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  1. #1
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    Need Clarification Re O-a (retirement) Visa

    Hi.

    I am planning to apply for a Thailand retirement visa (Non-Immigrant, O-A) soon.

    The prohibition of employment "of any kind" on this visa is clear. Less clear is how the Thai Immigration Office would define "employment."

    I have very little banked cash. But I earn 80% of the required monthly income from permanent U.S. Social Security, and well over the remaining 20% monthly from an annual consulting contract with a Russian company based in St. Petersburg. This "work" is done strictly by email, Skype, phone and fax. None of the work involves, or will involve, any Thai company or interest, directly or indirectly. Moreover, the Russian firm does not business of any kind in Thailand or with any Thai interests. The contract has already run for two years, is currently valid through the end of 2015, and annual renewals are expected indefinitely. All of these details are specified in a letter signed by the company president, with official Russian certification stamp, and the president is happy to answer any and all questions about the contract.

    The question: is doing telephone consulting business for a Russian company with no connection to Thailand considered to be prohibited "employment" for purposes of obtaining the O-A visa?

    Logic would dictate that this is not "employment" under the visa rules, first, because the same logic would then forbid anybody on the O-A visa from writing a book or article and selling it anywhere in the world, taking a photo for the same purpose - etc. But more importantly, because such a restriction would also be illogical since it would actually be detrimental to Thailand.

    And yet, I am fully aware that "logic" is not always the operative word when it comes to decisions of this kind. The best answer to my question I've been able to get from the Royal Thai Consulate General in Los Angeles is (and I'm not making this up...) "It depends, but I don't know what it depends on."

    Does anybody have any actual experience in this regard? Thanks for your guidance.

  2. #2
    Thailand Expat misskit's Avatar
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    The Thai immigration officers in Chaing Mai recently stated people working over the Internet are not considered employed in Thailand and can do so on a Tourist Visa. (https://teakdoor.com/thailand-and-asi...o-working.html (Immigration Officers Raid Popular Co-working Space in Chiang Mai)) Didn't state O-A particularly, but wouldn't think it was different.

    From experience, I can tell you it is less trouble to get your O-A visa once you have arrived in Thailand than it is getting it in the States. They don't ask where your required money comes from, only proof you have it. You can get a notarized letter from the U.S. Consulate stating you have the required funds solely by an affirmation from yourself. No need to explain details of your finances.

  3. #3
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    Thank you very much for that info, Misskit. It's great news.

  4. #4
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    When the archaic and out dated labor laws were written here in the glorious "Land 'O Thaiz" there wasn't such an animal as a "digital nomad".

    If you're gonna apply for a Non-Immigrant Type-OA visa in the US, remember it's good for 2 years worth of stay here.. True you jump thru some hoops getting it; medical, police check and it carries a hefty price tag. Still it's as trouble free a visa as you'll ever get.

    You're comparing apples to oranges thinking a Non-OA garnered in your country isn't the same as a yearly extension of stay based on retirement garnered at your local Immigrations office inside thailand. They are not the same..

    My advice, if you can meet the qualifications to get the Non-OA visa before you show up here, do it!!

    As far as work, the less you 'telegraph' the fact that you're working as a 'digital nomad' sector the better you are protected here.

    All it takes is a cranky thai or foreigner to rat you out.

    Keep your head down, shut up about your "overseas job" and you'll be fine..
    Last edited by toddaniels; 07-10-2014 at 12:47 PM.
    "Whoever said `Money can`t buy you love or joy` obviously was not making enough money." <- quote by Gene $immon$ of the rock group KISS

  5. #5
    Thailand Expat misskit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toddaniels View Post
    You're comparing apples to oranges thinking a Non-OA garnered in your country is the same as a yearly extension of stay based on retirement garnered at your local Immigrations office inside thailand. They are not the same..
    Just curious. Why not the same? I had a Non-O for retirement from the Thai Consulate in Atlanta which I lost by making a dumbass mistake and going over the border without a re-entry permit. Immigration told me to do a border run and come back in with a tourist visa, which they then converted to a Non-O based on retirement. Looks like the same visa to me. Not had any problems. What's the difference?

  6. #6
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    "misskit" is more than a little mistaken (mostly just another terminology mix-up). You cannot get an OA visa inside the country, end of story..

    Unless I'm mistaken you couldn't have gotten a Non-Immigrant Type-OA visa in Atlanta either. It's not a "real thai embassy", just an Honorary Thai Consulate.

    I thought only LA and New York issued those OA's for people in the US.. On the Royal Thai Embassy website they call them "Non Immigrant Visa Longstay" although the class is stamped as an OA in your passport.

    What you most likely got was a year long multi-entry Non-O which you had to leave the country every 90 days to keep alive. Although, if I'm wrong and you did have a Non-OA, I'd sure like to be corrected...

    Here's the break down of how those two animals are different;
    The Non-OA is a visa you get (usually from your home country). It entails a medical certificate, police back ground check, proof of financials, and is issued as a multi-entry year long visa.

    Every time you exit, enter thailand you get stamped back in for a FULL calendar year. This means, IF you exit and re-enter just before that visa itself expires you'd get stamped back in for another full year (giving you two years in country on that one visa!).

    The caveat is; while the visa was issued as a multi-entry visa, the multi-entry part of it expires after the first year. That has nothing to do with your "permission to stay" stamp. IF you leave AFTER the visa itself expires (indicated on the visa as either a "must be used by" or "must enter thailand by" date), and you don't buy a re-entry permit before you leave thailand, you lose the balance of your permission to stay.

    Inside the country, yearly extensions of stay are for a year, period. Plus you'd need to buy a re-entry permit if you're gonna exit/return to thailand OR you lose your permission to stay. Also when you come back in, you don't get stamped in for another FULL year like you do with an OA. You only get what's left of the original years extension of stay.

    A single entry 90 day Non-0 visa inside the country costs 2000baht. A yearly extension of stay costs 1900baht. A year long Non-Immigrant Type-OA visa from the thai Embassy in the US costs I think over $200US, although I'm not sure..

    And that is the difference between a Non-Immigrant Type-OA and a Non-Immigrant Type-O plus a yearly extension of stay inside the country.

  7. #7
    Thailand Expat misskit's Avatar
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    This is what I received in Atlanta.



    Botched it up by going out without a re-entry permit in the second year.

    This is what immigration in Chiang Mai gave me after I went crying to them and followed their directions. So, yes, it is merely an "O".



    And is the visa I have been on since by going each year and giving the necessary documentaion.

    I always remember to get my re-entry permit now.

    Still don't think it is worthwhile to get the O-A in the States. Getting the documentation they want was very costly and time consuming. If I had to do it again, I would not have bothered.
    Last edited by misskit; 07-10-2014 at 03:00 PM.

  8. #8
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    Wow! "misskit" I stand humbly erected, err corrected. I didn't thing that Atlanta issued OA's..

    Yep, that throws a LOT of people off the rails with that visa.

    From looking at your picture you'd had to run to the border before Jan 23, 2009, you would got another year permission to stay, BUT exiting after that date without first buying a re-entry permit woulda killed the permission to stay deader than a door-nail..

    Also that's almost the exact same "Non-O" stamp they issue here in Bangkok;



    As far as that OA visa; if you're somewhere that can issue them, can amass the pile 'o paper they require AND you're savy enough to know to buy a re-entry permit for the second year it works out not all that bad price wise.

    I'm sending Atlanta an email now just to check to see if they still issue the OA as yours was issued a few years back..

    Thanx for proving me wrong, <- No really, I sincerely mean that! Thanx...

  9. #9
    Thailand Expat terry57's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by misskit View Post


    Still don't think it is worthwhile to get the O-A in the States. Getting the documentation they want was very costly and time consuming. If I had to do it again, I would not have bothered.


    I'm doing my O-A at this moment, I'm in Perth and when I have all the Documents ready will send them to the Embassy in Canberra.


    Costs have been,

    Police clearance = $ 60. Still waiting, been nearly two weeks already.

    Must show 800 K in my Perth Bank. = No problems there.

    Health Clearance from my Doctor = $ 80. Medicare rebate $ 37 . Cost = $ 43.

    Application fee for the O-A = $ 220.


    Total cost will be = $ 317.

    Dam great value I'd say considering That includes a Multi Entry permit and will give me in reality two years without needing to piss around getting Visa's.

    So what's the break down of getting the O-A in Seppo Land ?

    Be very similar would it not. ?

    Regards being time consuming goes. Its all been extremely efficient and easy except for gaining the Police Clearance .

    In Perth the Application sits at the bottom of the list until the few staff work through that list.

    I have plenty of time though so no problems with that. Once I have that clearance the Embassy take 3 working days to process the Visa Application so with mail time I expect to have the Passport back a week after I send it off.

    When it comes back with the O-A it will be well worth the wait.

  10. #10
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    All in all I think you did the right thing terry..

    If you break the cost down after comin' into the country on a single entry Non-O visa, then applying for a yearly extension of stay and finally a multiple re-entry permit. Then just applying for the yearly extension the following year to match exactly the ability to enter and exit the country a Non-OA gives it'd be like this
    • 600baht - stat dec from Oz embassy
    • 1900baht - yearly extension of stay
    • 3800baht - multiple re-entry permit
    • following year
    • 600baht - stat dec from Oz embassy
    • 1900baht - yearly extension of stay
    That's a total of 8800baht which is 306 AUS.
    That's also factoring in you already entered thailand on a single entry Non-O, but if you had to apply for it here in thailand that'd be another 2000baht as well!

    The way you're going about it now; you won't have to do anything but 90 day reporting once you enter the country (except by a re-entry permit for the second year).

    Once you get that Police clearance you'll be in tall cotton, good luck..

  11. #11
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    An important distinction between LA's Consulate and the D.C. Embassy is that LA wanted supporting documents notarised which is a costly pain. DC took the original documents as is. Confirm through their respective website's requirements.

    Steve

  12. #12
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    That Royal Thai Consulate General in Los Angeles has been known for being quite persnickety for a good while now, even with mundane b/s things the other Honorary Consulates do without question.

    As was proven by "misskit", you can get a year long, multi-entry, Non-Immigrant Type-OA from The Honorary Thai Consulate in Atlanta.

    Technically, there is no restriction on where you apply in the US (though I seem to remember last year Denver started only handing out thai visas to Colorado'ans, Colorado'esians, err people from Colorado). That was the only one I think which restricts who can apply..

    If I was looking for anything more than a tourist visa, I'd send emails to a few of them and check what they do.

  13. #13
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    Terry and Misskit - where did you guys get your Leprosy and Elephantiasis tests for the medical cert? I'm 8/10ths of the way through this danged process, and every medical authority in Seattle tells me there are no such tests in the U.S. I can't believe that...but that's what I'm getting from the King County Health Department - one of the best in the country. Can you recall any lab names? Did you even GET labs, or did you just find a doctor to sign the thing based on your nose not falling off in the exam room? BTW - I've tried 6, 8 times to ask the question of the Thai Embassy in L.A. HAAA! Like waiting for Godot. No - like waiting for Guffman. (movie lover's crack)

  14. #14
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    Honorary consulate in Portland (closer to my home) told me they don't do O-As. And - disturbingly - the voice that answers the machine, a woman, gives her contact information, which turns out to be Siam-Legal. I don't know much about those folks, but based on what I consider to be their deceptive web address (not to mention their $800 fee), I wouldn't do business with them.

  15. #15
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    Kind of replying to myself (above)...just got off the phone with one of the folks at the D.C. Embassy. HE told me no blood test is actually needed. "Just go to doctor. He look. You are healthy. Sign paper. Only for visa." MY doc won't do it...have to start looking. :-p
    Last edited by reispr01; 09-10-2014 at 09:56 PM.

  16. #16
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    Todd - D.C. Embassy just told me they will not accept my application. It MUST go to L.A. (based on my home address).

  17. #17
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    AFAIK; the only Royal Thai Honorary Consulate that issues Non-Immigrant Type-OA's is the one in Atlanta Georgia.. <- That is just based only on the information provided by "misskit" and what I know about dealing with the consulates in houston, coral gables & denver, who can't do Non-Imm-OA's

    Normally to get an OA, you have to use a "real Royal Thai Consulate" (of which there are three) not just an honorary one;
    Here's the link Royal Thai Consulates US;

    Here the link to the Royal Thai Honorary Consulates US;

    I still can't figure out how Atlanta can do it being an honorary consulate. Then again I stopped looking too hard for logic where thaiz are concerned a LONG time ago..

    "reispr01" I'd send Atlanta an email see what they tell you. I mean the worst they can say is they can't do it for you.

    Good Luck

  18. #18
    Thailand Expat misskit's Avatar
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    I had to go to Atlanta to submit my paperwork in person at the consulate. Added to the costs of my fees to get the O-A visa as well as the added stress of driving to downtown Atlanta.

    The doctor in the local health department did all my health testing and he did test for everything including drugs. Said he was signing nothing he could not confirm. Don't remember the names of the tests but it ended up costing me several hundred dollars even at a government clinic.

    Seems the police clearance was only about $25 at the sheriff department in my hometown.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by misskit View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by toddaniels View Post
    You're comparing apples to oranges thinking a Non-OA garnered in your country is the same as a yearly extension of stay based on retirement garnered at your local Immigrations office inside thailand. They are not the same..
    Just curious. Why not the same? I had a Non-O for retirement from the Thai Consulate in Atlanta which I lost by making a dumbass mistake and going over the border without a re-entry permit. Immigration told me to do a border run and come back in with a tourist visa, which they then converted to a Non-O based on retirement. Looks like the same visa to me. Not had any problems. What's the difference?
    UPDATE: I have received my Non-O-A, but it looks far different than what Misskit posted below - probably just the newer version with more anti-counterfeiting gizmos. But Misskit, could you please clarify- I have the "multi" designation. I still need to get a re-entry permit prior to every exit? Where does one acquire these? (When I lived/worked in Thailand previously, my employer did everything, and I never learned the details).

    Thanks

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by reispr01 View Post
    Terry and Misskit - where did you guys get your Leprosy and Elephantiasis tests for the medical cert? I'm 8/10ths of the way through this danged process, and every medical authority in Seattle tells me there are no such tests in the U.S. I can't believe that...but that's what I'm getting from the King County Health Department - one of the best in the country. Can you recall any lab names? Did you even GET labs, or did you just find a doctor to sign the thing based on your nose not falling off in the exam room? BTW - I've tried 6, 8 times to ask the question of the Thai Embassy in L.A. HAAA! Like waiting for Godot. No - like waiting for Guffman. (movie lover's crack)
    Follow up to my own post for anybody who may be seeking the Non-O-A visa...eventually convinced a doctor to sign the exotic diseases certification with the sentence "upon physical examination." No expensive labs (which were not available in the U.S. Anyway except by the CDC in Atlanta. Faced no problems with the reportedly strict Los Angeles Consulate.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by reispr01 View Post
    SNIPPED! I have the "multi" designation. I still need to get a re-entry permit prior to every exit?
    "reispr01"- NO, you do NOT need to purchase a re-entry permit during the validity of the visa itself. (That's the date where it says, "This visa must be utilized before").

    Every time you re-enter the country during that time, you'll get stamped in for a complete calendar year.

    IF you exit and re-enter just before the visa itself expires you'll get stamped in for another calendar year BUT. . .

    The "multi-re-entry permit" part of that visa will expire on the "must be utilized before date". To keep that second year's permission to stay stamp "alive" you'll need to buy a re-entry permit at that time..

    Different Thai consulates/embassies have different looking stamps, stickerz etc. Don't sweat the small stuff or look for logic concerning the thaiz where there is none, you'll drive yourself crazy.

    So to summarize; you don't need to do anything for the next year, but come and go as you please, AND to make sure you check the date they stamp into your passport when you enter the country to make sure they give you a full year!

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by misskit
    I had to go to Atlanta to submit my paperwork in person at the consulate. Added to the costs of my fees to get the O-A visa as well as the added stress of driving to downtown Atlanta.
    Don't they have that little office in Dunwoody anymore?

  23. #23
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    Does the US have different rules for the medical certs? When I got my initial retirement Non O/A, multi entry, there were 2 things I had to do on arrival in LOS. One was to open a Thai bank account and the other was the medical certificate.

    In my case the med cert was issued by a local private hospital for about 150bt. Others have told me since, any hospital, or Thai doctor can do it, even a duff one with a KSR chit. Thai immigration aren't smart enough to tell the difference, or they can't make money on it so they don't care.
    Heart of Gold and a Knob of butter.

  24. #24
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    AFAIK; you meet the criteria for a Non-Immigrant Type OA visa in your country BEFORE you wing your way here. . .

    "chassamui" When and where did you pull that multi-entry Non-OA? Also who did you send the proof to that you both opened a thai bank account and got a health certificate?

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    I got my visa at Hull UK in 2009. I presented the med cert and bank details as part of my first 90 day report after that.
    It is my understanding that the UK consulate don't do the retirement visas anymore, and you have to go to The Thai Embassy in London and que up like everyone else.
    This info is anecdotal by the way so happy to be corrected if anyone knows different.

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