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Dan

And also not what the poor fucker was getting laid into for. If someone wants to have a go at EFL teachers for not having a BEd/PGCE or for lacking a background in Applied Linguistics, then I'll - maybe - agree and if I don't, I still think it's a reasonable stance. But hardly any ELF teachers fit this profile; most have shitty, pointless degrees from shitty, pointless universities and whether they get it by having the patience to sit through crap lectures for 3 years or by buying some absurd document off the internet doesn't make much difference.

Spin

I have never taught inThailand, I know very little about the topic. I did hear one thing though and thats that the kids do some kind of vote each term to assess the teacher, if they dont like you, your out.

Perhaps somebody can confirm?

killerbees

It's also really important to bring back khanom or gifts for people in your office when you go away somewhere. If you don't do that, people will dislike you. Once the chatter about you turns negative, you're focked.

As far as the kids liking you goes, it's quite important. They are forced to study English, whether or not they have any natural interest or inclination to do so. They don't get a choice between French, English, and German. They must take English. This breeds a lot of ill will. They're also mostly taught by a bunch of old biddies who can't speak English to save their lives. It's rote learning. The kids don't understand. The syllabus progresses from year to year whether or not the students do. Most M6 students speak at an M1 level but they still use M6 textbooks. Then you take a bloody foreigner and toss him or her into the mix. Someone who most likely doesn't understand the culture or educational culture. Someone who may or may not have any experience teaching. Someone who might be drunk in the morning or a right c*nt. Does that sound like a recipe for success? These are the teachers these kids have had in the past. This is the legacy with which you have to contend.

The odds are stacked against you from the moment you walk into a classroom like that. If, by some miracle, you can get those kids on your side and actually show them that learning and taking responsibility for their education and their lives can be a worthwhile, rewarding and possibly enjoyable thing to do, I don't care what piece of paper you have.

Obviously, some schools are quite nice and the students are eager to learn (or so I hear). The above paragraph is based on a place where I worked previously, where a polite request for a student to sit down often resulted in a student saying something cute like, "Fokk your mother."

Milkman

Anyone with the above credentials should not even be teaching in Thailand.

Unless they really love the place, have financially security, or have other options.

deathstardan

Getting back to the OP.

It's a moot point now arguing about the merits of degrees, diploma mills and such, the guy is in a predicament and sadly like a lot of things in LoS regarding foreigners, he's being fed to the wolves.

A very good friend of mine was in the same situation. He had a diploma mill degree, and when the shit went down, he argued that the *degree* was from a private, unaccredited University that was registered as a foreign Institute in the UK and It operated within the law and was not illegal. So they could not accuse him of falsifying papers. He had a *degree* from a *University*.

It's whether or not they will now accept unaccredited *degrees*...

So if I was your friend, he has already submitted it once, I would submit it again and If push comes to shove, argue the same point. It's a degree from an unaccredited University. There are many out there.

By the way, my friend went on to do a Masters at a Bonafide Thai Uni on the strength of his *B.A*. So now the M.O.E. don't give a shit either, he's an M.A. and no way would they question him now.

I'm not saying it's right. I'm just telling the story.

Rural Surin

'Real' job...??

tropic of cancer

There are some truly rancid people contributing to this thread (and some sincere ones too). It really is a joke that these folk, who seize each and every chance to attack tefl-ers, pretend to 'care' about Thai kids education. Bitter, malevolent trolls.

2 billion people are estimated to be learning English in the world; let's immediately abandon their classes and weed out every teacher without an M.A in linguistics!

Milkman

"Real" jobs are hard to get. But EFL for cash, is not a "real" job.

It's not easy. It's challenging, IMO.

But it's not a "real" job. It's a job that, the longer you do it, the worse off you are.

withnallstoke

This is true. At the end of each school year, the students are asked to comment on their teachers regarding the likes of
"does your teacher dress smartly?"
"does your teacher understand their subject?"
"is your teacher punctual?"
etc.
That in itself is pretty stupid - 11 year old Som and his muckers comment on whether a teacher understands their stuff - but stupider still is that the teachers position may depend on the comments recieved.
Make for bloody interesting reading though.

rubbajohnny

Of course JJ is our Moses of proper Reapproi/re-apply standards

My lowest O level ws English but I ended up Training English Teachers and got a real B ED Exon and PGCE etc and am a native speaker
When you are let loose in UK schools real Police checks fgoing back decades are done before you set foot in aclassroom.
However most rural schools see and use a farang as white 'Window dressing"
What is far more worrying is lack of police checks Paul Gadd aka Gary Pedo could get a job tomorrow!
Plus phoney degrees I hope your vet or prostate surgeon dont have a KSR degree The head of English at a Thai Uni where I taught could not speak English Fr Steve warned me not o even say hello in corridor unless her fake degree was exposed.
My advice to the fellow is do the right thing as itll always hang over you.
You can do real degree online e.g.Open Uni tho not cheap.These phoney ones leave you open to discovery blackmail and deportation.

rubbajohnny

By the way, my friend went on to do a Masters at a Bonafide Thai Uni on the strength of his *B.A*. So now the M.O.E. don't give a shit either, he's an M.A. and no way would they question him now.

That's why Thailnd and Thai Unis are considered ajoke in the real world

When in Gulf I helped UK DOS recruit any applications from Siam went straight in bin unopened.

This corruption is all part of top heavy hegemony of Hi-sos whose sons and daughters end up 'managing " TG TOT AOT etc
real money is for Chinese of course but even Hurray HuaHins and PornTIPTOPS are assured places at Wigan Poly and Vancouver Hairdressing Uni with their Masters from
Rajabhat Kamphaeng Phet etc

rubbajohnny

This guy really knows what he is talking about
In addition to pedagogical issues a lot is performance
In same way we all enjoy watching a good act on stage or concert even better a cat fight The Falang in Isaan Mathyom 3 is a bit like one of those demostration sports at the Olympics or Bra ads on the subway to catch your attention rather than change the world.
TEFL is last resort of idle alcoholic drifters and those deluded souls who think they make a difference of course the past Masters like me+JJ excepted

withnallstoke

Buying one from KS road is quicker and probably worth more than one from Rajabhat Kamphaeng Phet.

rubbajohnny

Agreed unless you wish to be rector or Head of Dept there!

good2bhappy

the uniforms are better

Mr R Sole

Well thank you for a lot of the comments, a few questions answered from my point of view, about teaching in the LOSneers.

1: From my experience, being liked by your students keeps you in employment..so sorry JJ but it's true. 'Accredited as much as you want'. If they don't like ya then your GONE. that's a fact.

2: I know teachers that teach English that are from Russia, Denmark, Italy...you name it.

3: At least my mates born in the UK..so it's his native language.

4: He does make a difference at his schools, He has had glowing references from all the schools he's worked for. So his only failing is that he didn't expect his life to take this turn, and that he didn't get a degree when he was young. From the way you put it JJ, it's like he's a horrendous criminal?

5: I agree that just because you got a degree from a UK 'Uni' and you sat though years of lectures and gave the examining board what they wanted to hear/read (in some circumstances, no freedom of thought is allowed in some subjects!!) doesn't make a good teacher. But what the hell does???
Just because you got papers to prove it??

Some of my teachers were lousy at my schools in the UK, some teachers didn't give a sh*t, rarely any effort to make sure the kids were working or learning!

IMO being a good teacher means that you convey the text or conversation to the students successfully, and that they obviously know what it means.... Ta Da not bloody rocket science is it really over here.

They're not learning bloody Chaucer for gods sakes are they JJ ???????

so what he's got a blag degree, if he's doing a good job and really actually cares about the students education..so please stop being up your own arse (you know who you are)

Sorry but my degree is in Telecommunications, so should I not be teaching either..also I didn't expect to be married with a baby in the LOSneers either...but such is life. you take it as it comes

kingwilly

yeah true.

theudonshawn

The ethics of using a bogus degree aside, here's some actionable advice:

Tell your pal to go for it, I personally know people who teach on bogus BAs which have been submitted to BK. He may be alright.

Tell him to keep largish amounts of cash on hand (20k baht or so at a min) if immigration or MOE people show up, innocently ask if there is a fine you can pay on the spot, discretely pull out the money and pictures of your pregnant wife or better still, a baby and family pics of you and the in-laws in a shack in the sticks. (sounds silly, but Thai's take Song San seriously).

Action: there is a company called "Media Kids" google it. They have contracts all over thailand and they can manage it if you don't have a degree but can get the job done. They (and others) do this by getting you a 90 day non imm B every term.

Also, once you have the kid, you can get an automatic 2 month extension to a tourist visa for "visiting family". In Laos you can apply for, and get a 2 month tourist visa every time you show up.

The 90 days in and out rule only applies to "on-entry" visas. If you leave the country and get a "real" tourist visa, there is no 90 day limit.

Get a degree at Thai university and you will be just fine... You can pretty much buy one of those as well, but you gotta do the time. Once you are enrolled, you get a visa for the duration.

jandajoy

Fundamental error of the system.

Not an issue if they're "fluent", and explain that it's not their L1.

Whoopy shit. No longer a valid argument IMHO


Just looking for the best. As in, if the Thai government got it's act together it would be reasonably easy to turn the situation around

Agreed.

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Marmite the Dog

And if they did, they would find that they would either have to pay 2 or 3 times as much to attract the qualified teacher or if they weren't prepared to do that (which they're not) they would end up with no teachers (which is what they're beginning to find already with their stupid bloody teacher's course).

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I will meet the blackness and the blackness will be eternal