Thread: What's up with Norway?

Originally Posted by Wallace

There is a massive difference between hunting and killing wild animals and farming. It is not hypocrisy to eat meat (which is farmed) and also to protest against whaling.

I'd have to disagree with you there, many "farmed" animals are kept in apauling conditions, little more than factory units. Food in one end, shit out the other and sell whats left.
Have you ever seen a large scale chicken or pig farm ? Female sow's are often basicaly clamped down into position to provide milk for the piglets. Chickens kept in cages that they cant even turn around in (egg production). All so the consumers can save a buck here and there. At least when you hunt an animal (for food) it has had the opertunity of a decent life. I do sometimes come across as calous in reguard to animals, but it's a part of life on the farm and I do belive that all animals deserve to be treated humanly even the one's that we are going to kill

Anyway apart from that little rant I'd be against the hunting of any endangered animal and also against sport hunting (Fox hunting for example) Just to find out a bit more I had a look on Wiki Minke Whale - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It seems that norway only caught 521 out of a quata of 1052, now those don't seem to be particularly high numbers to me and does give some creadence to Whiteshivas statment on it being a traditional thing.
The part "Population and distribution" I found quite confusing but my take on it was that by current estimates there were 184,000 in the northen Hemishere and the figure of 760,000 (which the Japanese use to base their catch on)in the southern Hemisphere was grosly overestimated by about 50% even so that would still leave over 300,000.

All the fish they catch are'nt farmed either but nobody really gives a shit about them.

Originally Posted by Hootad Binky

Originally Posted by attaboy

Outcasts they are operating in the darker corners of commerce.

Originally Posted by Storekeeper

backwardsass countries like Norway

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

Norway has got to be one of the sorriest countries on earth.

Norway (from it's large North Sea oil deposits) has a reserve national fund of around a quarter of a trillion dollars to play around with. It's the second-largest in the world (the Chinese have a trillion) and has effects on the world financial markets that would make conspiracy theorists slather, (funny we never hear much about it).

My point? Why would they need to hunt whales?

Well we can't all work in the oil & gas industry, you know!

I am more than willing to listen to arguments against whaling, if you have some, that is, but to condemn hunting based on a country's foreign reserves, that is pathetic. So now we are not allowed to use our natural resources just because we are a rich nation? So why do (say) Americans hunt then - because they can't afford to buy food?

Personally, I am in agreement with RC - I feel a lot more sorry for domestic animals condemned to a life in "prison", injected with hormones and other growth-inducers, raised for the sole purpose of eventually being killed in a slaughterhouse, than for a mink whale that lives a life of freedom and has less than 0.5% chance of being killed by a whaler in a single year. I know which animal I'd rather be.

As to Wallace's claim of overfishing, the Norwegians have probably played their share in the past, but current regulations places strict limits on how much can be caught, and the size of the nets used, and have so for as long as I can remember. You want to find people who cause the real problems here, look to the Spanish and Russian factory trawlers in the North Atlantic. The fishing industry is important to Norway, and it is in our interest to maintain fish stocks for the future. It is only a renewable resource if properly looked after - ditto with the whales. And reindeer, moose, deer, ducks, hares, etc, which, by the way are hunted in large numbers each year, with no detrimental effect to their numbers. In fact there are more moose in Norway now than ever before!

Originally Posted by wallace

Minke whales ARE on the endangered species list.

Minke Whale - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia According to Wikipedia, it is "conservation dependent", which is 6 out of 7 on the Conservation scale, 1 being Extinct, 7 being "Least concern".

Wallaces post is typical of the anti-whaling lobby - screw the facts, shoot from the hip, and let's throw reason and common sense out the window.

Besides, wallace, if you are so concerned about the marine wildlife, why don't you focus you energy where it is really needed - such as to outlaw and stop dynamite and poison fishing in Asia, or the killing of sharks for their fins - fins cut of, and the sharkes thrown back in the sea while still alive? Several shark species are in real danger of going extinct, but they don't seem to get the same media attention.

Or perhaps focus your attention on all the crap that gets dumped into the oceans each and every year - I am convinced this is a far bigger threath to marine life, including mink whales, whan Norwegian whalers are.

Does Norway really need to point fingers at incidental killings of dolphins to say 'its not just us'.

No we don't, and I can't recall that we have ever done so either.

Perhaps you who are against whaling should clarify where you stand first, so that I can then address and perhaps clarify the issues.

1) Do you condone the killing of domestic animals for food (such as lambs)?
2) Do you condone the killing of wild (non-endangered) land animals (such as moose, caribou, deer, rabbits) when it is the main source of food?
3) Do you condone the killing of wild (non-endangered) land animals (such as moose, caribou, deer, rabbits) when it is a supplementary source of food?
4) Do you condone the killing of whales when it is the main source of food?
5) Do you condone the killing of whales when it is a supplementary source of food?

and perhaps:

6) Did you see "Free Willy", and think that whales are cuter than cows?

Originally Posted by RDN

Originally Posted by Hootad Binky

Norway (from it's large North Sea oil deposits) has a reserve national fund of around a quarter of a trillion dollars to play around with...

Does George Bush know? (About the oil, I mean). Doubt if the Norwegians would put up much of a fight.

I do......and their oil stock are great too!

Don't tell Whiteshiva that I'am making money with Norwegian oil.......he will hate me even more then.

If there are plenty of whales, then I think it's fine to hunt them.

If you're hunting them because they are eating fish (I thought they all ate plankton???), then there is a bigger problem then just whales eating fish. Like over fishing...

So where does that leave the whales in 20 or 30 years time? Do we start hunting whalers because for each whaler killed, that saves .17 whales?

Japan to saying that they are hunting for research purposes has gotta be the biggest joke ever. It' just more over fishing on their part.

1) Do you condone the killing of domestic animals for food (such as lambs)?
2) Do you condone the killing of wild (non-endangered) land animals (such as moose, caribou, deer, rabbits) when it is the main source of food?
3) Do you condone the killing of wild (non-endangered) land animals (such as moose, caribou, deer, rabbits) when it is a supplementary source of food?
4) Do you condone the killing of whales when it is the main source of food?
5) Do you condone the killing of whales when it is a supplementary source of food?
and perhaps:
6) Did you see "Free Willy", and think that whales are cuter than cows?

question 1: Yes

questions 2 and 3: Yes as long as numbers of geneticaly diverse healthy stock remain to replenish or grow the numbers.

question 4: Yes. By those people with the reasons in #5. If the whale is endangered then the number killed could not be detrimental to the species. A healthy sustainable genetic diversity within the species would have to be maintained otherwise the hunts could not occur.

question 5: Yes if the considerations in #4 are met. If the killing is a ritual of people like the Inuits then I'd say it's ok. If it helps them to maintain what identity they have left and if hunting helps to bind them and helps to provide self-respect, then it's ok. They have had enough problems which has them living with high alcoholism and high suicide rates. Wait a minute... maybe I should feel some compassion for the Norwegians and their problems, but wait, they are rated the #1 country in the world so what is their problem with alcoholism and suicide? Does whaling help provide Norwegians with some sort of spirituality they are lacking? What I don't agree with is killing some minke whales just so Norwegians can have the whale's share of the fish in the in the ocean the whales would otherwise eat. The Norwegian govt. official said, "Each Minke whale we kill gives 5 tons more fish to the Norwegian fishermen." If Norway is so rich, why don't they leave the whales alone and catch fewer fish and pay a higher price for those fish caught?

Does Norway worry about losing its traditions and thus its identity? Things come and go and its happening all over the world. How long does the country plan on hiding out? It must be great to be #1. In sporting events being #1 takes discipline. And if its a group sport people have to be on the same page. Kudos to Norway for its abilitiy to maintain common goals. Who are these amazing people?

Ethnicand/or national origin: ethnic Norwegians 92.7% Swedes 0.7% Danes 0.6% Peoples of the former Yugoslavia 0.5% British 0.3% Americans 0.2% Germans 0.2% Iraqis 0.2% Pakistanis 0.2% Somalis 0.1% Finns 0.1% Iranians 0.1% others 3.7% Sami20,000

Criminee sakes! They have to break down the races into national orgins just to get an appearence of diversity? I wonder how long the list would be if the USAs population demographics were broken down into country of origin?


question #6: I've never kissed a Willy but I have kissed a cow.

Originally Posted by HermantheGerman

" The gunners themselves admit that if whales could scream the industry would stop, for nobody would be able to stand it "
Dr Harry Lillie

"If people had to slaughter their own animals for food, rather than buying it in supermarkets, most TD members would be vegetarians"

Whiteshiva

"Pigs scream like hell when they are slaughtered - only the Jews and Muslims listened."

Whiteshiva

Originally Posted by Whiteshiva

"If people had to slaughter their own animals for food, rather than buying it in supermarkets, most TD members would be vegetarians"

Whiteshiva

Not me, I like bacon, sausage scrapple and pork rinds.
I've butchered many animals. It's not a big deal. I actually enjoy it because it requires some skill to do it well.
Making good sausage is an art though.

I can have a caribou gutted and quartered in less than 15 minutes.( I know a couple of natives who can do it in 5 minutes!)
I can remove the tongue from it's skull in 30 seconds.
Caribou tongue is a supreme delicacy!

Shiva, you are probably right most people are lilly livered pansies who would faint at the sight of the blood.