Thread: Chinese official threatens 'decisive action' if Taiwan declares independence

TAIPEI (Taiwan News) – On Dec. 25, the Chinese state-run newspaper "The Study Times," published an article by Liu Junchuan (劉軍川), an official with the Taiwan Affairs Office of the State Council, which asserts that the annexation of Taiwan is a top priority of the Chinese government.

His commentary is outrageous and quickly drew the attention of Taiwanese media.


“The Study Times” is published by the Central Party School and is essential reading for future Communist Party officials. The article is entitled “The Great Renaissance of the Chinese People demands the complete Reunification of the Motherland” (中華民族偉大復興必然要求實現祖國完全統一), which is a rewording of a statement made by Xi Jinping.


The article makes the claim that China has every advantage in regards to solving the Taiwan issue, and more interesting, that taking control of Taiwan is prerequisite for the continued advancement of China’s interests economically, militarily, socially, and culturally.


In the article Liu states that due to China’s recent development, it possesses an “overwhelming strategic advantage over Taiwan,” and that the situation continues “to develop in a direction beneficial to (China), and will not change, time and momentum are on (China’s) side,” as reported by Reuters.


In the article, Liu outlines the extremely rapid economic development of China in comparison to Taiwan noting that in 2000 the total economic output of China was 3.7 times that of Taiwan, and by 2016 it had increased to 21.9 times that of Taiwan.


Despite the headline and statements like “Should separatist forces cause any major incidents, we will fire upon them decisively,” the article’s core message is actually much more subdued.


It stresses that things are going just as planned, and that the strategy for peaceful unification is progressing perfectly apace. Liu clearly wants to believe that China’s economic might and the “One Party, Two Systems” model of Hong Kong must surely be getting increasingly irresistible for the Taiwanese population.


It is not immediately clear whether Liu is seeking to reassure himself or his readers of the supposed “inevitability” and “attractiveness” of his proposition; however his urgent tone is certainly an indication of the sensitivity and the hubris with which the Chinese government regards Taiwan’s supposed destiny.


However reading between the lines and arrogance, Liu’s message seems to indicate two things; the first is to reassure readers that China’s position economically and militarily is unshakable, and to offer a persuasive message that there is no need to worry about the Taiwan situation.

The second underlying message appears to be, that despite the typical nationalist pontificating, Liu is urging a return to a posture of calm and patient calculation. Multiple phrasings of “time is on our side,” are offered as both encouragement and consolation to the more strident voices urging hasty action among the party and the PLA.


That sentiment at least is reasonable, especially considering the boisterous language and provocative actions from both Chinese state officials and the Chinese military of late.


However, as for Liu’s arrogance, and his idealized and very suspect version of history, it is extremely unlikely he will be persuading anyone in Taiwan any time soon.

https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3328049

Originally Posted by Norton

Taiwan citizens consider themselves Taiwanese

Link?

Originally Posted by misskit

which asserts that the annexation of Taiwan is a top priority of the Chinese government.

One possible scenario of action, from a scholar, does not make it government policy. But hey no western think tank calls for one action or another. Keep digging MK I'm sure one of your top picks will one day become a fact.

Originally Posted by OhOh

Link?

Lived there for 3 years but none the less plenty of links. Here's but one. The ROC wants nothing to do with China.

A new poll by think tank the Taiwan Braintrust, shows that nearly 90 percent of the population in Taiwan -- officially the Republic of China -- would identify themselves as “Taiwanese” rather than “Chinese” if they were to choose between the two. Just 6 percent said they consider themselves Chinese.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jnylander/2015/02/14/strong-support-for-independence-in-taiwan/#6f924c1d281d

Originally Posted by OhOh

One possible scenario of action, from a scholar, does not make it government policy. But hey no western think tank calls for one action or another. Keep digging MK I'm sure one of your top picks will one day become a fact.

What kind of uneducated rabid fascist-police-state-loving moron are you? You're even batting for the DPRK - satan's shopping centre - on another thread!

At the Hash there are a few "Chinese" women. When asked "Are you Chinese?" They say "No I am from Taiwan" OK small sample but they are all united in that opinion.

Originally Posted by Norton

Indeed. About 90% of Taiwan citizens consider themselves Taiwanese and have no desire to enter into any form of integration to China. With minor restrictions Taiwan is de facto independent.

Should the Chinese take military action against Taiwan, it would without doubt bring the US and China to a military confrontation.

Both Taiwan and China best keep it cool and leave the status quo prevail.

Yeah, all a bit silly and deeply rhetorical.

Beyond the subliminal de facto aspect, Taiwan is understood, universally, to be sovereign and freely independent from the PRC.

These geopolitical gaming traditions amongst the powers tend to be quite self-induced, as they always have been.

Hands of Taiwan - everyone.
They're doing quite well, thank you very much.

Taiwan authorities 'deprive others of their right to communication'

The current Taiwan authorities have attempted to interfere with and prevent cross-Straits communications, activities that go against the will of the people, the State Council Taiwan Affairs Office said on Wednesday.


An Fengshan, a spokesman for the office, made the remarks at a news conference in reference to the Taiwan authorities' decision to reject Kuomintang Vice-Chairman Tseng Yung-chuan's application to visit the mainland.


"The current Taiwan authorities restrain themselves from communicating with the mainland, and also deprive others of their right to communication," An said.


The Communist Party of China and the KMT have increased cooperation on the common political foundation of adhering to the 1992 Consensus and opposing "Taiwan independence", he said, adding that such cooperation is "conducive to maintaining cross-Straits peace and stability, and promoting the peaceful development of cross-Strait relations".


An said the mainland has issued 2.69 million travel permits to Taiwan residents since 2015 and would develop more convenient services.


It is futile for Taiwan to use military force to resist reunification, given the widening strength gap between the island and the Chinese mainland, An said.


The way to safeguard peace and stability in the Taiwan Straits is to abandon "Taiwan independence" and a hostile mentality, he said, adding, "Separatist attempts for 'Taiwan independence' in any form will be firmly rejected by people across the Straits and doomed to failure."


Asked about the detention of four officials from the pro-reunification New Party in Taiwan, the spokesman condemned Taiwan authorities for indulging separatists while suppressing and persecuting those who support peaceful reunification.


Prosecutors in Taiwan took the four officials away and searched their homes on Dec 18 for alleged violations of the island's security regulations.


An spoke highly of parties and groups in Taiwan that have been upholding the one-China principle and peaceful reunification, saying that realizing the country's complete reunification is the shared aspiration of all Chinese people and in the fundamental interests of the Chinese nation.


"The frequent behaviors of the Taiwan authorities indicate the lack of confidence," said Xu Xiaodi, a researcher of Taiwan studies at the CPC Central Party School's Institute for International Strategic Studies.


"Tsai Ing-wen and her administration are trying to test the bottom line and tolerance of the Chinese mainland, which will definitely undermine exchanges of the peoples of the two sides. They lack vision for the development of cross-Straits relations over the long run," Xu said.

Taiwan authorities 'deprive others of their right to communication' - Chinadaily.com.cn

Originally Posted by CaptainNemo

What kind of uneducated rabid fascist-police-state-loving moron are you? You're even batting for the DPRK - satan's shopping centre - on another thread!

Oh dear another snowflake unable to accept an alternative is possible to those of good faith.

Originally Posted by HuangLao

Taiwan is understood, universally, to be sovereign and freely independent from the PRC.

One wonders where the Chinese provinces seat is in UNGA.

Post#10. Thanks

Some sobering facts, and thoughts. I lived for 12 years in HK, & have spent a considerable amount of time in both Taiwan & China.

• The busiest international flight in the world, by a considerable margin of passenger numbers, is HK, China - Taipei. Has been for some years.
• Many Taiwanese use HK (informally or not) as a convenient entrepot for onward travel to China- but Taipei/ Shanghai, & a couple of other eastern seaboard Chinese cities, are very big too. The traditional MO is they would invest in Chinese factories quite merrily, but legally base their investment out of HK, with it's old fashioned anglicisms like an impartial legal system, & the Rule of Law. When Money talks, Politics walks.
• Investment links between Taiwan & China are already huge- although it is mostly one way, proceeding from Taiwan. Taiwanese were early FDI investors there, assisted no doubt by their Chinese ethnicity, culture & language.
  
  
  
• As China grows, so inevitably does it's international & regional clout. As the US recedes into it's shell, so does it's clout also- at the UN/ international community, but also economically. China is already a far bigger investor in the region than the US. They are even going to manufacture arnaments in Thailand- could you imagine that ever happening in the old, rapidly fading post WW2 unipolar world order?
  
  
• Unless something has drastically changed, the Taiwanese Do consider themselves Chinese- in fact they consider themselves the Real Chinese. Mainland China, you see, had it's traditional culture and traditions bastardised by the Cultural revolution, and other Maoism's (the number of times I heard that in Taiwan).
  
• But lets face it, China has changed a lot since Mao, and so has the World.
  
• Taiwan also hosts the worlds greatest collection of culturally significant Chinese antiquities & treasures, in the National museum, Taipei- a much underrated attraction, within a nation that is also a much underrated tourist attraction. Plundered by the retreating Nationalists- sure, Mao kept the buildings, but Chiang Kai Shek stole the family silver. Such things can make convenient pretexts, ie excuses, for ratcheting up the action when the time is considered right.
  
• Time, and geopolitical trends, quite obviously favor the Chinese in this regard. Surely that is obvious?

So my long term prognosis, I am afraid, does not favor Taiwan remaining independent from mainland China- although I doubt this will happen during the course of my lifetime, or immediately beyond. Taiwan would do well to arm itself, and not just rely on an aging 'Big Brother' to protect & guarantee it's territorial integrity- otherwise, it will be in a very weakened position to strike the best possible deal, whenever the time may come.

Perhaps HK and the SEZ relationship it has with the PRC might provide a reasonably enlightened model, looking toward the long term. But still carry a big stick, Taiwan. Otherwise you'll likely end up more like Tibet at the negotiating table.

They do not want to be part of mainland China.

It is ancient history. Get over it you bunch of fuckin cry babies.

China should be broken up into smaller countries anyway.

They don't even speak the same language in the north and south.

Aspiring world leaders. LMFAO.

They are politically repressed, culturally backwards, morally short sighted, barely civilised fuckin bumpkins.

Originally Posted by OhOh

Oh dear another snowflake unable to accept an alternative is possible to those of good faith.

What alternative? The only alternative you seem to be pushing is an alternative to reality, you gormless gibbering sinomaniac gimbal-brained wankwizard.
What on earth is snowflakey about drawing attention to the obvious fact that you are an apologist for doubleplusungood faith moronic gangster oligarchies? You can't even speak Chinese, fengzi, and you show absolutely no sign of having ever studied the history of the region. Have you ever met any Formosan people? Have you any idea how tenuous any claim any Chinese state has over Formosa... an island to which Portugal, Holland, Spain, and Japan have stronger claims, never mind the aboriginal people - who really do deserve the right to self-determination; the current government of Formosa predates even the existence of the quasi-Communist regime in Peking. You're as snowflakey as a katabatic diarrhoearic sleet from the chilliest chthnonic cryochasms of Satan's very own hoary bespunkled rectum: a bitch of Bejing no less. All you ever seem to do is dribble the fermented cabbagey curdled crack rocks that belch up from the quivering maws of a deranged north korean newscaster. You shriek your anti-american pro-chinese drivel like a frightened turkey at every intolerant, illiterate, panickling twist and turn like you're having some kind of fractal-like coil of verbal fits, compelling you to fart and vomit out your next ridiculous braindumpling like a cross-eyed chinless buck-toothed convex-spectacled skinny-armed pot-bellied lisping scraping from the soiled underpants of a sweaty-mouthed hikkikomorified chronic masturbator.

Originally Posted by sabang

Some sobering facts, and thoughts. I lived for 12 years in HK, & have spent a considerable amount of time in both Taiwan & China.

• The busiest international flight in the world, by a considerable margin of passenger numbers, is HK, China - Taipei. Has been for some years.
  
  
  
• Many Taiwanese use HK (informally or not) as a convenient entrepot for onward travel to China- but Taipei/ Shanghai, & a couple of other eastern seaboard Chinese cities, are very big too. The traditional MO is they would invest in Chinese factories quite merrily, but legally base their investment out of HK, with it's old fashioned anglicisms like an impartial legal system, & the Rule of Law. When Money talks, Politics walks.
  
  
  
• Investment links between Taiwan & China are already huge- although it is mostly one way, proceeding from Taiwan. Taiwanese were early FDI investors there, assisted no doubt by their Chinese ethnicity, culture & language.
  
  
  
• As China grows, so inevitably does it's international & regional clout. As the US recedes into it's shell, so does it's clout also- at the UN/ international community, but also economically. China is already a far bigger investor in the region than the US. They are even going to manufacture arnaments in Thailand- could you imagine that ever happening in the old, rapidly fading post WW2 unipolar world order?
  
  
• Unless something has drastically changed, the Taiwanese Do consider themselves Chinese- in fact they consider themselves the Real Chinese. Mainland China, you see, had it's traditional culture and traditions bastardised by the Cultural revolution, and other Maoism's (the number of times I heard that in Taiwan).
  
• But lets face it, China has changed a lot since Mao, and so has the World.
  
• Taiwan also hosts the worlds greatest collection of culturally significant Chinese antiquities & treasures, in the National museum, Taipei- a much underrated attraction, within a nation that is also a much underrated tourist attraction. Plundered by the retreating Nationalists- sure, Mao kept the buildings, but Chiang Kai Shek stole the family silver. Such things can make convenient pretexts, ie excuses, for ratcheting up the action when the time is considered right.
  
• Time, and geopolitical trends, quite obviously favor the Chinese in this regard. Surely that is obvious?

So my long term prognosis, I am afraid, does not favor Taiwan remaining independent from mainland China- although I doubt this will happen during the course of my lifetime, or immediately beyond. Taiwan would do well to arm itself, and not just rely on an aging 'Big Brother' to protect & guarantee it's territorial integrity- otherwise, it will be in a very weakened position to strike the best possible deal, whenever the time may come.

Perhaps HK and the SEZ relationship it has with the PRC might provide a reasonably enlightened model, looking toward the long term. But still carry a big stick, Taiwan. Otherwise you'll likely end up more like Tibet at the negotiating table.

Since being a student in China years ago I've heard every sticky shade of hype about China, and what many fail to appreciate is the bombast they project externally with all their imperialistic schemes and transparent machinations; is that they are so very vulnerable to losing control within their own system and imploding. The state is a like fat man with little wobbly head, defecating down it's leg and vomiting over it's infinite chins as it's distended bulbous hulk flops and oozes out of it's trousers and strains at every seam. They can play toy soldiers all they want, but China would collapse very quickly in a war with it's biggest customer, and despite all the gobshittery it indulges in, it shows little sign of any kind of fitness programme - it desperately needs expertise from the west to save it from internal financial turmoil, as it's own burgeoning middle class is culturally conditioned to not spend, but to save - they are dependent on the rent they yield from foreign debt, and dependent on the meals on wheels from neighbouring states, and dependent on selling shit to "Taiwan"'s allies. The UK should never have handed over HK island, which was handed over by treaty, not leased in any way; China is a fat needy panda, not a fearsome bear; letting them shit in the Champa sea is a bad idea.

^It appears I have awakened a sleeping giant. Maybe your post Chinese concubine can some offer manual or medicinal support more often.

Originally Posted by CaptainNemo

Since being a student in China years ago I've heard every sticky shade of hype about China, and what many fail to appreciate is the bombast they project externally with all their imperialistic schemes and transparent machinations; is that they are so very vulnerable to losing control within their own system and imploding. The state is a like fat man with little wobbly head, defecating down it's leg and vomiting over it's infinite chins as it's distended bulbous hulk flops and oozes out of it's trousers and strains at every seam. They can play toy soldiers all they want, but China would collapse very quickly in a war with it's biggest customer, and despite all the gobshittery it indulges in, it shows little sign of any kind of fitness programme - it desperately needs expertise from the west to save it from internal financial turmoil, as it's own burgeoning middle class is culturally conditioned to not spend, but to save - they are dependent on the rent they yield from foreign debt, and dependent on the meals on wheels from neighbouring states, and dependent on selling shit to "Taiwan"'s allies. The UK should never have handed over HK island, which was handed over by treaty, not leased in any way; China is a fat needy panda, not a fearsome bear; letting them shit in the Champa sea is a bad idea.

Nemo is correct in the above.

The Mainland Chinese are full of bombast and hyperbole. In this regard they have they have the same mentality as North Korea. And they have been doing it for a long time.

I lived in Taiwan for almost 3 years and Taiwanese are not like this at all. They are much more level-headed but do fear the Mainland. From what I have read about old China, Taiwanese are much like people in the Mainland would have been before the Communist Revolution. Lovely people....soft-hearted and well-educated. Bookshops in Taipei used to have sections where people could just sit and read the latest books, and they didn't mind that the top copy got dog-eared.

Originally Posted by CaptainNemo

The state is a like fat man with little wobbly head, defecating down it's leg and vomiting over it's infinite chins as it's distended bulbous hulk flops and oozes out of it's trousers and strains at every seam.

Although it may be correct, it does not diminish the importance of the world'd strongest economy. The history of the many turmoils and occupations by countries from Asia, Europe and America - and their own "cultural revolution", have not make a good background for a new start.

Recently I have read a book Jade by Pat Barr, showing quite unknown (to me) difficulties of the rural life of that enormous country some 150 years ago when the thousands of warlords ruled almost the country, each for his own. And the kind influence of the "falangs" ignorant of the Chinese culture and the horrible genocide-like rule by Japanese and Koreans. The "falangs" always claimed how they want to develop the primitive Chinese life.

As of the Taiwan/Formosa history, over centuries they mostly had been under the Qing dynasty rule. And the evacuation of Kuomintang army led by Chiang Kai Schek to Formosa after the WW2 under the "noble-minded" enormous support of USA is also not something what everybody would approve and like.


The island of Taiwan, formerly known as Formosa, was inhabited by aborigines before the 17th century, when Dutch and Spanish colonies opened the island to mass Han immigration. After a brief rule by the Kingdom of Tungning, the island was annexed by the Qing dynasty, the last dynasty of China. The Qing ceded Taiwan to Japan in 1895 after the Sino-Japanese War. While Taiwan was under Japanese rule, the Republic of China (ROC) was established on the mainland in 1912 after the fall of the Qing dynasty. Following the Japanese surrender to the Allies in 1945, the ROC took control of Taiwan. However, the resumption of the Chinese Civil War led to the ROC's loss of the mainland to the Communists, and the flight of the ROC government to Taiwan in 1949. Although the ROC continued to claim to be the legitimate government of China, its effective jurisdiction has, since the loss of Hainan in 1950, been limited to Taiwan and its surrounding islands, with the main island making up 99% of its de facto territory.


And isn't this a joke (of UN seriousness)?
As a founding member of the United Nations, the ROC continued to represent China at the United Nations until 1971, when the PRC assumed China's seat, causing the ROC to lose its UN membership.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan

And if the wiki says:
Taiwan is the 22nd-largest economy in the world, and its high-tech industry plays a key role in the global economy.

In my brief business visits to Taiwan I had learned that many Taiwanese could not show me their business but they like to make the business just like a trader using their good connection with manufacturing cousins in mainland China and so their turnover (of Taiwan) is obviously added to their account (of Taiwan).

And before the mainland China business was recognized and officially accepted by the world the Taiwanese made clever tricks with import/export documentation to show the Country of Origin (CO) not as mainland China - often with help of corrupt bureaucracy of Thai officials.

Have you read Wild Swans by Jung Chang ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wild_Swans

I tried to read it but found the parts I leafed through to be too distressing. Awful things happened in the Cultural Revolution...

^
Jade: A Novel of China
by Pat Barr

Spanning forty of the nineteenth century's most turbulent years, JADE captures the rich variety of the Celestial Empire: the harsh formality and exotic sensuality of a traditional Chinese household, the bleak puritanism of missionary outposts, the narrow-minded bigotry and social frivolity of the Westernized treaty ports, the pioneer's rewards and risks of trading up the Yangtze, the idealistic optimism of the young intellectuals of Peking. Amid it all are the signs of an ancient and regal civilization crumbling around the edges, soon to be swept away forever by the tides of history.

An epic story teeming with unforgettable characters and vivid locales, set against one of the most thrilling periods of history, JADE ranks with the great panoramic sagas of recent years, from THE FAR PAVILIONS to NOBLE HOUSE, DYNASTY, and SPRING MOON. Invariably exciting, and moving as only the best fiction can be, JADE is a novel to read and remember, a story whose power and charm will linger with its readers long after its last page is turned.

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/825218.Jade

The illusive business of the East is the business of the West.

....or so they imagine such interests to be - part and parcel of Occidental fantasy.

Originally Posted by Latindancer

Taiwanese are much like people in the Mainland would have been before the Communist Revolution

Abused by the western powers, what a way to live.

Originally Posted by Klondyke

just like a trader using their good connection with manufacturing cousins in mainland China and so their turnover (of Taiwan) is obviously added to their account (of Taiwan).

Many a budding western businessman has a similar business model today.

Originally Posted by Latindancer

Awful things happened in the Cultural Revolution...

Many prior to it as well. Luckily many Chinese have improved their lives since it occurred. Millions lifted out of poverty, care to name similar countries track records?

Mainland protests against 'Taiwan independence'

BEIJING - A Chinese mainland spokesperson on Wednesday reiterated firm opposition against "Taiwan independence," reiterating the necessity of safeguarding national sovereignty and territorial integrity.


"We firmly oppose any attempts of 'Taiwan independence' including facilitating such attempts through revising laws," said Ma Xiaoguang, spokesperson with the Taiwan Affairs Office of the State Council, at a press conference.


When asked about whether the recent navy drill around the island is a warning against "Taiwan independence," Ma said the mainland has the will, confidence and ability to defeat any forms of "Taiwan independence" and safeguard national sovereignty and territorial integrity.


"We will not tolerate any 'Taiwan independence' force harming cross-Straits peace and stability or obstructing national rejuvenation," he said.


Commenting on the recent accusation by Taiwan leader Tsai Ing-wen that the mainland tried to change the lifestyle of Taiwan's people and suppress the island's international space, Ma said Tsai's remarks are groundless and aimed at creating hostility and confrontation between the two sides of the Taiwan Straits.


"We all knew that the Taiwan administration undermined the favorable and peaceful development of cross-Straits relations," he said. "We have always respected the social system and lifestyle of Taiwan compatriots and would like to share development opportunities with them."


The mainland has adopted a number of preferential policies to facilitate Taiwan compatriots to study, work and live in the mainland, he stressed.



Mainland protests against 'Taiwan independence' - Chinadaily.com.cn

Originally Posted by OhOh

Link?

idiot