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  1. #1
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    Visa crackdown risks stranding Phuket expats in Myanmar

    Visa crackdown risks stranding Phuket expats in Myanmar
    Chutharat Plerin
    2014-05-05


    Ranong Immigration warns that any foreigner who exits Thailand after using three consecutive visa exemption entries must get a proper visa.

    Photo: Chris Husted

    PHUKET: Officials at Ranong Immigration today confirmed to the Phuket Gazette that they are turning away any foreigners attempting to enter Thailand after using three consecutive “walk-in” visas.

    The news follows reports of immigration officers allegedly stopping Phuket expats on visa runs to Ranong from exiting the country. Ranong, nearly 400km north of Phuket, has for decades been a prime destination for foreigners conducting "visa runs".

    “We began enforcing the rule from May 3 [Saturday] after receiving an order from Bangkok,” an officer at Ranong Immigration told the Gazette on condition of anonymity this morning.

    “We have already spoken with several foreigners and strongly advised that they do not exit Thailand to arrive in Kauthaung [in Myanmar], as there is no Thai embassy or consulate there.

    “We explained that if they went and tried to re-enter Thailand without first obtaining a visa from a Thai embassy or consulate, we would have to refuse them entry because they would have already entered Thailand three consecutive times on ‘visa exemption’ status.”

    Any foreigners who ignore the advice risk being stranded in Myanmar, the officer warned.

    The officer explained that the crackdown on the “three-visa-and-out rule” was aimed at catching foreign criminals staying in Thailand.

    “This is just the first step in a crackdown on expats and tourists who keep renewing their visas so that they can live in Thailand for the wrong reasons,” he said.

    “Some foreigners live here and form their own ‘networks’ to carry out illegal business. Some of the people we are targeting are known associates of international criminals.”

    Visa run companies in Phuket have been notified of the situation, the officer assured.

    “These companies can explain the rules to foreigners before they book them on a visa run,” he said. “This will help avoid any problems at the Ranong checkpoint.”

    “As I said, this is just the first step as we attempt to root out foreign criminals. The next step might be tougher than this one, but law-abiding foreigners should be aware that we are not picking on any particular nationalities – criminals are the ones we want to catch.”

    Any foreigners caught overstaying their permit to stay are subject to a fine of 500 baht per day, up to a maximum fine of 20,000 baht.

    Foreigners caught grossly abusing the maximum overstay fine rule risk being deported and added to the immigration blacklist, barring the foreigner from re-entering the country (story here).

    phuketgazette.net

  2. #2
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    That's going to be inconvenient.

  3. #3
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    About time too, get a proper visa/extension if you want to stay here long term.

  4. #4
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    Seems over the years they keep tightening up, closing options and generally making it harder.
    If it keeps scum out, good, but I fear that long term it may get harder for us legit long term stayers.
    Worse comes to worse, Laos a short bike ride away, 32 Km, life will go on.

  5. #5
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    These crackdowns seem to occur at random intervals. I think this was happening while Thaksin was PM too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thormaturge View Post
    These crackdowns seem to occur at random intervals. I think this was happening while Thaksin was PM too.
    Crack downs are one thing, but changing rules and interpretation of laws is another.
    I've see changes over the years, used to be child support extensions of stay, 400,000 in the bank, one day, no seeding period. Gone, need court order, no rule change, just different interpretation of the rules.
    You used to get spouse O multi entry visa in Asia easy, now only Savaneket without bank accounts.
    As my visa will die in 3 months, looking at changing over to a W/P, it's a cost thing, may be cheaper to fly to OZ, than hire myself and a worker, have 10 percentage tappers now, but have to pay taxes etc for me and one employee. Jim

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    A close Burma shave
    The corollary maybe the Myanmar guys will be reluctant to allow anyone in if they are unsure they can 'turn around"

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    Quote Originally Posted by jamescollister
    As my visa will die in 3 months, looking at changing over to a W/P, it's a cost thing, may be cheaper to fly to OZ, than hire myself and a worker, have 10 percentage tappers now, but have to pay taxes etc for me and one employee. Jim
    You need 4 employees, all registered with Social security, having to pay that, and tax for them as well. Also, expect a visit to your registered office address by immigration these days to check these employees are employed and working. They are getting hungry these days!

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    ^
    This is where it gets to be fun. If you are on a non-imm B visa for the first year then you need two employees. The four employees become necessary if you decide to extend the visa.

    No problems here and if immigration look like giving me hassle they have some very determined staff giving them a hard time.
    I see fish. They are everywhere. They don't know they are fish.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thormaturge View Post
    ^
    This is where it gets to be fun. If you are on a non-imm B visa for the first year then you need two employees. The four employees become necessary if you decide to extend the visa.

    No problems here and if immigration look like giving me hassle they have some very determined staff giving them a hard time.
    OK - if you say so. I was not talking about the Visa though, but the Work Permit.

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    ^

    Yes .. but the work permit depends upon the type of visa. Initial non-imm B and you need two staff to get the work permit. Extended visa and you need four to get the WP.

    I think immigration are getting hot on ghost employees.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by pseudolus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jamescollister
    As my visa will die in 3 months, looking at changing over to a W/P, it's a cost thing, may be cheaper to fly to OZ, than hire myself and a worker, have 10 percentage tappers now, but have to pay taxes etc for me and one employee. Jim
    You need 4 employees, all registered with Social security, having to pay that, and tax for them as well. Also, expect a visit to your registered office address by immigration these days to check these employees are employed and working. They are getting hungry these days!
    Way I read, if wife is partner or owner only one employee needed. This is not a paper company, real factory and land, industrial, owned by the company. Don't make any money, but been paying taxes for 6 years now, all legal.
    Will see the accountant, seems to make things happen, if not will look at other options.

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    They are also limiting the amount of tourist Visas they give you .

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    I wonder how this will effect the statistics for the number of people entering Thailand.
    A person doing the 15 day VES runs would count as 26 people a year visiting Thailand .
    Could reduce Thailands yearly tourist figures by millions

  15. #15
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    While I hate to agree with the poster known as "Fluke", if they implement this rule at every land border crossing; the "tourist entry numbers" Tourism Authority of Thailand reports yearly will certainly fall off.

    Now honestly this news should actually come as no surprise to what I call "runnerz" (people who live here by runnin'-for-the-border). There are already border crossings up north near Chiang Mai / Chiang Rai which have limited the number of "visa exempt" entries you can get by bouncing into Burma for quite some time now.

    There are a few Thai Embassies in S/E Asia (Vientiane being one) which will only issue a foreigner X number of back to back 60 day tourist visas. After that they stamp your passport with; "go somewhere else for a visa you foreign scumbag; because we think you're living in thailand on tourist visas!!" (BTW: that was paraphrased from the thai writing on the stamp).

    Now they did get some of the info wrong, but those "un-named immigrations officials" in Phuket are famous for spouting off only to be pulled back into line by Bangkok.

    They are talking about "visa exempt" entries NOT people who hold valid tourist visas..

    I also find it interesting that it was reported they "heard" from Bangkok on the 3rd, which is Saturday and on a long holiday weekend too. Just doesn't ring true to me.

    Another thing they got wrong was the 15 day visa exempt stamp for land border crossings. Not too long ago they (as in the immigrations powers that be in Bangkok) changed the rules and gave 30 day visa exempt stamps at land borders for the G7 countries.

    Still, it is not hard for even a semi clueless foreigners (which seem to be the majority of ones I run across here) to find a long term solution to facilitating their stay in the glorious "Land 'O Thaiz". It's just they're either too stupid, too lazy, or too poor to go those routes.

    Interesting news for sure, but I'm sure there're already "work arounds" in place by those visa run companies. That is a big ball 'o wax and it is unlikely that they're just gonna roll over and lose the lucrative "lug foreigners to the border" trade without a fight or a plan-b.
    "Whoever said `Money can`t buy you love or joy` obviously was not making enough money." <- quote by Gene $immon$ of the rock group KISS

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    The only outcome of this will be a larger number of overstayers.

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    There are more than a few reports that people on LONG overstays (starting at about 3 years and up) CAN'T simply show up at the airport OR the border, plop down the 20K baht and wing/walk their way outta the country as easily as they did before.

    I called two visa run companies today and they won't even run a foreigner to the border if they have more than a year overstay!

    In talking to someone (who actually deals with over-stayers and embassies on a daily basis), it would appear they are tryin' to "run them thru the legal system" and create a data base on chronic over-stayers.

    For a while now, more and more people who get caught out on some other offense while on a LONG overstay, has landed them in Immigrations Detention (the one behind Suan Plu Immigrations), had them hauled before a judge, got them fined, got them driven to the airport (and charged for it) and had them being deported back to the country where your passport was issued (instead of like before, to any old country you could go to without a visa)..

    I'm not saying some people weren't able to 'grease the wheels' when they got caught and somehow managed to walk away.

    I'm saying that I believe the writing is on the wall insofar as they are really gonna make an effort to clamp down on people living here with back to back 30 day visa exempt stamps AND take a much harder stance on long term overstayers caught running amuck inside the country.

    Take it for what it's worth, and by that I mean feel free to disagree or throw stones at me all you want, but don't whine when any of the aforementioned stuff starts happening..

    Don't hate the messenger, hate the message!

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thormaturge
    I think immigration are getting hot on ghost employees.
    about fucking time,

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    Quote Originally Posted by toddaniels View Post
    Interesting news for sure, but I'm sure there're already "work arounds" in place by those visa run companies. That is a big ball 'o wax and it is unlikely that they're just gonna roll over and lose the lucrative "lug foreigners to the border" trade without a fight or a plan-b.
    The Visa run companies that I have used just dealt with the transport and didnt get involved with the actual Visa business .
    There used to be a few daily CM -Vientiane buses , now there is just one and the last time that I went, which was a few weeks ago, the bus there and back wasnt full.
    I was at a Thai immigration recently and a Vietnamese long term Visa runner was there also, he explainned that he had the maximum VES and maximum tourist Visa and they simply told him that he cannot stay in Thailand

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    Just seen that theres some felangs stranded in Tachilek, Myanmar .
    That cant leave Tachilek and they cant enter into Thailand .
    If Thailand dont let them back in, Myanmar will have to deport them .
    Although the river dividing the two Countries is swimable

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    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Fluke View Post
    Just seen that theres some felangs stranded in Tachilek, Myanmar .
    That cant leave Tachilek and they cant enter into Thailand .
    If Thailand dont let them back in, Myanmar will have to deport them .
    Although the river dividing the two Countries is swimable
    where did you see that as fact

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluke
    If Thailand dont let them back in, Myanmar will have to deport them .
    Why would they have to deport them? Myanmar let them in, they are allowed to stay as long as the stamp in their passport says. They are free to leave whenever they want before that. They just can't go to Thailand.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pickel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fluke
    If Thailand dont let them back in, Myanmar will have to deport them .
    Why would they have to deport them? Myanmar let them in, they are allowed to stay as long as the stamp in their passport says. They are free to leave whenever they want before that. They just can't go to Thailand.
    The Myanmar Visa isssued at the border only allows you to stay in the border town, Tachilek . It doesnt allow you to visit anywhere else in the Country , the Burmese immigration also keep your passport at the border and give it back when you leave .
    The only way out is back across into Thailand .
    Once the Myanmar Visa has expired , they would have to be deported , because its not possible for them to leave any other way

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluke
    the Burmese immigration also keep your passport at the border and give it back when you leave .
    I find that hard to believe. There is also an airport in Tachilek where you can fly to Yangon and then out of the country.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pickel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fluke
    the Burmese immigration also keep your passport at the border and give it back when you leave .
    I find that hard to believe. There is also an airport in Tachilek where you can fly to Yangon and then out of the country.
    You my find it hard to believe, but it is true .
    You hand in your passport at Myanmar immigration, they give you a card with your photo on it and stating that you cannot go outside of the permitted area, Tachilek and when you leave, you hand in the card and get given your passport back . There are checkpoints on the road leaving Tachilek .
    Going to Rangoon isnt permitted carrying the card they give you .
    And even if you did manage to get to Rangoon, you wouldnt be able to leave the Country without a passport

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