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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by can123 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Koojo
    The art of handwritting is going to disappear if we're not careful.
    You were probably told that you should not start a sentence with "but". "However" used to be treated similarly but its use at the start is common these days.

    I'll excuse the spelling mistake.
    Pretentious twat.
    English teacher are you?

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koojo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by can123 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Koojo
    The art of handwritting is going to disappear if we're not careful.
    You were probably told that you should not start a sentence with "but". "However" used to be treated similarly but its use at the start is common these days.

    I'll excuse the spelling mistake.
    Pretentious twat.
    English teacher are you?
    Yes, a qualified and experienced teacher. Is that a crime ? If I was an electrician would you reject my advice on air conditioning equipment ?
    Why can't I make new posts?

  3. #28
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    ^You might want to brush up on your etymologies before you go a-mavening and harassing people about "got" and "gotten." (By the way, how do you feel about "begat"?) Marmite has steered you in the right direction.

    I have heard Midwestern United Statesians use "boughten" as the past participle of "buy," and it was somewhat jarring (not cool). They were not wearing baseball caps.
    “You can lead a horticulture but you can’t make her think.” Dorothy Parker

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by robuzo
    I have heard Midwestern United Statesians use "boughten" as the past participle of "buy," and it was somewhat jarring (not cool). They were not wearing baseball caps.
    I have heard Midwestern United Kingdomians use "brought" instead of bought and that always makes me wonder if they nicked the item in question.
    I think they were wearing baseball caps.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koojo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by can123 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Koojo
    The art of handwritting is going to disappear if we're not careful.
    You were probably told that you should not start a sentence with "but". "However" used to be treated similarly but its use at the start is common these days.

    I'll excuse the spelling mistake.
    Pretentious twat.
    English teacher are you?
    Need one, do you?
    No, he's a pedantic twat; as am I.

    Starting a sentence with "but" is a kind of anapodoton - a tail without a dog.
    anapodoton

    It's wrong (morally), because "but" is a conjunction - to join two thoughts.
    The whole raison d'etre of a sentence is that it is supposed to be a complete thought; a clause is an addendum to a complete thought: an afterthought, in other words.

    (No I'm not an English teacher, but I did used to work in the newspapers correcting the English of journalists - to no avail... because I'm dyslexic - tee hee!)

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainNemo
    It's wrong (morally), because "but" is a conjunction - to join two thoughts. The whole raison d'etre of a sentence is that it is supposed to be a complete thought; a clause is an addendum to a complete thought: an afterthought, in other words.
    But, people still use it at the start of a sentence...

  7. #32
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    ^ Yes but no but


  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by robuzo
    ^You might want to brush up on your etymologies before you go a-mavening and harassing people about "got" and "gotten."
    I was going to same the same, then realized it was Can321, so couldn't be bothered...

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainNemo
    It's wrong (morally), because "but" is a conjunction - to join two thoughts.
    You are on a slippery slope unless your linguistics is very strong. I hear lots of people using this example, wrongly; basically, you need to have an understanding of genre, style and grammar to explain this area. Unfortunately, many folks prescriptively detail 'grammar rules' alone, which offers zero power of explication of human beings and how they communicate with one another ('correctly, as native speakers').

    With regard to your use of 'anapodoton', which is an awful term..., your link clearly states a 'subordinate clause', so why are you talking about 'but' which is a coordinating conjunction? Ignoring that significant point, you still use the word incorrectly - no wonder the journalists didn't listen to you... [Journalists often mix genres and try to write with 'poetic' style, so are an interesting area for analysis].

    I recently had a group of lecturers, all with PhDs (Thais...)..., trying to suggest that sentences should not start with compound conjunctions, and if students do so then they must lose marks in the final exam. I asked them: 1) to please quote the source of that 'grammar rule'; 2) why did the reading comprehension part of the exam (from the NY Post) have 5 examples of starting sentences with compound sentences in it if it was wrong to do so; 3) to check their favourite academic journal and see how many sentences per article start with compound conjunctions (the average is 14 per academic article). They didn't know what to say, but agreed with me that the students should NOT be marked down for using compound conjunctions to start sentences...
    Cycling should be banned!!!

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bettyboo
    They didn't know what to say, but agreed with me that the students should NOT be marked down for using compound conjunctions to start sentences...
    I can accept that. Put simply, they were just as ignorant as you.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainNemo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Koojo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by can123 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Koojo
    The art of handwritting is going to disappear if we're not careful.
    You were probably told that you should not start a sentence with "but". "However" used to be treated similarly but its use at the start is common these days.

    I'll excuse the spelling mistake.
    Pretentious twat.
    English teacher are you?
    Need one, do you?
    No, he's a pedantic twat; as am I.

    Starting a sentence with "but" is a kind of anapodoton - a tail without a dog.
    anapodoton

    It's wrong (morally), because "but" is a conjunction - to join two thoughts.
    The whole raison d'etre of a sentence is that it is supposed to be a complete thought; a clause is an addendum to a complete thought: an afterthought, in other words.

    (No I'm not an English teacher, but I did used to work in the newspapers correcting the English of journalists - to no avail... because I'm dyslexic - tee hee!)
    Sorry, what was that? I fell asleep.
    “If we stop testing right now we’d have very few cases, if any.” Donald J Trump.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by can123
    I can accept that. Put simply, they were just as ignorant as you.
    Well, Can; the top linguists in the world would fully support what I say (in fact, I'm not being original, I'm just going along with their research and knowledge). You, on the other hand, make bold claims which are utter bollocks; any time researching (your own) or reading other people's research would make you aware of that fact.. carry on...

    I'm presenting at 3 international conferences over the next 6 months (presenting research on grammar and academic writing amongst other boring subjects...), how about you - shagging sheep?

  12. #37
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    People quoting grammar rules without any understanding of language is one of my pet hates, it damages the education of millions of students every day...

    Anyways, I'm gonna fuk off to another thread; trading 'ideas' with buffoons like Can321 is hardly pushing the boundaries of knowledge or intellectual debate...

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bettyboo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by can123
    I can accept that. Put simply, they were just as ignorant as you.
    Well, Can; the top linguists in the world would fully support what I say (in fact, I'm not being original, I'm just going along with their research and knowledge). You, on the other hand, make bold claims which are utter bollocks; any time researching (your own) or reading other people's research would make you aware of that fact.. carry on...

    I'm presenting at 3 international conferences over the next 6 months (presenting research on grammar and academic writing amongst other boring subjects...), how about you - shagging sheep?

    I hope that your knowledge of linguistics is greater than your knowledge of punctuation. International conferences ? My arse ! Stick to writing bullshit on here.

  14. #39
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    ^ pm me your address then I'll send you some published academic articles (on grammar); each time I publish one they send me about 10 copies (boring as shite, I use them as door stops!). I'll even pay the P&P, it'll be worth it to shut you the fuk up (by land, so you'll have about 2 months to build up the enthusiasm to read them)...

    [It's no big deal, I know of at least 2 other posters on here who publish/present regularly. I use it as an opportunity for the university to pay for my holiday (also, you meet people who have researched and know what they are talking about; they don't quote prescriptive rules...)]
    Last edited by Bettyboo; 26-06-2012 at 08:49 PM.

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by can123 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Koojo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by can123 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Koojo
    The art of handwritting is going to disappear if we're not careful.
    You were probably told that you should not start a sentence with "but". "However" used to be treated similarly but its use at the start is common these days.

    I'll excuse the spelling mistake.
    Pretentious twat.
    English teacher are you?
    Yes, a qualified and experienced teacher. Is that a crime ? If I was an electrician would you reject my advice on air conditioning equipment ?
    Not if I'd asked for it.
    Last edited by Cujo; 26-06-2012 at 08:59 PM.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koojo
    The art of handwritting is going to disappear if we're not careful.
    So is the art of proper spelling. Handwriting.

    Sorry I don't really care about "got", or minor spelling errors but I thought another bit of pedantic pomposity would fit the thread nicely since it started that way with Neo and was brought to the peaks of pompous pedantry with the distinctly uncool can123 who apparently is not a grammar snob but can only talk to people with a "formal education".

    He probably wears cricket flannels when he's not playing cricket.

    Neo must have studied with my 4th Grade elocution teacher "How now Brown Cow." An elocution teacher was a serious affectation and waste of time and resources for a cheap Catholic parochial school in the depraved northern suburbs of Melbourne. She thought "got" and "nice" were terribly "common" and made us pronounce our voooooowels in an extraordinarily elongated manner.

    Gotta thank her. Got me where I am today. Got me out of the gutter. Gotta love'er. Got a light, mate. Gotta get out of this place.

  17. #42
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    you guys are gettin gat gotten my glass eye to cry

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by can123
    Yes, a qualified and experienced teacher. Is that a crime ? If I was an electrician would you reject my advice on air conditioning equipment ?
    Probably. Saying "cool" while wearing a baseball cap is not quite as dangerous as sticking your tongue in a power socket.

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomta
    Saying "cool" while wearing a baseball cap is not quite as dangerous as sticking your tongue in a power socket.
    That's what happened to my elocution teacher.

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascotkiwi
    On the other hand, Aussies love to whack a "but" on the end of sentences. For example, "Although the Blues got beaten, they played a really good game but!"
    Another interesting Aussie oddity is "yeah-no". The glamorous but humble star recruit is told by the interviewer: "You played a really great game tonight." "Yeah-no, it was a great team effort and we got the four points".

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bettyboo
    trading 'ideas' with buffoons like Can321 is hardly pushing the boundaries of knowledge or intellectual debate...
    I was trying to remember if Can had ever got anything correct in one of his 'arguements' on TD, and came to a conclusive 'no'.

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmite the Dog View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bettyboo
    trading 'ideas' with buffoons like Can321 is hardly pushing the boundaries of knowledge or intellectual debate...
    I was trying to remember if Can had ever got anything correct in one of his 'arguements' on TD, and came to a conclusive 'no'.
    Please do not strain your brain on my account. It's enough for you and Betty to continue your mutual appreciation society. A pair well matched, like Bill and Ben, the Flowerpot Men.

  23. #48
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    & for our American friends who may not be aware of Bill & Ben:



    Not quite as good as Bagpuss, but pretty good; 999 can understand every word they say.

    (In this story, Can321 would be Weed...)

  24. #49
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    Too difficult for most Yanks, I would have thought. Bill and Ben owe their language skills to Bettyboo. They have read all his academic writings.
    Last edited by can123; 26-06-2012 at 10:24 PM.

  25. #50
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    ^ you're not making many (any?) friends, Can321! I have several American friends, a black friend, 2 Australian friends and a lesbian friend. I'm thinking about getting a Canadian and a Tasmanian friend, but am worried this might be going to far.

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