TM30

**Farangrakthai** · 20-08-2019, 07:08 PM

i like the advice on this thread: when you take a holiday in thailand away from your home, have your partner register the room.

sorted...

**Stumpy** · 25-08-2019, 03:14 PM

Originally Posted by Farangrakthai

i like the advice on this thread: when you take a holiday in thailand away from your home, have your partner register the room.

sorted...

Yep. Just did it. Wife set it all up where we are now. Never even asked for my ID. Done.

**Stumpy** · 25-08-2019, 03:23 PM

While not on topic really but I have to say, if I was ever going to leave this country it would not be due to some petty immigration rule. I can tell you though it would be due to all the fkn Chinese that infiltrate this country. They are generally rude, loud, ugly, obnoxious, cheap and stupid.

I am chilling with my wife on a beach and up walk 4 chop suey eatin MFs that hok lugys in the sand. The one older lady is screaming to her daughter who is 3 feet away and their rug rats in tow are running all over like out of control monkeys.

Even my wife said. DAMN CHINESE.

**Hugh Cow** · 26-08-2019, 09:54 AM

No problem for me. I will no longert stay long enough to be bothered by it and am looking at moving most of my (admittedly small) "business interests" out of the country to a more "foreigner friendly" place. Problem solved.

**Fondles** · 26-08-2019, 02:33 PM

Originally Posted by Hugh Cow

No problem for me. I will no longert stay long enough to be bothered by it and am looking at moving most of my (admittedly small) "business interests" out of the country to a more "foreigner friendly" place. Problem solved.

Cya..

**Farangrakthai** · 26-08-2019, 05:56 PM

Originally Posted by JPPR2

While not on topic really but I have to say, if I was ever going to leave this country it would not be due to some petty immigration rule. I can tell you though it would be due to all the fkn Chinese that infiltrate this country. They are generally rude, loud, ugly, obnoxious, cheap and stupid.

I am chilling with my wife on a beach and up walk 4 chop suey eatin MFs that hok lugys in the sand. The one older lady is screaming to her daughter who is 3 feet away and their rug rats in tow are running all over like out of control monkeys.

Even my wife said. DAMN CHINESE.

yep, agree: thailand has always thrown up loops to jump threw and they change all the time. you just have to go with the flow and if you miss a hoop or two, it's usually no big deal.

example: i do my 90 day report online and a couple years i was too late one time to get it confirmed, so for the rest of the year i just stopped doing it: left the country at christmas with no problems.

regarding the chinese: looking forward to them getting bored with thailand (starting to happen).

**Pragmatic** · 26-08-2019, 07:05 PM

Originally Posted by Farangrakthai

regarding the chinese: looking forward to them getting bored with thailand (starting to happen).

Can't say I've witnessed the bad side of the kitchen sinks. Indians are my downers. As in the UK they'll eventually take over Pattaya. You read it here.

**HuangLao** · 26-08-2019, 07:53 PM

Originally Posted by JPPR2

While not on topic really but I have to say, if I was ever going to leave this country it would not be due to some petty immigration rule. I can tell you though it would be due to all the fkn Chinese that infiltrate this country. They are generally rude, loud, ugly, obnoxious, cheap and stupid.

I am chilling with my wife on a beach and up walk 4 chop suey eatin MFs that hok lugys in the sand. The one older lady is screaming to her daughter who is 3 feet away and their rug rats in tow are running all over like out of control monkeys.

Even my wife said. DAMN CHINESE.

Cool your heels, JP.
I suspect all this influx of Chinese tourists type is nothing short of a passing fancy and current fashion that will regress in a short time.

**tomcat** · 29-08-2019, 06:30 AM

TM30: The form getting expats in Thailand into a bureaucratic tangle
(BBC)

Zareeka Gardner says she's reconsidering her decision to live in ThailandThailand has long been an attractive destination for Western expats - where money goes further and can buy a good quality of life. But the revival of an arcane immigration law has angered the expat community and got them questioning their freedoms in Thailand, as George Styllis reports from Bangkok.

"I've been made to feel as if I'm not welcome here," says Zareeka Gardner, a 25-year-old English teacher from the US.
Since arriving in Thailand in April, she has racked up immigration fines totalling 12,400 baht (£330). A large part of that is because her apartment manager failed to promptly file a form saying where she was staying.

Thailand's Immigration Act contains a clause requiring all foreigners to let the authorities know where they're staying at all times.

Previously this job has been done by hotels collecting guests' details, or it was just ignored. But as of March, the government has been applying the law without compromise or exception.
Landlords must notify immigration authorities whenever a foreigner returns home after spending more than 24 hours away from their permanent residence - be it a trip abroad or even leaving the province. The same applies to foreigners married to Thais - their Thai spouse, if they own the house, must file the report.

The form, known as a TM30, must be submitted within 24 hours of the foreigner's arrival or the property owner will be fined. Iif the fine isn't paid, the foreigner will be unable to renew their visa or other permits until that's rectified.

'It's too much'

The process has provoked confusion and consternation across Thailand, prompting caustic cartoons from local newspapers and outrage on social media.

Image caption: The TM30 form is complex and must often be completed in person.

Many have complained of inconsistencies between provincial authorities, and of landlords failing or refusing to fulfil their responsibilities, leaving tenants to pay the fine or risk losing their right to stay in Thailand.
There is an app and a website for the form, but many users have complained of trouble getting access or technical glitches. So they have to visit immigration offices, which can be an all-day affair with confusing forms.
Sebastian Brousseau, CEO of Isaan Lawyers in Nakhon Ratchasima province says he was inundated with questions after the law started being applied. He says the law is regressive.
"I have clients that were in Thailand before, that are leaving Thailand because they feel unwelcome," he says.

Foreigners residing in Thailand must already must report to immigration every 90 days, an order known as TM47. Only those with permanent residency or a special visa are exempt from this and other orders.
"Already they felt it was a burden to fill in the TM47 and now with the TM30, for them, it's too much," said Brousseau.
He has now launched an online petition calling on the government to scrap the law. The petition has gathered nearly 6,000 signatures.
It's not just foreigners who are finding the mounting bureaucracy bothersome.

Suchada Phoisaat, a journalist and entrepreneur, lost a day's work doing the TM30 on her Russian husband's behalf at the immigration department.
"There were long queues - it was annoying. If foreigners or Thais have to do this, we just ask for a proper system to help us save time."

Why now?

The immigration law was introduced in 1979, when Thailand was trying to keep track of an influx of Vietnamese and Cambodian refugees fleeing conflicts at home.

The 2015 attacks on a shrine in Bangkok shocked. Just why the government is enforcing the law now remains unclear since official reasons are flimsy.
Still haunted by the major terrorist attack in Bangkok of 2015, the government says it will help strengthen national security while protecting law-abiding foreigners. "Good guys in, Bad guys out," is its slogan.

Yet by responding to criticism with ways to shortcut the registration process, the government has often undermined its own argument, along with that of it forcing rogue landlords to declare their earnings. Such holes have left foreigners cynical.

Zareeka Gardner says she feels defeated by the system.
Coming from the bureaucracy of China, she felt Thailand would be an easier place to live. But lost in a thicket of vague and contradictory information, without help from her teaching agency, her perception soon changed.
Still without a work permit and hounded about it daily by officials, she has had enough and booked a flight back to China.
During one immigration visit, she says, and official told her he would send police to visit every day "until you are gone".

"I went out and just cried for about half an hour," she says, adding that she knows people who have gone through worse than she has.

Analysts say the new policies could also deter foreigners from travelling around the countryThe growing number of cases like Zareeka's comes at a worrying time for businesses heavily dependent on foreign labour and money. While international tourism should be relatively immune to the immigration law, domestic travel among foreigners is expected to dip.
The economy is already struggling, growing at its slowest rate in nearly five years in the second quarter, and aspirations for it to go digital will not be met with punitive immigration policies, says Amarit Charoenphan, co-founder of HUBBA, a co-working space and community.

Yet the government remains defiant, maintaining the law is necessary.

Speaking at a panel discussion last week at Thailand's Foreign Correspondents' Club, representatives of the immigration department conceded there had been technical problems with filling the TM30 forms online, but once addressed, the process should run smoothly.

But for foreigners like Zareeka, they're wondering if it's worth waiting.
"Sure, it's nice here, but with all the hoops we have to go through, is it really worth it?" she said.

**Loy Toy** · 29-08-2019, 06:33 AM

Originally Posted by Hugh Cow

at moving most of my (admittedly small) "business interests" out of the country to a more "foreigner friendly" place.

Is Australia a foreigner friendly place?

**terry57** · 29-08-2019, 06:44 AM

Sort of rolls like this.

Any punter who has been here any amount of time will know that the TM 30 may eventually be modified to a more friendly format but in the mean time one needs to work with the system as best they can.

The punters who have decided that Thailand is not for them anymore and are going to move to the moon will simply not be missed except in the case where they are the ATM.

The problem with many Farang is they think they are important to Thailand but the reality is they may be important to the few but in the big picture we are simply nothing.

Play Thailands game or leave easy as that.

**tomcat** · 29-08-2019, 07:01 AM

Originally Posted by terry57

Play Thailands game or leave easy as that

...yep...

**Hugh Cow** · 29-08-2019, 07:38 AM

Originally Posted by terry57

Sort of rolls like this.

Any punter who has been here any amount of time will know that the TM 30 may eventually be modified to a more friendly format but in the mean time one needs to work with the system as best they can.

The punters who have decided that Thailand is not for them anymore and are going to move to the moon will simply not be missed except in the case where they are the ATM.

The problem with many Farang is they think they are important to Thailand but the reality is they may be important to the few but in the big picture we are simply nothing.

Play Thailands game or leave easy as that.

Exactly....... In Australia if a foreigner doesn't like the rules we would say fit in or fook off. The Thais are just doing the same. In the end we are all guests here and it is their right to make the rules as is our right to fook off.

**tomcat** · 29-08-2019, 07:41 AM

Originally Posted by Hugh Cow

In the end we are all guests here and it is their right to make the rules as is our right to fook off.

...definitely...although for many foreigners, the swamp is the preferred end of the road...

**Pragmatic** · 29-08-2019, 08:50 AM

Stupid thing about doing a TM 30, or a TM 47, online is that you can be anywhere in the world to submit it. And as I've said before. You let yer missus book in at a Thai hotel. They don't give a shit as to who she bunks up with.

**terry57** · 29-08-2019, 09:25 AM

Yer,

Well there are plenty of punters who get around on their own so the smart money is on doing things the correct way by registering and then doing the TM 30 on line.

TM 30 and 90 day report are a piece of piss once registered in the system.

Seems to be as always the majority of Expats jump on board and do things the correct way whilst the vocal minority keep on bitching and try to game the system by going through the back door.

Such as you.

**tomcat** · 29-08-2019, 09:38 AM

...to be fair: Thai immigration sets up its own backdoors to enhance personal donations...the stricter the applications of immigration (or any other) regulations, the greater number of backdoor activities...

**Pragmatic** · 29-08-2019, 09:51 AM

Originally Posted by terry57

Such as you.

All I was doing was to show that if someone wanted to circumnavigate immigration rules it's piss easy. Does it make it harder for the people that it was created for ??? I'm sure I'm right in saying NO. How many bombings have there been in Thailand since 1979??? I'd say it runs into the thousands. Would enforcing the TM 30 rule have reduced that figure ??? I don't think so. So why enforce the rule now?

The immigration law was introduced in 1979, when Thailand was trying to keep track of an influx of Vietnamese and Cambodian refugees fleeing conflicts at home.

**terry57** · 29-08-2019, 10:52 AM

I suppose because
they have tiny little cocks and this is their way of dishin it up to Whitey. 55555

**tomcat** · 29-08-2019, 12:32 PM

Originally Posted by terry57

they have tiny little cocks

...I bow to your greater experience...

**Hugh Cow** · 29-08-2019, 01:32 PM

Originally Posted by tomcat

...definitely...although for many foreigners, the swamp is the preferred end of the road...

Yes, but there are many more swamps a short plane journey away TC.

**cyrille** · 29-08-2019, 01:58 PM

Story on this on the BBC website.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-49470726

**Norton** · 29-08-2019, 02:00 PM

Originally Posted by cyrille

Story on this on the BBC website.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-49470726

Here as well.

https://teakdoor.com/thai-visas-and-v...ml#post3993352 (TM30)

**jabir** · 29-08-2019, 02:06 PM

Think it through like a glorious Thai leader, scrapping the TM30 implies that a Thai law is inappropriate or outdated, which means loss of face, and they would rather oversee the end of the world that risk that.

**Pragmatic** · 29-08-2019, 02:14 PM

Originally Posted by jabir

Think it through like a glorious Thai leader, scrapping the TM30 implies that a Thai law is inappropriate or outdated, which means loss of face, and they would rather oversee the end of the world that risk that.

Didn't take long for them to back down after imposing a law stating traveling on the back of a pick-up to be illegal. Plus the amount of people allowed to travel in a minibus. They can change the laws, without loss of face, when it suits them.

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