Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 26 to 39 of 39
  1. #26
    Member

    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Last Online
    10-08-2011 @ 09:34 PM
    Posts
    161
    Quote Originally Posted by larvidchr View Post
    In the end there is nothing philanthropical about the invasions of Iraq, that the Iraqi people have gained a greater freedom is just a big good bonus, but it was mostly about us protecting our own interests, removing a threat and creating the kind of stability we want in the area for now, you can think that less noble, but it is the way the world works, and any threat on our energy supply is a serious threat for western societies, serious enough to go to war over.


    Iraq = Succes
    Afghanistan = ongoing
    I like the first part of your reply, it is not trying to glamorise the war. It was a war, and still is, for profit. Nothing more, nothing less.

    I disagree that the Iraqi people are better off now, after all, what value is the right to vote if you fear for your life every time you go to a market?

    Removing a threat? A threat to oil production. Definitely not a threat to anyone outside of the vicinity.

    Iraq - Success? Militarily in prying the country open and killing tens of thousands of civilians? Yes

    Afghanistan? Never. Not ever. But there will be spin attached to when there is a withdrawal to proclaim it a success, just like Iraq

  2. #27
    In transit to Valhalla

    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Last Online
    @
    Posts
    5,036
    Quote Originally Posted by pickel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by larvidchr
    Yes, those are the goals and we seem to agree that those are achieved
    So, you are agreeing that the goals were to line the pockets of Western private contractors with taxpayers money?
    No Pickel Mate I don't, I don't agree who instigated the war but only that the goals of the instigators is achieved. The war was to protect our energy supplies, but you are completely right that private contractors have made and are making an unprecedented "killing" no pun intended, the in my mind wrong policy's of privatising as much of war efforts as possible is dangerous and wrong.

    I have done it before in another thread, but will again recommend the book- "Blackwater, the rise of the World's most powerful mercenary army" by Jeremy Scahill, although biased it is still chilling reading.

    At present there are more than 100.000 private contractors in Iraq, doing everything from direct military operations to clandestine operations and intelligence, security and transport, and without the rules, responsibilities and regulations that normal Soldiers have to adhere to.

    So when Obama and the coalition claims to have withdrawn from Iraq it is indeed a truth with modifications.
    Last edited by larvidchr; 30-09-2010 at 01:37 PM.

  3. #28
    Member

    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Last Online
    10-08-2011 @ 09:34 PM
    Posts
    161
    Don\'t the US still have 50.000 troops in Iraq?

  4. #29
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Last Online
    20-03-2011 @ 01:25 PM
    Posts
    225
    Always good to see moderate Muslims speak out against the extremists. Do we see and hear about it enough? No.

  5. #30
    Elite Mumbler
    pickel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Last Online
    @
    Location
    Isolation
    Posts
    7,692
    Quote Originally Posted by gingsa
    Do we see and hear about it enough? No.
    Doesn't mean it doesn't happen. If you think mainstream media doesn't have an agenda, you are blinkered.

  6. #31
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Last Online
    20-03-2011 @ 01:25 PM
    Posts
    225
    Quote Originally Posted by pickel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by gingsa
    Do we see and hear about it enough? No.
    Doesn't mean it doesn't happen. If you think mainstream media doesn't have an agenda, you are blinkered.

    I think most adults realize the mainstream media has a liberal agenda. That aside, its up to muslims to rid themselves of the many extremists who hide among them.

  7. #32
    Thailand Expat
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Last Online
    @
    Posts
    38,456
    Quote Originally Posted by larvidchr
    can you name just one major battle lost,
    Just like Vietnam then. Same outcome too I wager. There is some talk of increased behind the scenes diplomacy having picked up- if Obama is sensible, he will be looking for a face saving way to disengage.
    Quote Originally Posted by larvidchr
    so how can you say with a straight face we are loosing.
    May 4, 2010
    Are We Losing in Afghanistan?
    By Jed Babbin
    Are we losing Afghanistan to the resurgent Taliban? The facts and figures set out in the 152-page report the Pentagon sent Congress last week compel the conclusion that we are.
    RealClearPolitics - Are We Losing in Afghanistan?

    That we are losing in Afghanistan is no secret Larv. John McCain, several prominent people have said the same thing.
    Last edited by sabang; 01-10-2010 at 01:44 AM.

  8. #33
    Member
    Mr Gribbs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Last Online
    25-01-2013 @ 11:57 PM
    Location
    Harlem
    Posts
    971
    Moderate Muslim is a stupid label, you are either a Muslim or a non Muslims. Islam has clear and precise rules that must be followed to make a person a Muslim, but anyone can claim to be a Muslim. There was one poster on the site who claimed to not follow the violent hadiths, that is heretical. I've met people who didn't follow one rule of Islam but considered themselves a Muslim. I don't get all the apology stuff either, why should Japan have to apologize to China for stuff 99% of Japanese didn't do, it makes no sense for people to be held accountable for things they didn't actually commit.

  9. #34
    Member

    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Last Online
    10-08-2011 @ 09:34 PM
    Posts
    161
    I do so very much love the all-or-nothing approach people like Mr Gribbs attach to Muslims. It is quite hypocritical, really.
    There is more to Islam than the plain \'dos and don\'ts\' but it seems you hold others to a higher level of expectations and deeds than yourself.

    Have you partaken in demonstrations for what you believe or against what you don\'t?

    I am a Sikh but I have no beard and short hair, I had premarital sex and I used to smoke. According to you then I cannot be a Sikh.

    The problem with many views expressed here is that Muslims are expected to be either a full-blown shouting maniacal \'death-to-America\' moron or a hot-pants wearing Lindsey Lohan clone

  10. #35
    Member
    Mr Gribbs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Last Online
    25-01-2013 @ 11:57 PM
    Location
    Harlem
    Posts
    971
    Quote Originally Posted by Indian Jones View Post
    I do so very much love the all-or-nothing approach people like Mr Gribbs attach to Muslims. It is quite hypocritical, really.
    There is more to Islam than the plain \'dos and don\'ts\' but it seems you hold others to a higher level of expectations and deeds than yourself.

    Have you partaken in demonstrations for what you believe or against what you don\'t?

    I am a Sikh but I have no beard and short hair, I had premarital sex and I used to smoke. According to you then I cannot be a Sikh.

    The problem with many views expressed here is that Muslims are expected to be either a full-blown shouting maniacal \'death-to-America\' moron or a hot-pants wearing Lindsey Lohan clone
    What is the all or nothing approach? Islam commands followers pray five times a day, if you pray once a month are you a Muslim? Is there multiple Qurans, the moderate Quran, the extremist Quran, the Quran for beginners? No, there is one! You have little understanding of Islam, there are consensus's reached on subjects through evidence in the Quran and Sunnah, the Muslim can't create his own little version of Islam. There are difference amongst Muslims in culture and stuff like that, but all Muslims have to pray 5 times a day, fast if they can during Ramadan, belief in qadar, etc. That is Islam, it has its books, its pillars, its beliefs, etc. Sikhism and Islam are completely different religions, so your comparison is invalid. I'm not holding anyone to higher standard then myself, I'm stating Islam has its every day actions a person most perform to be a Muslim, it doesn't have nothing to do with being a certain ethnicity, having a beard, having a "Muslim name," eating kebabs, etc. There are people from Pakistan named Abdul Rahman who never prayed and is in the business of drug dealing who may identify as a Muslim though.....

  11. #36
    Member

    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Last Online
    10-08-2011 @ 09:34 PM
    Posts
    161
    Yes, if you pray once a month you are still a Muslim. We have many Muslims in my company. Some pray, others do not. The ones that do, do not think that the ones who do not are not Muslim. Where do you get your ideas from?

    I find this is where your problem stems from:
    \"Sikhism and Islam are completely different religions, so your comparison is invalid\"

    Yes, they are. Having said that, the point I was illustrating is that all religions lay down a path to follow, rituals to adhere to. You seem to think that Muslims cease to be Muslims if they don\'t follow every little detail every day.

    That is hypocrisy

  12. #37
    Member
    Mr Gribbs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Last Online
    25-01-2013 @ 11:57 PM
    Location
    Harlem
    Posts
    971
    Quote Originally Posted by Indian Jones View Post
    Yes, if you pray once a month you are still a Muslim. We have many Muslims in my company. Some pray, others do not. The ones that do, do not think that the ones who do not are not Muslim. Where do you get your ideas from?

    I find this is where your problem stems from:
    \"Sikhism and Islam are completely different religions, so your comparison is invalid\"

    Yes, they are. Having said that, the point I was illustrating is that all religions lay down a path to follow, rituals to adhere to. You seem to think that Muslims cease to be Muslims if they don\'t follow every little detail every day.

    That is hypocrisy
    No, then they are not a Muslim. Making salat (prayers) 5 times a day is mandatory, if you go a few weeks without making them on a daily basis you're no longer a Muslim, but a kafir (non Muslim) by the standards laid down by the Quran and Sunnah, but your family and friends might think you are.


    Salat (prayer) is either obligatory (wajib) or supererogatory (mandub).
    The most important of prayers are the obligatory prayers performed daily
    five times, and there is consensus among Muslims that a person who denies
    or doubts their wujub is not a Muslim, even if he recites the shahadah,
    for these prayers are among the 'pillars' (arkan) of Islam. They are the
    established necessity of the faith (al-Din) that doesn't need any
    ijtihad or study, taqlid.
    Prayer (Salat), According to Five Islamic Schools of Law

  13. #38
    Member

    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Last Online
    10-08-2011 @ 09:34 PM
    Posts
    161
    You are quite funny, and again place different standards on those you seemingly dislike.

    Again, you are telling me that I am not a Sikh because I wear my hair short and my religion tells me that I should not cut it?

    Are all your arguments so black and white? Do you not know that there are so many exceptions allowed by the Koran?

    Perhaps it would be an idea for you to speak to an imam to get a clearer picture because simply cutting and pasting doesn\'t allow you to think constructively

    I hope you follow your religion, if you have one, as rigorously as you expect others to with theirs

  14. #39
    Member

    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Last Online
    10-08-2011 @ 09:34 PM
    Posts
    161
    Here is a good cut and paste for you:

    There are also dispensations from some or all of the prescribed actions for those who are physically unable to complete them. The prescribed words of the prayer remain obligatory.

    \"Salah is prescribed at five periods of the day as part of tradition, which are measured according to the movement of the sun. These are: near dawn (fajr), just after the sun\'s noon (dhuhr), in the afternoon (asr), just after sunset (maghrib) and around nightfall (isha\'a). Under some circumstances prayers can be shortened or combined (according to prescribed procedures). Prayers can be skipped when there is a compelling reason, but they should be made up later.\"

    From Wiki. In modern living not many Muslims pray five times a day every, and they are certainly NOT thrown out of Islam.


    I\'m not quite sure why I am defending Islam. Perhaps it is because I find it difficult to fathom ignorance

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •