Phi Phi : Canadian sisters found dead in Thai resort

**alitongkat** · 11-10-2012, 09:25 AM

im not saying they have to publish right away, what caused their death...

but did they FIND the likely cause at all?

**The Big Fella** · 11-10-2012, 09:53 AM

If they can't be sure what it was how can they be so sure what it wasn't ? You don't just die like these two young ladies did for no reason. Another case that will probably be quietly forgotten and we will never know the truth

**alitongkat** · 11-10-2012, 10:06 AM

the canadian coroner hasnt said, she is "not sure" what caused their death... has she?

i understand her saying, she is 100% sure, that it was NOT DEET...

**socal** · 11-10-2012, 01:28 PM

Originally Posted by koman

From CBC News site today:

A Quebec coroner is challenging the autopsy findings of Thai officials that ruled two Quebec sisters found dead in their hotel room in June were accidentally poisoned.
Coroner Renée Roussel told Radio-Canada the concentration of the chemical DEET in the sisters' system wasn't enough to be fatal.
That contradicts the conclusion of Thai authorities, who performed post-mortems on the bodies of Noémi Bélanger, 25, and Audrey Bélanger, 20, shortly after the sisters were found on June 15 by hotel staff.
A pathologist determined the women likely ingested DEET, a principal ingredient in bug repellant, in a euphoria-inducing cocktail that is popular among youth in Thailand.

Dr. René Blais of Quebec's poison control centre said the DEET concentration reported by the Thai pathologist doesn't correspond to a concentration that would be toxic, "let alone a concentration that would be fatal."
It's still unclear what caused their deaths if it wasn't DEET poisoning.

Maybe there was amphetamines in their system too.

Not that I think they knowingly took it. I been to full moon parties.

There is some glassy eyed people around there. Seen some girls dancing on a picnic table all night. They werent just drinking sang som.

I bet the Dad wants to shut this coroner up because he knows what the scoop is

**DrAndy** · 11-10-2012, 01:30 PM

so the girls were full of drugs, maybe

why would the father care about that "news", it is normal there

**alitongkat** · 11-10-2012, 01:40 PM

you suggest, they were "full of drugs" and the thai autopsy didnt find THAT?

**chitown** · 11-10-2012, 08:54 PM

How dare they question the Thais!!

**alitongkat** · 11-10-2012, 09:03 PM

when i remember back, i think the thais didnt say, the sisters died of deet...

they showed a document briefly to journalists, and commented that they found deet in the sister system...

but never said, how much, if poisonous dose, if fatal dose...
just "found deet"...

the canadian coroner also "found deet"...

most likely the sisters had as much deet, as all of us...

...did the canadians find the true (likely) cause of death ?

**socal** · 11-10-2012, 09:55 PM

Originally Posted by alitongkat

you suggest, they were "full of drugs" and the thai autopsy didnt find THAT?

No. I am suggesting that the family, the Thai and Canadian authorities know it but they don't want to say it. To save the families image.

Would you want the whole world to know that your two daughters had amphetamines in their system in this situation ?

**alitongkat** · 11-10-2012, 10:07 PM

Originally Posted by socal

Originally Posted by alitongkat

you suggest, they were "full of drugs" and the thai autopsy didnt find THAT?

No. I am suggesting that the family, the Thai and Canadian authorities know it but they don't want to say it. To save the families image.

Would you want the whole world to know that your two daughters had amphetamines in their system in this situation ?

yes, before it leaves doubts and fears to thousands of travellers around the world - i would think this mystery has to be solved now for everyone in public...

it would be also a question, how these drugs had been ingested in this case...

you dont die of amphetamines - and not that way...

**socal** · 11-10-2012, 11:00 PM

[quote=alitongkat;2239416]

Originally Posted by socal

Originally Posted by alitongkat

you suggest, they were "full of drugs" and the thai autopsy didnt find THAT?

No. I am suggesting that the family, the Thai and Canadian authorities know it but they don't want to say it. To save the families image.

Would you want the whole world to know that your two daughters had amphetamines in their system in this situation ?

yes, before it leaves doubts and fears to thousands of travellers around the world - i would think this mystery has to be solved now for everyone in public...

it would be also a question, how these drugs had been ingested in this case...

Thats what I thought at first... But then I realized what the reaction would be. You said it below

you dont die of amphetamines - and not that way...

Blah blah blah.. Apparently you don't die of anything these days.

Not DEET, not SangSom and redbull, not mushrooms
, and now, not amphetamines of all fuckin things..

I guess nothing should have been able to kill these girls.

**Tom Sawyer** · 11-10-2012, 11:57 PM

What's your point? The Quebec medical examiner is saying (clearly) that the Thai coroner/medical examiner's suggestion that DEET killed them is complete nonsense. It could barely have harmed them. Why would the Quebec authority do that or care to that?

**guyinthailand** · 12-10-2012, 12:47 AM

Quebec coroner refutes Thai autopsy results for Belanger sisters
Phuket Gazette – Thursday, October 11, 2012 1200 PM

A Quebec coroner has refuted claims that Audrey and Noemi Belanger died from ingesting DEET. Photo: Facebook

PHUKET: A Quebec coroner has refuted claims by Thai officials that the Belanger sisters died in their Phi Phi hotel room in June after consuming the insecticide DEET.

Audrey Belanger, 20, and Noemi Belanger, 25, were found dead in their hotel room on Phi Phi Island on June 15. Both had suffered a violent physical reaction to suspected poisoning.

Autopsies conducted by forensic police in Thailand identified undisclosed amounts of DEET in both woman’s systems, possibly from a “party cocktail” known locally as “4x100”. The regular form of the “cocktail”, however, does not contain DEET or any other insecticide.

But the independent autopsy in Quebec has ruled out the possibility of DEET being the cause of the sisters’ deaths, said Quebec coroner Renee Roussel on Radio-Canada.

Dr Rene Blais of Quebec’s poison control center explained that the concentration of the chemical reported by the Thai pathologist does not correspond to concentration that would be toxic, “let alone a concentration that would be fatal.”

Thought the test results rule out DEET as the cause of death, the autopsy in Quebec did not determine another possible cause.

Secondary autopsies have already been conducted in Montreal, but the results have not been released, reported Radio-Canada.

Thai officials have not officially closed the case. However, Lt Col Jongrak Pimthong of the Krabi City Police has repeatedly confirmed to the Phuket Gazette that the investigation has come to a halt at the police investigation level.

“We have sent a cause-of-death report to the Canadian Embassy or the Krabi Prosecutor’s Office. This is not a criminal report. We have no suspects,” Lt Col Jongrak said.

The cause of death is listed in the police report as “unknown” due to the circumstances of the sisters’ deaths, he said.

Phuket NEWS: Quebec coroner refutes Thai autopsy results for Belan

**socal** · 12-10-2012, 07:02 AM

Originally Posted by Tom Sawyer

What's your point? The Quebec medical examiner is saying (clearly) that the Thai coroner/medical examiner's suggestion that DEET killed them is complete nonsense. It could barely have harmed them. Why would the Quebec authority do that or care to that?

This guy is just looking for 15 minutes of came and he's getting it. My point is that nobody seems to think anything could have killed them. From a PR standpoint, nothing is worse then this

**StrontiumDog** · 21-10-2012, 09:48 PM

Tourist Deaths Raise Poison Expert's Suspicions | WBUR & NPR

Tourist Deaths Raise Poison Expert's Suspicions

NPR Staff October 20, 2012

Listen to this story

The Phi Phi Islands in Thailand are a tourists' paradise. In June, sisters Noemi and Audrey Belanger were found dead in their hotel room there. (AFP/Getty Images)

Thailand's Phi Phi Islands are famous for the sun during the day and beach-side cocktail parties at night. This summer, two Canadian sisters set off for a rite-of-passage trip to the islands' white sands. They never came back.

Noemi, 25, and Audrey, 20, Belanger were found dead in their hotel room. Their deaths were among the latest in a series of mysterious deaths in Southeast Asia. Over the past few years, nearly a dozen young travelers, mostly Western women, have inexplicably died while traveling in the region.

The deaths have caught the attention of science writer Deborah Blum, who's written about them in Wired magazine. A poison expert, Blum tells weekends on All Things Considered host Guy Raz that a popular cocktail may hold a clue.

"One of the things that a lot of the tourists drink are called bucket drinks, where people will come to your table, or your chair, or where you're sitting in the sand, and they'll mix up a drink for you," Blum says.

It was at one of these after-dark beach parties where local police say the sisters ingested DEET, the chemical used in mosquito repellant. Thai investigators say it's a common ingredient in those bucket drinks because of its hallucinogenic effects, but Blum is skeptical about that claim.

"There is absolutely zero evidence that DEET is used in these cocktails on these beautiful Thai islands," she says.

Blum says the autopsies showed the sisters' deaths were gruesome and that the trauma to their bodies is inconsistent with DEET poisoning.

In late July, two women in their mid-20s were backpacking through Vietnam. Kari Bowerman, a 27-year-old American from Wisconsin, and Cathy Huynh, a 26-year-old Canadian, were on vacation from their jobs as English teachers in South Korea.

The companions arrived in Vietnam one day, and the next day they were in the hospital, Blum says. "They were, both of them, suffering from symptoms of what looked like acute poising."

Huynh was discharged from the hospital, but returned later that night to visit Bowerman — only to find out she had died. Huynh herself died in the hospital two days later.

A pesticide called chlorpyrifos is being blamed for the women's deaths. Though commonly used to treat bedbug infestations in Asian countries, it's banned for use in residential buildings in the United States because of its link to developmental problems in children.

Blum says the theory that Bowerman and Huynh died from careless fumigation at their hotel doesn't add up.

"If you're doing widespread fumigation, it's not like you're just doing one room," she says. Why didn't hotel workers or other guests die?

Rather, Blum thinks the deaths of all these women may have been deliberate. In the case of the Belangers, she says, "why would these two young girls ... be the only ones who die from a poisoned cocktail? That doesn't sound to me like you're randomly drinking the popular beach drink. That sounds to me like someone picked you out."

Blum is continuing her investigation into the deaths, but in Thailand police are standing by their story. The autopsies point to one cause, they say, DEET.

Transcript

GUY RAZ, HOST:
Over the past five years, almost a dozen Western tourists - all young, mostly women - who've been traveling in Southeast Asia have died quickly and unexpectedly under mysterious circumstances. All of those cases caught the attention of science writer Deborah Blum, who's written about them for Wired magazine. She was interested in what happened largely because Deborah Blum is one of the foremost experts on poison. She even wrote a book about it. In fact, she knows so much about poison that she could probably kill you and me and anyone else and get away with it.

DEBORAH BLUM: My husband does not drink coffee with me in the same room.

(LAUGHTER)

BLUM: He hasn't for years.

RAZ: Anyway, back to the story. Deborah Blum first heard about these mysterious deaths this past summer. Two Canadian sisters, Audrey and Noemi Belanger, set off on a trip to Thailand in June.

BLUM: They were doing a sister vacation in the beautiful resort island. I've seen this described as a kind of 20-something rite of passage vacation. You go, you hang out on these beautiful beaches, you drink cocktails.

RAZ: The islands are famous for their white sand beaches, and at night...

BLUM: Especially after dark, the beaches of these islands become the epic cocktail party. And one of the things that a lot of the tourists there drink are called bucket drinks, where people will come to your table or your chair or where you're sitting in the sand, and they'll mix up a drink for you.

RAZ: And it was at one of these after-dark beach parties where local police say the sisters ingested DEET, which is better known as the chemical known to repel mosquitoes. But why DEET? Well, Thai investigators say it's a common ingredient in those bucket drinks because it creates a high. Now, that theory didn't sit right with Deborah Blum.

BLUM: So the first thing I thought when I saw DEET was how much DEET would you have to drink to have that kind of reaction, because everyone I know in the world has had some DEET exposure. The explanation by the police were so devious and made so little sense. When I did continuing research on the bucket cocktail theory, I don't know where that came from. There's absolutely zero evidence that DEET is used in bucket cocktails.

RAZ: They went to a party.

BLUM: MM-hmm.

RAZ: That was where they were last seen, and then the next day, they were found dead in their hotel rooms.

BLUM: That's exactly right. These were very gruesome deaths. And I've asked myself this, you know, did no one hear them? Did they not call for help?

RAZ: About a month later, in Vietnam, something similar happened. Two women in their mid-20s: an American from Wisconsin, Kari Bowerman, and a Canadian named Cathy Huynh.

BLUM: And they were taking a vacation and backpacking through Vietnam. And they stopped one night at a touristy beach town. They arrived one day, the next day, they were in the hospital. And they were, both of them, suffering from symptoms of what looked like an acute poisoning, incredible difficulty breathing. They were hypotensive, their blood pressure was plummeting, they were acutely nauseated, they were slipping in and out of consciousness.

RAZ: Cathy was eventually discharged from the hospital. When she returned later that night to visit Kari, she found out her friend was dead, and two days later, so was she.

BLUM: My understanding is that the Vietnamese had the Canadian woman cremated. They haven't sent the results. They haven't told what chemicals they tested for. They haven't provided any of the actual details. They just said, no, no, no. It couldn't possibly be poison.

RAZ: These four deaths are part of a larger pattern: nine deaths in the last year and a half in Thailand and Vietnam - all Western tourists, mostly young, seven of them in just one Thai hotel.

The theory there - and this was raised with these two women in Vietnam - was that they were using an organophosphate pesticide. It's called chlorpyrifos, which is actually banned in buildings in the United States. It's been used heavily and widely in some of these Asian countries to fight bedbugs. The reason, though, chlorpyrifos is banned in residential spaces in the United States is not because it's phenomenally toxic but because it's linked to developmental problems. In other words, if you had kids in the building.

Why would it kill them and not other people presumably exposed to this in a hotel?

BLUM: See, that doesn't make any sense, does it? Because if you're doing widespread fumigation for bedbugs, it's not like you're just picking one room.

RAZ: Do you think insecticides and DEET had anything to do with the deaths of these women?

BLUM: I find the DEET very ludicrous. I mean, I can't even figure out where they came up with it. I've heard from scientists who studied DEET who say the same thing. So, I - no, I don't think it's DEET. Do we have any good police work that tells us what that poison was? We don't. Is there a good reason to suspect that some of this might be deliberate? Yeah, I think there - it makes a lot of sense. And if I just go back to these young women on Phi Phi Island, why would two young girls, out of the crowds of people on the beach, be the only ones who die from a poison cocktail? That doesn't sound to me like, you know, you're randomly drinking the popular beach drink. That sounds to me like someone picked you out.

RAZ: Deborah Blum is still investigating these cases. In Thailand, police say they concluded theirs this week. The deaths, they say, were caused by DEET. You can find more on this story at Deborah Blum's blog, elemental.wired.com.

(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)

RAZ: You're listening to ALL THINGS CONSIDERED from NPR News. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright National Public Radio.

**alitongkat** · 21-10-2012, 10:23 PM

that it were all women, or that it seems so, could be also because...

women use to travel NOT alone, they go together... and when TWO of whatever gender in a room die, then its really obviously very strange, and there is no much to do about it (suicide, previous condition, bla bla)

its possible, that the dark figures are MUCH MUCH higher, and that also men are affected...

they just die all alone in their rooms, and the cause of death is determined otherwise...

also possible, that they feel quite unwell, but drink something more, and then drive on a motorbike, somewhat drunk as well and only think, they have to make it home quickly... that men dont make it back to their room, as soon as they feel somewhat unwell - women will...

?

that the dead women make it more into the "limelight", because the cases occur in doubles...
while men die of the same reasons, but its attributed differently...

its also possible, that men have the same infect, but die of a heart attack, before they develop the same multitude of symptoms as females...

**alitongkat** · 21-10-2012, 10:29 PM

the south african in the laundry... what died he of?
just because someone drinks, it doesnt mean he will die of it by 48...

but because he drank, its assumed so... end of...

most men here, will drink daily... and thats then the cause of death...
..."plausible"... when its men...

**Tom Sawyer** · 21-10-2012, 10:44 PM

No, it does seem someone is poising these people. I suggested once before that a real detective could pinpoint the various dates of death and track the employment of someone through the different places where the deaths occured (remember, it wasn't just young full-moon people in various locations including Chiang Mai and they were also older middle age and up who died in Downtown Inn). It just requires some resources by the Tourist Police to do so. But we know how this country works and there is no reason that a real investigation will happen unless someone swinging from a higher tree is willing to make it an issue.

**alitongkat** · 21-10-2012, 10:57 PM

also this very young swedish(?) guy, that died in a guesthouse and we saw the pictures with his mobile, his laptop... you remember?

even if he took medication (diabetes or whatever), its just TOO YOUNG...
and also - as in the other cases - NO ASK FOR HELP, even though he knew the place well, he knew the owner, the reception and everyone very well...

this young swedish guy died very quickly, pretty much out of the blue to himself...
he was fully dressed, it looked all neat, ok... the laptop out and unfold...
and even IF he had a previous condition, then his medication was still all lined up, approx 30 centimeters next to his right arm...
apparently he didnt try to take anything from the shelf...

its possible, that he got the same virus/bacteria/poison but died a "different way", without that many symptoms the (not-diabetic etc) sisters developed over hours...

the cases, where people die so fast or get into a status, so fast, that they are unable to do anything to get help, or anything "useful" in this situation, as crawling to the door at least, to the bathroom, anything(!), those cases are all SUSPICIOUS...
it could be well the same cause...

maybe we can make a brainstorming, about too young people in your native country, which died that way...
so fast developing symptoms, even unable to call anyone, anything...

i dont remember any such case...

**Tom Sawyer** · 21-10-2012, 11:13 PM

There is clearly something going on - but beware, this turns off business - and results in a backlash, not as bad here as on TV, but still...

**alitongkat** · 21-10-2012, 11:31 PM

maybe the south african died in the laundry, because he was walking through the house in order to find some staff...

maybe he died elsewhere and was brought back and dropped in the laundry...

what was his blood alcohol at the time of death?
should be easy and quickly to determine...

**socal** · 22-10-2012, 04:20 AM

Originally Posted by alitongkat

most men here, will drink daily... and thats then the cause of death...
..."plausible"... when its men...

Thats right. Everyone is in a knot because these were two coddled western women raised in the nanny state.

**socal** · 22-10-2012, 04:22 AM

Originally Posted by alitongkat

also this very young swedish(?) guy, that died in a guesthouse and we saw the pictures with his mobile, his laptop... you remember?

even if he took medication (diabetes or whatever), its just TOO YOUNG...
and also - as in the other cases - NO ASK FOR HELP, even though he knew the place well, he knew the owner, the reception and everyone very well...

this young swedish guy died very quickly, pretty much out of the blue to himself...
he was fully dressed, it looked all neat, ok... the laptop out and unfold...
and even IF he had a previous condition, then his medication was still all lined up, approx 30 centimeters next to his right arm...
apparently he didnt try to take anything from the shelf...

its possible, that he got the same virus/bacteria/poison but died a "different way", without that many symptoms the (not-diabetic etc) sisters developed over hours...

the cases, where people die so fast or get into a status, so fast, that they are unable to do anything to get help, or anything "useful" in this situation, as crawling to the door at least, to the bathroom, anything(!), those cases are all SUSPICIOUS...
it could be well the same cause...

maybe we can make a brainstorming, about too young people in your native country, which died that way...
so fast developing symptoms, even unable to call anyone, anything...

i dont remember any such case...

A hugely different climate could have something to do with it.

**guyinthailand** · 22-10-2012, 10:28 PM

Is a Holiday Island Killer on the Loose? Canada's Envoys Stay Silent - Phuket Wan

The Belanger sisters: time for commonsense and common decency

Is a Holiday Island Killer on the Loose?
Canada's Envoys Stay Silent

By Alan Morison
Monday, October 22, 2012
News Analysis

PHUKET: Poisons expert Deborah Blum now speculates that a serial killer could be responsible for the mysterious deaths of Canadian sisters Audrey and Noemi Belanger on Phi Phi.

Will this alarming conclusion suddenly make Canadian diplomats and Thai authorities wake up to their responsibility to reveal everything they know about the sisters' deaths?

Not likely, unfortunately. The Canadian envoys are obliged to say nothing, and for their own reasons, the Thai authorities are content to join them under the Cone of Silence.

Like journalists at Phuketwan, Blum has become a keen student of the Belanger case, involving as it does mysterious deaths, an enchanted tropical holiday island, confusing information, and two tragic young victims who had the rest of their lives ahead of them.

When one important group of people involved (the Canadian envoys) are obliged by law to say nothing and another important group (the police) are content to go along with that, conjecture and confusion become inevitable.

The author of 'The Poisoner's Handbook: Murder and the Birth of Forensic Medicine in Jazz Age New York,' Blum is also a Pulitzer prize winning science writer.

As a kind of modern-day Ms Marples, Blum is on the Phi Phi case and keen to see it through. In her latest article for Wired.com on the Belangers, Blum says:

''As I wrote in a second post, ''Poisoning the (Female) Tourist in Asia,'' neither have authorities offered up any clear explanation of what appears to be a whole series of female tourist deaths - many linked to symptoms of poison - in both Thailand and Vietnam during the past several years.

''And as I said Saturday, during an interview on the Weekend edition of NPR's All Things Considered, [on radio] there's a troubling pattern here.

''There's official stone-walling despite evidence of toxic exposure found by both Asian and independent laboratories. This suggests a cover up. '

''And there's a trail of dead women, which suggests that one possibility being covered up is murder, even possibly serial murder.''

Comparisons are being struck with the deaths in Vietnam of American Kari Bowerman, 27, and Canadian Canadian Cathy Huynh, 26, in July and August, of New Zealander Sarah Carter, 23, and others in Chiang Mai earlier, and of American Jill St Onge, 27, and Norwegian Julie Bergheim, 22, on Phi Phi in 2009.

Pressure from envoys and families in the case of Sarah Carter brought a response from Thai authorities who, because of the threat to tourism in Thailand, released detailed updates as they investigated the causes of the deaths at the Downtown Inn.

There have now been four unexplained deaths of young women on Phi Phi.

At least, four that we know of - news of the mysterious fatalities in Chiang Mai grew over time as more deaths were linked to the mystery.

Despite the danger of tourists turning off Phi Phi, the authorities have revealed nothing and used the request of the Canadian envoys for privacy as an excuse.

It seems likely that insecticide was found in the bodies of 20-year-old Audrey Belanger and her 26-year-old sister. That much the local police in Krabi, the province that oversees Phi Phi, have been able to confirm.

But the officers have also said their final report to the Canadian embassy notes that their investigation into the sisters' demise failed to establish a cause of death.

While the future safety of tourists travelling around South east Asia is important, what clearly troubles Phuketwan and Blum is the intransigence of the authorities in this case.

The snuffing out of two young lives in a tropical paradise that has become a rite-of-passage visit for 20-somethings should be deeply troubling to Thai officials and to the Canadian government.

If it is, they ain't saying. How tragic then that more young people appear to now be at risk simply because of a Thailand-sanctioned Canadian coverup.

There is no transparency in this troubling case which, as Blum now says, could well be a double murder.

Some hope remains that advanced technology from the second autopsy that took place in Canada on the Belangers may turn up fresh clues.

But the more time passes, the less that seems likely. And if some clues were uncovered, the Canadians may not feel obliged to tell us anyway.

For what it's worth, we think it's disgraceful that the Thai authorities have not taken control of this case and bucked the Canadian diplomats' request for privacy.

When tourists travel, the laws of their home countries don't usually travel with them. In this case, it just happens to suit the Thai authorities to adhere to the Canadian request for privacy.

Caving in to the Canadians indicates the theories about a coverup are probably correct.

For the sake of the families and friends of these young women as well as for the safety of future travellers, we hope that at some point soon, commonsense and common decency prevail.

Listen to Deborah Blum
Tourist Deaths Raise Poison Expert's Suspicions | WBUR & NPR

Deborah Blum's Latest Article
Poison, Tourism, and Still Unanswered Questions in SE Asia
Elemental | Wired Science | Wired.com

**alitongkat** · 22-10-2012, 10:38 PM

Originally Posted by guyinthailand

"...of what appears to be a whole series of female tourist deaths - many linked to symptoms of poison - in both Thailand and Vietnam during the past several years.
...
Comparisons are being struck with the deaths
- in Vietnam of American Kari Bowerman, 27, and Canadian Canadian Cathy Huynh, 26,
- of New Zealander Sarah Carter, 23, and others in Chiang Mai earlier,
- of American Jill St Onge, 27, and Norwegian Julie Bergheim, 22, on Phi Phi in 2009.

just think...

those cases made the news, or are that strange, because it hit TWO (or more) at the same time...

there are many more cases, and most likely males are involved as well...
the single cases get blamed to some other cause of death, or are simply less "spectacular"...

women just dont travel alone, usually...
so, when "it" hits women, then its always a double-fatality...
therefore - many dead women in the news...

thats the mystery... imho...

something out there, that kills... everyone...

and even on the list of victims, its important to mention, that e.g. on phi phi, at the same time FOUR people fell sick with the same symptoms (unrelated, but staying in two attached bungalows)...
one of the norwegian girls survived and the american womens fiance as well...

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