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Thai Visas and Visa Runs Tell us about your Thailand visa run experience, ask about doing a Thai Visa run here. Where is the best place to get a visa for Thailand? What paperwork did you need for a Thai Non Immigrant Visa? Where can you get Thai Multiple Entry Visas? Is a Retirement Visa that difficult to get? Want to take your Thai Girlfriend back to the UK or need a Thai Visa for yourself? Also for questions on visa entry requirements to other countries & overstay in Thailand.

Laos Visa run  Kuala Lumpur visa run  Penang visa run  Cambodia Visa run

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Old 27-12-2016, 06:03 PM   #51 (permalink)
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OK... cite your sources...
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Old 27-12-2016, 06:29 PM   #52 (permalink)
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I can see this:
Thai wife with Dual citizenship. Her status now in Thailand? - Thai visas, residency and work permits - Thailand Forum

Quote:
Chapter 2. Loss of Thai Nationality.
Section 13. A woman of Thai nationality who marries an alien and may acquire the nationality of her husband according to the nationality law of her husband, shall, if she desires to renounce Thai nationality, make a declaration of her intention before the competent official according to the form and in the manner prescribed in the Ministerial Regulations.
Section 14. A person of Thai nationality, who was born of an alien father and has acquired the nationality of his father according to the law on nationality of his father, or a person who acquires Thai nationality under Section 12 paragraph 2 is required, if he desires to retain his other nationality, to make a declaration of his intention to renounce his Thai nationality within one year after his attaining the age of twenty years, according to such form and in the manner as prescribed in the Ministerial Regulations.
If, after consideration of the said intention, the Minister is of opinion that there is reasonable ground to believe that such person may acquire the nationality of his father or a foreign nationality, he shall grant permission, except in cases where Thailand is being engaged in armed conflict, or is in state of war, he may order the dispensation of any renunciation of Thai nationality.
Section 15. Except in the case under Section 14, a person who has Thai nationality and other nationality, or who acquires Thai nationality by
naturalisation shall, if he desires to renounce Thai nationality, file an application with the competent official according to such form and in the manner prescribed in the Ministerial Regulations.
The granting or refusal of permission for renunciation of Thai nationality shall lie with the discretion of the Minister.
Section 16. With respect to an alien woman who acquires Thai nationality by marriage, her Thai nationality may be revoked if it appears that:
(1) The marriage was effected by concealment of facts or making any statement false in material particular;
(2) She commits any act prejudicial to the security, or conflicting with the interests of the State, or amounting to an insult to the nation;
(3) She commits any act contrary to public order or good morals.
Section 17. With respect to a person who has Thai nationality, by reason of his having been born within the Thai Kingdom of an alien father, his Thai nationality may be revoked if it appears that:
(1) He has resided in a foreign country, of which his father has or used to have nationality, for a consecutive period of more than five years as from the day of his becoming sui juris;
(2) There is evidence to show that he makes use of the nationality of his father or of a foreign nationality, or that he has an active interest in the nationality of his father or in a foreign nationality;
(3) He commits any act prejudicial to the security or conflicting with the interests of the State, or amounting to an insult to the nation;
(4) He commits any act contrary to public order or good morals.
The Minister in the event of (1) or (2), and the Court in the event of (3) or (4) and upon request of the public prosecutor, shall order the revocation of Thai nationality.
Section 18. When there exist circumstances suitable for maintaining the security or interests of the State, the Minister is empowered to revoke Thai nationality of the person who acquires Thai nationality under Section 7 Bis. paragraph two.
Section 19. The Minister is empowered to revoke Thai nationality of a person who acquires Thai nationality by naturalisation if it appears that:

(1) The naturalisation was effected by concealment of facts or making any statement false in material particular;
(2) There is evidence to show that he still makes use of his former nationality;
(3) He commits any act prejudicial to the security or conflicting the interests of the State, or amounting to an insult to the nation;

(4) He commits any act contrary to public order or good morals;
(5) He has resided abroad without having a domicile in Thailand for more than five years;
(6) He still retains the nationality of the country at war with Thailand.
The revocation of Thai nationality under this section may extend to children of a person whose Thai nationality is revoked in case such children are not sui juris and acquire Thai nationality under Section 12, paragraph two and the Minister shall, after the order for revocation of Thai nationality has been given, shall submit the matter to the King for information.
Section 20. A Committee shall be set up consisting of the Under Secretary of State for Interior as chairman, a representative of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, the Director-General of the Department of Administrative Affairs, the Director-General of the Police Department and the Director-General of the Public Prosecution Department as members, having the duty to consider the revocation of Thai nationality under Sections 16, 17(1) or 18, 19.
Where circumstances appear with respect to any person that his Thai nationality may be revoked, the competent official shall submit the latter for consideration of the Committee. After consideration, the Committee shall refer its opinion to the Minister for direction.
Section 21. A person of Thai nationality who was born of an alien father and may acquire the nationality of his father according to the law n nationality of his father shall lose Thai nationality if he obtains an lien identification card according to the law on registration of aliens.
Section 22. A person of Thai nationality who bas been naturalised as an alien, or who has renounced Thai nationality, or whose Thai nationality has been revoked, shall lose Thai nationality.
http://www.ibiblio.org/obl/docs3/THA...nality_Act.htm

Quote:
Section 9 The following contents shall be added thereto as (4) of Section 11 of Nationality Act, B.E. 2508:
"(4) Being the husband of the person whose nationality is Thai."
Phuket & Thailand Law Firm - International Law Office Phuket

Thailand Immigration Law Act

Making a statement of intent to renounce British citizenship sounds risky to me...
https://www.gov.uk/renounce-british-...ality/overview

https://www.gov.uk/renounce-british-...sh-nationality
Quote:
an official letter or statement from the country you’re currently a citizen or national of saying that if you hadn’t given up your British citizenship you’d have lost or failed to get your current citizenship or nationality

Quote:
Section 9. An alien woman who marries a person of Thai nationality shall, if she desires to acquire Thai nationality, file an application with the competent official according to the form and in the manner prescribed in the Ministerial Regulations.
The granting or refusal of permission for acquisition of Thai nationality shall lie with the discretion of the Minister.
Section 10. An alien who possesses the following qualifications may apply for naturalisation as a Thai:
(1) becoming sui juris in accordance with Thai law and the law under which he has nationality;
(2) having good behaviour;
(3) having regular occupation;
(4) having a domicile in the Thai Kingdom for a consecutive period of not less than five years till the day of filing the application for naturalisation;
(5) having knowledge of Thai language as prescribed in the Regulations.
Section 11. The provisions of Section 10 (4) and (5) shall apply if the applicant for naturalisation as a Thai;
(1) has rendered distinguished service to Thailand or has done acts to the benefit of official service, which is deemed suitable by the Minister;
(2) is a child or wife of a person who has been naturalised as a Thai or has recovered Thai nationality; or
(3) is one who used to have Thai Nationality.
Section 12. Any person being desirous of applying for naturalisation as a Thai, shall file an application with the competent official according to the form and in the manner prescribed in the Ministerial Regulations.

Should the applicant for naturalisation as a Thai, under paragraph one, have children who are not sui juris in accordance with Thai law, and who have a domicile in Thailand, he may concurrently apply for such naturalisation for his children. In this case, such children shall be exempt from possessing the qualifications under Section 10 (1), (3), (4) and (5).
The granting or refusal of permission for naturalisation as a Thai shall lie with the discretion of the Minister. In case the Minister deems appropriate to grant permission, he shall submit the matter to the King for Royal Sanction. After the Royal Sanction, the applicant shall make an affirmation of loyalty to Thailand.
A person who has been naturalised as a Thai is entitled to apply for a certificate of naturalisation as a Thai.
Where does it say you have to make a declaration renouncing your farang citizenship, anyway?
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Old 27-12-2016, 06:40 PM   #53 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChalkyDee
I assume getting citizenship in any country you emigrate to is beneficial.
No, I don't agree. As Nemo said, there is a pecking order of citizenships around the world. And I may risk my US citizenship although it appears it allows dual citizenship:
Quote:
A U.S. citizen may lose his or her dual citizenship by obtaining naturalization in a foreign state, by taking an oath or making an affirmation or other formal declaration of allegiance to a foreign state or political subdivision thereof, by serving in the armed forces of a foreign state, or by performing certain other acts, but only if the act was performed "voluntarily and with the intention to relinquish U.S. nationality".
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Old 27-12-2016, 06:43 PM   #54 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumbitch View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChalkyDee
I assume getting citizenship in any country you emigrate to is beneficial.
No, I don't agree. As Nemo said, there is a pecking order of citizenships around the world. And I may risk my US citizenship although it appears it allows dual citizenship:
Quote:
A U.S. citizen may lose his or her dual citizenship by obtaining naturalization in a foreign state, by taking an oath or making an affirmation or other formal declaration of allegiance to a foreign state or political subdivision thereof, by serving in the armed forces of a foreign state, or by performing certain other acts, but only if the act was performed "voluntarily and with the intention to relinquish U.S. nationality".
There is a practical thing... there are some jobs you couldn't get in your original country... I can think of jobs where I would require security clearance and checking where having any other nationality - even a top-notch Anglophone or NATO country one, could be a problem (maybe not so much for the ones where the Queen is head of state). Brits have more options than Yanks: https://www.gov.uk/types-of-british-...ritish-subject
Casual browsing raises other questions to do with tax: http://nomadcapitalist.com/2015/11/2...assport-value/
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Old 27-12-2016, 06:50 PM   #55 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainNemo
There is a practical thing... there are some jobs you couldn't get in your original country... I can think of jobs where I would require security clearance and checking where having any other nationality - even a top-notch Anglophone or NATO country one, could be a problem (maybe not so much for the ones where the Queen is head of state).
Casual browsing raises other questions to do with tax: http://nomadcapitalist.com/2015/11/2...assport-value/
And to get back to the OP, why would you risk your first world citizenship for one in a country under military rule and where a single gateway for all internet connections could soon be implemented? LOS is hardly the land of the free...

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/secu...eway-is-a-must
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Old 27-12-2016, 08:21 PM   #56 (permalink)
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It is deceptively tempting to want to smugly get round all the inconveniences of being a foreigner, but I don't think all the potential consequences and implications have been thought through.
I have occasionally thought about getting multiple nationalities, but really, the only ones I seriously considered were Canadian, Australian, New Zealand, and Irish (only because of a family link); and maybe a few little commonwealth island countries as well.
The reasons I looked at these were for more mainstream reasons - better quality of life, job opportunities, places where there were fewer linguistic and cultural obstacles to navigate (America fails on this one, because they can't speak English properly; and can't seem to process the notion of a public-funded welfare state, and they're fat ). Mind you, I am not near retirement age, so there a different considerations for the likes of me.
Never had to consider European countries, but all the best ones seem to be Scandinavia... I know a guy who gave up his Swiss citizenship because they wanted 25% tax off him, even though he lived and worked in the UK, and he says the place is pedants paradise. Mediterranean places are nice to visit, but don't appeal as anything other than a retirement place. All the caribbean tax havens are for the truly loaded... so then you're left with slightly dubious places in Latin America (safety, language and culture becomes an issue again), and the Shagpaddies of Asia which offer a bit more excitement than the remote tedium of Pacific islands? Yet we all know that the best of Asia is in the most authoritarian places, where Confucian mores seem to hold sway, and just as living and working in a place is very different from being on holiday there, adopting the nationality would also be a very different thing, which I'm not sure many people are really prepared for. I once met a dude who'd adopted Japanese citizenship... he seemed rather isolated to me... the novelty of quizzical looks at customs probably wear off fairly quickly and I imagine it becomes a chore having to keep saying "but I am Japanese", and pulling his eyelids sideways "look!".

I get the idea... it seems like becoming a Thai will simplify your life... but I thought that about getting a windows pc for the first time in the mid-90s... it just opened up a whole new world of hurt and constant learning curves... stick to what you know, or live the Chinese curse - to have an interesting life.

You haven't won me over... although I'll admit to being tempted, but no more than I would be by being tempted to become a barebacking porn star... the reality probably isn't quite as cool as it seems, and all the hazards start popping up around you making you feel less smug than you did that first time you bragged about it in a pub to backpackers.
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Old 28-12-2016, 09:24 AM   #57 (permalink)
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OK... cite your sources...
My lawyer.
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Old 28-12-2016, 09:26 AM   #58 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumbitch View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainNemo
There is a practical thing... there are some jobs you couldn't get in your original country... I can think of jobs where I would require security clearance and checking where having any other nationality - even a top-notch Anglophone or NATO country one, could be a problem (maybe not so much for the ones where the Queen is head of state).
Casual browsing raises other questions to do with tax: http://nomadcapitalist.com/2015/11/2...assport-value/
And to get back to the OP, why would you risk your first world citizenship for one in a country under military rule and where a single gateway for all internet connections could soon be implemented? LOS is hardly the land of the free...

Prawit: Single gateway is a must | Bangkok Post: news
I'm not going to argue about the benefits of dual citizenship.

I am not risking my UK citizenship in the slightest.
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Old 28-12-2016, 10:25 AM   #59 (permalink)
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Ok, so the taxexile has the ability to remove posts he doesn't like.
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Old 28-12-2016, 10:34 AM   #60 (permalink)
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^I'm going to go way out on a limb and guess a mod deleted it (both times). I'll also make a guess that if you repost it a 3rd time you'll end up in the clink.
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Old 28-12-2016, 11:08 AM   #61 (permalink)
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^I'm going to go way out on a limb and guess a mod deleted it (both times). I'll also make a guess that if you repost it a 3rd time you'll end up in the clink.
Thats's sad as I always liked this forum due to the lack of moderation, compared to others.
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Old 28-12-2016, 11:11 AM   #62 (permalink)
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^There still isn't much - although I do occasionally wonder at the posts they choose to delete.....
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Old 28-12-2016, 11:39 AM   #63 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Davis Knowlton
There still isn't much - although I do occasionally wonder at the posts they choose to delete
Maybe there is lesson here about the very few rights foreigners have in Thailand?
Under the former civil administrations we knew pretty much where we stood and rubbed along with it. Under a more authoritarian leadership, the status we once accepted, and our alien rights have been turned by authority into more of an appendage requiring a tourniquet. You don't fool anyone that you are trying to help, when a tourniquet is applied to the neck.
Not quite there yet but give it time.
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Old 28-12-2016, 06:24 PM   #64 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrB0b
Isn't the benefits outweighing the disadvantages a prime reason for doing anything?
No, I don't think that should be the prime reason for doing anything. And besides, there are many countries where the benefits of citizenship outweigh the disadvantages. So how does that rule help you decide?
Helping him decide is his decision to retire in Thailand.
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Old 28-12-2016, 07:36 PM   #65 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChalkyDee View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumbitch View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainNemo
There is a practical thing... there are some jobs you couldn't get in your original country... I can think of jobs where I would require security clearance and checking where having any other nationality - even a top-notch Anglophone or NATO country one, could be a problem (maybe not so much for the ones where the Queen is head of state).
Casual browsing raises other questions to do with tax: http://nomadcapitalist.com/2015/11/2...assport-value/
And to get back to the OP, why would you risk your first world citizenship for one in a country under military rule and where a single gateway for all internet connections could soon be implemented? LOS is hardly the land of the free...

Prawit: Single gateway is a must | Bangkok Post: news
I'm not going to argue about the benefits of dual citizenship.
You're beginning to sound like a Thai already.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChalkyDee View Post
I am not risking my UK citizenship in the slightest.
Says who? A Thai lawyer?! Where were they called to the bar? Pattaya?
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Old 28-12-2016, 07:37 PM   #66 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChalkyDee View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainNemo View Post
OK... cite your sources...
My lawyer.
Which firm?

Is your model a girlfriend as well?
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Old 28-12-2016, 07:43 PM   #67 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by CaptainNemo View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChalkyDee View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainNemo View Post
OK... cite your sources...
My lawyer.
Which firm?
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainNemo View Post
Where does it say you have to make a declaration renouncing your farang citizenship, anyway?
..and you still haven't answered the question... where in Thai law or British law does it say you have to make a statement of intent to renounce your British citizenship? I would expect a credible lawyer to be able to answer that question... what's his phone number?
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Old 29-12-2016, 06:39 AM   #68 (permalink)
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There are more than a few erroneous postings and information on this thread concerning IF a person can hold dual citizenship after becoming a naturalized thai or if a thai who gets citizenship to another country must renounce their thai citizenship.

No matter what you think you may have read or heard to the contrary the short answer is; NO

There is not a single law on the books which says a thai has to renounce their thai citizenship when getting citizenship to a different country. Neither is there a law on the books which states a foreigner who becomes a naturalized thai has to renounce their original citizenship.

Now do not confuse the law with what clueless mid-level gov't paper-pusher at passport control or the immigration office tries to tell you.

This thread has some good and very relevant posts in it, once you wade thru the b/s posts..
Is dual citizenship in Thailand allowed ?

FWIW: most of you people who are "retired" or married to thais, but not working here legally, at the required salary based on your nationality, who don't file thai income tax, etc., can't qualify for thai citizenship or permanent residence status anyway..
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Old 29-12-2016, 11:15 AM   #69 (permalink)
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I think I've read that Thai citizenship law is biased in favour of women... interesting for a country that generally puts women at a disadvantage.

I believe Thai law specifically states that Thai women who marry a foreigner and emigrate (and obtain a foreign nationality) are always able to return to Thailand and "regain" their citizenship, though as many will tell you, in practice, most Thai women maintain two passports, and the Thai authorities seem relaxed about this. I don't believe this option is available to Thai men, which may become an incentive for the relatively large ladyboy population - no idea?!

I'd say ChalkyDee should weigh up the advantages and disadvantages of a sex change operation, as well as applying for Thai citizenship - that way, he can maintain effective dual nationality.

In for a penny...
Dude, I think you need to find a hobby. Despite your attempts to use this thread for your own little crusade, although I'm not sure what that is, you are basically adding nothing constructive. Are you missing ajarn.com that much? Are you a newbie trying to increase your pot count to look smart?

I think I read...

I believe....

I asked for experience. If you have none and have no intention of getting Thai citizenship, go troll somewhere else.
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Old 29-12-2016, 11:17 AM   #70 (permalink)
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There are more than a few erroneous postings and information on this thread concerning IF a person can hold dual citizenship after becoming a naturalized thai or if a thai who gets citizenship to another country must renounce their thai citizenship.

No matter what you think you may have read or heard to the contrary the short answer is; NO

There is not a single law on the books which says a thai has to renounce their thai citizenship when getting citizenship to a different country. Neither is there a law on the books which states a foreigner who becomes a naturalized thai has to renounce their original citizenship.

Now do not confuse the law with what clueless mid-level gov't paper-pusher at passport control or the immigration office tries to tell you.

This thread has some good and very relevant posts in it, once you wade thru the b/s posts..
Is dual citizenship in Thailand allowed ?

FWIW: most of you people who are "retired" or married to thais, but not working here legally, at the required salary based on your nationality, who don't file thai income tax, etc., can't qualify for thai citizenship or permanent residence status anyway..
Good post with an excellent link - thanks. Too many people here offering barstool rumours and speculation.
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Old 29-12-2016, 12:29 PM   #71 (permalink)
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(America fails on this one, because they can't speak English properly; and can't seem to process the notion of a public-funded welfare state, and they're fat )
It's much worse than that.
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Old 11-01-2017, 01:27 AM   #72 (permalink)
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This is where I am at now. I am waiting for the phone call to make the appointment to go to McDonalds.
Got the call yesterday afternoon, need to front up to the McDonalds at the appointed time on this coming Thursday. Was told not to be late.
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Old 11-01-2017, 01:55 AM   #73 (permalink)
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Special branch told me it would only take about 3 years, under a year if paying a 6 figure sum.
It isn't complicated AFAIK. Certainly not extremely complicated compared to getting citizenship in other countries.

I was told less than a year and I have not been asked for anything.

I agree, it is not complicated if you are organised.
I have been thinking about this a bit, I am not sure the anyone from Special Branch can guarantee a schedule. The minister of the ministry of interior has to sign off the final documents granting citizenship. How can Special Branch have influence over the minister? Especially under the current anti-corruption government?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChalkyDee
My problem could be that the Special Branch in Khon Kaen has only one guy and he seems reluctant to get the process going as it, often not answering his phone or never in the office.
Most people that I have talk to regarding applying for citizenship have told me that Special Branch in Bangkok strongly suggest that you change your residence to a Bangkok address so that you will come under the Bangkok Special Branch as they have more experience dealing with the paper process than police in most other provinces. In my case I would have come under the Putumthani jurisdiction, but it was recommended that I change to a Bangkok address. Perhaps you should consider changing to a Bangkok address? A bit of a hassle with your job having to travel to Bangkok from time to time but might be worth it.
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Old 28-01-2017, 09:13 PM   #74 (permalink)
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There is a practical thing... there are some jobs you couldn't get in your original country... I can think of jobs where I would require security clearance and checking where having any other nationality - even a top-notch Anglophone or NATO country one, could be a problem (maybe not so much for the ones where the Queen is head of state).
Casual browsing raises other questions to do with tax: http://nomadcapitalist.com/2015/11/2...assport-value/
And to get back to the OP, why would you risk your first world citizenship for one in a country under military rule and where a single gateway for all internet connections could soon be implemented? LOS is hardly the land of the free...

Prawit: Single gateway is a must | Bangkok Post: news
I'm not going to argue about the benefits of dual citizenship.
You're beginning to sound like a Thai already.

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I am not risking my UK citizenship in the slightest.
Says who? A Thai lawyer?! Where were they called to the bar? Pattaya?
My lawyer is an American. He qualified as a lawyer in the US and also got a Thai law degree(yes all in the Thai language).
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Old 29-01-2017, 12:05 AM   #75 (permalink)
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I think I've read that Thai citizenship law is biased in favour of women... interesting for a country that generally puts women at a disadvantage.

I believe Thai law specifically states that Thai women who marry a foreigner and emigrate (and obtain a foreign nationality) are always able to return to Thailand and "regain" their citizenship, though as many will tell you, in practice, most Thai women maintain two passports, and the Thai authorities seem relaxed about this. I don't believe this option is available to Thai men, which may become an incentive for the relatively large ladyboy population - no idea?!

I'd say ChalkyDee should weigh up the advantages and disadvantages of a sex change operation, as well as applying for Thai citizenship - that way, he can maintain effective dual nationality.

In for a penny...
Dude, I think you need to find a hobby. Despite your attempts to use this thread for your own little crusade, although I'm not sure what that is, you are basically adding nothing constructive. Are you missing ajarn.com that much? Are you a newbie trying to increase your pot count to look smart?

I think I read...

I believe....

I asked for experience. If you have none and have no intention of getting Thai citizenship, go troll somewhere else.
No... stop trying to deflect the focus, I'm trying to establish the facts, because it's important for anyone, whether myself or not, to understand every detail of such a major decision. Please try and resist the urge to attack me personally (unless it's funny, or at least trying to be), because it is:
a. boring;
b. futile;
c. silly - I am far better at it than you; so let's get back to you not evading answering my very constructive question, please...

Sincerely, if it is a good idea to get dual nationality, then great for many of us; but if it isn't that should be exposed... the potential for benefits or problems is important - people come and read this stuff, and need to be disavowed of any delusions for their own good.

...you still have not answered the question, which for the third time is this:
where does it say (or who has told you) that you need to make a declaration of intent to give up your citizenship?

I've read official sources (which doesn't take long, even for a dyslexic), and from what I see, it seems pretty clear that there is no such requirement.
The British government may well be relaxed about dual nationality; but many countries aren't, and it is factual to say that the British government would only restore citizenship if you had correct documentation to prove that renouncing your citizenship was a requirement for obtaining a foreign nationality that required you to give up your citizenship - you can find that on the gov.uk site; and probably somewhere in legislation.gov.uk

Last edited by CaptainNemo : 29-01-2017 at 02:08 AM.
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