Thread: Libyan arms embargo opens the door to Islamic fundamentalism

need to get that no fly zone operational yesterday .

when was the last time the UNSC was in unanimous agreement on anything ?

then the UN forces need to grab Gaddafi and deliver him to the Hague

in doing so they would go a long way to mending their reputation and send other despots a strong message .

yeh , I know , I'll take a number and stand in line

Originally Posted by Mid

need to get that no fly zone operational yesterday .

Matt cartoons witty political cartoons and satirical sketches - Telegraph

As Robert Gates told congress the other day, the first thing that will done to implement the no-fly zone is a full out attack on the Libyan air defense system. He also said, we can do it, but everyone needs to understand what it means.
TH
Gates: Libyan no-fly zone would mean widespread air strikes


By John T. Bennett - 03/02/11 02:41 PM ET

Defense Secretary Robert Gates on Wednesday said the U.S. military could establish a no-fly zone over Libya, but he cautioned that doing so would first require widespread air strikes across that nation.
“If it’s ordered, we can do it,” Gates told the House Appropriations's Defense subcommittee.
But establishing control of Libyan air space would “start with attacks to destroy” Libyan air defense systems. That kind of assault would require more U.S. military aircraft than “you would find on a single aircraft carrier.”
...
The fact that the no-fly zone idea is complex does not mean it's not on the table," Carney said. "We have not ruled any options out."

Robs thesis is a considerable stretch, imho. I think the key underlying 'theme' or insight as it applies to Libya is Tribalism, rather than pan- Islamism or fundamentalism.

The more I look at the Libyan situation, the more opaque it becomes frankly.
Certainly, we in the West despise Gaddafi (for a reason)- and our Press coverage is selective and biased accordingly. But I still think he's a Loon.
The timing of this 'revolution' has surely been influenced by the other democratic protests, but that is the only real commonality with Egypt & Tunisia, etc.
Economically speaking, in terms of both wealth distribution and average living standards, Libya actually has an excellent record- totally the opposite to Egypt. So the basis of these protests is not that. It is more regionalism, and tribalism- unquestionably some nepotism thrown in the mix too.
But the violent reaction of the State, and Gaddafi's insane rants, should spell the end of the man as far as I'm concerned. He's lost it, whatever 'It' is.

If you want a different perspective on things, a good rule of thumb is to look up what the 'loony left' is saying.
It doesn't agree with my perspective, but certainly worth reading- given the totally opposite bias of the western media-

World Cheers as the CIA Plunges Libya Into Chaos [ ]

[at][at][at][at] :[at][at][at][at][at] Information Clearing House: ICH

Originally Posted by Mid

need to get that no fly zone operational yesterday .

when was the last time the UNSC was in unanimous agreement on anything ?

then the UN forces need to grab Gaddafi and deliver him to the Hague

in doing so they would go a long way to mending their reputation and send other despots a strong message .

yeh , I know , I'll take a number and stand in line

Yet, historically, the "real" despotic criminals always receive a free pass from such contrived international tribunals. The only possible message that might be forewarned is the one that they trumpet.

Originally Posted by OhOh

Originally Posted by Mid

need to get that no fly zone operational yesterday .

Maybe the Libyan air defences are what is stopping them? Maybe the countries which are suggesting it don't want to start another illegal war.

Originally Posted by Mid

then the UN forces need to grab Gaddafi and deliver him to the Hague

The UN does not have any "forces" who would sign up to an illegal war.

Originally Posted by Mid

in doing so they would go a long way to mending their reputation and send other despots a strong message

By joining the other illegal forces at war at the moment? Their reputation was shot a while ago.

So tell me, what is a legal war?

Originally Posted by RPETER65

Originally Posted by OhOh

Originally Posted by Mid

need to get that no fly zone operational yesterday .

Maybe the Libyan air defences are what is stopping them? Maybe the countries which are suggesting it don't want to start another illegal war.

Originally Posted by Mid

then the UN forces need to grab Gaddafi and deliver him to the Hague

The UN does not have any "forces" who would sign up to an illegal war.

Originally Posted by Mid

in doing so they would go a long way to mending their reputation and send other despots a strong message

By joining the other illegal forces at war at the moment? Their reputation was shot a while ago.

So tell me, what is a legal war?

A legal war is defined: "its alright for us, but not for you"

It seems the arms embargo is having the desired effect. The civilians, armed only with machine guns and anti aircraft guns are getting slaughtered by government troops with tanks, aircraft, artillery, well you know all the regular army equipment.

The "civilians" have been encouraged by the rebel leaders/ex army, navy and airforce personnel to take the war to the government. The "civilians" have been photographed to be in charge of tanks, APCs, anti aircraft guns, AA missiles, RPGs,....

They are being advised by the western powers, being promised the earth.

If the western powers do achieve their aim of regime change the "civilians" will be discarded as history has shown they have been for the last 60 years.

I don't believe the West wants regime change. They want a stable government that will continue the supply of oil. If Gadaffi, or his regime remain, the oil companies will continue with business as usual. If there is a new regime they will have to negotiate a new deal.

But they were getting that with Gaddafi in power as you say. This so called "civilian" uprising is being encouraged by the west.

The difference in their resources consists, at the moment, of a few planes which either cannot hit their targets, which means they are of no concern, or they are being told not to hit them hard.

Either way the present casualties on both sides are minuscule compared to the numbers which would occur if the western powers get involved.

The weapons that the government have, which they have not used yet, have the potential to hit the fleets currently offshore, the planes to be used in the no-fly regime and even southern Italy, Greece, Egypt, Cyprus .... will be targeted.

If these are brought into play because the western powers play the hard game it will become an inferno in the region, the islamists will join in and many many more "civilians" will be massacred, sorry, will become collateral damage.

The western powers need to step back both verbally and physically and allow the "civilian" uprising to be negotiated into an agreement. Gaddafi appears to want to stay in Libya surely this is the best place for him, with a strong new self appointed government.

unbelievable, another serial International loser is putting their eggs into the Libyan mess