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Mid · 11-12-2008, 09:42 AM

Multiple-choice questions to blame for low grades
December 11, 2008

A leading mathematician yesterday said Thai children's low academic standards could be blamed on multiple-choice questions used in examinations.

Prof Narong Punnim was speaking a day after the Institute for the Promotion of Teaching Science and Technology (IPST) announced that an international assessment showed that Thai students were not up to par in mathematics and science. IPST added that the performance had clearly dropped when compared with a previous assessment.

"Multiple-choice questions have been an ongoing problem in Thailand's education system," Narong pointed out. "Such evaluation methods are destroying our children but most teachers are still unaware of it."

He explained that multiple-choice questions allowed children to pick any answer and still stand a chance at passing the exam.

Narong, a lecturer at Srinakharinwirot University, chaired the mathematics panel at the Promotion of Academic Olympiads and Development of Science Education Foundation under late Princess HRH Galyani Vadhana's patronage.

The professor also criticised the procedure of repeatedly holding make-up exams until students pass.

"As far as I know, Chitralada School is the only school that requires its students to repeat a course if they fail the exam," he said.

He said he also disagreed with the methods used by teachers these days.
"The teachers are too preoccupied with getting their students through entrance exams, instead of concentrating on giving them knowledge," Narong complained.

nationmultimedia.com

spiff · 11-12-2008, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mid

He explained that multiple-choice questions allowed children to pick any answer and still stand a chance at passing the exam.

Yeah, and often the offered choices contain more than one right answer, or none at all, if our daughter's English tests are anything to go by.

benbaaa · 11-12-2008, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spiff

Yeah, and often the offered choices contain more than one right answer, or none at all, if our daughter's English tests are anything to go by.

That, unfortunately, is very true. One simple example from here: http://www.english-room.com/someany_01.htm

Dumb fucks.

kingwilly · 11-12-2008, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mid

He explained that multiple-choice questions allowed children to pick any answer and still stand a chance at passing the exam.

not really.

basic combination theory. odds are incredibly remote.

benbaaa · 11-12-2008, 11:00 AM

Two more.

CharleyFarley · 11-12-2008, 11:42 AM

Explaining the some/any rule is beyond me because of the exceptions.

kingwilly · 11-12-2008, 11:51 AM

Multiple-choice Test

benbaaa · 11-12-2008, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CharleyFarley

Explaining the some/any rule is beyond me because of the exceptions.

It was for me too until I read The English Verb by Michael Lewis. Recommended for TEFL-heads.

Mid · 11-12-2008, 02:28 PM

3 + 3 =

a: 6

b: 8

c: 9

Gallowspole · 11-12-2008, 02:31 PM

d) or all of the above

dirtydog · 11-12-2008, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CharleyFarley

Explaining the some/any rule

I didn't even know there was one

6=A
9=B
13=A
Well thats how it feels comfortable to me, although I really couldn't see much difference if they were all interchanged apart from the coffee one.

Thetyim · 11-12-2008, 03:22 PM

Depends if you are talking about a cup of coffee or a jar of coffee

Gallowspole · 11-12-2008, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thetyim

Depends if you are talking about a cup of coffee or a jar of coffee

I believe 'some' is used in positive sentences, unless the clause is limiting and 'any' in negative sentences and questions, unless the answer is expected to be in the positive.

Do you have any animal porn? (to an Englishman) Ans.Sorry, I don't have any.
Do you have some animal porn? (to a Welshman or Kiwi)Ans. Yes, I have some excellent stuff.

or

Well, I had but my mum found most of it under my bed so now I have hardly any left.

dirtydog · 11-12-2008, 03:35 PM

^Thats true, sitting here with a cup of coffee decided my grammar

Texpat · 11-12-2008, 05:01 PM

I can see how the grades might improve if there were only one option to test questions.

1. How many baht are in 100 baht?
A. one hundred

alternatively ...

1. How many baht are in 100 baht?
A. one hundred
B. one hundred
C. one hundred
D. one hundred

Happy to see Thai education leaders are looking for ways to improve test scores.

mikehunt · 11-12-2008, 07:03 PM

In 2005, I taught mathematics to a "Matayom 1" (Year 7) class for about a year. During that period, I issued two major tests to the students. Both tests were NOT multiple choice. All "working" had to be shown. When both of these tests were handed back to the students, I made time (1 hour in class & anytime, if I was available, after class) to go through the test with the students & help them to understand their errors.
The students had never done this type of test before.

Prior to the first test, I advised the students about how I would mark the test. I told them that even though their final answer may be incorrect, they may gain marks (points) for showing correct working. I then gave them some "trial" tests, which did not contribute to their overall mark, just to get them familiar with things.

Strangely, many Thai teachers tried to dissuade me from conducting such a test, the main reason cited was, "It will take a long time to mark."
I agreed with this comment & retorted with, "Yes but the students stand a better chance of learning." To me, they were lazy & did not consider the student's education...just attend school & get paid.
Out of fifty or more Thai teachers, only one agreed with me but would not let the other Thais know that he agreed.

Rural Surin · 11-12-2008, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikehunt

In 2005, I taught mathematics to a "Matayom 1" (Year 7) class for about a year. During that period, I issued two major tests to the students. Both tests were NOT multiple choice. All "working" had to be shown. When both of these tests were handed back to the students, I made time (1 hour in class & anytime, if I was available, after class) to go through the test with the students & help them to understand their errors.
The students had never done this type of test before.

Prior to the first test, I advised the students about how I would mark the test. I told them that even though their final answer may be incorrect, they may gain marks (points) for showing correct working. I then gave them some "trial" tests, which did not contribute to their overall mark, just to get them familiar with things.

Strangely, many Thai teachers tried to dissuade me from conducting such a test, the main reason cited was, "It will take a long time to mark."
I agreed with this comment & retorted with, "Yes but the students stand a better chance of learning." To me, they were lazy & did not consider the student's education...just attend school & get paid.
Out of fifty or more Thai teachers, only one agreed with me but would not let the other Thais know that he agreed.

Unfortunately, this is a instilled and common character trait of the Thai educational system. They just pretend to give a rat's arse, but don't really have the ability to recognize quality in lieu of quanity.

mikehunt · 11-12-2008, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rural Surin

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikehunt

In 2005, I taught mathematics to a "Matayom 1" (Year 7) class for about a year. During that period, I issued two major tests to the students. Both tests were NOT multiple choice. All "working" had to be shown. When both of these tests were handed back to the students, I made time (1 hour in class & anytime, if I was available, after class) to go through the test with the students & help them to understand their errors.
The students had never done this type of test before.

Prior to the first test, I advised the students about how I would mark the test. I told them that even though their final answer may be incorrect, they may gain marks (points) for showing correct working. I then gave them some "trial" tests, which did not contribute to their overall mark, just to get them familiar with things.

Strangely, many Thai teachers tried to dissuade me from conducting such a test, the main reason cited was, "It will take a long time to mark."
I agreed with this comment & retorted with, "Yes but the students stand a better chance of learning." To me, they were lazy & did not consider the student's education...just attend school & get paid.
Out of fifty or more Thai teachers, only one agreed with me but would not let the other Thais know that he agreed.

Unfortunately, this is a instilled and common character trait of the Thai educational system. They just pretend to give a rat's arse, but don't really have the ability to recognize quality in lieu of quanity.

Very happy to see that you spelt "arse" correctly

BTW, I don't have a degree in education. Worse still, I don't have a degree!
I guess the amount of "face lost" could be immense if a non-qualified person actually did make a difference to the amount a student learns, particularly if the person who purportedly causes the "loss of face" is not "qualified".
TIT.

Rural Surin · 11-12-2008, 10:44 PM

Unfortunately Mike, it's an embarrassing reflection on the system that trained Thai teachers aren't allowed to develop personal techniques, nor are they encouraged to challenge or critique redundant and futile homogeny. How can one expect students to chase {in theory} critical thought and to examine varitable ideas, if the instructor does not ptomote {or have a clue} within. I know quite a number of teachers, from primary teachers to professors. All, good likable folks. Yet, they just don't get it.

Norton · 11-12-2008, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by benbaaa

Dumb fucks

A brand I'm unfamiliar with but could well be the right answer.

11-12-2008, 09:42 AM	#1 (permalink)
Mid Nautical Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 13,315	Thailand : Multiple-choice questions to blame for low grades Multiple-choice questions to blame for low grades December 11, 2008 A leading mathematician yesterday said Thai children's low academic standards could be blamed on multiple-choice questions used in examinations. Prof Narong Punnim was speaking a day after the Institute for the Promotion of Teaching Science and Technology (IPST) announced that an international assessment showed that Thai students were not up to par in mathematics and science. IPST added that the performance had clearly dropped when compared with a previous assessment. "Multiple-choice questions have been an ongoing problem in Thailand's education system," Narong pointed out. "Such evaluation methods are destroying our children but most teachers are still unaware of it." He explained that multiple-choice questions allowed children to pick any answer and still stand a chance at passing the exam. Narong, a lecturer at Srinakharinwirot University, chaired the mathematics panel at the Promotion of Academic Olympiads and Development of Science Education Foundation under late Princess HRH Galyani Vadhana's patronage. The professor also criticised the procedure of repeatedly holding make-up exams until students pass. "As far as I know, Chitralada School is the only school that requires its students to repeat a course if they fail the exam," he said. He said he also disagreed with the methods used by teachers these days. "The teachers are too preoccupied with getting their students through entrance exams, instead of concentrating on giving them knowledge," Narong complained. nationmultimedia.com __________________ "Keeping quiet while monks and other peaceful protesters are murdered and jailed is not evidence of constructive engagement." - Arvind Ganesan, Human Rights Watch. "I think...I think it's in my basement. Let me go upstairs and check" - M.C. Escher

11-12-2008, 07:03 PM	#16 (permalink)
mikehunt Nonthaburi Last Online: 29-06-2009 02:46 AM Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Near Pattaya Posts: 455	In 2005, I taught mathematics to a "Matayom 1" (Year 7) class for about a year. During that period, I issued two major tests to the students. Both tests were NOT multiple choice. All "working" had to be shown. When both of these tests were handed back to the students, I made time (1 hour in class & anytime, if I was available, after class) to go through the test with the students & help them to understand their errors. The students had never done this type of test before. Prior to the first test, I advised the students about how I would mark the test. I told them that even though their final answer may be incorrect, they may gain marks (points) for showing correct working. I then gave them some "trial" tests, which did not contribute to their overall mark, just to get them familiar with things. Strangely, many Thai teachers tried to dissuade me from conducting such a test, the main reason cited was, "It will take a long time to mark." I agreed with this comment & retorted with, "Yes but the students stand a better chance of learning." To me, they were lazy & did not consider the student's education...just attend school & get paid. Out of fifty or more Thai teachers, only one agreed with me but would not let the other Thais know that he agreed. __________________ Oh for fucks sake! Get a life & stop trying to fuck mine up!

11-12-2008, 10:44 PM	#19 (permalink)
Rural Surin rough around the edges Last Online: 17-11-2009 10:28 PM Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Portland, OR & Kwao Noi, Surin Posts: 12,843	Unfortunately Mike, it's an embarrassing reflection on the system that trained Thai teachers aren't allowed to develop personal techniques, nor are they encouraged to challenge or critique redundant and futile homogeny. How can one expect students to chase {in theory} critical thought and to examine varitable ideas, if the instructor does not ptomote {or have a clue} within. I know quite a number of teachers, from primary teachers to professors. All, good likable folks. Yet, they just don't get it. __________________ WESTERN CIVILISATION....???

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11-12-2008, 11:00 AM	#5 (permalink)
benbaaa Whopping Member Last Online: 18-11-2009 08:04 PM Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Chiang Mai Posts: 3,728	Two more.

11-12-2008, 11:42 AM	#6 (permalink)
CharleyFarley Tiger Bay Last Online: Today 03:43 PM Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: aberthin Posts: 1,510	Explaining the some/any rule is beyond me because of the exceptions.

11-12-2008, 11:51 AM	#7 (permalink)
kingwilly Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 33,728	Multiple-choice Test

11-12-2008, 02:28 PM	#9 (permalink)
Mid Nautical Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 13,315	3 + 3 = a: 6 b: 8 c: 9

11-12-2008, 02:31 PM	#10 (permalink)
Gallowspole I'm deep under the covers Last Online: Today 04:51 PM Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 1,888	d) or all of the above

11-12-2008, 03:22 PM	#12 (permalink)
Thetyim ssshhhhh Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Mousehole Posts: 14,631	Depends if you are talking about a cup of coffee or a jar of coffee

11-12-2008, 03:35 PM	#14 (permalink)
dirtydog The Dog Last Online: Today 08:46 PM Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Pattaya Jomtien Posts: 42,364	^Thats true, sitting here with a cup of coffee decided my grammar

11-12-2008, 05:01 PM	#15 (permalink)
Texpat ฝรั่งพูดมาก Last Online: 27-10-2009 11:55 PM Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Nong Khai Posts: 12,491	I can see how the grades might improve if there were only one option to test questions. 1. How many baht are in 100 baht? A. one hundred alternatively ... 1. How many baht are in 100 baht? A. one hundred B. one hundred C. one hundred D. one hundred Happy to see Thai education leaders are looking for ways to improve test scores.

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