    As an aside, it's a history that Thailand would rather the world didn't know about. They were still doing slave raids only a 120 years ago.

  9. #9
    Thailand Expat

    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Last Online
    @
    Posts
    11,031
    Quote Originally Posted by Pragmatic View Post
    Been doin DNA testing to gain citizenship, on stateless people, in Thailand for years.
    OK, but what exactly have they been looking for? What is "Thai DNA"?
    I bet you anything it's not anything like Mani DNA, and yet the Mani have had continuous existence in Thailand since before the Tai migrated south.

    Without extending the argument for the rights of the Mani...What I'm interested in knowing is what is "Thai DNA"? From the above post, I would wager that many Lao people could pass the "Thai DNA" test. What would it prove? That a Laotian is qualified for Thai citizenship? The other side to that coin is the native Bahasa Malay speakers down south (where the OP is concerned). I'd wager that many of them though born in Thailand to parents born in Thailand and thir family living in the same area for genrations will not have "Thai DNA".

  10. #10
    ไม่อยู่ใต้กะลามะพร้า ว HuangLao's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Last Online
    @
    Location
    ตะพานหิน
    Posts
    4,486

  11. #11
    Thailand Expat Pragmatic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Last Online
    @
    Location
    Last but who gives a shit.
    Posts
    10,072
    Quote Originally Posted by Maanaam View Post
    They were still doing slave raids only a 120 years ago.
    They're still doing it to the present day, so I understand. I'm referring to people being sold to fishing boat captains.

  12. #12
    Thailand Expat Pragmatic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Last Online
    @
    Location
    Last but who gives a shit.
    Posts
    10,072
    Quote Originally Posted by Maanaam View Post
    OK, but what exactly have they been looking for? What is "Thai DNA"?
    It's done to children of stateless people who have gained citizenship. It has been discussed on the forum for years whenever poster 'Fluke' maintains his child is stateless and can't get a UK passport. Or Thai one come to that.

    https://www.dandc.eu/en/article/many...without-rights

  13. #13
    Thailand Expat

    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Last Online
    @
    Posts
    11,031
    I take your point, but there were actual military raids across the Mekong to get slaves. It was the French who put pressure on the Thai King to stop it, and eventually he assented to the British to outlaw the selling of slaves in 1905. He didn't outlaw slave ownership at that time, just slave trade. The elite got to keep their slaves.

  14. #14
    Thailand Expat
    jamescollister's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Last Online
    Yesterday @ 11:47 PM
    Location
    Bunthrik Ubon
    Posts
    4,559
    Would think Thailand has one of the biggest DNA data bases in the world, per capita, everyone seems to be a hypochondriac, cough twice, feel bad and off to the doctor, blood test straight away.
    All blood tests head off to a hospitals that record DNA, so clamming to be Thai can be tested against familiarly DNA [ Mother, Father, relatives], is only a key board click away.

    Thailand like many countries, wants to keep track of it's citizens and those that are not.

  15. #15
    Thailand Expat

    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Last Online
    @
    Posts
    11,031
    Quote Originally Posted by jamescollister View Post
    All blood tests head off to a hospitals that record DNA
    Really? It's a bit of a shock to me because where I come from (NZ) even the cops can't record DNA of arrested suspects without the suspect's permission. It's classed as extracting and recording personal information. I disagree with that part of law and I'm actually an advocate of recording the DNA of every baby born as long as the record-keeping and access to those records is stringently controlled.

  16. #16
    Thailand Expat

    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Last Online
    @
    Posts
    11,031
    FOJ. Your reds are insignificant.

  17. #17
    Thailand Expat
    Klondyke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Last Online
    Today @ 09:29 PM
    Posts
    3,110
    Hopefully, the FIFA will not follow the suit, to check the ethnicity at the national football players...

  18. #18
    In hyperbolic overdrive
    Hugh Cow's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Last Online
    Yesterday @ 06:07 AM
    Location
    Qld/Bangkok
    Posts
    1,486
    Quote Originally Posted by Maanaam View Post
    OK, but what exactly have they been looking for? What is "Thai DNA"?
    I bet you anything it's not anything like Mani DNA, and yet the Mani have had continuous existence in Thailand since before the Tai migrated south.

    Without extending the argument for the rights of the Mani...What I'm interested in knowing is what is "Thai DNA"? From the above post, I would wager that many Lao people could pass the "Thai DNA" test. What would it prove? That a Laotian is qualified for Thai citizenship? The other side to that coin is the native Bahasa Malay speakers down south (where the OP is concerned). I'd wager that many of them though born in Thailand to parents born in Thailand and thir family living in the same area for genrations will not have "Thai DNA".
    I'm sure if they fill in the required forms and pay the required err "fee" to the director General of Thainess they'll be fine.

  19. #19
    Thailand Expat

    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Last Online
    @
    Posts
    11,031
    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Cow View Post
    I'm sure if they fill in the required forms
    In quadruplicate, one each to various offices scattered over the province. And when they get to the final office they'll be told that they need to show ID to submit the form....

  20. #20
    Thailand Expat Pragmatic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Last Online
    @
    Location
    Last but who gives a shit.
    Posts
    10,072
    Quote Originally Posted by Maanaam View Post
    In quadruplicate, one each to various offices scattered over the province. And when they get to the final office they'll be told that they need to show ID to submit the form.
    Stateless people in Thailand have I.D cards. They're pink.

  21. #21
    I am in Jail

    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Last Online
    Today @ 07:52 PM
    Location
    Chiang Mai
    Posts
    5,756
    Quote Originally Posted by Pragmatic View Post
    It's done to children of stateless people who have gained citizenship. It has been discussed on the forum for years whenever poster 'Fluke' maintains his child is stateless and can't get a UK passport. Or Thai one come to that.

    https://www.dandc.eu/en/article/many...without-rights

    That isnt true .
    I said that my Boy will quite likely get Thai Citizenship in the future and that if I got him a UK passport now, this will make him ineligible to receive Thai citizenship

  22. #22
    I am in Jail

    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Last Online
    Today @ 07:52 PM
    Location
    Chiang Mai
    Posts
    5,756
    Quote Originally Posted by Maanaam View Post
    OK, but what exactly have they been looking for? What is "Thai DNA"?
    I bet you anything it's not anything like Mani DNA, and yet the Mani have had continuous existence in Thailand since before the Tai migrated south.

    Without extending the argument for the rights of the Mani...What I'm interested in knowing is what is "Thai DNA"? From the above post, I would wager that many Lao people could pass the "Thai DNA" test. What would it prove? That a Laotian is qualified for Thai citizenship? The other side to that coin is the native Bahasa Malay speakers down south (where the OP is concerned). I'd wager that many of them though born in Thailand to parents born in Thailand and thir family living in the same area for genrations will not have "Thai DNA".

    They test peoples DNA to see whether they are children of Thai nationals and therefore Thai themselves .
    DNA itself, cannot show whether a person is Thai or not .

  23. #23
    Thailand Expat
    jamescollister's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Last Online
    Yesterday @ 11:47 PM
    Location
    Bunthrik Ubon
    Posts
    4,559
    Quote Originally Posted by jamescollister View Post
    Would think Thailand has one of the biggest DNA data bases in the world, per capita, everyone seems to be a hypochondriac, cough twice, feel bad and off to the doctor, blood test straight away.
    All blood tests head off to a hospitals that record DNA, so clamming to be Thai can be tested against familiarly DNA [ Mother, Father, relatives], is only a key board click away.

    Thailand like many countries, wants to keep track of it's citizens and those that are not.
    Going to retract my statement, asked a few questions today, seems DNA testing around here, is some sort of medical research project.
    My mistake, not unusual, often get the Thai story. told, by the Thais, who get confused by the facts.

  24. #24
    Thailand Expat
    jamescollister's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Last Online
    Yesterday @ 11:47 PM
    Location
    Bunthrik Ubon
    Posts
    4,559
    Quote Originally Posted by Pragmatic View Post
    Stateless people in Thailand have I.D cards. They're pink.
    I have one, first number is 6, meaning illegal entry, stateless person.
    Have no idea what it really means, but have been asked, do I have written permission to leave my district, as a refugee, TIT.

  25. #25
    Thailand Expat

    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Last Online
    @
    Posts
    11,031
    Quote Originally Posted by Fluke View Post
    DNA itself, cannot show whether a person is Thai or not .
    OK, that was my question regarding "what is Thai DNA?". The nation has not yet developed an ethnicly distinct DNA profile, (like Australia or NZ), whereas it could be stated that there are such things as "British DNA" or "Japanese DNA". There's just DNA of Thai people which may or may not be proof of Thai ancestry. I would think that because of the age of the Thai identity that something pretty close to an ethnic Thai DNA may exist.
    Which brings me back to minorities that have a traditional existence in Thailand but are still considered to be non-Thai. DNA tsting is not going to prove them to be "Thai" and thus they are doomed not to get Thai citizenship.
    The OP talks about the southern provinces, and I wondered about the Mani and also about 3rd or 4th generation Thai Malays who are actually xxth generation living in the area.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •