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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Albert Shagnastier View Post
    The US is in no moral position whatsoever to tell others what to do.

    .
    But it has poured in billions to this banana republic since the 60's so it has a right to say what it thinks, unlike the Thais.

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    Albert heres a real good one for you


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  4. #79
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    [QUOTE=Albert Shagnastier;2789216]
    Quote Originally Posted by zygote1
    Which "International agreements and laws" are they then?

    No Thai has ever done this type of shit to any of their own people - LET ALONE THE PEOPLE OF ANOTHER NATION WHO WERE INNOCENT.

    Thanks for the posting of the pics, some of which were posed and others which were entered as evidence in the court martial cases against the people responsible for the abuse. And therein lies the difference. The 8 of the 9 accused were convicted and sentenced to hard labour in a prison. The Abu Ghraib case was a breakdown in military discipline and procedure. It was not state policy. This is quite different than the aftermath of the Thammasat University massacre wasn't it? Following the wrongful acts at the Iraqi prison action was taken and heads rolled. No one is ever responsible for anything in Thailand. Who was held accountable after the kids were murdered at Thammasat?

    Thailand has a long history of torture and abuse. One need only consider the treatment of the Rohingya or the massacre at the Bangkok wat in 2010. No one was ever held responsible, No justice was provided. Remamber the Bangkok Massacre of 1992? How many hundreds died or disappeared? Not much has changed since 1991 when General Sunthorn Khongsomphong, overthrew of the government of General (retired) Chatichai Choonhavan, the first elected prime minister in Thailand since 1976.

    And why do you consistently harp about the USA? It's not the Americans who have suspended their constitution or habeas corpus is it? If you have an obsession with American go get 'em. I'm not a US national, I could care less, but you link unrelated events and situations. Again, I ask why don't you criticize the French, Swedish, Norwegians, Danish etc. for voicing a much stronger position?
    Kindness is spaying and neutering one's companion animals.

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Albert Shagnastier
    No Thai has ever done this type of shit to any of their own people
    ignorance is bliss ..............................

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by zygote1
    The Abu Ghraib case was a breakdown in military discipline and procedure. It was not state policy. This is quite different than the aftermath of the Thammasat University massacre wasn't it? Following the wrongful acts at the Iraqi prison action was taken and heads rolled. No one is ever responsible for anything in Thailand. Who was held accountable after the kids were murdered at Thammasat?
    Nope. The few whose mates were stupid enough to post the pictures online got done. - What about all that didn't have their picture taken while battering and torturing prisoners?

    You talk about the Thammasat Massacre which was almost 40 years ago. Someone/ a group went mental and committed an atrocity right?


    Quote Originally Posted by zygote1
    One need only consider the treatment of the Rohingya or the massacre at the Bangkok wat in 2010.
    Drop in the ocean compared to the blood on the US's hands - not even close.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mid View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Albert Shagnastier
    No Thai has ever done this type of shit to any of their own people
    ignorance is bliss ..............................
    Right to the point and more simply articulated..............

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    Quote Originally Posted by Albert Shagnastier
    Drop in the ocean compared to the blood on the US's hands - not even close.
    Really?? Another waffle? You were discussing what the Thai's had done to their OWN people? And emphatically stating that no Thai's had EVER done such a thing? So back that up with any recent equivalent action the US "military" has taken against it's own people over the past 100 or more years? Remember we're talking "military"...

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Albert Shagnastier
    No Thai has ever done this type of shit to any of their own people

    war on drugs, thammasat massacre, the burning alive in oil barrels of suspected communists.


    and where are the voices of all these human rights worshipping america haters when stories about the ill treatment of rohingyas are posted here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Albert Shagnastier
    You talk about the Thammasat Massacre which was almost 40 years ago. Someone/ a group went mental and committed an atrocity right?
    It was constructed and controlled by the same group behind the current junta, and for pretty much the same reasons... The army surrounded the area to make sure no students escaped, then 'boy scouts' and their ilk (ultra-nationalists groups, very similar to the southern PADites) were bused in from upcountry, given weapons and set to work...

    All planned and managed by... with the social discourse pretty much controlled in the same way as now.
    Cycling should be banned!!!

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Albert Shagnastier View Post

    Drop in the ocean compared to the blood on the US's hands - not even close.
    You are fixated upon the USA. What's your position on the statements from the Governments of Norway, Sweden, and Denmark?

    Ok. to you the Thammasat massacre was a non event. How about Black May?
    Government official statements have reported that 52 people were killed, 696 others were injured, and 175 persons have "disappeared" in the context of the demonstrations. Unofficial sources put the number of those missing as considerably higher. I fact checked with a few reliable sources and have copied the AI death count. Was Black May another blip in history?

    Do you know what all of these deaths and massacres have in common? Thailand's military. There is something very wrong when an armed group runs a state within a state and refuses to accept oversight from a democratically elected civilian government. It goes far beyond the PTP or Thaksin. The military has been meddling in the daily lives of the civilians since WWII. The greatest threat to the country is presented by a military which does not understand what it's role is. Oh sure, it keeps saying what it's role is, but the military has not acted to protect encroachment on crown land has it? When has it ever acted decisively to stop human trafficking? For a group that claims it defends the borders, how is it that the yaba/timber/wildlife/human traffickers treat the borders much as a resident of the EU transiting between Germany and Holland treats the border?

    You want everyone to close their eyes and to trust in the military, a military where most of the senior officers live in homes, drive cars and maintain lifestyles far beyond their pay grade. Yea, gotchya.

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by FloridaBorn
    You were discussing what the Thai's had done to their OWN people? And emphatically stating that no Thai's had EVER done such a thing?
    Yes. No Thai has waterboarded anyone or force fed them - I'd wager.




    Quote Originally Posted by FloridaBorn
    So back that up with any recent equivalent action the US "military" has taken against it's own people over the past 100 or more years? Remember we're talking "military"...
    Well your "Amart" killed about 3500 of your own people on 9/11, but generally they prefer to kill little brown people from poor countries.



    Quote Originally Posted by taxexile
    war on drugs,
    The main reason that I dislike Thaksin.

    Saying that, execution is at least better than torture and execution - if you have to fucking pick one.



    Quote Originally Posted by taxexile
    thammasat massacre
    From what a can tell - a discrace - and one of the deepest scars for Thai people.


    Quote Originally Posted by taxexile
    the burning alive in oil barrels of suspected communists.
    Fair enough



    Quote Originally Posted by taxexile
    and where are the voices of all these human rights worshipping america haters when stories about the ill treatment of rohingyas are posted here.
    Again - in itself, a discrace to humanity. But if you compare it to US global hedgemony over the last 40 years - it's microscopic.

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by zygote1
    Ok. to you the Thammasat massacre was a non event. How about Black May?
    Quote Originally Posted by Albert Shagnastier
    Quote: Originally Posted by taxexile and where are the voices of all these human rights worshipping america haters when stories about the ill treatment of rohingyas are posted here. Again - in itself, a discrace to humanity. But if you compare it to US global hedgemony over the last 40 years - it's microscopic.
    No - that's what I said.

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by zygote1
    There is something very wrong when an armed group runs a state within a state and refuses to accept oversight from a democratically elected civilian government
    Man is that statement ironic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zygote1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Albert Shagnastier View Post

    Drop in the ocean compared to the blood on the US's hands - not even close.
    You are fixated upon the USA. What's your position on the statements from the Governments of Norway, Sweden, and Denmark?

    Ok. to you the Thammasat massacre was a non event. How about Black May?
    Government official statements have reported that 52 people were killed, 696 others were injured, and 175 persons have "disappeared" in the context of the demonstrations. Unofficial sources put the number of those missing as considerably higher. I fact checked with a few reliable sources and have copied the AI death count. Was Black May another blip in history?

    Do you know what all of these deaths and massacres have in common? Thailand's military. There is something very wrong when an armed group runs a state within a state and refuses to accept oversight from a democratically elected civilian government. It goes far beyond the PTP or Thaksin. The military has been meddling in the daily lives of the civilians since WWII. The greatest threat to the country is presented by a military which does not understand what it's role is. Oh sure, it keeps saying what it's role is, but the military has not acted to protect encroachment on crown land has it? When has it ever acted decisively to stop human trafficking? For a group that claims it defends the borders, how is it that the yaba/timber/wildlife/human traffickers treat the borders much as a resident of the EU transiting between Germany and Holland treats the border?

    You want everyone to close their eyes and to trust in the military, a military where most of the senior officers live in homes, drive cars and maintain lifestyles far beyond their pay grade. Yea, gotchya.
    They are sick, bitter, misguided individuals that hate people and countries, not actions, and this allows them to cherry pick their targets.

    Example: America is evil because of <enter event, real or imagined>, while <enter favoured group/people> must be good/peaceful because as clearly proven America is evil.

    But it's usually easy to pick up on this trait, because most of them are not very bright.

  16. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by zygote1
    Are you aware that a member of the USA cabinet is not a politician? The person is nominated by the President and is then voted upon by the Senate. The cabinet member does not run for the cabinet post. A nation can choose to "survive" or it can choose to advance and improve the quality of life for its citizens. The US government position is in accordance with international agreements and laws. Threatening journalists and educators if they do not follow the military dictatorship's line is not acceptable behaviour. Nor is the suspension of basic human rights such as Habeas Corpus. It is a view that is shared by the developed world. I suggest you read the Norwegian, Swedish and Danish government positions.
    You are correct in that he may not be an elected person. Elected by a citizens vote, however he is chosen or "elected to office" by a group from within the ruling political party. He also travels the world as a representative of the US government and speaks at fora as such. In that way he is a spokesman for the US political ruling party. Or is he speaking and repeating US government policy on behalf of a lunatic fringe group, he should make this clear before he spouts out a call for action to be followed by a foreign country.

    The US governments policy is in accordance to whatever "international" norm it chooses to honour today. Tomorrow it will ignore many "international" norm and kill a few brown people at a wedding party.

    Habea corpus, trial before sentance in the US, or anywhere they have air supiriority, eh! What century are you living in

    "A writ of habeas corpus is a writ (court order) that requires a person under arrest to be brought before a judge or into court."

    Tell that to the wedding party.

    These views are not shared by the overwhelming citizens of all the world, not just your limited "developed world".
    A tray full of GOLD is not worth a moment in time.

  17. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Albert Shagnastier View Post
    No Thai has ever done this type of shit to any of their own people - LET ALONE THE PEOPLE OF ANOTHER NATION WHO WERE INNOCENT.
    No Thai ever stacked boys into the back of a truck in the midday sun. No Thai ever shot a "drug dealer" in an extrajudicial murder. No Thai ever towed a boatload of refugees out to sea in a boat with no engine and no provisions. Wat Pathum Massacre never happened. Black May never happened.

    By the way, Britain has been onboard with every American military adventure of the past two decades- not forced to send a token force or tagging along to stay in the good graces of the US warmongers, but absolutely committed to the projects. Tony Blair was an enabler for Bush Junior, not a poodle, just as Thatcher was for the old man. The difference between Thailand and the US/Britain is the opposition have alternatives to violent action- it is possible, albeit difficult, to vote the bastards out or even prosecute them. The problem when democratic alternatives are eliminated is that opposition is left to either accept powerlessness or to lash back violently itself. The Muslims in the south have understandable grievances and no expectation of fair treatment (and their reasons for hating the Thaksinistas are especially understandable). If the non-Shin-affiliated Thai elite had any brains or imagination they would be able to hamstring the opposition as effectively as the right-wing/corporatists have done in the States without much violence (as Thaksin was doing quite effectively to them by keeping his base on a sugar high), but why bother with that sort of effort when you can just smack the fuckers down?

    Now the people of the north and northeast have again been informed that their votes don't count- in other words, non-violent, democratic opposition is pointless. The consensus among the soft (and not-so-soft) authoritarians on this board seems to be that the stupid dirty peasants should STFU and take it (although one formerly reasonable-sounding poster continually suggests that they should engage in pointless, suicidal violence to show how serious they are). Perhaps they will, through a combination of brainwashing about the proper order of society (sakdina), cynicism about politics in general, and fear, decide to give in and accept their inferior status. Perhaps they are waiting for a cue (please no jokes about going in the order of the chalkboard next to the table)- there are serious, unmentionable issues involved, as must be mentioned ad nauseam.

    In any case, never discount the tendency of power in Thailand to apply brute force and murder the weak and disadvantaged, Thai or non-Thai. In fact, never discount that very human tendency. Mercy and kindness to the loser is the exception not the rule, which is what makes it so noticeable.
    “You can lead a horticulture but you can’t make her think.” Dorothy Parker

  18. #93
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    We the west start all this shit

    You look at the west and all we ever see and read is how certain countries have to go through the atrocities on a day to day basis, to become what the west wants them to be, its pretty shameful really.

    the 100s of thousands killed every year,just for the wests quest for power and money.

    I look were i live with my family most are simple people, who live from day to day have a happy smiling face and were fucking them over.

    I left my own country to lead a simple life and see what i have seen many years ago in my own country and think what does the future hold for my kids.

    Damn the west shouldn't we just leave the people of these countries to be whatever they choose to be.

    But no WE want them to have democracy whatever that truly means, and were prepared for them to be lambs to the slaughter.

    I read members posts on here and see some think there better than others, but they live in a country that makes them feel better about themselves and feel they have the upperhand on the locals, and poor scorn on them.

    Do people really deserve the shit given out.

    The power brokers of this world will always be the same, we call the elite of Thailand tyrants, but really we are treated the same in our countries.
    Last edited by Yasojack; 01-06-2014 at 10:39 PM.

  19. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rural Surin View Post
    There isn't much difference between Thai and their brethren worldwide....just have an approach that's very viewable on the surface.
    More visible with Thailand because there are so many outsiders looking at their holiday/expat/exchange rate options. Really how many truly give a fok about the lack of democracy in Thailand? Most are just concerned that the overspill from civil unrest will impact on their lifestyle choices.

    As for America's moral lip service, when will they urge Saudi Arabia to grant similar concessions to their citizens.?
    Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What a Ride!"

  20. #95
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    A fish rots from the head. The military appear to either follow orders, or to be looking after their own interests. Time will tell who is who.

    I feel incredibly sad for the wonderful Thai common persons caught up in this atrocity. When does their patience come to an end?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Albert Shagnastier
    Yes. No Thai has waterboarded anyone or force fed them - I'd wager.
    So tell me what US citizen has been water-boarded by the US military??...Rhetorical question as once again you've gone off the rails and waffled into ignorance as the claim you made was that the "Thai government" had NEVER treated their citizens like the US had in this manner..

    ANOTHER epic fail on your part.. I'm still waiting for you're example of the US military mistreating an American citizen in this manner over the last 100 years..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Albert Shagnastier
    Well your "Amart" killed about 3500 of your own people on 9/11, but generally they prefer to kill little brown people from poor countries.
    I'm sure you have a link to this nonsensical contention right troll?? Even with all of the millions of pages that was stolen and posted by the scum bag Snowden not a single one ever said anything about this being the case. So where's your proof of such "facts"?? Oh that's right! They don't exist because the event as you portray it never happened.

  23. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Albert Shagnastier View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by zygote1
    You are fixated upon the USA. What's your position on the statements from the Governments of Norway, Sweden, and Denmark?
    Sorry, did I miss something here, have Norway, Sweden and Denmark been killing millions of people recently?

    No, of course they fucking haven't.
    You're comparing apples with oranges.
    The aforementioned countries all have a similar position in respect to the USA. France's Hollande used even stronger words at his press conference. I take it then that you have no issue with those countries' respective position?

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    Quote Originally Posted by zygote1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Albert Shagnastier View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by zygote1
    You are fixated upon the USA. What's your position on the statements from the Governments of Norway, Sweden, and Denmark?
    Sorry, did I miss something here, have Norway, Sweden and Denmark been killing millions of people recently?

    No, of course they fucking haven't.
    You're comparing apples with oranges.
    The aforementioned countries all have a similar position in respect to the USA. France's Hollande used even stronger words at his press conference. I take it then that you have no issue with those countries' respective position?
    They no understand Thailand. Unless they agree with the yellows.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Albert Shagnastier
    But if you compare it to US global hedgemony over the last 40 years - it's microscopic.
    We aren't comparing it globally, that's your problem, we are ONLY comparing, as you stated, "the Thai military has never done ANYTHING to their people like the US has".. You made it a global comparison.. And to do such a thing to ones own citizens not in an act of war, but rather a restriction of rights and freedoms and to unarmed innocents at that, is a far more reprehensible act..

    While it doesn't justify some of the acts singular soldiers may have done during war, the US singularly didn't declare the war on radical Muslims, nor did the world community, it was radical Muslims that declared war on the world community. The Muslims declared war on non-Muslims globally and our complacency towards them is what ended up costing the world in every way and still is. Anyway this is way off topic, doing your constant waffling, topic direction changes and trolling should get you some jail time..

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