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  1. #926
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bettyboo View Post
    ^ well, some on this thread disagree.

    It all seems very obvious, as you indicate, but there's so much denial and misinformation...

    Plus, it's a very similar situation in the Uk and France and beyond. Who's challenging that? The UK taxpayers seemed to have forgotten what went on over the last couple of years and 'accepted' their lot...
    It'll take some time for the inertia to be overcome, it's a big beast that's rising. But it has started. You see it all over. The current system is demolishing the buffer, the middle class, that has shielded the corporate takeover over the world.

    Globalisation has exposed the weakness of the capitalist system as it has been practised since corporations started rising. The religion of maximising profits by all means was always an unsustainable concept. A tipping point was been reached IMHO, in 2008. I said then the paradigm will change, but it will take many years.

    It's been a race to the top for a very few, and a race to the bottom for the rest. That is eminently unsustainable and will result in bloodshed on a massive scale if some logic doesn't somehow invade the shriveled minds of the few who have gathered the power.

    The many have to suffer some more before things will change, but the die is cast.


    There are many who shrug their shoulders and believe things will continue as before, pointing to a history of divide and conquer. They are fools, part of the shriveled minds elite, or those still hanging on to the remnants of what used to be the middle class. They have no inkling of the feelings at the bottom. Sure, the feelings have always been there, and nothing happened. But there are two crucial differences between now and in the past. The middle class buffer is disappearing, and communication is rendering the divide and conquer strategy useless.
    Last edited by FlyFree; 31-10-2011 at 08:17 AM.

  2. #927
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlyFree View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bettyboo View Post
    ^ well, some on this thread disagree.

    It all seems very obvious, as you indicate, but there's so much denial and misinformation...

    Plus, it's a very similar situation in the Uk and France and beyond. Who's challenging that? The UK taxpayers seemed to have forgotten what went on over the last couple of years and 'accepted' their lot...
    It'll take some time for the inertia to be overcome, it's a big beast that's rising. But it has started. You see it all over. The current system is demolishing the buffer, the middle class, that has shielded the corporate takeover over the world.

    Globalisation has exposed the weakness of the capitalist system as it has been practised since corporations started rising. The religion of maximising profits by all means was always an unsustainable concept. A tipping point was been reached IMHO, in 2008. I said then the paradigm will change, but it will take many years.

    It's been a race to the top for a very few, and a race to the bottom for the rest. That is eminently unsustainable and will result in bloodshed on a massive scale if some logic doesn't somehow invade the shriveled minds of the few who have gathered the power.

    The many have to suffer some more before things will change, but the die is cast.


    There are many who shrug their shoulders and believe things will continue as before, pointing to a history of divide and conquer. They are fools, part of the shriveled minds elite, or those still hanging on to the remnants of what used to be the middle class. They have no inkling of the feelings at the bottom. Sure, the feelings have always been there, and nothing happened. But there are two crucial differences between now and in the past. The middle class buffer is disappearing, and communication is rendering the divide and conquer strategy useless.
    Excellent post here FF. Something very big is just starting to awaken. BB I agree with your post as well mate.

  3. #928
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlyFree View Post
    Globalisation has exposed the weakness of the capitalist system as it has been practised since corporations started rising. The religion of maximising profits by all means was always an unsustainable concept.
    Good points FF and in rebuttal (while not explicitly advocating the entire premise) I humbly submit a leaflet that's being handed out at the protests at the Chicago board of Trade:

    Traders respond to occupiers

    We are Wall Street. It’s our job to make mone. Whether it’s a commodity, stock, bond, or some hypothetical piece of fake paper, it doesn’t matter. We would trade baseball cards if it were profitable. I didn’t hear America complaining when the market was roaring to 14,000 and everyone’s 401k doubled every 3 years. Just like gambling, its not a problem until you lose. I’ve never heard of anyone going to Gamblers Anonymous because they won too much in Vegas.

    Well now the market crapped out, & even though it has come back somewhat, the government and the average Joes are still looking for a scapegoat. God knows there has to be one for everything. Well, here we are.


    Go ahead and continue to take us down, but you’re only going to hurt yourselves. What’s going to happen when we can’t find jobs on the Street anymore? Guess what: We’re going to take yours. We get up at 5am & work until 10pm or later. We’re used to not getting up to pee when we have a position. We don’t take an hour or more for a lunch break. We don’t demand a union. We don’t retire at 50 with a pension. We eat what we kill, and when the only thing left to eat is on your dinner plates, we’ll eat that.


    For years teachers and other unionized labor have had us fooled. We were too busy working to notice. Do you really think that we are incapable of teaching 3rd graders and doing landscaping? We’re going to take your cushy jobs with tenure and 4 months off a year and whine just like you that we are so-o-o-o underpaid for building the youth of America. Say goodbye to your overtime, and double time and a half. I’ll be hitting grounders to the high school baseball team for $5k extra a summer, thank you very much.


    So now that we’re going to be making $85k a year without upside, Joe Mainstreet is going to have his revenge, right? Wrong! Guess what: we’re going to stop buying the new 80k car, we aren’t going to leave the 35 percent tip at our business dinners anymore. No more free rides on our backs. We’re going to landscape our own back yards, wash our cars with a garden hose in our driveways. Our money was your money. You spent it. When our money dries up, so does yours.


    The difference is, you lived off of it, we rejoiced in it. The Obama administration and the Democratic National Committee might get their way and knock us off the top of the pyramid, but it’s really going to hurt like hell for them when our fat a**es land directly on the middle class of America and knock them to the bottom.


    We aren’t dinosaurs. We are smarter and more vicious than that, and we are going to survive. The question is, now that Obama & his administration are making Joe Mainstreet our food supply…will he? and will they?”


    It might be helpful to compare and contrast this leaflet with one found at Occupy Phoenix: “When Should You Shoot a Cop?”

    Source



  4. #929
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boon Mee View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by FlyFree View Post
    Globalisation has exposed the weakness of the capitalist system as it has been practised since corporations started rising. The religion of maximising profits by all means was always an unsustainable concept.
    Good points FF and in rebuttal (while not explicitly advocating the entire premise) I humbly submit a leaflet that's being handed out at the protests at the Chicago board of Trade:

    Traders respond to occupiers
    We are Wall Street. Yadda. Yadda. Yadda.

    BM, sorry my mate but I don't read shit that you copy and paste. Give me your own reasoned response or naught.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boon Mee
    Go ahead and continue to take us down, but you’re only going to hurt yourselves. What’s going to happen when we can’t find jobs on the Street anymore? Guess what: We’re going to take yours. We get up at 5am & work until 10pm or later. We’re used to not getting up to pee when we have a position. We don’t take an hour or more for a lunch break. We don’t demand a union. We don’t retire at 50 with a pension. We eat what we kill, and when the only thing left to eat is on your dinner plates, we’ll eat that.
    What a joke. Only lets me know that they are seriously thinking about the fact they WILL be brought down. Already thinking about mowing lawns and teaching schools.
    HAHAHAHA
    Last edited by misskit; 31-10-2011 at 09:14 AM.

  6. #931
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlyFree View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Boon Mee View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by FlyFree View Post
    Globalisation has exposed the weakness of the capitalist system as it has been practised since corporations started rising. The religion of maximising profits by all means was always an unsustainable concept.
    Good points FF and in rebuttal (while not explicitly advocating the entire premise) I humbly submit a leaflet that's being handed out at the protests at the Chicago board of Trade:

    Traders respond to occupiers
    We are Wall Street. Yadda. Yadda. Yadda.

    BM, sorry my mate but I don't read shit that you copy and paste. Give me your own reasoned response or naught.

  7. #932
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    Quote Originally Posted by misskit View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Boon Mee
    Go ahead and continue to take us down, but you’re only going to hurt yourselves. What’s going to happen when we can’t find jobs on the Street anymore? Guess what: We’re going to take yours. We get up at 5am & work until 10pm or later. We’re used to not getting up to pee when we have a position. We don’t take an hour or more for a lunch break. We don’t demand a union. We don’t retire at 50 with a pension. We eat what we kill, and when the only thing left to eat is on your dinner plates, we’ll eat that.
    What a joke. Only let's me know that they are seriously thinking about the fact they WILL be brought down. Already thinking about mowing lawns and teaching schools.
    HAHAHAHA
    It's probably true, for a defined environment. Difficult to quickly explain what I mean. Given sufficient motivation, most people will be like that. If they weren't, the human race would have been wiped out tens of thousands of years ago.

    They don't even begin to understand the environmental difference and it's impact on motivation. You can see the same thing right here on TD. Judgement calls on people in whose environment they have never been, don't understand. They've been there in passing. like tourists taking pics. There's no understanding of the impacts on personality, motivation, desperation caused by being trapped in it. If any, it's superficial.

    If those guys get down there, they'll find the people down there will out-dog-eat-dog them by a mile. They have much more experience of surviving with no resources.

  8. #933
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlyFree
    If those guys get down there, they'll find the people down there will out-dog-eat-dog them by a mile. They have much more experience of surviving with no resources.
    Exactly. Most wall street brokers were born into money and most likely had mommy and daddy paying their way through a ivy league school. These guys have never worked a real job in their lives. Sweat and toil is something for the lower classes. They would rather make their money speculating on the backs of the working man not being one.

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    Capitalism as Boon Mee advocates would have sunk these traders some years ago if they hadn't been bailed out by the taxes the school teacher, the gardener and the waitress had provided for them.

    It is sad to see he has such a limited appreciation of life and his fellow man.
    A tray full of GOLD is not worth a moment in time.

  10. #935
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlyFree View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Boon Mee View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by FlyFree View Post
    Globalisation has exposed the weakness of the capitalist system as it has been practised since corporations started rising. The religion of maximising profits by all means was always an unsustainable concept.
    Good points FF and in rebuttal (while not explicitly advocating the entire premise) I humbly submit a leaflet that's being handed out at the protests at the Chicago board of Trade:

    Traders respond to occupiers
    We are Wall Street. Yadda. Yadda. Yadda.

    BM, sorry my mate but I don't read shit that you copy and paste. Give me your own reasoned response or naught.
    Well, let's put it all in perspective shall we? What are the goals of these COWS? Tear down the existing 'system' and replace it with everyone sitting around the campfire singing kumbaya? Prancing unicorns in the fields? It will be the same old, smae old for sure because - now pay attention OK? Socialism does not work. It might be falling on deaf ears here but sooner or later, yall going to run out of other folks money. The Traders will continue to maximize their profits, the oil companies will continue to do the same. It's called Capitalism and there's nothing on G_D's little green earth that will be a 'better' system.

  11. #936
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    ^Boontard you know about as much about Socialism as you do about the wall street protesters which is nothing.

  12. #937
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsnub View Post
    ^Boontard you know about as much about Socialism as you do about the wall street protesters which is nothing.
    But we do know you are an empty-headed leftist loon with no idea of what your advocating though don't we snubbie. Give us a few renditions of Kumbaya while your sitting there in Mom's Basement, will ya!

  13. #938
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boon Mee View Post
    Well, let's put it all in perspective shall we? What are the goals of these COWS? Tear down the existing 'system' and replace it with everyone sitting around the campfire singing kumbaya? Prancing unicorns in the fields? It will be the same old, smae old for sure because - now pay attention OK? Socialism does not work. It might be falling on deaf ears here but sooner or later, yall going to run out of other folks money. The Traders will continue to maximize their profits, the oil companies will continue to do the same. It's called Capitalism and there's nothing on G_D's little green earth that will be a 'better' system.
    That's corporate capitalism as it evolved to suit corporations, not capitalism per se.

    Few are talking about socialism. Helping your neighbour when he's suffering is not socialism, it's human.

    When there is a major shift in world affairs, the nimble of mind prosper, the dinosaurs die out. A major shift is starting, and saying 'let them eat cake' will have predictable results for you.

    You remind me a lot of Socal. You tend to see and judge the future from only the perspective of today and yesterday. You don't factor in changes in progress, be they social, technological or moral.

    That is the profile of someone who can be successful today, but will inevitably fall by the wayside as time passes.


    Most by a very large margin are not calling for socialism. They're calling for reform of the whole stinking, rotting system. And at the core of this system, it's mother, are corporations. That's where capitalism took a very bad turn.

    Stop equating corporatism with capitalism. It's is done either on purpose in a vain attempt at maintaining the status quo, or more often, out of pure ignorance.

    Nobody can say at this stage what will evolve. It's a process that has just started in earnest a few years ago. It will be negotiated. But it won't be socialism.


    There's two choices in this evolving situation. Play the old divide and rule game that you see in the mainstream media and get swallowed up by events or adapt and come out in front. The former won't work anymore.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hampsha View Post
    Peter Schiff is really stupid if he thinks that capitalism created child labor laws and weekends. That's total BS.
    No its not total BS but if you don't narrow it down and figure it out the way he has, then its understandable that you wouldn't think so.

    I have read all of his stuff and seen the proof. Its in his latest book. I didn't really get it either until I read up on it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FlyFree View Post
    Nobody can say at this stage what will evolve. It's a process that has just started in earnest a few years ago. It will be negotiated. But it won't be socialism.
    One thing that has remained a constant throughout time is folks like to own their own stuff and redistribution of wealth to bring everyone down to the same level would be ugly. It can't and won't happen. Someone mentioned earlier that being a Trader isn't 'honest' or 'real' work. Without a Futures or a Forex Market, we might as well be back in the stone age living as hunter/gatherers.

    Try a bit of Day Trading and see how difficult the job is...

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    [quote=FlyFree;1921618]
    Quote Originally Posted by Bettyboo View Post
    ^ w

    Globalisation has exposed the weakness of the capitalist system as it has been practised since corporations started rising. The religion of maximising profits by all means was always an unsustainable concept. A tipping point was been reached IMHO, in 2008. I said then the paradigm will change, but it will take many years..
    That is total bullshit.

    You cannot have capitalism without sound money. Therefore, the world has not had capitalism since 1922. Its a deep subject..

    It began with two different monetary conferences, two "committees of experts" that both met in Genoa, and changed the course of monetary history. The first committee gathered in October, 1445, and the second one began in April, 1922. The two committees gathered under similar circumstances, to respond to monetary disorder in the aftermath of a protracted war, yet they came to opposite conclusions.

    The first committee declared gold (physical plane)the new, sole monetary reserve, unleashing its 500-year reign as the governor of supply and demand that would act as the natural counter-balance to international trade for the next half a millennium. The second committee, under the guise of improving this system, destroyed it, laying the groundwork for the unchecked growth of global imbalance, perpetual malinvestment and the series of periodic monetary crises we have experienced for the last 90 years.
    Last edited by socal; 31-10-2011 at 10:17 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bsnub View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by FlyFree
    If those guys get down there, they'll find the people down there will out-dog-eat-dog them by a mile. They have much more experience of surviving with no resources.
    Exactly. Most wall street brokers were born into money and most likely had mommy and daddy paying their way through a ivy league school. These guys have never worked a real job in their lives. Sweat and toil is something for the lower classes. They would rather make their money speculating on the backs of the working man not being one.
    Again... all rhetoric based on the misconception that you think the current system is actually capitalism.

    And don't ever get the idea that this joke of a system is sustainable for more then 2 to 5 more years. Most of these brokers and paper pushers will be out of a job too. They are useless in a real capitalist system that exists on the physical plane. Not the virtual digital plane.

  18. #943
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boon Mee View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by FlyFree View Post
    Nobody can say at this stage what will evolve. It's a process that has just started in earnest a few years ago. It will be negotiated. But it won't be socialism.
    One thing that has remained a constant throughout time is folks like to own their own stuff and redistribution of wealth to bring everyone down to the same level would be ugly. It can't and won't happen. Someone mentioned earlier that being a Trader isn't 'honest' or 'real' work. Without a Futures or a Forex Market, we might as well be back in the stone age living as hunter/gatherers.

    Try a bit of Day Trading and see how difficult the job is...
    I was a smallish player on the market for a while as well. I agree. It's not real or honest work. It's being a leech, feeding on others' blood.

    Produce something. You don't have to go dig a hole. Start a real productive business that also benefits those around or below you. There is nothing wrong with capitalism, it produces motivation and good stuff. But shifting money around to make a profit is being a leech. You produce zero, your gains come from someone else's pocket, giving no value in return.

    That is a leech. Sorry.

    Money was invented to pass value.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FlyFree View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Boon Mee View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by FlyFree View Post
    Nobody can say at this stage what will evolve. It's a process that has just started in earnest a few years ago. It will be negotiated. But it won't be socialism.
    One thing that has remained a constant throughout time is folks like to own their own stuff and redistribution of wealth to bring everyone down to the same level would be ugly. It can't and won't happen. Someone mentioned earlier that being a Trader isn't 'honest' or 'real' work. Without a Futures or a Forex Market, we might as well be back in the stone age living as hunter/gatherers.

    Try a bit of Day Trading and see how difficult the job is...
    I was a smallish player on the market for a while as well. I agree. It's not real or honest work. It's being a leech, feeding on others' blood.

    Produce something. You don't have to go dig a hole. Start a real productive business that also benefits those around or below you. There is nothing wrong with capitalism, it produces motivation and good stuff. But shifting money around to make a profit is being a leech. You produce zero, your gains come from someone else's pocket, giving no value in return.

    That is a leech. Sorry.

    Money was invented to pass value.
    Ah yes, but, in order to raise capital for your business that 'produces' instead of leeching you need a Bank. And, you may need to raise enough capital to expand your business and employ more workers which requires you to sell shares of your company. We are never going to be w/out Wall St. and the service they provide.

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    [quote=FlyFree;1921728]
    Quote Originally Posted by Boon Mee View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by FlyFree View Post
    Nobody can say at this stage what will evolve. It's a process that has just started in earnest a few years ago. It will be negotiated. But it won't be socialism.
    One thing that has remained a constant throughout time is folks like to own their own stuff and redistribution of wealth to bring everyone down to the same level would be ugly. It can't and won't happen. Someone mentioned earlier that being a Trader isn't 'honest' or 'real' work. Without a Futures or a Forex Market, we might as well be back in the stone age living as hunter/gatherers.

    Try a bit of Day Trading and see how difficult the job is...
    Produce something. You don't have to go dig a hole. Start a real productive business that also benefits those around or below you. There is nothing wrong with capitalism, it produces motivation and good stuff.
    Thats right and that is the physical plane.
    But shifting money around to make a profit is being a leech. You produce zero, your gains come from someone else's pocket, giving no value in return.
    Thats the virtual digital plane.

    Buy some gold... It will come in handy when value is stored physically.

  21. #946
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    Quote Originally Posted by socal
    all rhetoric based on the misconception that you think the current system is actually capitalism.
    When did I say that? Your response has nothing to do with my comment.
    Last edited by bsnub; 31-10-2011 at 10:30 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boon Mee View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by FlyFree View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Boon Mee View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by FlyFree View Post
    Nobody can say at this stage what will evolve. It's a process that has just started in earnest a few years ago. It will be negotiated. But it won't be socialism.
    One thing that has remained a constant throughout time is folks like to own their own stuff and redistribution of wealth to bring everyone down to the same level would be ugly. It can't and won't happen. Someone mentioned earlier that being a Trader isn't 'honest' or 'real' work. Without a Futures or a Forex Market, we might as well be back in the stone age living as hunter/gatherers.

    Try a bit of Day Trading and see how difficult the job is...
    I was a smallish player on the market for a while as well. I agree. It's not real or honest work. It's being a leech, feeding on others' blood.

    Produce something. You don't have to go dig a hole. Start a real productive business that also benefits those around or below you. There is nothing wrong with capitalism, it produces motivation and good stuff. But shifting money around to make a profit is being a leech. You produce zero, your gains come from someone else's pocket, giving no value in return.

    That is a leech. Sorry.

    Money was invented to pass value.
    Ah yes, but, in order to raise capital for your business that 'produces' instead of leeching you need a Bank. And, you may need to raise enough capital to expand your business and employ more workers which requires you to sell shares of your company. We are never going to be w/out Wall St. and the service they provide.
    Back in the status quo box.

    Do you realize that ALL things change? Why do they change. Because what is is not good enough.

    You immediately jump back into the corporate box.

    It's such a large issue that it cannot really be discussed on a forum, but you know, there are ways to raise capital without an Exchange. And maybe, just maybe, consumerism and the rape of the planet (I suppose you disagree with that as well), as well as the rape of human populations may be something of the past....


    Banks are supposed to be banks. Not cannot-lose casinos.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FlyFree View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Boon Mee View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by FlyFree View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Boon Mee View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by FlyFree View Post
    Nobody can say at this stage what will evolve. It's a process that has just started in earnest a few years ago. It will be negotiated. But it won't be socialism.
    One thing that has remained a constant throughout time is folks like to own their own stuff and redistribution of wealth to bring everyone down to the same level would be ugly. It can't and won't happen. Someone mentioned earlier that being a Trader isn't 'honest' or 'real' work. Without a Futures or a Forex Market, we might as well be back in the stone age living as hunter/gatherers.

    Try a bit of Day Trading and see how difficult the job is...
    I was a smallish player on the market for a while as well. I agree. It's not real or honest work. It's being a leech, feeding on others' blood.

    Produce something. You don't have to go dig a hole. Start a real productive business that also benefits those around or below you. There is nothing wrong with capitalism, it produces motivation and good stuff. But shifting money around to make a profit is being a leech. You produce zero, your gains come from someone else's pocket, giving no value in return.

    That is a leech. Sorry.

    Money was invented to pass value.
    Ah yes, but, in order to raise capital for your business that 'produces' instead of leeching you need a Bank. And, you may need to raise enough capital to expand your business and employ more workers which requires you to sell shares of your company. We are never going to be w/out Wall St. and the service they provide.
    Back in the status quo box.

    Do you realize that ALL things change? Why do they change. Because what is is not good enough.

    You immediately jump back into the corporate box.

    It's such a large issue that it cannot really be discussed on a forum, but you know, there are ways to raise capital without an Exchange. And maybe, just maybe, consumerism and the rape of the planet (I suppose you disagree with that as well), as well as the rape of human populations may be something of the past....
    Well, suppose we went the Islamic method of running banks that do not charge interest? How do you propose to raise capitol w/out an Exchange?

    People want stuff so consumerism isn't going to go away any time soon.

    What we're dealing with here with these protests is a bunch of adult babies who want government to provide all things for all people. It can't happen.

  24. #949
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    On a lighter note:


  25. #950
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boon Mee View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by FlyFree View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Boon Mee View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by FlyFree View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Boon Mee View Post
    One thing that has remained a constant throughout time is folks like to own their own stuff and redistribution of wealth to bring everyone down to the same level would be ugly. It can't and won't happen. Someone mentioned earlier that being a Trader isn't 'honest' or 'real' work. Without a Futures or a Forex Market, we might as well be back in the stone age living as hunter/gatherers.

    Try a bit of Day Trading and see how difficult the job is...
    I was a smallish player on the market for a while as well. I agree. It's not real or honest work. It's being a leech, feeding on others' blood.

    Produce something. You don't have to go dig a hole. Start a real productive business that also benefits those around or below you. There is nothing wrong with capitalism, it produces motivation and good stuff. But shifting money around to make a profit is being a leech. You produce zero, your gains come from someone else's pocket, giving no value in return.

    That is a leech. Sorry.

    Money was invented to pass value.
    Ah yes, but, in order to raise capital for your business that 'produces' instead of leeching you need a Bank. And, you may need to raise enough capital to expand your business and employ more workers which requires you to sell shares of your company. We are never going to be w/out Wall St. and the service they provide.
    Back in the status quo box.

    Do you realize that ALL things change? Why do they change. Because what is is not good enough.

    You immediately jump back into the corporate box.

    It's such a large issue that it cannot really be discussed on a forum, but you know, there are ways to raise capital without an Exchange. And maybe, just maybe, consumerism and the rape of the planet (I suppose you disagree with that as well), as well as the rape of human populations may be something of the past....
    Well, suppose we went the Islamic method of running banks that do not charge interest? How do you propose to raise capitol w/out an Exchange?

    People want stuff so consumerism isn't going to go away any time soon.
    I can answer this in two ways. First I'll do it in a civilised, logical way.

    Consumerism didn't arise of itself, it was created by corporations.

    What has Islamic crap got to do with anything. Stop scraping the bottom of an empty barrel.

    Capital can be raised from investors interested in real business. No need for an exchange.


    The easier way to answer. Your'e a dufus.

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