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  1. #3976
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    ^ indeed, could show a disinterest of a certain electorate for voting

    Democrats didn't expect to win at all, just improved their numbers there, so they were equally shocked by the results

    Abhisit brought an interesting point, he says that their electorate base is growing, but it's taking time and it's a long term plan. They went from 7m votes to 11m votes, so their strategy is working, yet slowly. In contrast, the flashy billionaire is conducting a blitz marketing campaign with all kind of promotions that only poor souls can't resist.

    He thinks they will win the election eventually and that the party has changed itself dramatically in the last 5 years under his command. The results doesn't show now because the transformation is a big and difficult one.

  2. #3977
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobcock View Post
    Most chess players use their pawns sacrificially as well. Thaksin in doesn't give a shit about those who died, after all they served his purpose and played their parts in his play oh so well. From pawn to bargaining chip.
    They sacrificed for the greater good, perhaps master will throw the survivors another bone. It's easy to understand how some of them might rationalize their support, considering that no other important political figure in about 65 years has thought of them at all. He will lose some support, but can probably continue to be a more or less successful demagogue (unless he gets dead). Given the foundation the elites had lain for "democracy" in Thailand it is hardly a surprise that somebody like Thaksin came along.
    “You can lead a horticulture but you can’t make her think.” Dorothy Parker

  3. #3978
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    Quote Originally Posted by robuzo
    Given the foundation the elites had lain for "democracy" in Thailand it is hardly a surprise that somebody like Thaksin came along.
    that's another good point, I think the fragile democracy with the weak constitution of 1997 was a dream come true for sociopath and social dominators like Thaksin. If it wasn't him, it would have been someone else, possibly worse.

    Another reason why the 1997 constitution shouldn't be re-instated, too weak and too open for such a nascent democracy.

  4. #3979
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    Keep perspective on that last by-election in Pathum Thani.

    The PTP pissed the UDD/Red Shirts off, they boycotted the election and the PTP lost.

    Next time the PTP will pay attention. Perhaps they already are in Chiang Mai.

    I understand the beginning of perhaps something new, in Chiang Mai. There is also a by-election pending, but instead of the PTP designating its' candidate, they are going through a nominating contest.

    A departure from the norm, and a good one. I think it may be a bit of fall-out from the recent Pathum Thani thing. It certainly is a smart move on the PTP's part.

    This way the UDD/Red Shirts cannot question the choice of candidate, if they participated in the choosing.

    A similar issue is simmering in Chiang Rai. There is disagreement between the PTP/Thaksin and the UDD/Red Shirts about who should run for the local Obitaw. The PTP/Thaksin side wishes to appoint someone via previous approaches, the wife of somebody or other with Yongyuth connections. The UDD/Red Shirts object, considering this person's lack of quals. in their opinion.

    These type of pressures will hopefully usher in a more merit-oriented way of nominating candidates for this or that. The PTP is beginning to discover previous modus operandi doesn't fly when their electoral base is semi-independent, yet one on which they depend, as Pathum Thani clearly demonstrated.

    A merit-based selection system of nominating candidates is vastly superior and the UDD/Red Shirts seem to be forcing it upon the PTP.

    If the PTP expects the UDD/Red Shirts to vote for its' candidate, they are being forced into involving them in the selection of that candidate to start with. The nomination process in Chiang Mai is a manifestation of that revised MO.
    Last edited by Calgary; 25-04-2012 at 10:23 AM.

  5. #3980
    Thailand Expat Bobcock's Avatar
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    I like reading your stuff when you keep to the issue rather than the LB like smugness and insults

  6. #3981
    Suspended from News & Speakers Corner Calgary's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobcock View Post
    I like reading your stuff when you keep to the issue rather than the LB like smugness and insults
    Thx. BC, but I challenge media propaganda when I see it..... That is also an issue, and I cannot stomach giving them unchallenged agenda propagation freedom.

    Left unchallenged, it becomes reality. ......When Farangs see nothing else but the propaganda stuff of the Post and Nation, they have every right to accept that as factual, unless they are faced with alternatives. ......Some of these alternatives may appear petty, but cumulatively, the petty misrepresentations of the Post and Nation distort reality................. Sometimes it is difficult to remain on the high ground, when challenging sewer propaganda.

    I do my best to counter it. .......LB's vociforous reactions give pause to those who might otherwise accept that garbage as gospel, and I can't argue with that .............I saw the effects of this on another discussion Board. Not only is the propaganda accepted as gospel, it is systematically reinforced.

    I don't like to see that done to my fellow Farangs, and will counter it whenever I can. Up to them if they accept those alternatives....at least they receive alternatives.
    Last edited by Calgary; 25-04-2012 at 11:17 AM.

  7. #3982
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    And you counter it well when you provide balanced posts, you've made me think about a few things in the past when you behave like that.

    It's the silliness referring to anyone who disagrees to whatever degree as a PAD nutter or just being insulting where any real message you have gets lost. I wouldn't even notice whether LB has a decent message because I switch off from reading his juvenile shite.

    Keep on in your current mood, it serves you better.

  8. #3983
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    It's a hard road home for Thaksin - The Nation

    burning issue

    It's a hard road home for Thaksin

    Piyanart Srivalo
    Piyanart@nationgroup.com April 26, 2012 1:00 am

    It is widely known that the ultimate goal of the ruling Pheu Thai Party's reconciliation drive is to bring fugitive ex-premier Thaksin Shinawatra home scot-free. But it appears that the road to his return is not strewn with rose petals. While Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra is trying hard to restore reconciliation in the country, she should not forget that her core supporters could turn against her.

    Some groups within the red-shirt movement do not seem happy about the ruling party's latest strategy, especially the meeting between Yingluck and some of her Cabinet members and Privy Council President Prem Tinsulanonda at his residence today.

    They warned the government of a backlash from trying to appease the elite while disappointing its red-shirt supporters. They insisted that the government should bring the wrongdoers in the deaths of the 91 victims of the crackdown in April-May 2010 to justice.

    The red-shirt supporters were also dismayed when they heard several of their leaders urging them to forgive and forget in exchange for the country's future or for the sake of the country. The red supporters felt that the victims, who were sacrificed for the ruling party, were abandoned while the leaders are now rewarded with ministerial posts.

    However, Thaksin is aware of that. He tried to boost the popularity of the government among the red shirts during the Songkran holiday. He tried to show sympathy for his supporters after the government was accused of deserting the red-shirt supporters. But it did not work.

    Despite realising that the meeting with Prem could lead to a big and severe wound in the future, Yingluck and her party pushed hard for reconciliation and suggested several options

    First, Foreign Minister Surapong Tovichakchaikul, who is close to Thaksin, said he tried to raise the reconciliation issue at the Cabinet meeting on Tuesday. But he may have just wanted to test the waters, as in the end, he did not propose it for consideration. He earlier proposed to the government to heed suggestions from the Truth for Reconciliation Commission of Thailand. But its chairman Kanit na Nakorn rejected the idea as he did not want to be manipulated as a political tool for Pheu Thai.

    Second, another close aide of Thaksin, Noppadon Pattama, suggested issuing a reconciliation bill sponsored by small political parties or civic groups or the people, not the one sponsored by the ruling Pheu Thai, in order to avoid criticism over a conflict of interest. Noppadon's suggestion seems to be the most welcome as Chart Thai Pattana, a coalition partner, supported the idea.

    Third, Snoh Thienthong, a Pheu Thai key figure and party-list MP, voiced support for a reconciliation bill to bring Thaksin home on condition that Thaksin will not ask for the return of his seized Bt46 billion. But critics believe it would not be possible, as Thaksin definitely wants his money back.

    Last, Deputy Prime Minister Chalerm Yoobamrung, who was the first person in Pheu Thai to suggest a draft for reconciliation, suggested that the Pheu Thai Party sponsor the bill but his proposal was ignored by his party colleagues. His idea is likely to fizzle out, as the PM has repeatedly made it clear that she will leave the issue to the legislature.

    However, the final say on which proposal will be used could not be made by anyone else than the only man who will benefit from the reconciliation bill - Thaksin.

    The reason why Thaksin and his sister's government are pushing so hard for reconciliation is because they think the government now has solid stability while the resistance is so weak.

    But one thing Thaksin, Yingluck and her government members should be well aware of is that a pardon for Thaksin is a very sensitive issue. Not only does the public closely follow the issue but also the military, which has kept a keen eye on it.
    "Slavery is the daughter of darkness; an ignorant people is the blind instrument of its own destruction; ambition and intrigue take advantage of the credulity and inexperience of men who have no political, economic or civil knowledge. They mistake pure illusion for reality, license for freedom, treason for patriotism, vengeance for justice."-Simón Bolívar

  9. #3984
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    Quote Originally Posted by StrontiumDog
    The red-shirt supporters were also dismayed when they heard several of their leaders urging them to forgive and forget in exchange for the country's future or for the sake of the country. The red supporters felt that the victims, who were sacrificed for the ruling party, were abandoned while the leaders are now rewarded with ministerial posts.
    we told you so fuckers, but you were too dumb to listen

  10. #3985
    Suspended from News & Speakers Corner Calgary's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Nation
    It is widely known that the ultimate goal of the ruling Pheu Thai Party's reconciliation drive is to bring fugitive ex-premier Thaksin Shinawatra home scot-free.
    No its' not..........It is widely known that this is Amart agenda, easily identified as such by the characterization of their political enemy as a 'fugitive', instead of a political exile.

    Amart agenda is not the agenda of those who voted in an election heavily associated with Thaksin.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Nation
    While Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra is trying hard to restore reconciliation in the country, she should not forget that her core supporters could turn against her.
    Don't worry about it....... Wont happen...... Wishfull thinking wont even make it happen.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Nation
    Some groups within the red-shirt movement do not seem happy about the ruling party's latest strategy, especially the meeting between Yingluck and some of her Cabinet members and Privy Council President Prem Tinsulanonda at his residence today.
    Yeah, The UDD/Red Shirts are not the PTP, and have a will of their own. The meeting referenced above was heavily 'editted and circumscribed" as a result.

    Also, the UDD/Red Shirts weren't happy with the PTP over the stuff that happened in Pathum Thani, resulting in a subsequent loss by the PTP in a by-election. It drove home the point that the PTP is nothing without the UDD/Red Shirt support......and they need occasional reminding of that fact. The PTP was taken to the woodshed by the UDD/Red Shirts in Pathum Thani via its voter boycott.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Nation
    But one thing Thaksin, Yingluck and her government members should be well aware of is that a pardon for Thaksin is a very sensitive issue. Not only does the public closely follow the issue but also the military, which has kept a keen eye on it.
    The above is true, except the part about the 'Public". The amart agenda is not the agenda of the Public, as much as they try to suggest it, by stating it as a commonly accepted fact. The election is proof enough of that.
    >
    <
    All the other stuff about trying to characterize internal discussions of alternatives as somehow being divisive and driving wedges between the PTP and UDD/Red Shirts is just so much wishful and hopeful thinking.

    The UDD/Red Shirt are keenly aware of what Ms. Y. and company can do now, and what needs to be delayed for the future. The power of this Govt. has definite limits in spite of its electoral mandate. This is evidenced by the Govts. careful tracking of the Nitirat Proposals. The UDD/Red Shirts are patient in this regard, as a way of protecting Ms. Y. and company.
    Last edited by Calgary; 26-04-2012 at 11:52 AM.

  11. #3986
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calgary
    Originally Posted by The Nation - It is widely known that the ultimate goal of the ruling Pheu Thai Party's reconciliation drive is to bring fugitive ex-premier Thaksin Shinawatra home scot-free.

    No its' not..........It is widely known that this is Amart agenda, easily identified as such by the characterization of their political enemy as a 'fugitive', instead of a political exile.
    Have you been drinking all day?

  12. #3987
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calgary
    their political enemy as a 'fugitive', instead of a political exile.
    how do you call jumping sentence then ?

  13. #3988
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    ^ On that subject...

    Court upholds red radio host sentence





    The Appeals Court on Thursday upheld the lower court's vedict sentencing a red-shirt leader and radio show host to one year and four months in jail, suspended for two years, for inciting the torching of the city hall in Ubon Ratchathani province on May 19, 2010.
    The provincial court on Sept 13, 2011 sentenced Ubonkan Amornsin, a show host of a community radio station, to two years and eight months in jail for inciting her listeners to set fire to the city hall.
    The jail sentence was halved to one year and four months, suspended for two years, because she confessed.
    The prosecution on Jan 5 this year appealed against the suspension.
    The Region 3 Appeal Court today upheld the original verdict.



    Source : Court upholds red radio host sentence | Bangkok Post: breakingnews


    Looks like this is one unlucky person getting sentenced while the amnesty moves are afoot. Lets hope they now peruse the case against those who incited the torching of Bangkok.

    We wouldn't want anyone accused of double standards now would we?

  14. #3989
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butterfly
    how do you call jumping sentence then ?
    From a kangaroo court? Hopping.

  15. #3990
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    ^

  16. #3991
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calgary

    Next time the PTP will pay attention. Perhaps they already are in Chiang Mai. I understand the beginning of perhaps something new, in Chiang Mai. There is also a by-election pending, but instead of the PTP designating its' candidate, they are going through a nominating contest. A departure from the norm, and a good one. I think it may be a bit of fall-out from the recent Pathum Thani thing. It certainly is a smart move on the PTP's part.
    Red shirts snub Pheu Thai as northern by-elections loom
    26/04/2012

    Pheu Thai candidates are facing new competition in Chiang Mai and Chiang Rai by-elections as the party's red shirt allies ignore appointed candidates and insist on fielding their own people.

    In Chiang Mai, red shirt supporters have demanded "primary voting" to select a candidate for the Pheu Thai Party to run in a by-election in Constituency 3, that covers San Kamphaeng, Mae On and Doi Saket districts, Dapphichit Tamun, coordinator for the United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD) in Chiang Mai, said yesterday.

    The UDD Chiang Mai has agreed with local leaders in the three districts to have constituents vote for a candidate of their choice and nominate them for the party's consideration rather than to let it "pick a candidate whom people don't love or have faith in," Mr Dapphichit said.

    Their move comes after the defeat of Pheu Thai candidate Somchai Rangsiwatanasak to Democrat candidate Kiatisak Songsaeng in a by-election in Pathum Thani last Saturday. The unsuccessful candidate has been criticised for not helping people enough during their struggle against heavy flooding in the province last year.

    The UDD Chiang Mai will meet Pheu Thai key members this Saturday to discuss the idea of primary voting. The Election Commission has set June 2 as the by-election date to find a replacement for former Pheu Thai MP Chinnicha Wongsawat, who was disqualified for false asset and liabilities declarations.

    For the election of the chairman of the Chiang Rai provincial administration organisation (PAO) on May 27, two factions of the UDD in Chiang Rai have decided to separately send their own candidates to compete with a Pheu Thai candidate.

    Phanida Manotham, of the Tawan Daeng for economic stimulus faction, and former Pheu Thai MP Sarit Uengaphinan, supported by the Siang Prachachon for democracy faction, will compete against the wife of former House speaker Yongyuth Tiyaphairat, Salakjit, supported by the Pheu Thai Party and some red shirt supporters.

    Siang Prachachon leader Somchai Saengthong said his group backed Mr Sarit because he has continuously helped the group in past political rallies.
    In contrast, he claimed: "All seven Pheu Thai MPs for Chiang Rai have rarely heeded red shirt people".

    The competition between the party and its allies worries Chiranan Chanthawong, leader of the June 24 Democracy faction. They will only snatch votes from one another and let the other candidate and former PAO head Rattana Chongsutthanamani gain an advantage, she said.

    bangkokpost.com

  17. #3992
    Suspended from News & Speakers Corner LooseBowels's Avatar
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    Devastating blow to the PAD yellow nutter ( and their falang dope supporters)ethnic cleansing ideology

    Remember it, No vote for the "Isaan peasants"

    Well, not only has the vote of the "Isaan peasants" kicked out the illegal MAD PAD proxy government, here comes the "Isaan peasant MP's"

    You can't argue with that

  18. #3993
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    ^ I think you might be mentally ill LB

    Really, you are becoming more and more deluded by the day.

  19. #3994
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    Quote Originally Posted by StrontiumDog View Post
    ^ I think you might be mentally ill LB

    Really, you are becoming more and more deluded by the day.
    Coming from Whybother and Reasonable man, that is a compliment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Calgary View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by StrontiumDog View Post
    ^ I think you might be mentally ill LB

    Really, you are becoming more and more deluded by the day.
    Coming from Whybother and Reasonable man, that is a compliment.
    No, it's not, trust me.

    But then again, seeing as you didn't even know who the People's Information Centre were, anything you say or give an opinion on is highly likely to be total crap.

    I mean, c'mon Calgary. The number one organisation overseeing the red shirts in prison, who count them, who monitor them, who stand up for their rights. And you didn't know about it at all? And you claimed to have asked other red shirts about it too? You are just full of shit.

    You and LB have many things in common. You are both clueless trolls for starters.

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    ^ You can't argue with that!

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    Thailand Expat Bobcock's Avatar
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    Funny, when you type it I don't imagine the same snivelling voice in my head, blowing snot bubbles as he gets excited at having used the same troll line for the 500th time.....

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    Thaksin seen as a victim, lawyer says | Bangkok Post: news

    Thaksin seen as a victim, lawyer says

    Ousted prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra is welcomed around the world, his legal adviser says, because he is recognised as a political victim by the international community.

    Noppadon Pattama was speaking about Thaksin's plan to travel to the United Kingdom to watch a football match, despite the country barring him after his 2008 conviction in Thailand for corruption offences.

    But Mr Noppadon cited Thaksin's recent unhindered travels to other world powers as proof that those countries recognised that Thaksin's conviction was politically based.

    He said Britain, Germany, France, Japan and China had all granted visas to Thaksin, although the British government has made no statement to confirm it had lifted its restriction on Thaksin entering Britain.

    Nevertheless, Thaksin will fly in to England on Monday to watch a football match between Manchester City, which he once owned, and Manchester United.

    It will be Thaksin's first trip there since late 2008, when authorities shut the door on him after Thailand's Supreme Court's Criminal Division for Holders of Political Positions ruled him guilty in the Ratchadaphisek land purchase case.

    Some foreign media also report that the UK government has frozen about US$4.2 billion (130 billion baht) in assets believed to belong to Thaksin after it revoked his visa in November 2008.

    Mr Noppadon denied the real aim of Thaksin's UK visit is to negotiate for the release of the assets, saying that none are frozen there anyway.

    Mr Noppadon said European countries adhered strictly to democracy and respected the people's voice through elections.

    Mr Noppadon added that certain countries had taken action against Thaksin in the past because they had been pressured to do so when the Abhisit Vejjajiva government was in power and was attempting to extradite Thaksin so he could serve his two-year jail sentence.

  24. #3999
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bangkok Post
    Mr Noppadon added that certain countries had taken action against Thaksin in the past because they had been pressured to do so when the Abhisit Vejjajiva government was in power and was attempting to extradite Thaksin so he could serve his two-year jail sentence.
    One can only speculate where the pressure was coming from in Thailand, and who it was being exerted on in England.

    One can only speculate and not discuss.

  25. #4000
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobcock View Post
    Funny, when you type it I don't imagine the same snivelling voice in my head, blowing snot bubbles as he gets excited at having used the same troll line for the 500th time.....
    Here fucking here. Use of that line should result in an immediate red.

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