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  1. #101
    Thailand Expat Pragmatic's Avatar
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    I've just read 3 pages of this Proof Of Income - Thai visas, residency and work permits - Thailand Forum and I'm still non the wiser. On the day Terry it will be down to the toss of a coin. Good luck.

  2. #102
    Thailand Expat OhOh's Avatar
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    Thanks, Terry and Todd for their getting to the root of this topic. Thanks everybody else for their "knowledge" and personal experience.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamescollister
    but if you don't, it could come back to bite you.
    Regarding marriage/retirement extensions, I've been doing them for over 12 years.

    It's pretty much straightforeward ...

    As Mr Collister has already said, be very careful what you declare. I know an American who can't meet the requiremnts, he used to go down the 'stat dec' road, that was until he found out that the immigration had 'cottoned on' to this LOOPHOLE!

    It's that old chestnut again...It is dependant upon the issuing officer you happen to get.

    Terry will be OK, he has the funds.

    BTW. The Bisto Boy wouldn't have needed this much info, I'm sure!

  4. #104
    Thailand Expat terry57's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by charleyboy View Post

    Terry will be OK, he has the funds.

    I do indeed have the funds,

    The issue for me is the Interest I am making on having my 800 K back in Australia making a nice wedge in Interest.

    I have 400 K banging around in my Two Thai bank accounts, this is my play money and pays my rent, no need to bring more money in making nothing in my Thai bank.

    When you look at the exception to the rule where AUD and US citizens can produce a Stat Dec without actually showing the funds available its quite silly.

    I could have fok all, yet I front up to the Australian Embassy, declare I'm flush with cash and walk out with a Stat Dec Ready to show Chaeng Wattana.

    According to Toddaniels who works in the game Thai Immigration will accept it no questions asked.

    This is exactly why I will Employ Toddaniels to gain my Retirement extension.

    He speaks Thai, he writes Thai and he does this for a Business. I will say nothing at Chaeng Wattana, he will deal with it and I will pay him.

    I'll back this guy to know his game, his posts on all Retirement Visa issues have been Straight forward, clear, precise and not once has he altered his story.

    He also makes it perfectly clear that what he tells us is applicable to Chaeng Wattana in Bangkok only.

    The rules will differ at other Immigration Centers through out the country.

    I will apply for the Retirement Extension at Chaeng Wattana early January under the above criteria.

    Unless things change between now and January 2015 I expect to walk out of Chang Wattana with the Retirement extension whilst my money remains firmly in Perth making me some very nice interest.

    Worst case scenario is that they do not accept the letter from the Embassy and I'm sent packing.

    This is no problem at all simply because I will contact my bank and get the money sent over.

    I'll then jump a plane and go for a nice little holiday outside Thailand.

    Its all good whatever EH.

  5. #105
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    Terry, you are missing something here, you don't need the money sent over to Thailand, just proof of income in OZ.
    If you have 400,000 B in Thailand, then all you need is proof of 30,000 B odd income in OZ, end of story.
    No need to do anything else and no seeding period, no big deal, 1,000s of ex what evers do it that way. Jim

  6. #106
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    I don't think it's immigration law when consulates provide evidence of income.

    This was simply a practice direction from immigration which stated that any evidence of funds constituting income had to be notarised by the applicant's respective consulate. In most instances, consulates would do so but only when the applicant produced evidence from his income provider viz. pension etc. However, the septics do not require this of their nationals who simply poodle along to their consulate and affirm a self declaration notarised by the consulTe officer. This used to annoy me intensely but there it is. Australians appear to have the same leeway.

  7. #107
    Thailand Expat terry57's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamescollister View Post


    Terry, you are missing something here, you don't need the money sent over to Thailand, just proof of income in OZ.

    Jim,

    I like you simply because you come across as a stand up guy and an honest punter.

    But Jim, you are not dialed into what we are discussing here. You are one step behind in the game, sorry mate but try and keep up.

    Could be your bad Internet connection Maybe.

    But just to clarify your post.

    When I front up to the Thai Embassy in Perth I will apply for a single entry Non " O " type 90 day visa based on Retirement.

    If they want to see that I actually have the 800 K available it will not be a problem.

    The discussion at hand is obtaining the Retirement extension in Bangkok without needing to show the money in the bank.

    Once I have the Non O in my passport gained in Perth its a motsa.

    A walk up start in other words.

  8. #108
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    I don't believe Jim considers himself as a punter.
    As many don't.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by terry57 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jamescollister View Post


    Terry, you are missing something here, you don't need the money sent over to Thailand, just proof of income in OZ.

    Jim,

    I like you simply because you come across as a stand up guy and an honest punter.

    But Jim, you are not dialed into what we are discussing here. You are one step behind in the game, sorry mate but try and keep up.

    Could be your bad Internet connection Maybe.

    But just to clarify your post.

    When I front up to the Thai Embassy in Perth I will apply for a single entry Non " O " type 90 day visa based on Retirement.

    If they want to see that I actually have the 800 K available it will not be a problem.

    The discussion at hand is obtaining the Retirement extension in Bangkok without needing to show the money in the bank.

    Once I have the Non O in my passport gained in Perth its a motsa.

    A walk up start in other words.
    Terry, you don't need to show money in a Thai bank at all, just that you have an income to support yourself here.
    No big deal, few bits of paper from OZ, done and dusted. Jim

  10. #110
    Thailand Expat terry57's Avatar
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    ^

    Thanks Jim, Cheers.

  11. #111
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    Phuketrichard again hits it outta the park with his 100% correct response!
    terry will not walk outta Chaengwattana with a retirement visa, but with a yearly extension of stay based on "retirement".

    Aww, come on, no photos? sheesh what's the world comin' to?

    I will say, "terry57" is getting pretty darned dialed in to the process, even if he's a little lacking in correct terminology.

    Still seeing as almost everyone who posts about this topic on any forum calls it a year's "retirement visa" I think we can't fault him too much for his use of terms.
    "Whoever said `Money can`t buy you love or joy` obviously was not making enough money." <- quote by Gene $immon$ of the rock group KISS

  12. #112
    Thailand Expat Pragmatic's Avatar
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    Any entry in a passport is classed as a 'visa'. Therefore an 'extention' is legally a visa. On entry as a tourist you get a 30 days visa free visit. But to get that you need a stamp in ones passport. That is a visa.
    Last edited by Pragmatic; 31-08-2014 at 09:23 AM.

  13. #113
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    On entry as a tourist you get a 30 days visa free visit. But to get that you need a stamp in ones passport. That is a visa.
    Nope u get a visa EXEMPT stamp

    Look i know its only words and i am not trying to be an asshole or start fights but it does make a difference as there are some countries that can get a visa on arrival an are not allowed a visa exempt stamp.

    Stamps are entry/departure they are not visas.
    "I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol or insanity, but they've always worked for me" HST

    View my pics

  14. #114
    Thailand Expat Pragmatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phuketrichard
    Nope u get a visa EXEMPT stamp
    A 'visa EXEMPT stamp' in your passport is a visa. If you didn't have it then you'd not be allowed in the country.

    vi·sa
    ˈvēzə/
    noun
    noun: visa; plural noun: visas
    1. an endorsement on a passport indicating that the holder is allowed to enter, leave, or stay for a specified period of time in a country.
    A 'Retirement Extension' is therefore a 'Retirement Extention Visa' being as it's an appendage to your passport.
    An official authorization appended to a passport, permitting entry into and travel within a particular country or region
    I know it's only words.

  15. #115
    Thailand Expat Pragmatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phuketrichard
    Stamps are entry/departure they are not visas.
    A 'departure stamp' is still a visa but one that doesn't give permission to stay after the date on it.

  16. #116
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    I agree with Phuketrichard.
    The proof of income is now being asked for by some (soon all?) Thai Immi offices plus evidence of the regular transfer of those amounts to your Thai bank account.

    This is no doubt because of fraudulent income statements made to the Consulate/Embassy by others in the past and advertised on forums like this.

    If you get away without proof of income this time don't bank on it happening next year.
    The one constant with Thai Immi is that its "rules" are always changing.

  17. #117
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    SORRY THIS IS LONG; stick with it if you can...
    Pragmatic you can call them anything you want to in engrish and show the definition of the word too if it makes you feel better

    This being thailand how about we go by how things are viewed in the eyes of the thaiz? Sound fair to you?

    A visa exempt stamp is NOT a visa, hence the catchy name "visa exempt stamp". It is permission to enter the country without having gotten a real visa from a thai embassy BEFORE you washed up here. Certain countries get different permissions to stay under the visa exempt program. G7 countries get 30 days on both land and air entries. Other countries get 15 by land but 30 entering by air. Korea for example get a 90 day visa exempt stamp.

    Some countries citizens can get a "visa on arrival" when entering thailand. That's where they buy a visa at the airport when they come into the country and said visa is stamped into their passport. Sorta like most people do entering Cambodia and Lao.

    FWIW: there is NO such animal as a "retirement visa or a retirement extension" no matter what engrish word they stamp into your passport when you receive the extension of stay. The visa is a Non-Immigrant Type-O <- O means OTHER. What we call a "retirement extension" in thai is really an extension of stay for the purpose of living out the end of your life; ใช้ชีวิตบั้นปลาย or what the thaiz jokingly call the "old people extension".

    Also getting an extension of stay doesn't mean the original visa didn't expire. Christ my Non-O visa expired back in 2009, but I've had yearly extensions of stay from it based on being over 50 since then. Those extensions of stay are thai'd, err tied to the original visa, BUT what they didn't do was make the visa valid past it's enter before date. The visa expires when the visa expires.. It's the permission to stay stamps which are renewed, and they are NOT visas!

    Pragmatic you appear more than slightly confused about what an entry/exit stamp is, what a visa is and what an extension of stay is. Still at the end of the day, as long as you imagine you understand what's what, you can argue until the cowz come home that it ain't so..

    Evilbaz, how can you be so pretentious to say "The proof of income is now being asked for by some (soon all?) Thai Immi offices plus evidence of the regular transfer of those amounts to your Thai bank account." How would you even begin to know that "soon all" places will do this?

    There is NO evidence that things are gonna change, in fact the brand spanking new Thai Police Order 327/2557 which came into effect last Friday didn't change the official criteria for extensions of stay based on marriage, being over 50 or having a thai child.

    There is also NO requirement that you show you transfer ANY money into your thai bank account if you use the embassy letter for verification of funds from abroad. In fact you don't even NEED to have a thai bank account! Nor do they ask for ATM withdrawal slips or anything of the sort.

    This rumor mongering is the exact reason there is so much misinformation out there about this stuff. People say it's like this or like that yet have no proof to back it up.

    Now I'm not saying that some places don't ask for this, but believe me here in Bangkok they don't do it AT ALL!

    I was out there last week shepherding a person thru the yearly extension of stay process based on being over 50 and he used nothing but the embassy letter. Once our queue number was called we weren't in front of the officer for even 5 minutes and he had another yearly extension of stay stamped into his passport! <-which BTW Pragmatic, was NOT a visa!

  18. #118
    Thailand Expat terry57's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evilbaz View Post

    This is no doubt because of fraudulent income statements made to the Consulate/Embassy by others in the past and advertised on forums like this.

    If you get away without proof of income this time don't bank on it happening next year.
    Firstly,

    Regards fraudulent income statements.

    Please explain how you have come to this conclusion and how it affects Thai Immigration or anyone else in fact. ?

    Just facts please, no maybe this or that.

    Seems to be you're not talking facts here but merely surmising.

    Secondly, regards the rules changing next year, maybe they will or maybe they won't.

    We are talking about what the regulations are at this very moment. At the very moment A Stat Dec will do it for me.

    The point of the thread at this point is to cover the existing rules and regulations as they stand at Chaengwattana in Bangkok only.

    Its not about speculation, innuendo or what might happen next year.

    Just dealing with facts at this very moment.

  19. #119
    Thailand Expat terry57's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toddaniels View Post


    This rumor mongering is the exact reason there is so much misinformation out there about this stuff.

    People say it's like this or like that yet have no proof to back it up.

    Just to outline my take on this issue and add to what toddaniels has said.

    I have never needed to gain a Retirement extension before so I had simply never spent much time looking at the regulations.

    I did know that one had to have 800 K in the bank or have 65 K pension or 400 K cash in the bank and a pension to top it up.

    Everyone knows this info, its written everywhere on every Web sight.

    I had no idea that the Stat Dec route was available for an Australian or US citizen as long as The Non O was obtained outside the country.

    Simply never read that information before or been told about it. Its not commonly written on most web sights.

    On another thread on TD Toddainels raised the Stat Dec issue, when I read it I thought he had made a typo but continued following the thread and his posts.

    Other posters continued to query his post which made it more confusing.

    Once he actually posted up the official regulation the penny dropped that it was indeed another way of obtaining the Retirement extension.

    No question about it once he posted up the regulation.

    Many people are unaware that this is indeed a legitimate way of gaining the Retirement extension.

    Further more,

    phuketrichard has had a crack at me insinuating I'm a fool for wasting my money employing toddaniels to assist me in obtaining the Retirement extension.

    Actually, toddaniels had offered to do it for free just to show the dis believers that it can be done this way.

    Not my go, I pay people for their work so he will get his wedge, have not even discussed with him what his fee is.

    Point being, when I walk out of chaengwattana with my Retirement Extension and my 800 K is still at home making me good interest his fee whatever it is will be worth every Baht.

    If I was going down the banked money route I'd do the Retirement extension myself, doing it with the Stat Dec hiring a fixer is the way to go.

    Stress free experience is my aim.

    In other words, Immigration will communicate with my fixer and not myself.

    I'll just sign papers and pay money. All good that.

  20. #120
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    Terry;
    u still dont get it
    we all know it can be done, ( at least those of us that are Americans or from Australia) I NEVER said it couldn't and as i live in phuket was giving what is required here for the extenision

    BTW this is wrong;
    or 400 K cash in the bank and a pension to top it up.
    There is no min amount u need in the bank if doing the combo method

    I have had year extensions for marriage, working, having a kid and retirement, for over 20 years now.

    I know the rules and keep informed on changes

    OK great ui cant handle doing things on your own or you cant be bothered, Fine
    BUT it is not difficult for anyone wishing to do it on their on.

    OK; i have had enough of this,
    terry best of luck

  21. #121
    Thailand Expat OhOh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toddaniels
    Once our queue number was called we weren't in front of the officer for even 5 minutes and he had another yearly extension of stay stamped into his passport!
    Can you reveal his nationality or if his first name was "Terry"?

  22. #122
    Thailand Expat terry57's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phuketrichard View Post

    OK; i have had enough of this,
    terry best of luck

    Thank god for that, we will leave it up the Expert who does it for a living EH.

    That will be Toddaniels by the way.

  23. #123
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    Actually I don't do "this" for a living by any stretch of the term. Christ I don't do anything here for a living. I review thai language schools for free, I write about my trials and tribulations learning thai for free, I volunteer as a translator for free. Last time I checked, free was free.

    I started doin' this almost 6 years ago as a "hobby". I wanted to see if I could get the stuff immigrations required, collated, with the correct copies, signatures and what not. I knew there was a way to present this stuff to the thaiz so that it flies thru. I found out that other immigration districts use different criteria, so I started dealing just with Bangkok.

    I will state now and for the record I am NOT a visa agent and I am most definitely not a fixer! If I meet with someone and they can't check all the boxes required to secure an extension of stay within the rules as they're written, we're done. I won't even waste the time goin' out to Chaengwattana with them.

    I take that back, I have done it a couple times when foreigners persuaded me that their thai g/f, wife or some bar stool expert said it could be done. I knew before goin' out there it wouldn't fly and told them as much. When they were subsequently denied an extension of stay they blamed it on me! I even had an immigrations officer ask me "Mister Tod why did you bring this guy here with the documents not correct?", because she'd never seen me do it before.

    I am just a person who can make the process as painless as dealing with thai bureaucracy ever is, period. That's why I call what I do "shepherding". Of the hundreds of times I've been out to Immigrations here, most foreigners there are like lost sheep milling around. They don't know the rules, don't have the copies, don't have the correct form, pictures, documentation, and sometimes don't even know what to call what they're tryin' to do, so they can get a queue number and start the process.

    Also, not one time have I ever stated I advocate anyone put a number for income on the embassy letter which they can't back up with documentation (should it be requested). ANY immigrations officer can ask for proof. All I have ever said is for yearly extensions of stay in Bangkok they don't ask!

    I did say on another post that IF you're tryin' to get that first 90 day Non-O visa in country at Bangkok Immigrations and are using an embassy letter, you MUST show proof to back it up. That proof can be bank statements showing monthly deposits in your bank account in your country, the year end form most pensions and social security sends showing the monthly amount. It can even be rental income, they don't care. They just want the number on the embassy form to match the copies you show them and to meet the financial requirements for what you're tryin' to do.

    I am not pretending to be the go-to-guy for visas.. I'm just tryin' to make the system work as it was designed to work based on rules the thaiz wrote themselves.

  24. #124
    Thailand Expat terry57's Avatar
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    ^

    Thanks for clearing up exactly what your roll is concerning obtaining Visa's.

    It's safe to say you know much more on this subject than any other poster on this forum.

    I'll be contacting you early January.

    Cheers.

  25. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by terry57
    Thanks for clearing up exactly what your roll is concerning obtaining Visa's.
    It was only for you, Terry!

    Every coont else 'got it' months back.

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