Amnesty for Former TRT Executives?

**Thaihome** · 19-04-2012, 09:26 AM

Originally Posted by Calgary

Originally Posted by Thaihome

His main support comes from the North and Northeast provincial landed elite.

Really?

All those thousands of Red Shirts I have rubbed shoulders with, at all those rallies since the coupist rape of Thailand in 2006, were "provincial landed elite"?

Who knew.

Your lack of understanding of local provincial and district politics is showing badly again. Look at a 2011 election result map. The answers are there if you care to see it.
TH

**Seekingasylum** · 19-04-2012, 10:14 AM

Originally Posted by DroversDog

Who pays for your oxygen? Maybe you should look in your mirror for scum. You will certainly find it if it is at all reflective.

As a piece of invective this post fails on so many counts but nevertheless probably exemplifies the garbled, incoherent gibberish so symptomatic of the red dross as they struggle to articulate their mania. Rover's Fog is the prime exponent of this but is to be commended for the assiduity with which he applies himself to the advancement of stupidity.

**mao say dung** · 19-04-2012, 03:36 PM

Originally Posted by thegent

he applies himself to the advancement of stupidity.

With great success apparently... having drawn yet another "waff, waff, waff" of puerile pomposity from a fatuous fool.

**StrontiumDog** · 19-04-2012, 06:31 PM

The timeline to a political tsunami

The timeline to a political tsunami

Suthichai Yoon
The Nation
Publication Date : 19-04-2012

You can never tell whether it's just a bluff or not that former Thai premier Thaksin Shinawatra knows something we don't about his own political future. For example, last week in Laos he said was coming home in "three to four months".

In fact, in one of his recent spate of interviews to the local press outside the country, Thaksin even mentioned his birthday on July 26 as the "target date" for his return to Thailand.

It wasn't made clear how that is to take place. The former premier would only say that his close associates and the red shirts were drawing up the plan and that preparations were being made by staunch supporters who strongly believe he can contribute greatly to the country with his presence back home.

Thaksin said his advocates want to give him a "birthday present" by bringing him home. But then he went on to qualify that with the statement that it's still fine if he doesn't return to Thailand within this year. He said the country was on the path to reconciliation. "I want to make sure all sides are happy," he told the Bangkok Post from Hong Kong last week.

A few days after that, he was in Laos. The sight of a large number of red-shirt supporters who went to wish him a happy Songkran (Thailand's traditional new year, which fells between Apr 13-15 this year) probably gave him enough of a morale boost to make him say a few firmer words: "I am sure I will be home in three to four months. There will be no more yellow shirts and red shirts. I am ready for national reconciliation. I can't help it if anyone doesn't want to be part of the reconciliation."

He probably forgot that he had said he wanted "all sides" to be happy with his possible move.

If "his side" wants him to return as a free man, the "other side" has no problem with his coming home on one very crucial condition: he will have to comply with the verdict of the court and his two-year jail term and fight the other cases filed against him.

That's what he is not ready to accept. And that's why opposition leader Abhisit Vejjajiva says Thaksin's next move will trigger two "political tsunamis" - one called "amnesty" and the other "constitutional amendments".

First things first. Abhisit says that after Songkran, the government could follow one of three scenarios: organise public hearings on the proposed amnesty bill; produce the draft amnesty bill; or make the first move but aim for the outcome in the second.

"I guess the government will go for the third option, which may be politically less controversial. In the end, the so-called public hearings will be no more than just a ceremonial thing. But if the government reads the King Prajadhipok Institute's report carefully, it will have to be very careful with pursuing the amnesty bill because that could spark a new round of national conflict. If the ruling party rams through the bill with its majority vote in Parliament and Thaksin comes home, the real question is: Can the country's conflict be really resolved?"

Thaksin's statement about his return home in the near future is necessarily based on his confidence that somehow, the amnesty bill will pass through the House and Senate. The timeline from now is crucial. The government could extend the current House session to accommodate the move - or the ruling Pheu Thai Party could call an extraordinary parliamentary session to force through the bill, which is the only legitimate tool to allow him to come home as a free man without facing any charges.

Or if it doesn't want to be seen to be rushing the legislative process just for one man, the government could wait until the annual Budget Bill is submitted to the House in June. The next House session, otherwise, is not due until August.

Not everyone in Thaksin's inner circle is convinced that the road back home is paved with roses. Yongyudh Tiyapairaj, a former secretary to the former premier, and no doubt a staunch supporter, had the following exchange with a Prachachat reporter:

Q: The procedure to get Thaksin home. How far has it gone as far as you are concerned?

A: First, I must ask: How is he going to come back? I must ask those who like to say that they will get (premier) Thaksin home. In fact, he is abroad, doing his business, which is much more prosperous than that in Thailand. If they take him back home, maybe he can stay only two days before having to leave again. Therefore, when they talk about bringing Khun Thaksin home, what they really mean perhaps is to liberate him from the bondage that has been caused by injustice.

Q: What would be the decisive factor in determining whether he can come back or not?

A: The law lays down the proper procedure and steps. He can return only when he is not guilty anymore. That's when he gets amnesty. Or he can return when he is advised by his supporters to do so, in which case a confrontation would follow, and that's not sustainable. The best choice would be for him to return with mercy and sympathy all around.

In other words, Thaksin was absolutely right when he said he would come home when "all sides" were happy with that scenario. He will have to work very hard to achieve that.

**noelbino** · 19-04-2012, 06:41 PM

Originally Posted by DroversDog

Originally Posted by noelbino

Of course.
How silly of me.
The average Thai will tell you the justice system here is tilted in favour of the rich.
The infamous 2001 verdict is evidence of this.

Infamous in what way?

History is not your forte, I see.

**LooseBowels** · 20-04-2012, 04:17 AM

The PAD yellow nutters supporters on here are clearly misunderstanding the difference between a lawful court based upon the institution of democracy, and an illegal junta appointed court .

When you find out just go back and examine the crap your'e putting up here.

You know who you are

But a nutter is a nutter.

You can't argue with that

**Calgary** · 20-04-2012, 07:01 AM

Originally Posted by LooseBowels

The PAD yellow nutters supporters on here are clearly misunderstanding the difference between a lawful court based upon the institution of democracy, and an illegal junta appointed court .

Couldn't 'a said that better myself...Bang on!

Originally Posted by [I]LooseBowels

You can't argue with that [/I]

Hard to argue with clear and irrefutable facts......but trust me...they will try.

But there isn't the enforced 'group-think' over here as elsewhere, so they are 'swimming upstream' over here.

**CaptainNemo** · 20-04-2012, 07:08 AM

Originally Posted by LooseBowels

democracy

you can argue with that.

**Calgary** · 20-04-2012, 08:36 AM

Originally Posted by CaptainNemo

Originally Posted by LooseBowels

democracy

you can argue with that.

For all its' faults, and believe me, we all know there are many, electoral realities in Thailand are better than any alternative I can think of. One can just hope the process matures over time, and improves.

Practically speaking, what alternatives do you suggest. The PADite anti-politician mantra, and by extension their anti-electoral agenda, is all good and well, but are you aware of their alternative? I am and it smells to high heaven!

**StrontiumDog** · 20-04-2012, 09:21 AM

Anything to say about this LB or Calgary?

https://teakdoor.com/thailand-and-asi...k-payouts.html (Red lawyers seek to push back payouts: Victims say govt used them to win power)

**Calgary** · 20-04-2012, 09:31 AM

Originally Posted by StrontiumDog

Anything to say about this LB or Calgary?

https://teakdoor.com/thailand-and-asi...k-payouts.html (Red lawyers seek to push back payouts: Victims say govt used them to win power)

All UDD/Red Shirts wish them well. No-one knows the constraints placed upon the PTP by "holy men" and others. These initiatives may give the PTP the leverage to act. Somewhat similar to the roadblocks thrown up to the PTP about Charter reform before the New Year. Pressures from their electoral base got them "off their ass" after the New Year, in spite of the torpedoes.

These people have everyone's support, including strong support within the PTP. Hopefully it will get them off their derriere.

The same can be said about the anti-coup taxpayers who are still incarcerated. That is also combustible, waiting for steam to build up enough to blow away coupist judicial holdovers.

**StrontiumDog** · 20-04-2012, 09:54 AM

^ But this is the lawyers, of the 111 banned Thai Rak Thai, so an extremely well connected and powerful group, seeking to delay compensation for 6 months....why would they do that?

As regards why there is a delay to the investigation of the majority of the deaths in April/May 2010, and in only cases where the military are known to have been involved are investigations proceeding (18 cases of the 90+), well Calgary, lets just say there is more to this than many seem to be aware of.

You might be very surprised by the truth. Certainly you appear unaware of what really went on. Yes the army shot people, I saw it with my own eyes. But they weren't the only ones doing the shooting....

Collateral damage. Think about it.

I also think you might want to stop and think about which 'side' is better in all this, as you have thrown you weight behind one cause. I don't see a better side. When you know more about the workings of things here, the stuff that doesn't appear in any media, for example, how the police really operate, well, you tend to be unable to support any side.

Remember which side supports Thaksin....and from whence he hails. The Dem's had the army, Thaksin has the police. Believe me. If you can join the dots, a lot of what happened makes perfect sense, but you need to have the wit to do it. Most it seems don't.

Here's something that might help.........

https://teakdoor.com/thailand-and-asi...police+corrupt (Ombudsman: Royal Thai Police found to be most corrupt)

**Calgary** · 20-04-2012, 10:42 AM

Originally Posted by StrontiumDog

Yes the army shot people, I saw it with my own eyes.

No you didn't.............. Forget the ad nauseum regurgitation of your after-the-fact photo's, but you didn't see the army shoot people. ............They did that, but you didn't see it.

BTW, did u see my revised signature. Tell your friends Whybother/Reasonableman.

**baldrick** · 20-04-2012, 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by LooseBowels

a lawful court based upon the institution of democracy

Originally Posted by noelbino

The infamous 2001 verdict is evidence of this.

no repeatable rationality at all from the cabal of the confused

**StrontiumDog** · 20-04-2012, 11:54 AM

Originally Posted by Calgary

Originally Posted by StrontiumDog

Yes the army shot people, I saw it with my own eyes.

No you didn't.............. Forget the ad nauseum regurgitation of your after-the-fact photo's, but you didn't see the army shoot people. ............They did that, but you didn't see it.

BTW, did u see my revised signature. Tell your friends Whybother/Reasonableman.

Yes I did.

Are you now telling me what I did and didn't see?

Have you completely lost your f*cking mind?

**StrontiumDog** · 20-04-2012, 12:25 PM

Originally Posted by Calgary

Originally Posted by StrontiumDog

Yes the army shot people, I saw it with my own eyes.

No you didn't.............. Forget the ad nauseum regurgitation of your after-the-fact photo's, but you didn't see the army shoot people. ............They did that, but you didn't see it.

BTW, did u see my revised signature. Tell your friends Whybother/Reasonableman.

Just love how you completely ignore all the other points raised.

Your real personality and motives are revealed. You don't give a f*ck about the people who died.

You don't care about how things really operate here. You have your views/opinions based upon surrounding yourself with people who agree with you. You are incapable of accepting alternatives. Really, you are a classic case, fraught with your own issues that have haunted you from childhood that manifest themselves in your current attitudes. A product of your environment, and you exist unaware of that fact.

I would bet a large chunk of change that you don't even know why you are the way you are. Highly dysfunctional. Total lack of insight. However, you feel some sense of personal justification wandering around the internet forums spreading your distorted gospel, fed to you by others, which you unquestioningly swallow, almost in some bizarre sadomasochistic manner (I just bet you don't understand that at all). And ignoring those who present alternatives. You have some interesting personality disorders....

I'd love to meet you. I'd have you worked out in seconds. I think I already do for the most part....just a few gaps....easily sorted.

So I'll say it again....

Justice for those who died. What of it? Are you saying you don't care? You have chowed down on the rancid crap fed to you so much you have lost touch with a most basic sense of humanity? Loss, grief, anger, hurt, pain.... People died. What are the red shirts going to do about it?

There needs to be justice. People were murdered. People lost loved ones. Their loss was for what? Do you have loved ones Calgary (I mean other than Thaksin)? Do you know what it feels like to lose those who you love? I do. I don't f*cking forget it either. Every day it hurts. Every day I miss them. Every day I feel sad. Do you care about the red shirts and normal people who lost loved ones? Where is the justice?

Oh yeah, paid off with money and then 'reconciliation' for the umpteenth time in this countries history....which has never solved anything before and wont again. The sickest joke of all. Once again....old habits die hard, right. Well it worked before...(have you seen just how much reconciliation is taking place? None is the answer...so what is it happening for? Oh yeah, for Thaksin.....)

Or is the end game your only concern. That your master will be restored? A person who doesn't care for you. In a country that isn't your own and in which you have no stake or say whatsoever. Is that what you seek?

Or is that the great amorphous mass you describe as 'elite' will somehow fall and you will feel somehow victorious, justified, correct? However, little do you realise you have been fed a lie. There is no better here. Just different names and faces. You are yet another victim...and there are so many.......You support the 'elite' against the 'elite' and you and your 'friends' are the 'army' that puts pressure on one group of 'elite' so that the other group of 'elite' can get the best deal for themselves. Don't believe it? Up to you. You will see....

You really are a champion for 'democracy' in a country where there isn't any real democracy and never has been or is likely to be for a very long time. Keep fighting the good fight mate. Keep fighting the imagined enemies in your mind. Keep fighting the (mis)perceived 'other side'. One day you will realise how you have been utterly butt-f*cked. But I just bet you wont be posting on forums when you do.......oh the huge sense of embarrassment, how could you have been so wrong about so much? I guess you could always change your user name.....

**Gerbil** · 20-04-2012, 12:41 PM

Originally Posted by StrontiumDog

Do you have loved ones Calgary (I mean other than Thaksin)?

Yes. His 'Hero', Arseman.

**robuzo** · 20-04-2012, 01:51 PM

So, what is the argument here? Is the Thai judiciary corrupt? Did Thaksin get fair representation when tried in absentia? Could the judges have been intimated or bought in that case? Could they have been intimidated/bought if Thaksin had been tried while still in power?

Does anybody really think, despite what BKK Spot or Notion editorials have to say, that Thaksin is afraid of returning because he is afraid of doing time?

**Thaihome** · 20-04-2012, 02:45 PM

Originally Posted by robuzo

...Does anybody really think, despite what BKK Spot or Notion editorials have to say, that Thaksin is afraid of returning because he is afraid of doing time?

I agree, he is not afraid of doing any time, at 62 or something now, he could put off doing any time for the rest of his life. What he is afraid of is the details of the other 4 cases coming out in open court and having to fight them for the rest of his life.

Nor does he want a full and open investigation into the 2010 protests.

TH

**robuzo** · 20-04-2012, 03:06 PM

Yeah, well, I doubt he is afraid of endless court cases, too. If he were there would have been no reason to oust him with a coup.

As to "Nor does he want a full and open investigation into the 2010 protests." Really? How about an investigation into the 2010 massacre? It strikes me that a deal is being struck to sweep the whole thing under the rug, going back to the coup and after, including the airport siege. We'll never see the light of day on the facts of the latter, let alone what really happened in May 2010, except for a lot of people dying for another election.

I can think of a list of characters it would be fascinating to put on the witness stand with full immunity and possibly the injection of some sort magical truth serum, the stories Thaksin, Sondhi, Sonthi, Sutep, Mark, Prem, et al could tell. Not much sunshine for a tropical country.

**baldrick** · 20-04-2012, 03:22 PM

Originally Posted by Thaihome

Nor does he want a full and open investigation into the 2010 protests.

this is a point many miss - how involved was he really(or could be proven) with his little generals army that could be accused of terrorism/treason

**Butterfly** · 20-04-2012, 05:12 PM

Originally Posted by StrontiumDog

You don't care about how things really operate here. You have your views/opinions based upon surrounding yourself with people who agree with you. You are incapable of accepting alternatives.

he is a Right Wing Authoritarian, you know how they think and act. See that study I sent you a PM about. They describe his case perfectly. He is basically a blind nutter, like most American nut jobs who portrait themselves as conservative patriots. Being far from home, probably found a new cause here that fits such a fascist and narrow political agenda.

Originally Posted by StrontiumDog

Have you completely lost your f*cking mind?

he never had one in the first place, so how could he lost it ?

**sabang** · 21-04-2012, 07:41 AM

Thaksin is returning, little question about that- and there are very few ostriches left with their head in the sand, albeit what few there are (PAD) receive inordinate publicity. The politically and judicially biased political suspensions end soon to. The real question is- so what? In many ways it's back to normality- the issues of Judicial corruption & independence, corruption in general, and Military loyalty to the legitimate government of the day still remain. T isn't the Messiah, and I reckon the inordinate amount of attention lavished on him (from both sides) will incrementally fade after his return.

The last 5 years has really only been useful in reinforcing the peoples Right of Suffrage and national Rule of Law, and at great cost to the nation- but that is an important reinforcement nevertheless. And it is good to see the back of the utterly inept and corrupt governments appointed on the back of the Coup, with their various 'favors owed' and total neglect of the primary interests of the nation. The "loyal opposition" can say what it wants, but the fact remains the last time this nation was really doing well was under Thaksin, in a legitimately appointed government. The staged lead up, military Coup, and aftermath was a disaster for Thailand, probably amounting to something like a lost decade in the larger scheme of things. But the 'normality' Thailand returns to is one of squabbling, corrupt factions putting their own perceived selfish interests first- with a lavish dose of petulant SinoThai face thrown in for good measure.

Perversely, one potential benefit of Thaksins return from exile might be an opportunity for the clownish Democrat party to actually reform itself in some meaningful way, and present a credible democratic alternative to the nation outside of Bangkok sino's and southern fiefdoms. But perhaps I am underestimating their petulance and self defeating arrogance.

**Butterfly** · 21-04-2012, 08:07 AM

Originally Posted by sabang

albeit what few there are (PAD) receive inordinate publicity.

you are starting to sound like Calgary

**sabang** · 21-04-2012, 08:08 AM

Yes, of course the Bangkok sinoThai 'Press' does not exaggerate the importance or relevance of the embittered PAD remnants at all BF.
snigger chortle chuckle.

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