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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wilsonandson View Post
    While most of them know about it and try to hide their profession as good as possible some arenít even aware that they break Thai law....

    What means illegally working in Thailand?

    Thailand they donít have a work permit at all, the labor law can be broken by a number of different reasons even if there is one:

    You are even supposed to keep the work permit with you at your workplace and in case the officials check and you have it on the desk of your apartment Ė you can be fined.

    .., knowing that you donít have a work permit and tells them the story and where you work so they can check and get you a problem. I do have a work permit and have never been asked by some official to show it to him Ė but I havenít got an issue with anyone neither.

    While penalties for illegally working in Thailand can be severe I have heard of a lot of cases where especially teachers that have been checked and identified as illegally working they often just handed the officer some cash

    The Fines and Penalties for Illegally Working in Thailand

    Foreigners who do not have their Work Permit with them while working can be punished by imprisonment of a term not exceeding three months or a fine of up to 10,000 Baht.

    Just one question.

    Why don't you edit your spunk (given the nature of the topic)?

  2. #52
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  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wilsonandson View Post
    Only if they're aware of the fact.
    And almost impossible to prove.


    ....that is, unless you're the type that exist with the ever present looking over shoulder notions -

    Anxious paranoia setting in, Wilson?

  4. #54
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    SHADY BUSINESS: FOREIGNERS STUCK IN THE VISA TRAP

    2015-May-8 08:53 Shenzhen Daily

    WILLIAM had just begun teaching a class in a small training center in Shekou when two undercover police officers approached him.

    “This guy came up and asked me to leave the room. He told me he was with the police and I had to follow him to the police station,” said William, 32, who is from outside Toronto, Canada. In front of nine students and their parents, William packed up his laptop before following the officers to the station where he was held for 17 hours. After an immigration officer took his passport, he was released.

    When William first came to China in 2012, he never expected to end up sitting in a police station, but like many teachers in Shenzhen, William had been teaching on a business visa instead of the legally required residence permit, sometimes called a work permit or Z visa. His first employer had promised him the proper visa but never delivered.

    “They promised that after two months they could get me a work visa,” said William, explaining that he asked his first Chinese employer over several months to upgrade his visa to a legal work visa. “They just kept up making up excuses.”

    William’s story may be the norm in Shenzhen, where an estimated 70 to 80 percent of foreign teachers are working on the wrong visa, according to three different people who are familiar with the situation and declined to be named.

    “It’s hard to find a good training center that will give you a proper work visa,” said William.

    Shenzhen’s proximity to Hong Kong, the shady English training industry and foreigners’ general ignorance of Chinese law have combined to create a private teaching industry, where teaching on the wrong visa is normal and encouraged.

    To teach legally in China, a foreigner needs to hold a residence permit, must have a bachelor’s degree and have two years or more teaching related experience.

    The process to get a residence permit can be done by a training center that has been approved by a district’s Municipal Education Bureau, according to a spokesperson from Shenzhen’s Municipal Human Resources and Social Security Administration.

    The approval process can be complex and time consuming. Training centers must operate for at least one year before they get approved to employ foreign teachers. For most small training centers, where a foreign teacher is the main way they attract students, this isn’t possible.

    “They would need to have a proper company, a registration address for the school; it has to be a legal entity,” said Fabian Knopf, a Senior Associate at Dezan Shira, a consulting group specializing in foreign business in Asia.

    This hasn’t stopped training centers in Shenzhen from employing foreigners off the books.

    By not officially employing foreigners, training centers get the benefit of the increased business and prestige a foreign employee brings without the legal costs.

    “They can avoid paying taxes,” said Knopf. “It’s all about reducing costs.”

    Unlike foreigners holding a residence permit, foreigners holding a business visa are required to leave the country regularly. In a city further away from Hong Kong, this would discourage remaining in China for work, but at Shenzhen’s Futian Checkpoint a foreigner can “enter and exit” by passing into the Hong Kong territory in as little as thirty minutes.

    Unscrupulous training center owners have seized on this. After contacting four employers who posted advertisements looking for foreign teachers on a popular Shenzhen job website, every single employer said that working on a business visa was legal or “not a problem.”

    “It’s misinformation; it’s ignorance... I don’t think anyone is out to break the law,” said Knopf. “[The teachers] don’t understand it’s illegal.”

    In fact, many new teachers are lured to Shenzhen by agencies, middlemen and training centers that lie to foreigners about the laws in Shenzhen.

    “They told me that they were going to put me on a work visa when I got to China,” said Tom, a 25-year-old university graduate from Bristol, England. “Once I got here, that wasn’t the case. I mentioned it and they told me it was perfectly legal.

    Tom found his job through a Shenzhen-based job agency that had a phone number in the UK and a Facebook page advertising teaching jobs in China. After arriving in China, Tom found himself being contracted out to private training centers for a promised monthly paycheck of 4000 yuan ($US660).

    Training centers that illegally employ foreigners can face a fine of up to 100,000 yuan, and foreigners caught teaching on a business visa face a fine of up to 10,000 yuan, along with possible detention and deportation. (source???according to Chinese law or local law? or who said this?)

    Like William, if a foreigner is involved in a legal case they can have their passport taken until the legal case is resolved.

    Since the raid about two weeks ago, William hasn’t received his passport back and has been told not to leave Shenzhen.

    “The person who owns the training center hid the money from the parents,” William said. “I am stuck in the middle of an investigation and they can’t give me my passport until they close it… I’m still trying to get a hold of the guy to see what’s going on.”


    </title> </head> </html> <META name="contentid" content=" 11568937"></META> <META name="publishdate" content=" 2015-05-08"></META> <META name="author" content=" ???"></META> <META name="source" content=""></META> <META name="reporter" content=""></ME

  5. #55
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    Some more information on rules and regulations in China concerning teaching.

    This is a list of the recent changes that have taken place:

    July 17th, 2016

    This is the most recent update to the visa regulations.

    As of mid-July 2016, the new requirements are:

    1. Applicants must submit all original documents including: Working Reference Letter and University Diploma

    2. Employers must be verified before they can apply for work permits for foreign employees (as stated above)

    3. Employers and their company must have a registered business office or address

    4. There will be an increased supervision towards Business/Tourist visa holders who are illegally working in Shanghai.

    Previously applicants could bring their Scanned copies of the Working Reference Letter and University Diploma are no longer accepted. Now, the originals must be turned in at the time of application. Applicants should take note and bring these documents with them from their home country. There are many young expats in Shanghai who choose to work while on a business/tourist/student visa. These new changes are designed to root out those who choose to work in Shanghai without a proper visa.
    https://ins-globalconsulting.com/chinas-new-work-visa/

  6. #56
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    Found some more interesting comments.

    “A complaint you often hear from teachers is the school does not pay, at least not for all the expenses. And it can be very expensive,” said Phil Williams, who runs the popular teaching site ajarn.com. “They have to find train tickets, accommodation. When you’re only earning 30,000 baht (US$943) a month, it’s a lot of money out of your paycheck. Teachers have always complained about having to pay for visa runs themselves, but what’s important now is that you’ve got the risk of not getting back.”

    Working on a tourist visa or with a visa exemption stamp is illegal. But it is also the only option for teachers who do not have a bachelor’s degree, a prerequisite for obtaining a work permit to teach English. Although some say it’s for the best that those teachers without degrees be rooted out, Barrow disagrees.

    “That’s not necessarily fair,” Barrow said. “Just because you don’t have a bachelor’s degree doesn’t mean you can’t be a good teacher. We’ve got people who’ve been in Thailand teaching for five or 10 years. I feel sorry for them, [the restriction is] not necessarily fair. Some of them are experienced and are good teachers.”

    Read more at https://asiancorrespondent.com/2014/...BSx5jkt87W5.99

  7. #57
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    Faark I just came back from china as a tourist. Watery beer. Shit food and billions of assholes. It would of made my day getting deported from there

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wilsonandson View Post
    To teach legally in China, a foreigner needs to hold a residence permit, must have a bachelorís degree and have two years or more teaching related experience.
    Looks like China is not an option for you, Wilsonandson.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by beerlaodrinker View Post
    Faark I just came back from china as a tourist. Watery beer. Shit food and billions of assholes. It would of made my day getting deported from there

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by beerlaodrinker View Post
    Faark I just came back from china as a tourist. Watery beer. Shit food and billions of assholes. It would of made my day getting deported from there
    Well this is the point of the whole thread. It seems that South East Asian countries including China have similar rules and regulations. I am currently deciding where to go next. This was why I posted the OP deported from China news article. I want to see if the grass is greener on the other side. I also thought it might be useful to anyone else who wanted to know what the rules and regulations are and what the dangers of teaching illegally can bring.

    I mentioned that I have a tourist visa and a Tefl. So I know that I shall have the lowest paid job and the highest amount of risk if caught working illegally.

    The only other options are to study and gain a 4 year degree. I'm to old to go back to school. Or go home and give up on the teaching lark.

    Well, it would be nice to hear your advice or other stories, articles on teaching. I'm thinking China isn't going to be that tough on all these rules. I'm sure I can get a job tefling there. I think these news articles are half made up to scare off would be teflers like me.

    Well, thanks anyway. Oh and no nasty comments please. Whether you're Albert Einstein or Fred Flintstone doesn't matter. We all take a sh1t in the morning.

  11. #61
    Sauerkraut stroller's Avatar
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    To start with, you could take some quick & easy google geography lessons and learn that China isn't part of South East Asia.

    Then proceed with a few more minutes of googling to find out what exactly the regulations in S.E. Asian countries regarding teaching English are.

    Maybe there even are a few youtube video blogs on the subject.

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by stroller View Post
    To start with, you could take some quick & easy google geography lessons and learn that China isn't part of South East Asia.

    Then proceed with a few more minutes of googling to find out what exactly the regulations in S.E. Asian countries regarding teaching English are.

    Maybe there even are a few youtube video blogs on the subject.
    I've got a degree in googling.

  13. #63
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    billions of assholes
    I concur.

    How is it that such a large percentage of a nation are complete and utter kunts (men and women alike). And people quickly realize that when the either travel there, or have the misfortune of bumping into (more like getting bashed by) the average screeching, spitting, gawking, mouthbreathing, nosedrilling mainland Chinese tourist.

    That massive shitehole is doomed.

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wilsonandson
    The only other options are to study and gain a 4 year degree. I'm to old to go back to school.
    About sums it up unless you teach in some low paying rural school. Good luck.

    "Officially, a bachelor’s degree or higher is required for teaching anywhere in Southeast Asia. Unofficially, the requirement may be waived by schools in rural areas where demand is high and teacher recruitment is difficult. Teaching in a remote village can be rewarding but probably won’t pay well. Many places will offer a room or house, utilities, and food as compensation but can’t afford to pay a salary."

    Fund Your New Life Overseas Teaching English In Southeast Asia | HuffPost

    Even if in a rural school you will need a proper visa and work permit.
    Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norton View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilsonandson
    The only other options are to study and gain a 4 year degree. I'm to old to go back to school.
    About sums it up unless you teach in some low paying rural school. Good luck.

    "Officially, a bachelorís degree or higher is required for teaching anywhere in Southeast Asia. Unofficially, the requirement may be waived by schools in rural areas where demand is high and teacher recruitment is difficult. Teaching in a remote village can be rewarding but probably wonít pay well. Many places will offer a room or house, utilities, and food as compensation but canít afford to pay a salary."

    Fund Your New Life Overseas Teaching English In Southeast Asia | HuffPost

    Even if in a rural school you will need a proper visa and work permit.
    I beg to differ also, the videos of the guy no joke Harold in Camdodia claim that you can get a job anywhere teaching if your a native English teacher with just a Tefl.

    In China you can aquire a work permit to teach if you have teaching experience and a high school diploma.

    And after reading some threads on teaching in Myanmar, they will allow you to teach there too if your a NES with a high school diploma and 2 years experience teaching.

    It seems like the world is still your oyster, you just have to try, try again and eventually you'll find a job teaching on a TEFL.

    The only worry I percieve as a threat to this Tefl bubble is idiots like Trump, Far right parties gaining popularity in Europe and Brexits anti-immigration stance. This closing the door to immigrants policy could tighten the already strict laws of those like me trying to make a living teaching in a foreign country.

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wilsonandson View Post
    The only worry I percieve as a threat to this Tefl bubble is idiots like Trump, Far right parties gaining popularity in Europe and Brexits anti-immigration stance. This closing the door to immigrants policy could tighten the already strict laws of those like me trying to make a living teaching in a foreign country.
    In what way, Wilsonandson?

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wilsonandson View Post
    The only other options are to study and gain a 4 year degree. I'm to old to go back to school. Or go home and give up on the teaching lark.
    So get an accredited one online ya thick....tw...

    Quote Originally Posted by Wilsonandson View Post
    Oh and no nasty comments please.
    Ooops.


    The 50 Best Online Colleges for 2017 | BestColleges.com


    Honestly, the time you spend searching, posting, pasting and commenting on (mostly) useless articles - you could be reading, writing on univ. discussion boards and preparing your essay submissions...all towards a degree.

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by hick View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilsonandson View Post
    The only other options are to study and gain a 4 year degree. I'm to old to go back to school. Or go home and give up on the teaching lark.
    So get an accredited one online ya thick....tw...

    Quote Originally Posted by Wilsonandson View Post
    Oh and no nasty comments please.
    Ooops.


    The 50 Best Online Colleges for 2017 | BestColleges.com


    Honestly, the time you spend searching, posting, pasting and commenting on (mostly) useless articles - you could be reading, writing on univ. discussion boards and preparing your essay submissions...all towards a degree.
    So is there a degree course in googling?
    Oh and you can say what you want about me. It's a free country isn't it?

    I don't want to do a degree online. Waste of money and time. No I think a far better option is to have some cash on your person, ready for a bribe and a comfy pair of shoes that you can run in.

    If the sh1t hits the fan and you get deported. Then just order a new passport.

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverna View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilsonandson View Post
    The only worry I percieve as a threat to this Tefl bubble is idiots like Trump, Far right parties gaining popularity in Europe and Brexits anti-immigration stance. This closing the door to immigrants policy could tighten the already strict laws of those like me trying to make a living teaching in a foreign country.
    In what way, Wilsonandson?
    Well if the US cracks down on Thai's working in the States then the Thai immigration will follow suit and clamp down on American worker's in Thailand. Also with China and Thailand warming relationship of recent this too affects workers from the west. I wouldn't be surprised if only qualified teachers will be the only ones allowed to teach here. I'm talking about a qualified teacher with experience from schools in their home country. The type that teach at international school for hundred's of thousands of baht a month.

  20. #70
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    They have an edge over ordinary Tefler's: they now how to spell and grammar and use of apostrophe's.

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by stroller View Post
    They have an edge over ordinary Tefler's: they now how to spell and grammar and use of apostrophe's.
    I think "your" right, stroller.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wilsonandson View Post
    you can get a job anywhere teaching if your a native English teacher with just a Tefl.

    in Myanmar, they will allow you to teach there too if your a NES with a high school diploma and 2 years experience teaching.

  22. #72
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    The average Teak door poster.

    To be, or not to be: that is the question: Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, Or to take arms against a sea of troubles, And by opposing end them?



    Me

    "There's a geet walla queue at Asda, gan to Morrisons instead"
    "Howay man! We gannin' doon Morrisons to beat the queue?"
    "The bairn's ganna bubble if there's nee pop left."


    Is this what you all are implying?

  23. #73
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    Or am I percieved as Paul Calf with you as the student?


  24. #74
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    Consider yourself a definitive contrarian, huh Wilson?

    That's rich.


  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by HuangLao View Post
    Consider yourself a definitive contrarian, huh Wilson?

    That's rich.

    "Au contraire mon frŤre, oh mai oui, mon pleasure, silver plate"


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