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Sir Burr

If you can't be "failed", what's the incentive to learn?

DrAndy

bloody hell, what an approach to life SB!!

the incentive to learn is normally part of our make-up, part of our life

we learn new things all the time, the main thing is to be interested in what we are learning. That is where a good teacher comes in.

if you really think that "passing" or "failing" is important, then you are merely part of the bourgeois scheme of things. It is like those people who do some little course (3 day Thai cooking, for instance), and get a diploma as part of the thing at the end. Weird!

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keep 'em coming

Sir Burr

What a load of cobblers!
When I was at school, two subjects I loved were Biology and Economics. I passed because I was interested.
Two subjects I hated were Maths and Chemistry. I passed because I was afraid of what my parents and peers would think if I failed. I had to work very hard.

It was impressed upon me by my teachers and parents that the quality of job I would get upon leaving school would be determined by what qualifications I would earn.

If I knew that no matter the effort I put in, I would still pass, why would I bother to work hard? I would have the important thing to get a job; the pass certificate.

I've heard too many stories in Thailand, especially at fee paying schools where nobody fails.
Why should the hard worker spend hours studying when he knows that the guy who goofs off all the time is going to get the same mark?

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Phuket - Veni Vidi Veni

phuketbound

^That's a good approach Bexar Stud. I like your thinking there.

That's a good point. There are many studies that show that failing a child is not the best thing to do, because they will fall behind socially, and this could effect the child even more than we think. I was taught this in school. In the west, they can fail children, but it is very rare. They need to get the parent's approval, and have evidence that the child should be failed. I think there are cases where the parents don't want their children looking bad, or being left behind when all their peers are going ahead. I see both sides, but I also think it is unfair for a child to be put in this situation. That is one reason why you see so many different levels in the same grade.

Gabriel I'm presently teaching English in a public school in Korea. I am hoping to go to Thailand in the future, but I'm not going into a crap paying job, or poor quality school.

tropic of cancer

Well you shouldn't have to pass or fail every year anyway - when I was at school in the UK in the 70s/80s you just passed on to the next year, that was that. I barely recall having any exams till at least secondary school.

That said, parents should be told exactly how much or how little their kids have attained, not have the wool pulled over their eyes with a false mark.

The different levels thing is a nightmare for a teacher. You can't micro-plan several lessons in one - it doesn't work and there's not enough time. So it's go too fast for some, too slow for others ...

We're actually streaming across a combined P5 and 6 next year to attempt to address this problem.

phuketbound

Why shouldn't you pass or fail? Don't get me started on exams.
How are they testing the students in order to screen them?

Gabriel

Why would I think that? So where do you work Ms Phuket?

I posted the relevent quote regarding lack of control in class. You may have missed it in your fervent wish to refute my argument.

tropic of cancer

People going on about my inability to control a classroom are missing the point and have almost certainly never taught EFL to children, most particularly in Thailand.

As Mike Hunt said, it's the nature of the beast. Another language has little or no immediate relevance to a child - indeed, they're still mastering their own. Taught entirely in a foreign tongue, it's even less arresting. It's enormously hard to get and keep ones students' attention in this context and an awful lot of the thinking and planning one does is focused on this problem, i.e. how to make it interesting, how to make it fun. Sometimes you succeed, sometimes you fail, but the process (of engaging them) is a kind of stealthy cajoling - you have to tolerate a certain amount of misbehavoir and try to advance primary goal as best you can. The dynamic of the classroom is completely different to their lessons with Thai teachers; there is enormous initial resistance to every task that is not demonstrably simple - thinking for oneself is alien to them

It's soul-destroying sometimes, when you think they've retained a target language and then find out it's slipped through their brains like sand in an egg-timer, but yesterday I was told that one of my students (the 7th out of 8 in my P3) took a test at another (supposedly 'better') school and scored 86 (the average being mid-60s). This pleased my greatly; I feel I've made real breakthrough with this class and carried them with me. Other classes I've just largely failed to inspire. Such is the life of a 'tefler'.

Thank Phuketbound btw, for your support against the detractors (as we know, they know not of what they speak).

Gabriel

I have not missed the point and I have taught kids in Thailand.

Why don't you address the issue here and try to improve your teaching?

tropic of cancer

Fair play, I'd like to improve and you're clearly the man to help, with your experience*, teaching qualifications*, masterful classroom management etc.

Given the fact that Thailand isn't able right now to (as you put it) 'leave it to the professionals', perhaps you'd like to appraise we lower life forms as to some of your better techniques. Unfortunately I can't afford to pay you right now for my online tutorial but think how much my kids could benefit from my 'upped game'!

Or is it the case that you don't actually give a shit about the education of Thai children and really just want to pile into the easy target of 'teflers'?

I won't be holding my breath.


(*please note: verification will be required)

Gabriel

I'm not interested in helping you. My work is with my kids. If you wish to improve you should go back to university and get properly qualified.

tropic of cancer

And in the meantime my job will be taken by...who exactly?

If you're teaching at the moment, why the use of the present perfect in your last but one post?

Sir Burr

What's the point in spending years at school to get qualified, then teach in Thailand for shit money?
I would of thought that with proper qualifications, you would go where the money is.

Bexar County Stud

Fair question. I would ask what's the point of working somewhere just to make money? I don't understand folks who spend years in hellhole like Saudi just so they can pile up some cash. Not for me, life is too short.

Chasing money is not the only consideration and tradeoff involved. For myself, I want flexibility and a decent work/life balance. Teaching is not my only interest/pursuit and oar in the water. A higher paying job is going to be more demanding and I won't have time to pursue other things that I find fufilling.

All kinda ways to live life, not just a robotic "go where the money is" approach.

Boon Mee

They don't want to work on Oil Rigs?

kingwilly

one can get ok money in thailand with a teaching degree.

I wouldnt say teachers can get great money anywhere in the world, ok yes, great no.

Gabriel

How much do you think teachers get in your country Burr?

Sir Burr

I have no idea, but, they do get health and a good pension.
Surely, if you were going for money, you'd go to Japan, Germany, or, where-ever, but, not Thailand unless you were in a top-flight international school.

Gabriel

The wages may be higher in developed countries like Japan and Germany but the cost of living is far higher.

A teacher in the US may make 40k or 50k if they are doing well. That equates to between 115k and 145k Baht per month. A decent international job in Thailand will have you coming in at 100k with insurance, housing allowance and other perks. Of course the figure can be far higher for those in the top flight school.

Where would you rather work Burr?

CSFFan

Things are changing radically in Thai schools starting next year. For the mathayom classes the English contact hours have been reduced from 4 hours a week to only 3 hours a week by the MOE.

At my school, this means the farang teachers will teach one hour (before it was two) and the Thai teacher will teach two hours.

For us, instead of needing 6 teachers the school will only need three. You guys can figure out the economics of the situation.