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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by David48atTD View Post
    Mate, have a read of this thread ... http://teakdoor.com/thai-visas-and-v...-how-does.html (2 passports - Thai and US - how does it work for travel?)

    I never knew that ...

    "DUAL CITIZENSHIP: NOT RECOGNIZED. Exceptions: Child born abroad to Thai parents, who obtains the citizenship of the foreign country of birth, may retain dual citizenship until reaching the age of majority (18). At this point, person must choose which citizenship to retain."
    Pragmatic gave me the heads and the original article is here
    The information on that Website, at least the information regarding the Thai situation, is totally incorrect.

    Although the Thai Nationality legislation does not specifically allow Dual Nationality, nor does it specifically legislate against it, all it states is that during the year after a Dual Citizen reaches the age of 20 he / she MAY choose to renounce their Thai Citizenship; it is not an obligation and there is no penalty for not doing so.

    Most Dual Citizens simply do nothing and continue to hold Dual Nationality.

    You can also be confident that there is virtually NO chance of Dual Citizenship ever being legislated against in Thailand. Literally thousands of Thais hold Dual Citizenship - many of them in positions of power or influence - and they want the status quo to continue. (I once did an informal survey of Thai friends at the RBSC, and more than 30 percent either held Dual (or in some cases Multiple) citizenships or had children who did).

    Patrick
    Quite right Patrick.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainNemo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ChalkyDee View Post

    lol, what a heap of baloney!

    It is possible to have dual citizenship - who told you otherwise?

    Do you think someone going for Thai citizenship can't speak Thai lol?
    Your lolling isn't remotely convincing. If you can read, then read the law, it's quoted earlier. If you think it says something different from what the letters and words on the page actually say in real life, then please explain with quotes... it's can't be that hard.

    This isn't a willy-waving competition, this is simply about reading and establishing the facts. All you have presented is a claim from a lawyer who you are paying money to, without any actual substantiation in fact in any way whatsoever at all, ever.

    You may speak Thai, I may speak Thai, but neither you nor I are native speakers, and someone can still make your life difficult in a second language, no matter how fluent you think you are. Large documents, scribbly handwriting, talking fast etc...

    I don't mind if you want to pay someone to tell you what you want to hear, but I do think if you're attempting to post it on here as if it's fact, it needs challenging for simple corroboration. Just prove it... that's all! What's so difficult about that?!

    You seem to be misinterpreting this challenge as something personal, and whilst evading answering simple questions and trying to distract with responses that are not about the topic but just look like personalisation of what is a simple question.

    Why don't you just scroll back through all the questions I've asked you; filter out all your silly remarks; and just front up with up-to-date, credible facts. I'm sure lots of people would like to know what the facts are about this question, and not anything else.
    Firstly, I am paying no lawyer.
    Next, you are wrong and just can't admit it. Thailand allows Dual Citizenship, so does the UK, there is absolutely no question about this.
    Also, are you seriously saying that I should think of not getting citizenship for the country I've lived in for 25 years because someone might try to talk fast to me
    I stopped listening to anything you had to offer as your first posted showed as some kind of ignorant troll, suggesting I get a sex change. Go find another thread to meet your agenda, whatever that may be.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChalkyDee View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by David48atTD View Post
    Mate, have a read of this thread ... http://teakdoor.com/thai-visas-and-v...-how-does.html (2 passports - Thai and US - how does it work for travel?)

    I never knew that ...
    "DUAL CITIZENSHIP: NOT RECOGNIZED. Exceptions: Child born abroad to Thai parents, who obtains the citizenship of the foreign country of birth, may retain dual citizenship until reaching the age of majority (18). At this point, person must choose which citizenship to retain."
    Pragmatic gave me the heads and the original article is here
    The information on that Website, at least the information regarding the Thai situation, is totally incorrect.

    Although the Thai Nationality legislation does not specifically allow Dual Nationality, nor does it specifically legislate against it, all it states is that during the year after a Dual Citizen reaches the age of 20 he / she MAY choose to renounce their Thai Citizenship; it is not an obligation and there is no penalty for not doing so.

    Most Dual Citizens simply do nothing and continue to hold Dual Nationality.

    You can also be confident that there is virtually NO chance of Dual Citizenship ever being legislated against in Thailand. Literally thousands of Thais hold Dual Citizenship - many of them in positions of power or influence - and they want the status quo to continue. (I once did an informal survey of Thai friends at the RBSC, and more than 30 percent either held Dual (or in some cases Multiple) citizenships or had children who did).

    Patrick
    Quite right Patrick.
    Agreed ... I was wrong.

    Had just read that article and thought of ChalkyDee and I posted in haste.

    I did some more search and what you write Patrick is closer to to the facts.

    Over in http://teakdoor.com/living-in-thaila...ml#post3466348 (Thai Military Service / Conscription and the Luk Kreung), I explained what I found and should have come back here and corrected it.

    Apologies
    Perspective is everything ... it's the difference between going through an ordeal or going through an adventure..

  4. #104
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    I have two children aged over 30 with dual nationality and have also gone through 90% of the procedure of obtaining Thai nationality myself. Patrick is entirely correct in everything he has advised.

  5. #105
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    Capt Nemo; you just won't give this a rest will you?

    First off, are you reading the rules as they're written in thai? I'm not talking about some b/s unauthorized engrish translation by "Somchai's law firm" written for foreigners.

    The rules in thai specifically state that when a thai national holding dual citizenship turns 18 and IS ASKED they must pick one or the other.
    But I have yet to find a single verifiable case where anyone was ever asked.

    As far as naturalized thais. They do sign a paper stating IF ASKED they intend to give up their original citizenship, but no one is ever asked.

    Post the exact sections of the rules in thai which support your argument and I might, as in just maybe, believe you. Note, DON'T post the entire novel of rules, I have that. Post just the sections which support your argument..

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shy Guava View Post
    I have two children aged over 30 with dual nationality and have also gone through 90% of the procedure of obtaining Thai nationality myself. Patrick is entirely correct in everything he has advised.
    Thanks, your input is very welcome.

  7. #107
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    One problem I have at the moment is that the Special Branch officer(there's only 1 in my province) is reluctant to help me, saying the guy who did this before has moved on. He said he'd call me back but never has in over 2 months.
    Any advice as how to educate him? I thought of a good brand of whisky or reporting him to Bangkok. My wife, with her grengjainess just wants to wait.

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by toddaniels View Post
    Capt Nemo; you just won't give this a rest will you?

    First off, are you reading the rules as they're written in thai? I'm not talking about some b/s unauthorized engrish translation by "Somchai's law firm" written for foreigners.

    The rules in thai specifically state that when a thai national holding dual citizenship turns 18 and IS ASKED they must pick one or the other.
    But I have yet to find a single verifiable case where anyone was ever asked.

    As far as naturalized thais. They do sign a paper stating IF ASKED they intend to give up their original citizenship, but no one is ever asked.

    Post the exact sections of the rules in thai which support your argument and I might, as in just maybe, believe you. Note, DON'T post the entire novel of rules, I have that. Post just the sections which support your argument..
    Hi Todd,

    Great Post, however:

    I'd just like to point out I don't think that anywhere in the Thai Nationality Act is the "age of 18" ever mentioned.

    One of the references to age that I can find in that Legislation is :

    Section 14.18

    A person of Thai nationality, who was born of an alien father or mother
    and has acquired the nationality of his father or mother according to law on nationality of his father or mother, or a person who acquires Thai nationality under Section 12 paragraph two or Section 12/1 (2) and (3) may, if he desires to retain his other nationality, make a declaration of his intention to renounce his Thai nationality within one year after his attaining the age of twenty years, according to such form and in the manner as prescribed in the Ministerial Regulations.


    There are a couple of other references but they all refer to "within one year after his attaining the age of twenty years".

    However there is some confusion / discussion about the word "may" which implies choice - some translations render it as "shall" which implies compulsion.

    I'll look up the actual Thai version later!

    Patrick
    Last edited by Patrick; 28-02-2017 at 12:21 PM.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChalkyDee View Post
    One problem I have at the moment is that the Special Branch officer(there's only 1 in my province) is reluctant to help me, saying the guy who did this before has moved on. He said he'd call me back but never has in over 2 months.
    Any advice as how to educate him? I thought of a good brand of whisky or reporting him to Bangkok. My wife, with her grengjainess just wants to wait.
    In my case, the colonel handling it had an NCO as an aide. He was the one who cut all the deals. I had to give him a second hand engine for his pickup and in return got the interview lined up with all the questions in advance (he wrote them for the chief) and assurances that a glowing report would be forwarded to Bangkok, which he did.

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shy Guava View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ChalkyDee View Post
    One problem I have at the moment is that the Special Branch officer(there's only 1 in my province) is reluctant to help me, saying the guy who did this before has moved on. He said he'd call me back but never has in over 2 months.
    Any advice as how to educate him? I thought of a good brand of whisky or reporting him to Bangkok. My wife, with her grengjainess just wants to wait.
    In my case, the colonel handling it had an NCO as an aide. He was the one who cut all the deals. I had to give him a second hand engine for his pickup and in return got the interview lined up with all the questions in advance (he wrote them for the chief) and assurances that a glowing report would be forwarded to Bangkok, which he did.
    Interesting. Was this in Bangkok? So I suppose it is normal. Actually, when speaking to SB in Bkk, they said that the process could be made more like 1 year instead of 3 and mentioned a 6 figure sum. She didn't say the exact amount though.

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChalkyDee View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Shy Guava View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ChalkyDee View Post
    One problem I have at the moment is that the Special Branch officer(there's only 1 in my province) is reluctant to help me, saying the guy who did this before has moved on. He said he'd call me back but never has in over 2 months.
    Any advice as how to educate him? I thought of a good brand of whisky or reporting him to Bangkok. My wife, with her grengjainess just wants to wait.
    In my case, the colonel handling it had an NCO as an aide. He was the one who cut all the deals. I had to give him a second hand engine for his pickup and in return got the interview lined up with all the questions in advance (he wrote them for the chief) and assurances that a glowing report would be forwarded to Bangkok, which he did.
    Interesting. Was this in Bangkok? So I suppose it is normal. Actually, when speaking to SB in Bkk, they said that the process could be made more like 1 year instead of 3 and mentioned a 6 figure sum. She didn't say the exact amount though.
    No, it was in the province. There was about another 20K to move it further through Special Branch in Bangkok.

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChalkyDee View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Luigi View Post
    Has anyone here gone through this process?
    Lord no.


    What do you need? 3 (or 5?) years of continuous extensions, Por Hok certificate in Thai, and 180k baht?

    Or something like that. What have ya got mate? Would be interesting to hear.
    3 years of paying tax on more than 40k a month. No Thai language qualifications and 5,000 baht. Plus 5,000 baht to charity. Also show 80,000 in your bank account.
    Simple really, if you are married to a Thai.
    I've heard that its not as simply as you are making out. It's my understanding that they do test your Thai language skills.

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by surinboy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ChalkyDee View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Luigi View Post
    Has anyone here gone through this process?
    Lord no.


    What do you need? 3 (or 5?) years of continuous extensions, Por Hok certificate in Thai, and 180k baht?

    Or something like that. What have ya got mate? Would be interesting to hear.
    3 years of paying tax on more than 40k a month. No Thai language qualifications and 5,000 baht. Plus 5,000 baht to charity. Also show 80,000 in your bank account.
    Simple really, if you are married to a Thai.
    I've heard that its not as simply as you are making out. It's my understanding that they do test your Thai language skills.
    Yes, they do but it is only for 20 points out of a total of 100.

    You only need 50 points to be accepted.

  14. #114
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    The thai language portion of it is NOT that important in the grand scheme of things.

    A good american friend of mine who's had Permanent Residence status here for eons, finally went thru the process. He can't speak thai for shit, yet passed because his overall score was high enough to meet the minimum points needed..

  15. #115
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    Of course most of you who don't legally work here wouldn't qualify for thai citizenship just based on having a thai wife anyway.

    Plus you'd need to "muck around" with unbroken yearly extensions of stays based either on valid employment or on marriage to a thai national for the requisite years needed too.

    That pretty much rules out ANYONE on a year long multi-entry visa OR on a yearly extension of stay based on retirement.

  16. #116
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    Got a call from special branch earlier today. They will send someone around to my house in Lamlukka sometime after Songkran. They said that they will want to interview my neighbours while they are there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barty View Post
    Got a call from special branch earlier today. They will send someone around to my house in Lamlukka sometime after Songkran. They said that they will want to interview my neighbours while they are there.
    Great. I went to the Special Branch in Bkk this week to ask about the submission of the documents. They said nobody had ever done it from Khon Kaen, so I am the "test case".
    They said not to submit the first documents to Special Branch but to someone at the Amphur!

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChalkyDee View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Barty View Post
    Got a call from special branch earlier today. They will send someone around to my house in Lamlukka sometime after Songkran. They said that they will want to interview my neighbours while they are there.
    Great. I went to the Special Branch in Bkk this week to ask about the submission of the documents. They said nobody had ever done it from Khon Kaen, so I am the "test case".
    They said not to submit the first documents to Special Branch but to someone at the Amphur!
    Might be an advantage [or not] regarding protocol, being a prototype of sorts.

    Almost make book on it that an overwhelming percentage of respective provinces have never had long-time Farang residents pursue this type of action.....so, probably not that unusual - even for Khon Kaen, which has a substantial Farang resident population.

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barty View Post

    When you take the documents to be translated at the Cheang Wattana Building A consular section make sure you show them how your name is spelt in Thai. It must match all of the other documents submitted. Also, make sure that all Thai documents use the same spelling and spacing for your name. This is important as the document will be rejected and will have to be corrected.

    This is where I am at know. I am waiting for the phone call to make the appointment to go to McDonalds.

    Feel free to ask any questions, I can't say I know everything about the process but happy to answer anything that I can.
    First of all, thanks for the very good explanation. I have finally decided I should apply for citizenship. I will definitely have 50 points by late October so I will delay applying until then. In the meantime, I will do the normal task of preparing all documentation. I thought all my Thai language documentation had the same Thai spelling, but there are slight differences between the work permit, marriage certificate, and charity receipt. Has anyone actually changed the Thai spelling with different agencies before? From looking online it seems possible, in theory at least, to change for the work permit. Has anyone done this with either work permit or marriage certificate?

    Also, any indication on how old the donation must be? I have a receipt from last year for a 6k donation, but if a problem with the name change I may just make another donation now with one or both of the other Thai spellings of my name now.

  20. #120
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    Mrs has known two over the years that did this. First one here over 30 years went through the whole process then they wanted 500k under the table to hand over his Thai passport, he refused. They came back a few months later and offered it to him for 700k. The other one was last year, been here years as well, had to go in twice for his language interview in front of about 30 people, passed but still waiting for his citizenship. I don't understand why people do it but good luck to you.

  21. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shy Guava View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ChalkyDee View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Shy Guava View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ChalkyDee View Post
    One problem I have at the moment is that the Special Branch officer(there's only 1 in my province) is reluctant to help me, saying the guy who did this before has moved on. He said he'd call me back but never has in over 2 months.
    Any advice as how to educate him? I thought of a good brand of whisky or reporting him to Bangkok. My wife, with her grengjainess just wants to wait.
    In my case, the colonel handling it had an NCO as an aide. He was the one who cut all the deals. I had to give him a second hand engine for his pickup and in return got the interview lined up with all the questions in advance (he wrote them for the chief) and assurances that a glowing report would be forwarded to Bangkok, which he did.
    Interesting. Was this in Bangkok? So I suppose it is normal. Actually, when speaking to SB in Bkk, they said that the process could be made more like 1 year instead of 3 and mentioned a 6 figure sum. She didn't say the exact amount though.
    No, it was in the province. There was about another 20K to move it further through Special Branch in Bangkok.
    With the present government all this has seemingly stopped!

  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thai3 View Post
    Mrs has known two over the years that did this. First one here over 30 years went through the whole process then they wanted 500k under the table to hand over his Thai passport, he refused. They came back a few months later and offered it to him for 700k. The other one was last year, been here years as well, had to go in twice for his language interview in front of about 30 people, passed but still waiting for his citizenship. I don't understand why people do it but good luck to you.
    Who wanted 500k?

    Once you have the citizenship, Thai ID card, getting the passport is 1000 baht.

    Equal rights is why people do it and to save visa hassles. It's not just Thailand, migrants do it all over the world.

  23. #123
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    Finally, I've got all the documents together and am going to submit them. Was given the runaround as I'm the first ever foreigner to do it from Khon Kaen. They basically are learning as I do it. One Indian tried t do it recently but ended up having to go through Bangkok. however, the rules have changed and I'll let you know how it goes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by toddaniels View Post
    Of course most of you who don't legally work here wouldn't qualify for thai citizenship just based on having a thai wife anyway.

    Plus you'd need to "muck around" with unbroken yearly extensions of stays based either on valid employment or on marriage to a thai national for the requisite years needed too.

    That pretty much rules out ANYONE on a year long multi-entry visa OR on a yearly extension of stay based on retirement.
    So if I can get the extensions to stay based on marriage, but don't work in Thailand, I can apply, right? I can meet all the financial requirements no problem. What is the minimum number of extensions I need to qualify?

    And if not.

    What is the minimum number of years I must work and pay tax in Thailand before I am able to apply? I heard it is 3, but I've can't see anything in this thread that specifies the minimum.

    Sorry to hijack the thread.

    Great info on the dual citizenship issue, my boy has both Thai and UK citizenship and I was under the impression when he reached 18 he would have to make a choice, good to know that its not necessary.

  25. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by toddaniels View Post
    Capt Nemo; you just won't give this a rest will you?
    Certainly not, why should anyone cave into to people making bold assertions again and again, and refusing to back it up with evidence?!?!?!

    Quote Originally Posted by toddaniels View Post
    First off, are you reading the rules as they're written in thai? I'm not talking about some b/s unauthorized engrish translation by "Somchai's law firm" written for foreigners.

    The rules in thai specifically state that when a thai national holding dual citizenship turns 18
    20?

    Quote Originally Posted by toddaniels View Post
    and IS ASKED they must pick one or the other.
    But I have yet to find a single verifiable case where anyone was ever asked.

    As far as naturalized thais. They do sign a paper stating IF ASKED they intend to give up their original citizenship, but no one is ever asked.
    That does not equate to actual real dual-nationality, does it? You can't wriggle off that legal hook.

    Quote Originally Posted by toddaniels View Post
    Post the exact sections of the rules in thai which support your argument and I might, as in just maybe, believe you. Note, DON'T post the entire novel of rules, I have that. Post just the sections which support your argument..
    I don't need to, I'm not making the claim that dual nationality exists - the onus is on the person making the fantastical assertion to back it up; not the other way round.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChalkyDee View Post
    Firstly, I am paying no lawyer.
    You're playing with words... I asked you what your source was, and you said (earlier in this thread):
    Quote Originally Posted by ChalkyDee View Post
    My lawyer is an American. He qualified as a lawyer in the US and also got a Thai law degree(yes all in the Thai language).
    The way you present him as "your lawyer" sounds like you are paying him.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChalkyDee View Post
    Thailand allows Dual Citizenship, so does the UK,
    In Thailand, to those up to a specified age (as stated by Patrick), yes. In the UK, no such age issue exists. Again, I think you're playing with words here, glossing over an important detail.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChalkyDee View Post
    there is absolutely no question about this.
    There absolutely is a question about this, and that's what I'm trying to get an unequivocal answer to. You may well be able to go through a process and get what looks like effective dual nationality, but in reality nobody has presented any evidence that dual nationality actually exists as an option for foreign(-born) immigrant adults as an unequivocal legal fact, but there is evidence that it does not.

    This is not a personalised thing, it's just about establishing the facts.

    (someone seems to have removed my previous response to this, which is bang out of order, this is a legitimate interrogation of a legal claim being made publically).
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1F2i0rYMj8

    we are all figments of our own imagination.

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