Thread: China's Mass Detention of Xinjiang's Ethnic Minorities Shows No Sign of Let-up

Originally Posted by OhOh

You need to stop expanding the topic. We, you and I, were discussing your claim of "a million people locked up". You have continued with the addition of some "deported" group, a redefinition of the topic under discussion.

Fuck off you lying little turd.

I specifically said

Yeah, if you could just remind me where Europe or America has a million people locked up in "re-education camps"....

in response to which you go off on one of your imbecilic little tangents by posting pictures of prisons and refugee camps.

A pathetic attempt at trying to change the subject and misquoting me at the same time.

And then a feeble attempt at trying to blame me for pointing out your fucking idiocy.

Moronic even by your usual witless standards.

As currently nobody, has defined or produced any evidence of what a "re-education camp", is one can assume what one wishes.

Care to answer clearly, the three accusations you made which I listed in post #151?

Clarity is the key 'arry. Not your pathetic whinges reminiscent of a 6 year old girl.

Originally Posted by OhOh

Clarity is the key

...keep striving...

Originally Posted by uncle junior

if you look for it

...I don't think looking for opposing opinions is his strong point...

Originally Posted by OhOh

As currently nobody, has defined or produced any evidence of what a "re-education camp", is one can assume what one wishes.

Care to answer clearly, the three accusations you made which I listed in post #151?

Clarity is the key 'arry. Not your pathetic whinges reminiscent of a 6 year old girl.

Typical HoHo bullshit:

"I didn't see the evidence or I don't believe it, therefore there is no evidence".

You utter fucking muppet, you really are just a rather shabby little one trick pony.

Originally Posted by tomcat

...I don't think looking for opposing opinions is his strong point...

Areslicking the chinkies is his strong point. That and fantasising about Putin.

He really is a spineless sycophant.

Who are the Uyghurs and what is happening in Xinjiang?

• Uyghurs are a Muslim Turkic-speaking ethnic minority in China. Uyghurs (also spelled Uighur — either way, pronounced WEE-gur) — about 10 million people — live mostly in Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region (XUAR), the farthest west and most heavily Muslim jurisdiction under Beijing’s control. The total population of Xinjiang is around 22 million.
• After ethnic riots in Xinjiang’s capital, Urumqi, in 2009 that left nearly 200 people dead — and following Uyghur-connected terrorist attacks in Beijing in 2013 and Kunming and Urumqi in 2014 — extreme measures have been taken to lock down Xinjiang and restrict the mobility and speech of the Uyghur population.
• Xinjiang is now a totalitarian police state of historic proportions — it is widely cited as one of the most heavily policed places in the world today. Public security budgets have skyrocketed and futuristic surveillance systems have been pioneered in the region. As a result, over 20 percent of all criminal arrests in China happens in Xinjiang, despite the fact that the region contains only 1.5 percent of the country’s population.
• The official justification for such extreme measures is “counterterrorism” and “social stability.” But human rights groups have long argued that the level of repression is excessive, counterproductive, and a human rights violation, as it effectively censures all expressions of Uyghur culture, even normal religious and linguistic traditions.
• Alarming reports of a mass internment system have come out in the past year. Adrian Zenz, a researcher at the European School of Culture and Theology in Korntal, Germany, revealed the scope of the internment campaign and documented that construction of the camps began in earnest in March 2017.
• In the camps, officials seek to brainwash prisoners to disavow Islam and pledge loyalty to the Communist Party, and torture those who refuse, eyewitnesses have said.
• Arbitrary detentions without charge or trial are the norm for prisoners in these camps, and ethnically Kazakh Muslims have been “disappeared” in large numbers along with Uyghurs. Common “crimes” are “viewing foreign websites, taking phone calls from relatives abroad, praying regularly or growing a beard.” The widespread use of arbitrary detention is also being used as a tool to force Uyghurs abroad into silence.
• Up to a million Muslims have been put in the camps in Xinjiang, according to “many numerous and credible reports,” a United Nations panel said in early August 2018. The panel also called Xinjiang a “no rights zone” based on the reported mass internment program.
• China has specifically denied that “re-education” camps exist, but this is semantics: Evidence continues to build of a network of centers for “transformation through education” (教育转化 jiàoyù zhuǎnhuà) or “counter-extremism education” (去极端化教育 qù jíduān huà jiàoyù) holding many hundreds of thousands of Uyghurs and other Muslims in Xinjiang.
• “An entire culture is being criminalized,” scholars like Rian Thum are saying. Another scholar, James Millward, comments: “In Xinjiang, the definition of extremism has expanded so far as to incorporate virtually anything you do as a Muslim.”

https://supchina.com/2018/08/22/xinj...llion-muslims/

Originally Posted by uncle junior

Plenty of info on the web

Plenty of unfounded, unproven "expert" opinions. As yet not factual proven investigations from a competent unbiased source.

Originally Posted by tomcat

I don't think looking for opposing opinions is his strong point...

I do post many items regarding Western China unfortunately the content of them don't match some posters allegations. Many here post opposing positions here, there are examples in the thread.

Do you post anything on western empires and their vassals doing far worse crimes on innocent men, women and children around the world last century, the one before, today and tomorrow. No. Pick up the baton, no. Posting irrelivent nonsense, yes. You are a winner, a real hero, have a green.

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

After ethnic riots in Xinjiang’s capital, Urumqi, in 2009 that left nearly 200 people dead — and following Uyghur-connected terrorist attacks in Beijing in 2013 and Kunming and Urumqi in 2014 — extreme measures have been taken to lock down Xinjiang and restrict the mobility and speech of the Uyghur population.

Appears to have been some violent terrorist uprisings similar to many around the world.

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

The official justification for such extreme measures is “counterterrorism” and “social stability.” But human rights groups have long argued that the level of repression is excessive, counterproductive, and a human rights violation,

A security clamp down which some believe excessive.

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Arbitrary detentions without charge or trial are the norm for prisoners in these camps, and ethnically Kazakh Muslims have been “disappeared” in large numbers along with Uyghurs. Common “crimes” are “viewing foreign websites, taking phone calls from relatives abroad, praying regularly or growing a beard.”

Similar "courts" and detention without trial camps appear to exist in western countries. Allegedly to be shut down but still open detaining many for decades and subjecting them to illegal torture.

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Up to a million Muslims have been put in the camps in Xinjiang, according to “many numerous and credible reports,” a United Nations panel said in early August 2018.

Fake number suggested, but not proven, by one of eighteen members of, not an official, UN panel.

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

“An entire culture is being criminalized,” scholars like Rian Thum are saying. Another scholar, James Millward, comments: “In Xinjiang, the definition of extremism has expanded so far as to incorporate virtually anything you do as a Muslim.”

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Uyghurs are a Muslim Turkic-speaking ethnic minority in China. Uyghurs (also spelled Uighur — either way, pronounced WEE-gur) — about 10 million people — live mostly in Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region (XUAR),

Unproven hearsay. Allegedly the entire culture (10m) of which if we believe an unproven claim of "up to 1m" so maybe 3 to 10%, hardly "an entire culture".

Students of all ages are being given, as some claim, a free of costs - accommodation, food, lecture fees .......University course in Citizenship.

"One Uyghur man told the FT that they are “political education centres,” which are “just like a university, only you cannot leave.”"

https://supchina.com/2018/08/22/xinj...llion-muslims/

Have you looked at how Europe is stripping it's religious groups of the beliefs and customs lately?

This is your western inspired, standard war on terror, as started by two planes hitting buildings "unopposed" in ameristan. Subsequently violent wars have started in many countries. None of which have finished but in all creating millions of refugees in camps, call it what you find most appropriate, re-education, detention, concentration, as you have posted "it's an interpretation". Millions have been shot, tortured, maimed, made homeless, forcibly detained, exploited ........ but the western gravy train to the untouchables continues.

Clean clothes, food, accommodation and reciting a few slogans, whilst sitting on chairs, for 2 or 3 months and then a free bus ride home. Many Thais, men, women and children, go off to the local Wat for similar reasons. Should we consider them similarly?

It does not compare with the throat slitting, gassing, raping, slaughter, wrought onto innocent civilians by others and vassals for profit around the world.

Clarity instead of unproven innuendo. But what's new with you guys and gal posting your "news stories".

Western empires good, China and it's partners bad. I'm inclined to suggest it's racism at it's worst.

Al Jazeera has a good report on the Uyghurs and shows why China is so determined to hold control of Xinjiang.

^China is exceptional because it's press is government controlled! Nowhere else is this the case, care to name these "free" countries?

#hoho.ffs

Originally Posted by OhOh

Nowhere else is this the case, care to name these "free" countries?

...diversion alert!...

Originally Posted by tomcat

...diversion alert!...

Lazy retort from a poster with nothing to say.

Looking in the mirror does cause mental anguish to some, eh.

Originally Posted by Neo

Xingjian Uigher enjoying life, free to practice their religion, celebrate their culture, pursue their own business

Ask around, I have a reputation of amply illustrating and highlighting Chinas achievements. Unfortunately my efforts are awarded with accusations of arse licking and parroting propaganda. Rubbishing my posts is not attempted, blind obedience to unproven allegations is what's accepted by many here as knowledge. Cowards or laziness?

Originally Posted by OhOh

Cowards or laziness?

...not the only two options: common sense and no desire to divert/derail threads come to mind as alternatives...try one...

...^there! that wasn't so hard, was it?......

Originally Posted by tomcat

...not the only two options: common sense and no desire to divert/derail threads come to mind as alternatives...try one...

I'm afraid the forum chinky arselicker refuses to accept anything other than state controlled media.

And if that fails, off he goes a-waffling.

Originally Posted by OhOh

Ask around, I have a reputation of amply illustrating and highlighting Chinas achievements. Unfortunately my efforts are awarded with accusations of arse licking and parroting propaganda. Rubbishing my posts is not attempted, blind obedience to unproven allegations is what's accepted by many here as knowledge. Cowards or laziness?

Which doesn't do anything to answer my request.

Unproven doesn't mean it didn't happen.
Proven, that a peer concensus agrees that an action happened.

The overwhelming opinion at this time, based on news reports and first hand accounts, is that there is inhumane repression going on in the Xinjiang region, you can keep saying unproven until you are blue in the face, but unless you have a counter argument showing the opposite is true, based on news reports and first hand accounts then really you are simply talking out of your arse.

Originally Posted by Neo

you are simply talking out of your arse

....*cough*...this is the obvious conclusion...

Originally Posted by Neo

Which doesn't do anything to answer my request.

Unproven doesn't mean it didn't happen.
Proven, that a peer concensus agrees that an action happened.

The overwhelming opinion at this time, based on news reports and first hand accounts, is that there is inhumane repression going on in the Xinjiang region, you can keep saying unproven until you are blue in the face, but unless you have a counter argument showing the opposite is true, based on news reports and first hand accounts then really you are simply talking out of your arse.

The reply will probably begin "But what about" and then drone on about how bad Hitler was or something.

^^ makes a change from droning on about Putin I guess

Let’s get Putin involved!




Interview: ‘We Are Left Wandering in Fear in a Foreign Land’

Nebi Hajim and Nur Muhammet are Uyghurs from northwest China’s Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region (XUAR) who have conducted business in Russia’s capital Moscow for many years. Uyghurs working overseas have regularly experienced problems renewing their travel documents and have often been forced to return home since April 2017, when Chinese authorities began jailing or detaining members of the ethnic group accused of harboring “strong religious views” and “politically incorrect” ideas in political “re-education camps” throughout the XUAR. In many cases, those who travel back to the region are taken into custody within minutes of their arrival. Hajim and Muhammet recently spoke to RFA about how their situation in Moscow has changed amid China’s policy of mass arrests in the XUAR and the dangers of working abroad as a Uyghur with a Chinese passport.

RFA: What kind of difficulties are Uyghur businessmen facing in Russia these days?

Hajim: Currently we are unable to renew our passports, and the [Uyghur businessmen] in Central Asia are also facing the same situation. Many people’s passports have expired because the Chinese Embassy refused to renew them. [Chinese authorities] are asking people to return to the country. But if we choose to return home, we will be locked up in a prison straightaway and left to rot there.

RFA: We have heard that there used to be a significant number of Uyghurs involved in business in Moscow—many from Atush (in Chinese, Atushi) city [in the XUAR’s Kizilsu Kirghiz (Kezileisu Keerkezi) Autonomous Prefecture]—but the number has dwindled. Do you know what happened to those who returned home?

Hajim: All those who returned were arrested on arrival and taken to re-education camps or prison. There was a man named Memet Hajim who went back and was arrested at the airport on arrival. He also had a young cousin, his brother’s son, who was 19 or 20 years old. He went back in January this year and was also taken away straight from the airport on landing … This is a common scenario at the moment.

RFA: So if your passport has expired, will it be difficult for you to travel and do business?

Hajim: Yes, that is correct. We can’t travel anywhere … We are in an extremely difficult situation, as we Uyghurs now have no home to return to, no one to rely on, and we are left wandering in fear in a foreign land. Those whose passports have expired must hide them and tell the police lies when being approached and checked—it is impossible to travel because of the risk. That is how we manage each day. We Uyghurs are in a very vulnerable situation.

RFA: How many [Uyghur] businessmen are currently in Moscow?

Hajim: I think there may be around 10. There used to be 30 or 40 of us, and also quite a lot of students. But now not many are left. [The Chinese authorities] have created such an environment of fear everywhere. People are either being taken away or “disappeared.”

RFA: Why are people returning home?

Hajim: Memet Hajim’s brother said he had people who would “protect” his son when he returned, but despite arriving at the airport with a Uyghur policeman, his son was arrested on landing and taken away. Memet Hajim said that as his family was never involved in inappropriate matters, they should be fine, but he was also arrested and taken away. There are many people who have been arrested upon landing at the airport after arriving from [Kyrgyzstan’s capital] Bishkek and [Kazakhstan’s largest metropolis] Almaty.

RFA: Do you know any cases in which the family members, parents, and siblings have been taken hostage by the authorities as a way of pressuring and forcing people living abroad to return to China?

Hajim: There are plenty of such cases—most of our family members are locked up. Many households have no one left. Many houses are padlocked from the outside.

RFA: This must have badly affected your business.

Hajim: Yes, every aspect of our lives has been ruined. Our family, children, finances—everything! I don’t know if this is a test from Allah, but we are being bullied and terribly mistreated.

‘We miscalculated’

RFA: We have heard that there are many Uyghur businessmen who have been arrested on their return to the XUAR. Do you know any of their names?

Muhammet: There was a man called Muhemmetjan who was interned. As far as I know, there are at least three businessmen who were arrested at the airport on arrival after flying from Moscow.

RFA: What are their names?

Muhammet: Muhemet Ablet, Ismetulla Ablimit, who is 24 or 25, and Yusupjan, who is 19 years old.

RFA: They were all arrested at the airport?

Muhammet: Yes. Having learned that Muhemet Ablet and Yusupjan were arrested on arrival at the Urumqi airport, Ismetulla Ablimit took a flight from Moscow to Beijing, as we thought that might be the safest option for him. However, he was also arrested on arrival at the Beijing airport.

RFA: What about the 19-year-old man?

Muhammet: He is Muhemet Ablet’s nephew. We tried to stop him from going back, as we knew from previous cases that he was at risk of being incarcerated, but his father insisted that if he didn’t return it would cause serious consequences for his other children, who are attending school.

RFA: Did he fly to Urumqi?

Muhammet: Yes, and he was arrested on landing. His father was also arrested and was taken to Atush.

RFA: Do you know any other people who were arrested after returning home?

Muhammet: I heard there have been many similar cases [of people returning from] elsewhere, but I only know the names of those who returned from Moscow. There aren’t many Uyghur businessmen here now … Almost everybody’s passports have expired, but when they go to the Chinese Embassy for an extension, they are refused and told they must return to China to “sort things out.” In other words, we must return so they can incarcerate us.

These are very complicated matters—[the Chinese government’s] policies towards our people have always been treacherous.

However, we miscalculated in thinking that we [businessmen] wouldn’t be their target. Now they have exposed their true intentions, and they are arresting people indiscriminately, whether they are loyal agents [of the ruling Communist Party] or traitors.


https://www.rfa.org/english/news/uyg...018171953.html