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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seekingasylum View Post
    It is clear that the mandatory health insurance requirement will be required of everyone over 50 legally resident in the Kingdom, either on an annual O-A visa or extension
    Wrong.

    http://teakdoor.com/thai-visas-and-v...ml#post3945288 (Health Insurance Now Required for Long Stay Expats)

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by headhunter View Post
    according to the news [nation] it comes into force in JULY.
    My bad, I thought we was still in May.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fondles View Post
    I can smell the bullshit dribbling down your chin from here.
    OK, what visa/extension do you currently have? Non Imm O visas are valid for 90 days, can be issued internal or external to Thailand (can be 12 months if multi entry, though must leave/re-enter the country every 90 days). Non Imm O visas can be extended for 12 months through reasons of retirement/marriage/dependents, with their respective financial criteria.

    A Non Imm O-A visa is only issued external to Thailand, valid for 12 months, essentially the same financial criteria as for a Non Imm O extension based on retirement. Additional requirements are medical and police clearance certificates, and shortly medical insurance to the published parameters.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by headhunter View Post
    according to the news [nation] it comes into force in JULY.
    Ah, that must be the same Nation whose articles are now littered every paragraph with Expat health insurance ads.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by PAG View Post
    OK, what visa/extension do you currently have? Non Imm O visas are valid for 90 days, can be issued internal or external to Thailand (can be 12 months if multi entry, though must leave/re-enter the country every 90 days). Non Imm O visas can be extended for 12 months through reasons of retirement/marriage/dependents, with their respective financial criteria.

    A Non Imm O-A visa is only issued external to Thailand, valid for 12 months, essentially the same financial criteria as for a Non Imm O extension based on retirement. Additional requirements are medical and police clearance certificates, and shortly medical insurance to the published parameters.
    Thanks for the spiel of what is commonly known.

    Please explain how a Non immigrant O visa is a Tourist visa.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fondles View Post
    Thanks for the spiel of what is commonly known.

    Please explain how a Non immigrant O visa is a Tourist visa.
    You're right, it's not a tourist visa, which is of course valid for 60 days, and can be extended for a further 30 days.

  7. #107
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    Norton, it may be that the introduction of mandatory health insurance is targeted at Non Imm O-A visa applicants in a move to make them less desirable as an alternative to the usual route of Non Imm 'O' followed by an extension application under the ramped up proof of income/funds regime. The thing is, why? It yields no great dividend and affects a tiny proportion of residents - Terry is the only one here under the O-A visa and as he rightly observes his category tends to be folk whose reliance on charitable Thai healthcare is as likely as Prag digging chicks with dicks.
    As much as I would like to think otherwise, this is imminent for all.
    Last edited by Seekingasylum; 16-05-2019 at 11:45 AM.

  8. #108
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    switch
    You chose to commit to Thailand by marrying a local and investing in Thai property. You did this when jumpers were goalposts. Why would you expect any kind of exemption from them, when they move the goalposts, and issue new caveats for your permission to remain?

    You and your wingman have been suckered, and no amount of your word salad can alleviate or change your prospects.

    Get out while you still can. Please, do not come here. No naive angry old wankers needed.
    First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—
    Because I was not a socialist.
    Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—
    Because I was not a trade unionist.
    Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
    Because I was not a Jew.
    Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

    once they have made life difficult or impossible for retirees (or angry old wankers as you call us), they will concentrate their efforts on those foreigners next in line, i.e. those with work permits and those with wives.

    personally i dont think this insurance nonsense will ever come to pass or if it does there will be cheap workarounds.

    the figures for financial losses suffered by hospitals seems bullshit to me. every time i have been to a thai hospital, private or government, and before i have even sat in the queue to see the quack, i have had to present my passport, my visa has been checked and photocopied, i have been photographed and i have had to sign the photocopies, and it is almost impossible to leave the hospital after the consultation or treatment without being either filmed or coughing up....... and we are already charged up to 30% more than locals for the same treatment by the same often arrogant unlistening quacks.

    and if the thai police are able to summon the manpower and resources necessary to apprehend a cctv identified shoplifter or beer mat thief before they exit suwannaphum airport, then surely they should be able to prevent an infirm geriatric from exiting the country in order to avoid payment.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seekingasylum View Post
    As much as I would like to think otherwise, this is imminent for all.
    Highly possible as the rules do change occasionaly but as with most things here in our home away from home, I focus on what need be done to navigate only the next bureaucratic hurdle. Find it far less stressfull than worrying what might be long term.

    Now that kids have been educated and off earning their own way in life, the wife and I are able and free to stay or go from Thailand. However, I am ever mindful of the phase "out of the frying pan into the fire" so before running off to greener pastures it would take a fair bit more than finding a way to comply with a "health insurance" rule.

    Quote Originally Posted by taxexile View Post
    personally i dont think this insurance nonsense will ever come to pass or if it does there will be cheap workarounds.
    My thinking in line with yours Tax.
    Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.

  10. #110
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    what i cant get my head around IS,how come the 3main perpetrators of these proposals can come up with the story of expats on certain visa's are a burden on the health system,WHERE are their no's of farangs on an A-O VISA who are fucking off without paying their hospital bills,is it 1,5,10, or is it in their thick sculls THOUSANDS.
    prposals [22dec.2018] put forward to the next cabinet meeting.

  11. #111
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    Wouldn't surprise me if some cnut at the top of the tree has been fiddling the books. So to cover up the deficit he's decided to blame Johnny Foreigner.

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by headhunter View Post
    story of expats on certain visa's are a burden on the health system

    HH:

    For what it’s worth, actual figures concerning us deadbeat Foreigners taking advantage of our Hosts. Sourced from the department of health.


    from The Nation article “Mandatory health insurance for retirement visa holders likely to take effect in July” By Chularat Saengpassa May 16, 2019

    Mandatory health insurance for retirement visa holders likely to take effect in July

    Bad medical debts from expats have been cited in the move to make health insurance mandatory for foreigners aged 50 and above who are living in Thailand on a one-year long-stay visa.

    2016
    Number of foreign visitors: 32 million
    Number of medical visits by them: 2.6 million
    Number of non-immigrant (O-A) visa holders: 71,288
    Number of unpaid medical bills: 667,000
    Outstanding debt: Bt380 million

    2017
    Number of foreign visitors: 35 million
    Number medical visits by them: 3.3 million
    Number of non-immigrant (O-A) visa holders: 68,696
    Number of unpaid medical bills: 565,000
    Outstanding debt: Bt346 million

    2018
    Number of foreign visitors: 38 million
    Number of medical visits by them: 3.42 million
    Number of non-immigrant (O-A) visa holders: 80,950
    Number of unpaid medical bills: 680,000
    Outstanding debt: Bt305 million

    Proposed mandatory health insurance
    Bt40,000 coverage for outpatient treatment
    Bt400,000 coverage for inpatient treatments

    Source:Department of Health Service Support


    So, analysis/recap: three years 16-18 Thailand had 105 million visitors who made a total of 9.32 medical “visits”.

    Of the 9.32 million visits – 7.408M medical bills were paid. And, 1.912 Million bills went unpaid totaling THB 1,031,000,000. Yup, ‘tis a lot of money. At today’s rate of 31.16/USD = a three-year total of USD $33M or @ $11M/year.

    Now, no reasoning or explanation given on just how approximately 20% of the medical care recipients were able to skip out of the hospital or country without paying their bills. Something seriously wrong with their, the Thailand Medical Services “billing and collection system”.

    However, to amplify on this – the Thais proposed solution is to saddle the O-A visa holders with a mandatory health insurance requirement.

    hmm… lets get a bit deeper int this – the O-A visa holders account for, now get this, a grand total of 220,934/9.32M = @ 2.5% of the total number of visitors.


    Anybody else see a bit of a flaw in this logic?

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by headhunter View Post
    what i cant get my head around IS,how come the 3main perpetrators of these proposals can come up with the story of expats on certain visa's are a burden on the health system,WHERE are their no's of farangs on an A-O VISA who are fucking off without paying their hospital bills,is it 1,5,10, or is it in their thick sculls THOUSANDS.
    prposals [22dec.2018] put forward to the next cabinet meeting.
    They have absolutely NO DATA to support the claims HH. In fact I suspect us long term guys have little, to no, impact to the cost they claim. While I have no data either, my standing is that there are many Tourists that arrive that do stupid shit and get hurt and then potentially skip out. I suspect more are accidents then actual sickness or ailments.

    Also to note, to this date every time I have visited a hospital (3 times or so) for basic ailments, I had to pay in full before I left. I know a few guys that had to have major surgeries and they too had to put a 30% deposit down and the balance upon be released. When do all these medical events happen that foreigners skip out and do not pay. Now I will say that all the Suicides, attempted suicides that leave people in hospitals with huge bills do leave the cost with Thailand.

    They will never show any data because they do not have it. They are just following suit of other developed countries or again I mentioned, its an opportunity to force folks out that they want. I am not against requiring medical insurance or showing a financial bond in the event of an emergency. It makes sense. I always felt that if I could not financially take care of myself then its time to die anyway. I have no intention of spending countless thousands to prolong my life.

  14. #114
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    @ Bowie. I saw that data sometime back but none of it breaks down the tally of how many O-A long stay folks contribute to the loss to Thailand. You have to speculate a % that might. I also question the data because they mandate Foreigners of all races pay before the service is performed. So how in the hell do they 600,000 unpaid bills. Someone is doctoring numbers to support their decision.

    The fact of the matter is they want to implement the new rule to control who stays and who goes and generate a revenue stream for insurance companies. Next up is the Lawyer rush working on contingency

  15. #115
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    As far as many/most Thais are concerned, all farang are tourists.

    The length of stay can vary from a few hours to decades, but that is what they remain.

    Those at the far end of that spectrum are less desirable because they have less money, are less good looking and are probably dodgy if they like Thailand. The lowest of the low may even speak Thai and be wary of rip offs.

    Once one is reconciled to this perception, and the nationwide insecurities they are based on, things get a lot less stressful.

    These changes will either never happen or will be sporadically 'enforced', with at least one visa outlet where they are never enforced at all.

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyrille View Post
    As far as many/most Thais are concerned, all farang are tourists.
    You are absolutely right, Maybe not tourists but clearly visitors. How long one wants to stay is up to them. They do not care if you come or go. Long stayers really contribute very little, especially married to a Thai. They always do things cheaply looking for discounts etc. Tourism is where the money is and they will always cater to it.

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    thanks once again bowie,no mention in the report by the dept of health how much of the debt is down to TOURISTS.
    most or a big % of expats here on long term visa's as they call them,have some sort of assets,dont they take into account their partners can cover most bills if needed.
    so why don't they take this into account,a married farang is entitled to 50% of any assets that their partners accured through marriage.
    they have the no's of 305million bht.debt so last yr.they had 38million tourists,they are NOT expats on long term visa's.
    it does seem those calcalators they bought ought to go with them bomb detectors.
    I just wonder what will happen when a farang on the same type of visa with a 1yr.extension hasnt or not had the eqv.of a 400,000bht.balance in their acc.
    because I havnt seen the reason given by immigration WHY 800k.2months before then 3months after ext.then a balance of 400k.for the rest of your life in a thai.bank.
    because this is not only for them on retirement but all on the 800k.route.is there no mention of them that go the 400k.marriage route or is that goner come LATER.
    to differate between them that are married and go the 800k.route and the tuther that go the 400k.route WHATS THE DIFFERENCE.[NONE]
    I wonder if they will take into account that I have been married for 30yrs.TO THE SAME ONE.
    HH.BEGINING TO ENJOY THIS FK.UP.

    .

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyrille View Post
    These changes will either never happen or will be sporadically 'enforced'
    I figure they will "implement" additional mandatory insurance requirements - enforcement, as is always the case, will remain sporadic with a variety of avenues for work arounds. The inconvenience(s) will impact legit folk.

    'tis about the money -

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by headhunter View Post
    expats here on long term visa's
    HH, I personally believe expats here on long term visa's pay their hospital bills. My visits to Thai hospitals are always well documented by the hospital admin/staff, the billing is straight forward with detailed cost provided. And, I've always paid my full bill before leaving the hospital grounds.

    The only scenario that makes sense to me is a tourist accident victim some how "verbally" scamming their way out of the hospital or some how paying fraudulently.

    The statistical figures are always manipulated to provide whatever position or point-of-view the presenter want's to aver.
    Last edited by bowie; 17-05-2019 at 10:09 AM. Reason: typo

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by JPPR2 View Post
    They have absolutely NO DATA to support the claims HH. In fact I suspect us long term guys have little, to no, impact to the cost they claim. While I have no data either, my standing is that there are many Tourists that arrive that do stupid shit and get hurt and then potentially skip out. I suspect more are accidents then actual sickness or ailments.

    Also to note, to this date every time I have visited a hospital (3 times or so) for basic ailments, I had to pay in full before I left. I know a few guys that had to have major surgeries and they too had to put a 30% deposit down and the balance upon be released. When do all these medical events happen that foreigners skip out and do not pay. Now I will say that all the Suicides, attempted suicides that leave people in hospitals with huge bills do leave the cost with Thailand.

    They will never show any data because they do not have it. They are just following suit of other developed countries or again I mentioned, its an opportunity to force folks out that they want. I am not against requiring medical insurance or showing a financial bond in the event of an emergency. It makes sense. I always felt that if I could not financially take care of myself then its time to die anyway. I have no intention of spending countless thousands to prolong my life.
    I am with you all the way,i can cover most if not all that comes my way,but after experiencing the incompetence of 2017/2018 at a hospital there is no way I will let the wife lower the bucket down the well.i will take it as it comes and fk.the pain.i have had the best part of 35yrs.HAPPY AS A PIG IN SHIT I wont mention my beloved dog you all read my take on him [rip].so when my time comes to join him,the only time the wife will have to fork out is for THE TRIP TO THE TEMPLE.

  21. #121
    Thailand Expat Pragmatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by headhunter View Post
    when my time comes to join him,the only time the wife will have to fork out is for THE TRIP TO THE TEMPLE.
    So you've not considered donating your body to medical research then? Advantage is that they pay for the cremation once they finish with you. No expenses for the missus.

  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pragmatic View Post
    Advantage is that they pay for the cremation once they finish with you. No expenses for the missus.
    Hey Prag, aren't you in the Mooban Burn party lottery deal in your area? I am in it with my FIL and wife. Few baht every once in awhile then when I croak they rent those portable covers, the red chairs and block off the street.

  23. #123
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    I have no idea why anyone is bothering to question the Thai motivation in this debate.
    They are simply exploiting an ill-researched and poorly understood phenomenon in order to mine more money from a lucrative source. The so-called data supporting the contention O-A visa holders are somehow responsible in part for unpaid hospital debts is of course mere gibberish.
    From an empirical study using anecdotal sources, and using our own common sense ( we have no other tools - this is Thailand after all), it is clear that the greater proportion of debt stems from tourists who incur medical expenses that are not paid either through subsequent credit card default, or, and I suspect that this is a significant factor, the patient has died after intensive care and there are no relatives or third parties available to defray those expenses.
    So, how can they mitigate this and make a profit?
    The obvious wheeze is to hammer the O-A applicants and if that is implemented efficiently and no one moans too much then extend to cover all 'O' retirees and spouses. They can't do much about the 30 million visitors but they can certainly leech off the captive farang and make a]it a condition of their extension applications.

  24. #124
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    I thought the 400k gift to capitalise the banks was on the pretence of a required backstop for potential medical needs, that the 800k scam or scheme was to ensure everyone has enough money to live on even though you're not allow to use it and must prove you can afford to throw away 800k for half of each year, and that the purge was intended to reduce/eliminate immigration corruption.


    Done well, 10/10, our glorious leaders are indeed glorious and very much so.

    After deep thought I reckon nearby territories that actually respect 3W needs for farang patronage have sent our glorious leaders sealed parcels of cash notes to purge foreign communities in the hope that some go their way, or perhaps there's an even more logical explanation for the latest nonsense.

  25. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seekingasylum View Post
    I have no idea why anyone is bothering to question the Thai motivation in this debate.
    They are simply exploiting an ill-researched and poorly understood phenomenon in order to mine more money from a lucrative source. The so-called data supporting the contention O-A visa holders are somehow responsible in part for unpaid hospital debts is of course mere gibberish.
    From an empirical study using anecdotal sources, and using our own common sense ( we have no other tools - this is Thailand after all), it is clear that the greater proportion of debt stems from tourists who incur medical expenses that are not paid either through subsequent credit card default, or, and I suspect that this is a significant factor, the patient has died after intensive care and there are no relatives or third parties available to defray those expenses.
    So, how can they mitigate this and make a profit?
    The obvious wheeze is to hammer the O-A applicants and if that is implemented efficiently and no one moans too much then extend to cover all 'O' retirees and spouses. They can't do much about the 30 million visitors but they can certainly leech off the captive farang and make a]it a condition of their extension applications.
    Gunna be fuck all money to be had from Farangs if they source their insurance from abroad....... which the dumb fucks should already have to begin with.

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