Thread: Multiple Non immigrant type 'o'( requirements)

Yes I agree. We all seem to think about the now, more than the future when it comes to obtaining visas. A bit of Thai mentality since I should at least have a plan for when I am physically unable to file for and maintain a long term visa. Hopefully, that day never comes and I just pop my clogs while in the middle of some great sex.

As for building in Thailand, my recommendation is to build somewhere you like rather than building somewhere that is not your choice. If you think you will enjoy where your wife's land is and can stay active, then go for it. Otherwise, rent a place for at least one year where you think you can be happy and repeat the process until you find the magic location. Take your time.

We will be looking at a house built for an uncle by a local builder when we visit. If we like it we will use him to build almost as soon as we move peranently. If I don't like the look of his work , we will definitely rent until I find a suitable builder but it is getting increasingly less likely that I will buy a property ready built in Thailand. The prices are much too high and that is why the property market has stagnated. Everybody in Thailand is looking for a mug !

Originally Posted by rickschoppers

Yes I agree. We all seem to think about the now, more than the future when it comes to obtaining visas. A bit of Thai mentality since I should at least have a plan for when I am physically unable to file for and maintain a long term visa. Hopefully, that day never comes and I just pop my clogs while in the middle of some great sex.

As for building in Thailand, my recommendation is to build somewhere you like rather than building somewhere that is not your choice. If you think you will enjoy where your wife's land is and can stay active, then go for it. Otherwise, rent a place for at least one year where you think you can be happy and repeat the process until you find the magic location. Take your time.

Absolutely... I've spent ages collecting stuff on my CV, but really, half the point is to sort out a stable latter half of life somewhere warm and laidback.
I'm trying to work out a sensible visa and career change strategy to make that happen, rather than just rock up and fuck up.

Originally Posted by Digby Fantona

Yes, it is more likely that my visa runs, if any are to be done, will be at Nong Khai. It does seem to be more convenient to be able to report online though. I am in good health now but this could change and what is simple, even enjoyable, now may prove to be difficult if my health fails.

I like Nong Khai a lot. Property prices are silly there now and much cheaper to build a new one on land already owned. Nice fish and chips in Mai's Bar next to the City Hotel.

Don't confuse a "border-bounce" where you exit thailand, stamp in&out of another country and stamp back into thailand <- done to activate another entry on a multi-entry visa with 90 day reporting <-(which BTW since Dec 17th can no longer be done online)

Rick holds a year-long, multi-entry Non-Immigrant Type O <-other visa based on marriage to a thai. That visa is good for a year from the date it's issued, it allows unlimited entries/exits to thailand with each entry getting a 90 day admitted until stamp.

On that visa you can't stay in-country longer than 90 days so you NEVER do a 90 day report. When his admitted until stamp is winding down he border-bounces to get another 90 day stamp. If he plays the dates right and does one last border bounce before the visa itself expires he can pull almost 15 months in country out of that visa.

Rick you are confusing the financial requirements you met at the thai consulate in the US when applying for that year-long, multi-entry non-o visa with the requirements needed INSIDE the country when applying for a yearly extension of stay.

Every thai consulate in the world is run under the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, they set the policies. Every border crossing and immigration office inside the country is run under the Immigration Division of the Royal Thai Police, they set the policies inside the country concerning visas and extensions..

IF you were to apply for a yearly extension of stay at your immigration office you'd either
bank 400K baht in a thai bank account in your name only for 2 months prior to your application
OR
you'd go to your consulate and fill out the verification of funds from abroad letter stating you get a minimum of 40K baht per month income.
Those are the only two ways to meet the financial requirements for a yearly extension of stay based on marriage.

Originally Posted by toddaniels

Rick holds a year-long, multi-entry Non-Immigrant Type O <-other visa based on marriage to a thai. That visa is good for a year from the date it's issued, it allows unlimited entries/exits to thailand with each entry getting a 90 day admitted until stamp.

These are no longer available at Consulates in the UK.

You have to send off to London now and takes upto two weeks.

Originally Posted by Digby Fantona

Originally Posted by toddaniels

Rick holds a year-long, multi-entry Non-Immigrant Type O <-other visa based on marriage to a thai. That visa is good for a year from the date it's issued, it allows unlimited entries/exits to thailand with each entry getting a 90 day admitted until stamp.

These are no longer available at Consulates in the UK.

Correct, you're not gonna pull one outta Hull or Cardiff, but BUT they are still available in London.

Just like most of the honorary consulates in the US stopped issuing them, but they still DO sell them in Chicago, LA, New York & Washington DC

Plus you can pick one up at the thai consulate in Savannakhet for 5000baht and minimal paperwork too

Originally Posted by toddaniels

Rick you are confusing the financial requirements you met at the thai consulate in the US when applying for that year-long, multi-entry non-o visa with the requirements needed INSIDE the country when applying for a yearly extension of stay.

Every thai consulate in the world is run under the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, they set the policies. Every border crossing and immigration office inside the country is run under the Immigration Division of the Royal Thai Police, they set the policies inside the country concerning visas and extensions..

IF you were to apply for a yearly extension of stay at your immigration office you'd either
bank 400K baht in a thai bank account in your name only for 2 months prior to your application
OR
you'd go to your consulate and fill out the verification of funds from abroad letter stating you get a minimum of 40K baht per month income.
Those are the only two ways to meet the financial requirements for a yearly extension of stay based on marriage.

Understood, but I never had to show any proof of income while applying in LA which is another reason I have gotten a new visa the last 11 years. It is a simple two day process which I may or may not do this year. If I do opt for the extension, I would have to start that process prior to my current visa expiring, correct? As for the money, you are correct on the two methods and I will probably just show my bank statement since I have well over 400,000 in it. Don't I also need a letter from the bank, or does that vary from one immigration office to the next?

Originally Posted by toddaniels

Correct, you're not gonna pull one outta Hull or Cardiff, but BUT they are still available in London.

The Thai Embassy website is poorly written. The staff are ignorant beyond belief and they are totally unhelpful. Take a look at the visa section and you will see that the qualifications for different types of O Visa are all muddled together. A simple reading would lead one to believe that almost everything but the kitchen sink is required to get a visa.

I think my best bet is to contact my local Consulate today and use that office as a go-between with the Embassy. A muliti-entry visa would be very handy and I might even get one prior to my holiday in May.

Digby contact Liverpool consulate they are really helpful.

so... you can get a multi entry o visa as a spouse to a thai, and get a work permit on it and extend both for the 5 and 3 years needed, respectively?

Originally Posted by CaptainNemo

so... you can get a multi entry o visa as a spouse to a thai, and get a work permit on it and extend both for the 5 and 3 years needed, respectively?

nope, if you have a year long, multi-entry Non-O, you must exit the country every 90 days to get another 90 day stamp. That type of visa doesn't count towards the time needed for P/R or Citizenship.

Get a 90 day single entry Non-O based on marriage, then apply for a yearly extensions of stays for the next xxx years.

You can hold a work permit on either the year long, multi-entry or the yearly extension of stay if you got them based on marriage to a thai.

I thought the idea of a multi-entry was that you could just re-enter as many times as you wanted within the year that you had it for... and that was it.

90 day, single entry?! Is that because the 1-year single entry is the incorrect thing to have, or just an unnecessary extra expense?
...so that's where your 15 months comes from, hmm....

I found this on the work permit stuff... it sounds ballpark:

1. In the case of work without an employer
   1. Documents and evidence as outlined in Clauses (1)(a), (b), (d), (g), and (h)
   2. Copy of educational qualifications or copy of documents asserting that the applicant’s knowledge and experience is appropriate for/suited to the job requesting a work permit
   3. Copy of employment contract, copy of sales contract or copy of other documents stating the need for the applicant to work in the Kingdom
   4. In the case of work being within the Foreign Business Act jurisdictions: Copy of License for Operating a Business under the Foreign Business Act

New Thai Work Permit Law 2011

is it the case then that if you get a WP on a spouse visa, it's a self-employment one only?
I mean, if you got offered a job part way into it, I guess you'd have to do a new work permit with the new prospective employer, but not a new visa; and then if or when your job with them ended, you could do yet another self-employment work permit on your same visa... I guess the worry is trying to maintain the 3-years of continuous work permit... I wonder how contiguous they have to be, or if there are ways of covering gaps by manually paying some tax for the odd month or something.

Originally Posted by CaptainNemo

is it the case then that if you get a WP on a spouse visa, it's a self-employment one only?

I don't want to be a "pain in the arse" but you must be precise in the terminology you use. It is exceedingly unlikely that a farang would be allowed to work on a self employed basis unless he was running a business. If he was, another visa would be appropriate.

If when you use the term "self-employment you mean paid employment with an employer, that is you being the worker, then you are correct. A new work permit is required on change of employment but the same visa continues.

Well... the point was made that you can get a work permit on a spouse visa... so when you look at all the usual work permit stuff it talks about a work permit to work for a company...

AFAIK if your Thai spouse wanted to hire you for their company, they would have to have 2,000,000 THB capital, and 4 Thai staff, so...

...if this is something different in terms of a route to getting a work permit, then looking through that law I've linked to above, the only thing I have seen at first peremptory glance is this "work permit without employer" thing...

...and yes it looks like garbled rubbish on the face of it, but I'm guessing that Todd might have the appropriate Thai text of the appropriate Thai law to clear this one up.

STOP confusing a "visa" with an "extension of stay".

A visa is just that; a sticker or stamp in your passport for a certain reason. It allows you entry into the country for a specific time.

There are just two types of visas; tourist and Non-Immigrant.

Non-Immigrant visas have a variety of categories. The most common are ED<-education, B<-business & O<-other. The O visa is issued for many reasons; over 50, marriage to a thai national, marriage to a foreigner legally working here, raising kids, volunteering, and a few other reasons too.

Non-Immigrant visas are sold two ways (three actually, but I'll forgo the Type A sub-category for now).

• 90 day single entry which you get and then apply for an extension of stay in country
• year-long, multi-entry, which allows you to stay up to 90 days before you must exit/re-enter the country to get another 90 day stamp. <-you do that for the validity of the visa itself

The ONLY thing that counts towards either P/R or thai citizenship is unbroken yearly extensions of stays, period, end of story <-by that I mean each yearly extension of stay is "daisy-chained" to the previous one with NO lapses in between. So, holding a year-long multi-entry visa where you border bounce every 90 days during the year DOESN'T count. It's the yearly extensions of stays that you get inside the country at your local immigration office that matter.

A work permit is a booklet. You can't just apply to get one. You need to have the company you work for get the documentation together to go to the dept of labor and apply for it.
The primary employer listed in the work permit carries the liability of meeting the financial criteria for you to hold the work permit. You can have any number of other companies added to it as additional places of employment as long as the main company gives you permission to do so.
I know people in Bangkok who do consulting and have 10 different companies & addresses in their work permit booklet. As a rule a work permit is company and address specific so you can't be employed by xxx company at yyy address yet work at a different address for them.

FWIW; and despite clueless immigration officers and foreigner alike, there is NO such animal as either a marriage visa or a spouse visa. There is a Non-Immigrant Type O visa issued because you have a thai wife and then there's a yearly extension of stay based on that too.
There is also NO such animal as a retirement visa either, because that visa is a Type O also and issued because you're over 50. <-I know they stamp the word retirement into your passport when you get yearly extensions of stays BUT that doesn't mean it's what it's really called.

Additionally neither a visa or a yearly extension of stay can EVER be renewed. A visa expires on its "enter before" date, and an extension of stay expires on its "admitted until" date. You apply for brand new yearly extensions of stay every year.

I am sorry if my posts sound condescending. Honestly, I'm NOT tryin' to talk down to any of you people. I'm tryin' to talk to you on your level. Here, gimme your hand I'll pull you up here with me

Originally Posted by toddaniels

...
Non-Immigrant visas are sold two ways (three actually, but I'll forgo the Type A sub-category for now).

• 90 day single entry which you get and then apply for an extension of stay in country
• year-long, multi-entry, which allows you to stay up to 90 days before you must exit/re-enter the country to get another 90 day stamp. <-you do that for the validity of the visa itself

The ONLY thing that counts towards either P/R or thai citizenship is unbroken yearly extensions of stays, period, end of story <-by that I mean each yearly extension of stay is "daisy-chained" to the previous one with NO lapses in between.

So you can't just "pay tax" if you have a break in employment, (but you could have parallel employment, ideally as a main employment, such as your family firm, to maintain the daisy-chain of WP).

Originally Posted by toddaniels

So, holding a year-long multi-entry visa where you border bounce every 90 days during the year DOESN'T count.

OK ...so if you never "used" your multi-entry, by border bouncing, and just extended it at the end (After 12 months), that sounds like it might do the same thing, but that would pointless paying for.

Essentially you are saying you can only go for P/R or Dual-Nat on a single-entry visa+extensions(+plus work permit)

Originally Posted by toddaniels

It's the yearly extensions of stays that you get inside the country at your local immigration office that matter.

Understood. You can't leave the country for 5 years... if you want citizenship.

Originally Posted by toddaniels

A work permit is a booklet. You can't just apply to get one. You need to have the company you work for get the documentation together to go to the dept of labor and apply for it.
The primary employer listed in the work permit carries the liability of meeting the financial criteria for you to hold the work permit. You can have any number of other companies added to it as additional places of employment as long as the main company gives you permission to do so.
I know people in Bangkok who do consulting and have 10 different companies & addresses in their work permit booklet. As a rule a work permit is company and address specific so you can't be employed by xxx company at yyy address yet work at a different address for them.

Useful info.

So on a "spouse visa" (bear with me), when you said you can get a WP, that is nothing to do with your spouse or self-employment or something... it's just that the WP issuer can't cancel your visa that lets you be in the country, just your WP that lets you work there.

Originally Posted by toddaniels

FWIW; and despite clueless immigration officers and foreigner alike, there is NO such animal as either a marriage visa or a spouse visa. There is a Non-Immigrant Type O visa issued because you have a thai wife and then there's a yearly extension of stay based on that too.
...

Well, that does rather sound like the definition... but if you're quoting the Thai words; I guess it doesn't really matter, the effect is the same.

Originally Posted by toddaniels

Additionally neither a visa or a yearly extension of stay can EVER be renewed. A visa expires on its "enter before" date, and an extension of stay expires on its "admitted until" date. You apply for brand new yearly extensions of stay every year.

you get your 3-month single-entry, to enter, then it is destroyed on expiry and you extend your stay for 12 months based on your marriage to a Thai ("right to a family life etc...).
I guess you need to keep the original marriage cert with you to do this each time or copies are ok? I guess she doesn't have to accompany you to get it sorted?

Originally Posted by toddaniels

I am sorry if my posts sound condescending. Honestly, I'm NOT tryin' to talk down to any of you people. I'm tryin' to talk to you on your level. Here, gimme your hand I'll pull you up here with me

No, it's fine... I'm just ironing out every wrinkle, so I don't mind, i just want to remove any confusion.

On ThaiVisa, I saw a user called Patrick state that P/R is a pre-requisite for citizenship, you are disagreeing with this, aren't you?

Neemo, you really how to misunderstand. The multi-entry or single entry part is neither here nor there. It's the having to border bounce (every 90 days) that is the issue. Likewise, you can leave the country if you want so long as you follow the correct procedure (depending on your specific situation).

Originally Posted by Neverna

Neemo, you really how to misunderstand.

Neeverna... what you babble on about are? You really how to say know do!

Originally Posted by Neverna

The multi-entry or single entry part is neither here nor there. It's the having to border bounce (every 90 days) that is the issue. Likewise, you can leave the country if you want so long as you follow the correct procedure (depending on your specific situation).

Yeah, so you get a single (not a multi, because Todd says so), and and land in Swampy and drive up to Surin or Mukdahan or wherever to your Thai family barn, then after a couple of months, you go to the local immy office with your bank printouts and your marriage cert, and get a 1-year extension, then you go on 2 weeks' holiday to a trailer park in Grimsby or Hastings or wherever... and you can just stroll back in to Thailand and resume wherever you were on your 1-year extension of stay?

Originally Posted by CaptainNemo

On ThaiVisa, I saw a user called Patrick state that P/R is a pre-requisite for citizenship, you are disagreeing with this, aren't you?

As I have already told you numerous times;

Originally Posted by Barty

There are two common ways for foreigners to obtain citizenship:

1. through holding PR for the required amount of time or
2. through being married to a Thai citizen for the required amount of time.

Whichever route is chosen, the applicant must have had a work permit for three continuous years and must show evidence of paying the correct income tax for those three years.

If one is married to a Thai citizen, PR is not required. You only need it if you are not married to a Thai citizen. Reading through your posts I assume you are married to a Thai citizen. If you are it makes no sense for you to worry about PR since obtaining Thai citizenship through marriage is much easier, faster, and significantly cheaper.

Also, reading through your posts it would appear that you are possibly looking to find some way to set up a business with your wife so that you can get a work permit and the necessary annual tax returns. If this is what you are doing I would advise you to be very careful as the citizenship process has the special branch of the police and a lot of other government agencies investigating your history in Thailand. If they think that you are trying to get around the rules or are fraudulent in any way your application will be rejected.

May I suggest that next time you are in Bangkok to go the special branch of the police with your wife and ask them the requirements. They are very nice people and they try to be helpful. You will get all of the answers straight from the horses mouth.

Originally Posted by CaptainNemo

OK ...so if you never "used" your multi-entry, by border bouncing, and just extended it at the end (After 12 months), that sounds like it might do the same thing, but that would pointless paying for. Essentially you are saying you can only go for P/R or Dual-Nat on a single-entry visa+extensions(+plus work permit)

If you hold a year-long, multi entry Non-O visa you HAVE to border-bounce <-stamp out of thailand, stamp in&out of another country and stamp back into thailand EVERY 90 days to get another 90 day stamp.

A prerequisite when applying for a yearly extension of stay is that you hold a Non-Immigrant Visa, so whether it was a 90 day single entry or a year-long multi-entry, it doesn't make a difference. When you have 30 days left on any of the admitted until stamps you go apply for the yearly extension of stay

Originally Posted by CaptainNemo

Understood. You can't leave the country for 5 years... if you want citizenship.

Wrong, of course you can leave the country! You'd just need a re-entry permit to keep your current extension of stay alive AND return to thailand before it expired so you could apply for the next extension of stay.

Originally Posted by CaptainNemo

So on a "spouse visa" (bear with me), when you said you can get a WP, that is nothing to do with your spouse or self-employment or something... it's just that the WP issuer can't cancel your visa that lets you be in the country, just your WP that lets you work there.

Correct

Originally Posted by CaptainNemo

I guess you need to keep the original marriage cert with you to do this each time or copies are ok? I guess she doesn't have to accompany you to get it sorted?

Getting a yearly extension of stay based on marriage to a thai nation requires a PILE 'o paperwork, photos, the marriage certificates, copies of your wife's i/d, house book, copies of pages in your passport, a map to you house, etc. YES your wife goes with you EVERY year. Once you apply your application will go under consideration for 30 days (and depending on where live you may have an in home visit from the immigration officers), then you go back to get the extension stamped in AND if you are going to leave the country during the year, you'd need a re-entry permit too

Originally Posted by CaptainNemo

On ThaiVisa, I saw a user called Patrick state that P/R is a pre-requisite for citizenship, you are disagreeing with this, aren't you?

It is not a requirement that you hold PR in order to get thai citizenship IF you are married to a thai national. You work the required number of years, you have unbroken extensions of stays for the required years, you pay tax the required years etc.

FWIW: it is NOT possible for two extensions of stays to be valid at the same time.

No matter how early you apply for the following years extension, the minute they stamp the next yearly extension in your passport it cancels the old one. I've applied for a yearly extension 45 days before my current one expired (because Bangkok allows that). The second I got the new extension the old one is canceled (even though the permission to stay date on it hadn't expired yet).

OFF TOPIC:
Another anecdotal thing I'll relate is, it seems when you apply for a new yearly extension of stay and you had a re-entry permit on the prior extension, EVEN if that re-entry permit hasn't expired, once you get a new extension, the old re-entry permit isn't valid anymore. You need to buy a new one so the date is "sync'd" to your current extension.

A friend applied for a new yearly extension of stay 40 days before his current one expired. After he got the new extension he decide to go out of country on a vacation.

He thought, seeing as he'd bought a re-entry permit on old extension and seeing as it was still valid, he'd be fine comin' back into the country as long as he did so before the "length of stay until" date stamped on the re-entry permit

WRONG!! When he flew into the country the officer saw he'd gotten a new yearly extension and even though the re-entry permit expiration date hadn't passed he was told it was no good. He got stamped in on a 30 day visa exempt stamp.

He even went down to the Immigration office in Suvarnabhumi and filed an appeal (which you can do on almost EVERY decision an immigration officer makes). It was reviewed and they called him a couple days later stating they made the correct ruling, his re-entry permit was "tied" to his previous extension, not the new one.

He had to start the entire get a 90 day single entry Non-O, wait and apply for a yearly extension of stay process all over again..

Like I said, it was off topic, but still good to know