Thread: Diploma-Degree mills

Would the management please explain why over half this thread has been dumped into MKP? For what possible reason? a PM would do.

This is TV madness.

Originally Posted by Dan

Really, if the guy's doing a good job - or if he's doing a bad job, for that matter - having some shitty degree in Media Studies from Bournemouth Poly isn't really going to make much difference.

Exactly.

Sure they do. This thread is - obviously enough - a case in point. And as others have said, working illegally in a foreign country and getting your girlfriend knocked up isn't the brightest thing to do but that's not really a justification for climbing up on that invitingly high horse and proclaiming his wickedness because he - horror of horrors - lied about his qualifications when doing so has pretty much no impact on his professional abilities.

Originally Posted by Dan

when doing so has pretty much no impact on his professional abilities.

How'd you evaluate and judge that then, as a professional?

Originally Posted by Dan

And as others have said, working illegally in a foreign country and getting your girlfriend knocked up isn't the brightest thing to do but that's not really a justification for climbing up on that invitingly high horse and proclaiming his wickedness because he - horror of horrors - lied about his qualifications

true enough.

Originally Posted by Dan

when doing so has pretty much no impact on his professional abilities.

not exactly convinced of that point, however.

Hands up if any of you really think that Thai kids studying in a government school will leave speaking English with any proficiency?

If this guy can get just a handful to even a low level he has succeeded where many 'proper' teachers have failed.

Originally Posted by jandajoy

Originally Posted by Dan

when doing so has pretty much no impact on his professional abilities.

How'd you evaluate and judge that then, as a professional?

Because I don't understand what the relationship is - or is alleged to be - between one's having a degree and one's ability to teach English and, as far as I can see, having a degree is neither sufficient to qualify as a good teacher, nor necessary. If the guy is doing a good job, then that's the end of it. Clearly, you think that there is a relationship so what is it?

^^^Good point. Some of those schools are pretty hairy. It really is a case (IMO, of course) of reaching some of the kids somehow. If this guy is well-liked by his students, well, it's important to really grasp the significance of that. You can have degrees up and down, but if those kids don't like you enough to turn up to class and open their ears... all the book-learnin' in the world isn't going to make a difference.

So he lied. I probably wouldn't hire him to teach. So what? There are some schools out in the boonies that are dying for teachers. They don't give a shit if they're old and decrepit, German, 18 years old, degree or no degree. They need somebody.

A relevant degree of course goes without saying.

B.Ed
B.A. English, I'd include Drama and or foreign languages plus a PGCE or equivalent 1 year teaching qualification.

dip. TEFL

M.A. Applied Linguistics. M.A. Ed.

RSA Cert. grade A. or equivalent. Preferably from a reputable center such as IH or the like.

Basically a solid grounding in language, linguistics and communication with a "teaching" qualification on top.

Originally Posted by killerbees

but if those kids don't like you

The least important factor for a classroom teacher. Completely irrelevant.

Originally Posted by inconsequential

Not in Thailand it aint.

Thai classrooms and kids are different are they ?

Originally Posted by inconsequential

The Thai "system" of education is quite different.

Originally Posted by jandajoy

Thai classrooms and kids are different are they ?

Not the question.

To attempt to "teach" classes of 60 bored 15 year olds out in the sticks a language that they don't want to learn anyway, would take at least a sainthood, plus a few years of life experience. Horses for courses and all that.

Originally Posted by jandajoy

A relevant degree of course goes without saying.

B.Ed
B.A. English, I'd include Drama and or foreign languages plus a PGCE or equivalent 1 year teaching qualification.

dip. TEFL

M.A. Applied Linguistics. M.A. Ed.

RSA Cert. grade A. or equivalent. Preferably from a reputable center such as IH or the like.

Basically a solid grounding in language, linguistics and communication with a "teaching" qualification on top.

Complete overkill for most Thai schools.

Originally Posted by Marmite the Dog

Originally Posted by jandajoy

A relevant degree of course goes without saying.

B.Ed
B.A. English, I'd include Drama and or foreign languages plus a PGCE or equivalent 1 year teaching qualification.

dip. TEFL

M.A. Applied Linguistics. M.A. Ed.

RSA Cert. grade A. or equivalent. Preferably from a reputable center such as IH or the like.

Basically a solid grounding in language, linguistics and communication with a "teaching" qualification on top.

Complete overkill for most Thai schools.

And also not what the poor fucker was getting laid into for. If someone wants to have a go at EFL teachers for not having a BEd/PGCE or for lacking a background in Applied Linguistics, then I'll - maybe - agree and if I don't, I still think it's a reasonable stance. But hardly any ELF teachers fit this profile; most have shitty, pointless degrees from shitty, pointless universities and whether they get it by having the patience to sit through crap lectures for 3 years or by buying some absurd document off the internet doesn't make much difference.

Originally Posted by jandajoy

The least important factor for a classroom teacher. Completely irrelevant.

I have never taught inThailand, I know very little about the topic. I did hear one thing though and thats that the kids do some kind of vote each term to assess the teacher, if they dont like you, your out.

Perhaps somebody can confirm?

It's also really important to bring back khanom or gifts for people in your office when you go away somewhere. If you don't do that, people will dislike you. Once the chatter about you turns negative, you're focked.

As far as the kids liking you goes, it's quite important. They are forced to study English, whether or not they have any natural interest or inclination to do so. They don't get a choice between French, English, and German. They must take English. This breeds a lot of ill will. They're also mostly taught by a bunch of old biddies who can't speak English to save their lives. It's rote learning. The kids don't understand. The syllabus progresses from year to year whether or not the students do. Most M6 students speak at an M1 level but they still use M6 textbooks. Then you take a bloody foreigner and toss him or her into the mix. Someone who most likely doesn't understand the culture or educational culture. Someone who may or may not have any experience teaching. Someone who might be drunk in the morning or a right c*nt. Does that sound like a recipe for success? These are the teachers these kids have had in the past. This is the legacy with which you have to contend.

The odds are stacked against you from the moment you walk into a classroom like that. If, by some miracle, you can get those kids on your side and actually show them that learning and taking responsibility for their education and their lives can be a worthwhile, rewarding and possibly enjoyable thing to do, I don't care what piece of paper you have.

Obviously, some schools are quite nice and the students are eager to learn (or so I hear). The above paragraph is based on a place where I worked previously, where a polite request for a student to sit down often resulted in a student saying something cute like, "Fokk your mother."

Originally Posted by Marmite the Dog

Originally Posted by jandajoy

A relevant degree of course goes without saying.

B.Ed
B.A. English, I'd include Drama and or foreign languages plus a PGCE or equivalent 1 year teaching qualification.

dip. TEFL

M.A. Applied Linguistics. M.A. Ed.

RSA Cert. grade A. or equivalent. Preferably from a reputable center such as IH or the like.

Basically a solid grounding in language, linguistics and communication with a "teaching" qualification on top.

Complete overkill for most Thai schools.

Anyone with the above credentials should not even be teaching in Thailand.

Unless they really love the place, have financially security, or have other options.

Getting back to the OP.

It's a moot point now arguing about the merits of degrees, diploma mills and such, the guy is in a predicament and sadly like a lot of things in LoS regarding foreigners, he's being fed to the wolves.

A very good friend of mine was in the same situation. He had a diploma mill degree, and when the shit went down, he argued that the *degree* was from a private, unaccredited University that was registered as a foreign Institute in the UK and It operated within the law and was not illegal. So they could not accuse him of falsifying papers. He had a *degree* from a *University*.

It's whether or not they will now accept unaccredited *degrees*...

So if I was your friend, he has already submitted it once, I would submit it again and If push comes to shove, argue the same point. It's a degree from an unaccredited University. There are many out there.

By the way, my friend went on to do a Masters at a Bonafide Thai Uni on the strength of his *B.A*. So now the M.O.E. don't give a shit either, he's an M.A. and no way would they question him now.

I'm not saying it's right. I'm just telling the story.

Originally Posted by Milkman

Maybe this fraud should go back to his home-country and get a real job.

'Real' job...??

There are some truly rancid people contributing to this thread (and some sincere ones too). It really is a joke that these folk, who seize each and every chance to attack tefl-ers, pretend to 'care' about Thai kids education. Bitter, malevolent trolls.

2 billion people are estimated to be learning English in the world; let's immediately abandon their classes and weed out every teacher without an M.A in linguistics!

Originally Posted by Rural Surin

Originally Posted by Milkman

Maybe this fraud should go back to his home-country and get a real job.

'Real' job...??

"Real" jobs are hard to get. But EFL for cash, is not a "real" job.

It's not easy. It's challenging, IMO.

But it's not a "real" job. It's a job that, the longer you do it, the worse off you are.

Originally Posted by Spin

I have never taught inThailand, I know very little about the topic. I did hear one thing though and thats that the kids do some kind of vote each term to assess the teacher, if they dont like you, your out. Perhaps somebody can confirm?

This is true. At the end of each school year, the students are asked to comment on their teachers regarding the likes of
"does your teacher dress smartly?"
"does your teacher understand their subject?"
"is your teacher punctual?"
etc.
That in itself is pretty stupid - 11 year old Som and his muckers comment on whether a teacher understands their stuff - but stupider still is that the teachers position may depend on the comments recieved.
Make for bloody interesting reading though.

Of course JJ is our Moses of proper Reapproi/re-apply standards

My lowest O level ws English but I ended up Training English Teachers and got a real B ED Exon and PGCE etc and am a native speaker
When you are let loose in UK schools real Police checks fgoing back decades are done before you set foot in aclassroom.
However most rural schools see and use a farang as white 'Window dressing"
What is far more worrying is lack of police checks Paul Gadd aka Gary Pedo could get a job tomorrow!
Plus phoney degrees I hope your vet or prostate surgeon dont have a KSR degree The head of English at a Thai Uni where I taught could not speak English Fr Steve warned me not o even say hello in corridor unless her fake degree was exposed.
My advice to the fellow is do the right thing as itll always hang over you.
You can do real degree online e.g.Open Uni tho not cheap.These phoney ones leave you open to discovery blackmail and deportation.