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  1. #26
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    I am going to do my bit by cranking up the air conditioning to cool my part of the planet down, and fill the ice maker regularly.

  2. #27
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    I wish this global warming would hurry up. They promised us warm weather and waterfront properties. It's still cold and the sea level hasn't risen much at all.


    I'm gonna burn some more trash in the fireplace. Every little bit helps.

  3. #28
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    The Great Global Warming Swindle — once such a mighty force that it threatened to impose poverty and socialism on the entire Western World — now finds itself pitifully clamoring for attention in schlock horror movie territory. From the increasingly farcical Huffington Post:
    According to a report published in the Proceedings of the Royal Society B, large crabs stretching almost a meter wide have invaded the edge of the Antarctic, destroying ecosystems that took millions of years to build.
    The King Crabs have colonized the “Antarctic abyss” of Palmer Deep, a basin more than 4,300 feet down, off the Antarctic Peninsula, reports the New Scientist.
    What could have caused this plague of giant crabs? Global warming, of course:
    Treehugger notes that the rise in temperature is mainly to blame, given it was previously too cold for the crabs to live. In short, the researchers conclude the King Crab colonization of the Antarctic is linked to climate change.
    Fine, laugh now. But if we don’t let the government regulate our thermostats, soon the monster crabs will be coming after swimmers at the beach.


    ATTACK OF THE CRAB MONSTERS TRAILER 1957 ROGER CORMAN - YouTube

    We were warned but didn't listen...

  4. #29
    Thailand Expat Mr Earl's Avatar
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    Hard scientific actual study of ice core samples in Greenland and the Antarctic show that the global warming runs in approximately 16,000 years cycles and is most like caused by solar activity.
    To assume that the past 50 years of human activity is causing the lions share of global warming is a tremendous leap of logic.

    There are a lot of very good reasons for humanity to modify their interactions with nature and the planet, climate change isn't one of them. Harping on about climate change simply is a distraction from the real issues which ought to be addressed.
    It's likely that humanity can do very little to control the climate cycles.
    But there is much individual communities can do to modify their local health and economic security.
    From the Gospel of Earl

  5. #30
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    Nobel Prize-Winning Physicist
    Resigns Over Global Warming


    The global warming theory left him out in the cold. Dr. Ivar Giaever, a former professor with Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute and the 1973 winner of the Nobel Prize in physics, abruptly announced his resignation Tuesday, Sept. 13, from the premier physics society in disgust over its officially stated policy that "global warming is occurring."

    He said he resigned in disgust...

    Lucianne.com News Forum - Thread

  6. #31
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    One decent volcanic eruption with enough sulphur dioxide and we'll all be shivering.

    Sadly working together won't work.
    exactly. we flatter ourselves if we think we are bigger than nature, nature has a way of balancing things out, and if nature thinks that man is overstepping the mark, then nature will take appropriate action, be it a volcano, a tsunami or a massive epidemic or food shortage that reduces the population by an amount necessary to balance things out again.

    the earth will go on, but humanity may not. in the greater scheme of things, we are pretty insignificant.

  7. #32
    Guest Member S Landreth's Avatar
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    an update/some news,............





    To conclude, a projection from 1981 for rising temperatures in a major science journal, at a time that the temperature rise was not yet obvious in the observations, has been found to agree well with the observations since then, underestimating the observed trend by about 30%, and easily beating naive predictions of no-change or a linear continuation of trends. It is also a nice example of a statement based on theory that could be falsified and up to now has withstood the test. The “global warming hypothesis” has been developed according to the principles of sound science.




    warmer where you are?: RealClimate: Evaluating a 1981 temperature projection


    and,............


    The last 60 years have been the hottest in Australasia for a millennium and cannot be explained by natural causes, according to a new report by scientists that supports the case for a reduction in manmade carbon emissions.

    In the first major study of its kind in the region, scientists at the University of Melbourne used natural data from 27 climate indicators, including tree rings, corals and ice cores to map temperature trends over the past 1,000 years.

    "Our study revealed that recent warming in a 1,000-year context is highly unusual and cannot be explained by natural factors alone, suggesting a strong influence of human-caused climate change in the Australasian region," said the study's lead researcher, Dr Joelle Gergis.


    kiss your *** goodbye: Australasia has hottest 60 years in a millennium, scientists find | Science | guardian.co.uk
    Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by S Landreth
    The “global warming hypothesis” has been developed according to the principles of sound science.
    No it is not.


    60 years is nothing, it is nonsense to say anything about the so called climate change in a 60 year window.

    Try a 1000 year or a million year pattern before commenting.

    It's like saying the last 3 days in a row have each been hotter than the other, it must be climate change.

  9. #34
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    The 1000 year Australian hockey itch
    Posted on May 17, 2012 by Anthony Watts
    From the University of Melbourne, I’m sure Julia and Flannery are thrilled at this paleo-reconstruction, and of course, the blame goes on Mann, er man. I find it interesting though that the lead author, Dr Joelle Gergis, thinks of her science work as a “guerrilla war”. From “Science Matters”:



    Seems like just another angry Michael Mann clone to me.

    At the outset of this project in 2010, they said:

    Australian climate scientist Professor Chris Turney from the University of Exeter, UK says this meeting will allow us to place Australian records in a global context and gives us an opportunity to fully understand natural climate variability.

    Yet in the current press release, the phrase “natural climate variability” is not mentioned. WUWT?

    1,000 years of climate data confirms Australia’s warming

    In the first study of its kind in Australasia, scientists have used 27 natural climate records to create the first large-scale temperature reconstruction for the region over the last 1000 years.

    The study was led by researchers at the University of Melbourne and used a range of natural indicators including tree rings, corals and ice cores to study Australasian temperatures over the past millennium and compared them to climate model simulations.

    Lead researcher, Dr Joelle Gergis from the University of Melbourne said the results show that there are no other warm periods in the last 1000 years that match the warming experienced in Australasia since 1950.


    “Our study revealed that recent warming in a 1000 year context is highly unusual and cannot be explained by natural factors alone, suggesting a strong influence of human-caused climate change in the Australasian region,” she said.

    The study published today in the Journal of Climate will form the Australasian region’s contribution to the 5th IPCC climate change assessment report chapter on past climate.

    She said using what is known as ‘palaeoclimate’ or natural records, such as tree rings, corals and ice cores, are fundamental in evaluating regional and global climate variability over centuries before direct temperature records started in 1910.

    Dr Gergis collated these natural records provided by decades of work by more than 30 researchers from Australia, New Zealand and around the world.

    The reconstruction was developed using 27 natural climate records calculated in 3000 different ways to ensure that the results were robust.

    She said reconstructions of regional temperature not only provide a climate picture of the past but also a significant platform to reduce uncertainties associated with future climate variability.

    The study is part of a global collaboration, PAGES, Past Global Changes Regional 2K initiative, which is working to reconstruct the last 2000 years of climate across every region in the world in order to reduce uncertainties associated with future climate change projections.

    Collaborators include the Climate Change Research Centre and the ARC Centre of Excellence for Climate System Science, University of New South Wales where the climate modeling was conducted.

    ###

    The study was funded by the Australian Research Council, Federal Department of Climate Change and Energy Efficiency and Past Global Changes (PAGES).

    Of course, in true Mannian form, the press release has no link to the actual paper. We aren’t supposed to look to closely at this things don’t you know?

    And, searching the JoC journal index of the most recent issue shows no mention of this paper, so it must have just been accepted. Does anybody have a copy of this in part or full?

    UPDATE: via Marc Hendrickx, thanks.

    Paper (PDF)

    Briefing powerpoint presentation (PDF)
    The 1000 year Australian hockey itch | Watts Up With That?

  10. #35
    Guest Member S Landreth's Avatar
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    Environmental collapse now a serious threat: scientists

    PARIS — Climate change, population growth and environmental destruction could cause a collapse of the ecosystem just a few generations from now, scientists warned on Wednesday in the journal Nature.

    The paper by 22 top researchers said a “tipping point” by which the biosphere goes into swift and irreversible change, with potentially cataclysmic impacts for humans, could occur as early as this century.

    The warning contrasts with a mainstream view among scientists that environmental collapse would be gradual and take centuries.


    The study appears ahead of the June 20-22 UN Conference on Sustainable Development, the 20-year followup to the Earth Summit that set down priorities for protecting the environment.

    The Nature paper, written by biologists, ecologists, geologists and palaeontologists from three continents, compared the biological impact of past episodes of global change with what is happening today.

    The factors in today’s equation include a world population that is set to rise from seven billion to around 9.3 billion by mid-century and global warming that will outstrip the UN target of two degrees Celsius (3.6 degrees Fahrenheit).

    The team determined that once 50-90 percent of small-scale ecosystems become altered, the entire eco-web tips over into a new state, characterised especially by species extinctions.

    Once the shift happens, it cannot be reversed.

    To support today’s population, about 43 percent of Earth’s ice-free land surface is being used for farming or habitation, according to the study.

    On current trends, the 50 percent mark will be reached by 2025, a point the scientists said is worryingly close to the tipping point.

    If that happened, collapse would entail a shocking disruption for the world’s food supply, with bread-basket regions curtailed in their ability to grow corn, wheat, rice, fodder and other essential crops.

    “It really will be a new world, biologically, at that point,” said lead author Anthony Barnosky, a professor of integrative biology at the University of California in Berkeley.

    “The data suggests that there will be a reduction in biodiversity and severe impacts on much of what we depend on to sustain our quality of life, including, for example, fisheries, agriculture, forest products and clean water. This could happen within just a few generations.”

    The authors stressed it was unclear when this feared tipover would happen, given blanks in knowledge about the phenomenon.

    And they said there were plenty of solutions — such as ending unsustainable patterns of growth and resource waste — that mean it is not inevitable.

    “In a nutshell, humans have not done anything really important to stave off the worst because the social structures for doing something just aren’t there,” said Arne Mooers, a professor of biodiversity at Simon Fraser University in Canada’s British Columbia.

    “My colleagues who study climate-induced changes through the Earth’s history are more than pretty worried,” he said in a press release. “In fact, some are terrified.”

    Past shifts examined in the study included the end of the last Ice Age, between 14,000 and 11,000 years ago, and five species mass extinctions which occurred around 443 million, 359 million, 251 million, 200 million and 65 million years ago.

    Earth today is vulnerable to fast change because of the growing connectedness between ecosystems, voracious use of resources and an unprecedented surge in greenhouse gases, the authors concluded.

    In a report on Wednesday issued ahead of the “Rio+20″ summit, the UN Environment Programme (UNEP) warned that burgeoning populations and unsustainable patterns of growth were driving Earth towards “unprecedented” eco-damage.

  11. #36
    Thailand Expat Jesus Jones's Avatar
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    The issue is not about climate change. Any moron knows there is and always will be climate change. The issue is the lying scumbags who blame it on our consumption yet do nothing to stop it and simply increase taxes while they jet around living the high-life.

    These politicians and scientist keep drumming on about the sinking ship and believe a rise in taxes will stop it. Funny really.
    You bullied, you laughed, you lied, you lost!

  12. #37
    Thailand Expat Jesus Jones's Avatar
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    While we are at it, let's talk about our consumption. These scientists and politicians want us to chop or old TVs and cars in for more economical units each year - every six months in some cases. How much is involved in churning out this new shit. On one hand we have commercialism backed by the very same elites, and on the other hand the same people are saying if you want them, pay a little more tax as the planet is in dire straits!

  13. #38
    Valve Master Latindancer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jesus Jones View Post
    The issue is not about climate change. Any moron knows there is and always will be climate change. The issue is the lying scumbags who blame it on our consumption yet do nothing to stop it and simply increase taxes while they jet around living the high-life.

    These politicians and scientist keep drumming on about the sinking ship and believe a rise in taxes will stop it. Funny really.
    The problem is also that when some political party actually DOES something about it, like the current Australian government introducing the carbon tax and the mining tax, big business and the political conservatives tied to business wail and moan about it being the end of the economy. Moreover Australia is selling massive amounts of coal to China which will be burnt and cause global warming. But we're getting massive amounts of money from the sale. We're on a treadmill.
    .
    .
    .

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jesus Jones View Post
    The issue is not about climate change. Any moron knows there is and always will be climate change. The issue is the lying scumbags who blame it on our consumption yet do nothing to stop it and simply increase taxes while they jet around living the high-life.

    These politicians and scientist keep drumming on about the sinking ship and believe a rise in taxes will stop it. Funny really.
    Buy that man a beer and give him a chair to stand on. I'm willing to hear your testimony, brother.

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jesus Jones View Post
    While we are at it, let's talk about our consumption. These scientists and politicians want us to chop or old TVs and cars in for more economical units each year - every six months in some cases. How much is involved in churning out this new shit. On one hand we have commercialism backed by the very same elites, and on the other hand the same people are saying if you want them, pay a little more tax as the planet is in dire straits!
    Hear! Hear! Testify!

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Latindancer View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jesus Jones View Post
    The issue is not about climate change. Any moron knows there is and always will be climate change. The issue is the lying scumbags who blame it on our consumption yet do nothing to stop it and simply increase taxes while they jet around living the high-life.

    These politicians and scientist keep drumming on about the sinking ship and believe a rise in taxes will stop it. Funny really.
    The problem is also that when some political party actually DOES something about it, like the current Australian government introducing the carbon tax and the mining tax, big business and the political conservatives tied to business wail and moan about it being the end of the economy. Moreover Australia is selling massive amounts of coal to China which will be burnt and cause global warming. But we're getting massive amounts of money from the sale. We're on a treadmill.
    .
    .
    .
    The USA is closing coal burning energy plants in an effort to become cleaner. Likewise, the coal is now being shipped to China to be burned where there are no standards. Which is more beneficial to the planet, burning coal in the USA or shipping it to be burned in China?

    Again, the Obama administration is limiting oil exploration where it can in the USA and off USA shores. Is it safer that Brazil does the searching and drilling?

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by S Landreth View Post
    For those of you who are still undecided, keep reading.
    I'm a believer, man. Here's photographic evidence how MMGW has affected bird populations:


  18. #43
    Guest Member S Landreth's Avatar
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    Rates of sea level rise are increasing three-to-four times faster along portions of the U.S. Atlantic Coast than globally, according to a new U.S. Geological Survey report published in Nature Climate Change.

    Since about 1990, sea-level rise in the 600-mile stretch of coastal zone from Cape Hatteras, N.C. to north of Boston, Mass. -- coined a "hotspot" by scientists -- has increased 2 - 3.7 millimeters per year; the global increase over the same period was 0.6 – 1.0 millimeter per year.

    Based on data and analyses included in the report, if global temperatures continue to rise, rates of sea level rise in this area are expected to continue increasing.

    The report shows that the sea-level rise hotspot is consistent with the slowing of Atlantic Ocean circulation. Models show this change in circulation may be tied to changes in water temperature, salinity and density in the subpolar north Atlantic.

    "Many people mistakenly think that the rate of sea level rise is the same everywhere as glaciers and ice caps melt, increasing the volume of ocean water, but other effects can be as large or larger than the so-called 'eustatic' rise," said USGS Director Marcia McNutt. "As demonstrated in this study, regional oceanographic contributions must be taken into account in planning for what happens to coastal property."

    Though global sea level has been projected to rise roughly two-to-three feet or more by the end of the 21st century, it will not climb at the same rate at every location. Differences in land movements, strength of ocean currents, water temperatures, and salinity can cause regional and local highs and lows in sea level.

    "Cities in the hotspot, like Norfolk, New York, and Boston already experience damaging floods during relatively low intensity storms," said Dr. Asbury (Abby) Sallenger, USGS oceanographer and project lead. "Ongoing accelerated sea level rise in the hotspot will make coastal cities and surrounding areas increasingly vulnerable to flooding by adding to the height that storm surge and breaking waves reach on the coast."

    During the 21st century, the increases in sea level rise rate that have already occurred in the hotspot will yield increases in sea level of 8 to 11.4 inches by 2100. This regional sea level increase would be in addition to components of global sea level rise.

    To determine accelerations of sea level, USGS scientists analyzed tide gauge data throughout much of North America in a way that removed long-term (linear) trends associated with vertical land movements. This allowed them to focus on recent changes in rates of sea-level rise caused, for example, by changes in ocean circulation.

    The report, Hotspot of accelerated sea-level rise on the Atlantic coast of North America, was published in the journal Nature Climate Change.

    USGS Release: Sea Level Rise Accelerating in U.S. Atlantic Coast (6/24/2012 1:00:00 PM)

  19. #44
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    With reference to the thread title, I don't have any doubts that climate change is occurring, or that mankind is contributing to it, but I have serious doubts that anything significant can be done to mitigate it through changes in behavior. Right about the time it becomes clear to the people that matter that A) We're screwed, and B) Doesn't matter how rich and powerful you are, you will be affected, there will be a desperate effort to make a difference through some grandiose geoengineering scheme, which may or may not make a difference. As a species we are still evolving, and one of the hallmarks of our evolution is that we don't learn or attempt to change our ways until the 11th hour. This is true for the race as much as it is for individuals. Your liver is fatty? OK, whatever. Cirrhosis of the liver? OK, better stop drinking. And so on. The time to make the necessary changes in terms of emissions and alternative fuels was before China, India and other new economies became significant players. It isn't as if they are going to follow any example set by Europe, Japan or the US (if the US were even interested) now. Too late.
    “You can lead a horticulture but you can’t make her think.” Dorothy Parker

  20. #45
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    Climate change is a great title... because the climate always changes. The climate we have now is a result of climate change; and there will be a different climate in the far future.

    Mankind is contributing to it... is another great strapline... because every living thing contributes to the cllimate in some indescernible way.

    It's a sophisticated piece of sophistry in that, the plot of the story plays out far into the future beyond the present population's imagination. The histrionic headlines work well to whip up a profile in the public domain and amongst the fashionable elite, in the same sort of way that BandAid did... yet we know understand that the problems in parts of eastern Ethiopia were to do with governance and rule of law, not some celestial smiting.
    It leverages funding better than even sticking the word "nano" on the front of anything does, so of course every reseach scientist has a vested interest in contextualising their research in this narrative framework, to maintain their careers and pay their mortgages.

    Let's be a little more specific - climate change is really about "biome" change, and that is a function of a number of factors, and does not occur uniformly across the world, because no aspect of the planet is uniform.

    So climate change advocates will show you images of particular events happening, and then deploy a logical fallacy to connect a number otherwise unconnected events; e.g.: deforestation; glacier melting; desertification etc...

    The problem is that all these things are bunged together as a giant amorphous foe, but the actual specific chain of events that cause any of them to happen, are never really analysed.

    Then you listen to the counsel of despair by Robuzo above - that this thing is so big and overpowering, and we are too little to do anything about it. It's a total false premiss. This "11th hour" doesn't exist. It's a weird head-head-in-the-sand attitude that suddenly seems to feel overpowered by world around - and perhaps a result of the phenomenon of the amount of information now freely available in the world.

    As most problems in the world boil down to failures of communication; most of these unrelated "biome collapse" issues are to do with good governance/rule of law (as with most things).
    Most of the results affect the places that cause the problem: the developing world is the one that is going to face the brunt of the problems - not just because of lack of resources, but because of their primitive corrupt culture.
    Each culture has different priorities and different problems to manage, and each responds differently to an issue like "biome collapse". Some cultures are superior to others, and the ones that are inferior will do the most damage to themselves - parts of China, India, and America to name a few. Thailand has also demonstrated its cultural inferiority with the floods last year.
    These countries are damaging and will continue to damage themselves and create more opportunities for superior cultures to raid them (again).
    Famine in China and India and Africa are on the horizon.
    Too late for what?!

    Having said all that, Globalisation is part of the self-destructive scramble for growth by China and India, which I think is going to lead to a sharp increase deaths through environmental disasters and civil unrest in those countries when the results start to play out. The same can't be said of places like NW Eusope or a lot of North America.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1F2i0rYMj8

    we are all figments of our own imagination.

  21. #46
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    "Then you listen to the counsel of despair by Robuzo above - that this thing is so big and overpowering, and we are too little to do anything about it. It's a total false premiss. This "11th hour" doesn't exist. It's a weird head-head-in-the-sand attitude that suddenly seems to feel overpowered by world around - and perhaps a result of the phenomenon of the amount of information now freely available in the world."

    I'm sorry, are you referring to my post? Where did I say "we are too little"? "weird head-head-in-the-sand attitude that suddenly seems to feel overpowered"- huh? Moron. Complete misstatement of what I said. Of course, since you can't read it follows that you also can't write. What I'm saying is that people don't change unless they are forced to do so. That is not a "counsel of despair," you boring, obtuse blowhard, it is an observation.

    For those of you who can't read, and even you who can a video from the Berkeley Initiative in Global Change Biology:


    Otherwise, there is plenty of information out there about geoengineering solutions, which despite my "weird head-head-in-the-sand attitude" "may or may not make a difference."

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by robuzo
    there is plenty of information out there about geoengineering solutions,
    For the long term we need renewable energy sources. But we don't have the technology just yet. Everybody who says otherwise is overoptimistic or plainly lying.

    However we are fast approaching a tipping point where there will be no turning back. I am therefore all in favor of some geoengineering method.

    Of all the methods suggested, the only one that seems safe and costeffective to me is the one that suggests to pump fine droplets of saltwater into the atmosphere to increase clouds and reflect some of the sunlight. It has the advantage of not having any long term effects. Once you stop, climate will return to what it would be without intervention.

  23. #48
    Thailand Expat Humbert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Takeovers
    For the long term we need renewable energy sources. But we don't have the technology just yet. Everybody who says otherwise is overoptimistic or plainly lying. However we are fast approaching a tipping point where there will be no turning back.
    True enough. The solutions are expensive and will require incentives provided through tax policy. Unfortunately the solutions require disincentives too so that we can wean ourselves from carbon based energy sources. People do not want to hear this and that is one the main reasons we have climate change deniers. The solutions are very tough and require sacrifice which is a tough sell in countries like the US.

  24. #49
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    A video about the proposed method.



    Of course all the nutters and conspiracy theorists are up in arms against any geoengineering approach and see apocalypse.

    But that is exactly what I like most about this method. You can just stop and there are no long term effects. And initial tests would not cost too much. I see a few hundred million dollars a very small amount in that context.

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Humbert View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Takeovers
    For the long term we need renewable energy sources. But we don't have the technology just yet. Everybody who says otherwise is overoptimistic or plainly lying. However we are fast approaching a tipping point where there will be no turning back.
    True enough. The solutions are expensive and will require incentives provided through tax policy. Unfortunately the solutions require disincentives too so that we can wean ourselves from carbon based energy sources. People do not want to hear this and that is one the main reasons we have climate change deniers. The solutions are very tough and require sacrifice which is a tough sell in countries like the US.
    Also, facing a massive propaganda campaign by some players with very deep pockets.

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