No more Brit Embassy income certification letters!

**headhunter** · 21-11-2018, 09:37 AM

Originally Posted by Pragmatic

^
So it's my fault for being too wealthy that they look down on me? If I was Thai and wealthy then they'd be wai-ing me left right and center without a doubt. Which leads me to believe they really do not want us here. And they go out of their way to show it by nit picking on genuine expats. Whereas they seem a different person if an extension is being obtained under the table. I wonder why that is?

I have to agree with you PRAG. maybe its the change from 2k. [100bht] I tell them to keep seems to work for me,as I am always glad to get out as quick as possible,the last 2 ext.same officer same 100bht.in the evelope,but I have been at the old imms.places where agents have been in front of me with bags full of passports,unfilled forms and HEAPS OF GOODIES.lets see if this stops FRIDAY.

**Humbert** · 21-11-2018, 09:38 AM

Originally Posted by Pragmatic

I never said it had to do with the local office. I said it was 'Division 4', of which Korat, Buriram and Kap Cheong come under

Originally Posted by Pragmatic

I've never had dealings with BKK immigration, only Division 4 out here in Buriram, Korat and Kap Cheong, over the years, and I find them very obnoxious. Never a year goes by where there isn't some kinda problem when visiting their offices. They neither do the 90 day report by mail or online.

I guess I misunderstood. When you said offices I thought you meant Buriram, Korat and Kap Cheong offices. Apparently you are dealing with the division office headquarters and not the local offices as I said.

**Pragmatic** · 21-11-2018, 09:43 AM

Originally Posted by headhunter

i cant drive i have to get someone to do the job.

Which leads me to ask. Sorry for going off topic. If ones health deteriorates whereby one cannot go to ones immigration office what are the rules? Not that I'm ill but my missus doesn't know what the procedure is.

**Pragmatic** · 21-11-2018, 09:53 AM

Originally Posted by Humbert

I guess I misunderstood. When you said offices I thought you meant Buriram, Korat and Kap Cheong offices. Apparently you are dealing with the division office headquarters and not the local offices as I said.

It is easily misunderstood due to the amount of times Division 4 has relocated over the last 13 years. 13 years ago there was only one office to do your extension, Kap Cheong. Now there are 4 offices in Division 4. I now use either of the 2 offices in Buriram.

**headhunter** · 21-11-2018, 09:57 AM

Originally Posted by Pragmatic

Which leads me to ask. Sorry for going off topic. If ones health deteriorates whereby one cannot go to ones immigration office what are the rules? Not that I'm ill but my missus doesn't know what the procedure is.

many times I have asked the same,i do know on another forum a well respected member has to go there in a wheelchair,and others have said ambulance's have turned up with patients.last yr.when I was having seizure's every day till new meds.stopped them [may 2018] they wouldn't help my.mrs at all.eg.doctors letter on the day of the visit.

**Pragmatic** · 21-11-2018, 10:01 AM

^
Because this is going off topic I'll start a new thread.

**Norton** · 21-11-2018, 10:04 AM

Originally Posted by Pragmatic

If ones health deteriorates whereby one cannot go to ones immigration office what are the rules?

Don't know if there are specific rules but years back at Suan Phlu they allowed someone with a signed letter giving permission from the person getting the extension along with all the required forms pre signed by applicant.

**Pragmatic** · 21-11-2018, 10:09 AM

^
New thread started.

**Humbert** · 29-11-2018, 09:43 AM

I received this email from Democrats Abroad Thailand yesterday concerning the upcoming visa procedure issues.

Dear Americans Abroad in Thailand,

Happy belated Thanksgiving, I hope you all had a chance to enjoy the holiday with family and friends.

As a service to our members and their American friends, DA Thailand is providing a report compiled by our DAT Vice-Chair Gary Suwannarat, who recently attended a town hall organized on November 20, 2018, by the US Consulate in Chiang Mai.

Please note that this is provided to alert members to upcoming changes but does not constitute legal advice; questions about your particular situation and circumstances should be addressed to Thai Immigration officers or to immigration lawyers.

This affects those living in Thailand on retirement visas. US Consular Offices (as well as those of the UK and Australia) will no longer notarize income certifications after December 31, 2018.

Gary Suwannarat’s report is as follows:

Chiang Mai US Consul General Jennifer Harhigh and overall Thailand Consul General Timothy Scherer spoke to some 200 Americans concerned about this upcoming change in income certification procedures for Americans applying for retirement visas, or renewal of an expiring retirement visa. This impacts many of the estimated 70,000-75,000 Americans on long-term visas in Thailand, some 20,000 of whom are served by the Chiang Mai Consulate, covering the CM Consular District from Chiang Rai in the north to Pichit, Pitasanuloke and Tak in the south.

Scherer indicated that there is no change in Thai law. However, as part of a global review of US consular operations, it was found that US consular offices in Thailand issue an unusually high number of income affidavits. This was raised in consular dialogue with Thai authorities, who then realized that the notarized affidavit affirms only that the named citizen appeared before a US Consular officer, but does not constitute proof of income, as required by Thai law as detailed in Police Order 777/2551, which governs visa approvals. (See partial translated text below.) Similar changes are reported regarding the UK and Australia, and in the offing for citizens of other countries who have significant populations of retired persons living in Thailand.

The US Embassy and the Immigration Division held discussions regarding how to ease the transition to new regulations, resulting in the Thai Immigration Division extending the validity of notarized income certification for 6 months from date of notarization. Notarization obtained by December 31, 2018 will be accepted until end-June, 2019. (Note: the Consular calendar in Chiang Mai is filling up fast.)

Follow-up comments indicated that the Chiang Mai Immigration Office earlier this year instituted a requirement of proof of income, supporting the Consular-notarized income affidavit. (Note: My contact with Chiang Mai Immigration officials indicates that they want both the Consulate notarization and back-up documentation.) Scherer acknowledged that Immigration Offices around Thailand exercise discretion in applying regulations, so there may be some inconsistencies.

One commenter said he had asked his US bank to provide a statement which summed his variable income for the year, reported as average monthly income, which was accepted for retirement visa purposes. Scherer stressed the importance of obtaining bank documents that, like this case, indicate as clearly as possible that income meets the Thai criteria.
Scherer further indicated that Embassy officials are working with Thai Immigration officials to familiarize them with financial reporting formats of the Social Security Administration, Veterans Affairs and major firms managing IRAs. The value of using standard income and retirement income reports (1099 and 1099-R) was mentioned.

Audience members applauded the suggestion that the Embassy work with the government to get acceptance of forms with personal identifying information not required for visa purposes redacted or blacked out as protection against identity theft.

The "combination" method (including both monthly income and Thai bank deposits) will still be accepted for justification of individual retirement visa extensions. For spousal visa extensions, inquire of Thai Immigration authorities or an Immigration lawyer.

Questions and discussion indicated that ANY source of income could be considered, not just pension income. In meetings with Thai Immigration, the U.S. officials have stressed that Americans have many sources of income (many not at regular intervals) to support themselves in retirement -- rental income, investments, withdrawals from trusts, and much more in additional to traditional government pensions like SS and VA. There was one report of someone in Chiang Mai receiving income at irregular intervals, so he printed out all deposits to his U.S. bank account over the course of a year and showed Thai immigration how it was more than 800,000 baht a year and this was accepted.

There was concern from several expat-expat married couples who each have been maintaining individual retirement visas, where one receives less than 65,000 baht and the other more than 65,000 baht, but the total exceeded 130,000 baht. Would it be possible for the wife to obtain a dependent or "family" visa? U.S. officials were unable to answer this question about how Thai immigration will handle dependent visas going forward. Again, speak to a Thai Immigration official or immigration lawyer.

Thai Police Order 777/255: Unofficial translation (available online):
•Retirement visa application requires proof of income of not less than 65,000/month OR
•Thai bank account deposit of baht 800,000 at least 2 months prior to INITIALLY applying for a retirement visa; at least 3 months prior to application for retirement visa renewal OR
•Annual income plus bank account deposit totaling not less than baht 800,000 as of the filing date for retirement visa.

Thank you to Gary for volunteering to go to the meeting and file this report to share with the DAT membership. So, to summarize, the only real advice that DAT can provide to you is the following:
1.Get the income affirmation notarized by the Embassy before year end if your visa expires before June 30, 3019. (Note that appointment slots at the consulate are filling up fast.)
2.Ensure others you know are also made aware of these changes.
3.For advice about specific cases, either talk to a Thai Immigration officer or an immigration lawyer

I hope that this is helpful to our members who have retired in Thailand on a retirement visa and will be affected by this situation.

With best wishes,

Phil Robertson
Chairperson, Democrats Abroad Thailand (DAT)
Email: DemocratsAbroadThailand@gmail.com

Democrats Abroad Thailand
http://www.democratsabroad.org/

**Dragonfly** · 29-11-2018, 10:41 AM

so in short,

some overzealous US employee in Washington noticed some odd volume for affidavits in Thailand, and start asking questions, and that lead him or her to Thai immigration authorities who are then told by said US employee that the affidavit have no use for income verification

You bet the Thais got angry over this, and all the fuckup brought to you by another American Pentagon employee

**Switch** · 29-11-2018, 11:41 AM

Immigration Offices around Thailand exercise discretion in applying regulations, so there may be some inconsistencies.

Lulz

**Norton** · 29-11-2018, 11:54 AM

Originally Posted by Switch

Immigration Offices around Thailand exercise discretion in applying regulations, so there may be some inconsistencies.

Lulz

Always. I posted earlier that the Roiet office will accept a Thai bank statement showing money transfers in that average 65,000 baht per month over a 1 year period.

Everyone should go to their office and find out what they will accept.

**headhunter** · 29-11-2018, 12:08 PM

i still dont know what everyone are huffin &puffin about,every immigration office excepts a bank letter/with your acc.bank pass book showing an up to date balance,so a pass book showing a monthly amount being sent to your bank should be no different to one showing a lump sum as long as its 65,000bht.or the tuther per.month.so a statement from your country that shows the required amount or the thai bank statement is all thats needed.

**Dragonfly94** · 29-11-2018, 12:21 PM

It's only the liars and fraudsters who have shit their pants!

**Norton** · 29-11-2018, 12:26 PM

Originally Posted by Dragonfly94

It's only the liars and fraudsters who have shit their pants!

Agree 100%.

**Humbert** · 29-11-2018, 12:40 PM

Originally Posted by Norton

Always. I posted earlier that the Roiet office will accept a Thai bank statement showing money transfers in that average 65,000 baht per month over a 1 year period.
Everyone should go to their office and find out what they will accept.

Absolutely. This will affect those who were able to use the embassy letters without other proof of income. Those of us furnishing both income verification from bank deposits AND an embassy letter will actually probably find the whole process easier.

**Norton** · 29-11-2018, 12:50 PM

Will save me a trip to BKK. All good as far as I am concerned.

**Dragonfly** · 29-11-2018, 01:45 PM

Originally Posted by Dragonfly94

It's only the liars and fraudsters who have shit their pants!

looks like it,

**bowie** · 29-11-2018, 01:56 PM

Originally Posted by Dragonfly94

It's only the liars and fraudsters who have shit their pants!

on the basis of the amount of air play this topic receives must be a ton of 'em.

certainly keepin' the "under-the-tablers" dancin'

**OhOh** · 29-11-2018, 11:23 PM

Originally Posted by Humbert

I received this email from Democrats Abroad Thailand yesterday concerning the upcoming visa procedure issues.

Thank you for the informative post, most welcome.

Originally Posted by Humbert

Scherer further indicated that Embassy officials are working with Thai Immigration officials to familiarize them with financial reporting formats of the Social Security Administration, Veterans Affairs and major firms managing IRAs. The value of using standard income and retirement income reports (1099 and 1099-R) was mentioned.

It appears the US Embassy have started a list of possible documents the Thais would find acceptable "verification" of "income". One wonders when the UK embassy will, create and have accepted by the Thai authorities, a similar list.

Originally Posted by headhunter

so a statement from your country that shows the required amount or the thai bank statement is all thats needed.

Care to state the number of foreign banks statement and passbook designs, your local TIO will find acceptable?

Originally Posted by Humbert

Those of us furnishing both income verification from bank deposits

True, if a Thai bank, will foreign bank statements be as acceptable?

**pseudolus** · 29-11-2018, 11:30 PM

Originally Posted by OhOh

It appears the US Embassy have started a list of possible documents the Thais would find acceptable "verification" of "income". One wonders when the UK embassy will, create and have accepted by the Thai authorities, a similar list.

Never. They really genuinely do not give a flying fuck about UK people abroad.

**toddaniels** · 30-11-2018, 05:57 AM

Originally Posted by headhunter

i still dont know what everyone are huffin &puffin about,every immigration office excepts a bank letter/with your acc.bank pass book showing an up to date balance,so a pass book showing a monthly amount being sent to your bank should be no different to one showing a lump sum as long as its 65,000bht.or the tuther per.month.so a statement from your country that shows the required amount or the thai bank statement is all thats needed.

Sadly you are mistaken in your sweeping generalization of what you imagine will work as far as monthly income.

RIGHT NOW <- read and understand that okay? There is NO way to show deposits of 65K baht a month into your account as a way to meet the financial requirement if you are using the income method WITHOUT using the income affidavit from your consulate as well, period, end of story.

There is NOT one single immigration office in the country that will accept monthly transfers in from abroad of 65K as proof.

They ALL require the notarized statement from your consulate AND truth be told it's the consulate letter that carries the weight.

Also no one knows what the new policy will be, how it will be written, or more importantly how it will be implemented across the 75 or so immigration offices in the country.

**tomcat** · 30-11-2018, 06:31 AM

...here's an idea: Immigration produces a form (more paper!) to be used nationwide that law-abiding foreigners can take to a bank for income certification. It will of course be decorated with an official bank stamp and an impressive signature and returned to officialdom as proof of overseas deposits that satisfy the monthly/yearly income requirements...

**Norton** · 30-11-2018, 06:34 AM

Originally Posted by toddaniels

Also no one knows what the new policy will be

Indeed. All speculation so far. Even if some such as I have checked with local office.

**headhunter** · 30-11-2018, 09:44 AM

[QUOTE=toddaniels;3863446]Sadly you are mistaken in your sweeping generalization of what you imagine will work as far as monthly income.

RIGHT NOW <- read and understand that okay? There is NO way to show deposits of 65K baht a month into your account as a way to meet the financial requirement if you are using the income method WITHOUT using the income affidavit from your consulate as well, period, end of story.

There is NOT one single immigration office in the country that will accept monthly transfers in from abroad of 65K as proof.

I don't understand when you say,NOT ONE SINGLE IMM.OFFICE WOULD EXCEPT MONTHLY TRANS.FROM ABROAD AS PROOF.

if a bank statement showing the transfers which is shown in your thai.bank pass book,ISNT THAT PROOF.

if money is sent from abroad to Thailand someone has got to have a record.
my uk.pensions are sent to my receiving bank in the uk.i only have to go online and get a print out of the transactions THERE'S YOUR PROOF.
as I only do one trans.every yr.there if I needed to give the proof to imm.ITS THERE IN BLACK AND WHITE IN MY THAI BANK ACC.PASS BOOK.
my retirement ext.amount has been in a fixed acc.for over 8yrs.never been a problem,but I have been asked what I live on,so I show them my other pass book with an entry every yr.with a monthly amount drawn out of it as proof of what I live on.
so TD.i don't understand what you are trying to say that imm.wont except proof from an acc.abroad.or one showing for eg.65k.bht.sent to Thailand by your income provider every month.a letter from your consulate is no different to a letter from a thai bank.

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