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  1. #101
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    oh for fuks sake no plane was flown into WTC7 how many fuking times do I have to repeat it.

    did u see all the smoke ? that means.... oxygen starvation, poor fuel air ratio, less heat.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by terry57 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mc2 View Post
    I couldn't help but notice, the posters that are convinced of the official explanation not only know the least about what happened but stubbornly cling on to their ignorant viewpoint.
    Yes but aren't you doing the same ?
    Not really. I have researched a fair bit into 911, on the other hand, most posters don't even realise there was a 3rd building that went down.

    Yet like the good sheep they are, go along with the official stories like braindead zombies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mc2 View Post
    Yet like the good sheep they are, go along with the official stories like braindead zombies.
    Your whole "conspiracy" rests upon WTC7, the 6.5 seconds video of a collapse which took about 18 seconds. It's pretty clear the collapse didn't happen as you'd want to describe it.
    Look carefully at the post collapse pics and see how 10 floors of the northwest corner were still standing. and the collapse fell towards the southeast.

    If you whole theory rest upon that evidence you've got to admit even with half a brain the evidence is mighty thin supporting a controlled demolition.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mc2
    oh for fuks sake no plane was flown into WTC7 how many fuking times do I have to repeat it.
    We all know that. How many times do I have to repeat that this is not the issue?

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by mc2 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by terry57 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mc2 View Post
    I couldn't help but notice, the posters that are convinced of the official explanation not only know the least about what happened but stubbornly cling on to their ignorant viewpoint.
    Yes but aren't you doing the same ?
    Not really. I have researched a fair bit into 911, on the other hand, most posters don't even realise there was a 3rd building that went down.

    Yet like the good sheep they are, go along with the official stories like braindead zombies.
    Very true and shows the sad state of affairs the US in. A work friend of mine was really embarrassed to find out there was a 3rd building in his country that collapsed. This has to be the 5th person out the the 8 US friends i have!
    You bullied, you laughed, you lied, you lost!

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by mc2 View Post
    ...Then the other countless others who swear that a jetliner caused WTC7 to fall yet in fact it was not hit by a jet. One poster even suggested that thousands of gallons of jet fuel splashed onto WTC7 and caused it to fall...
    No airliner has ever entered an office block, at that relative height with a margin of error, designed and intending to cause maximum damage. We know the scum did not expect the towers to collapse, so it was indeed cause for Muslim celebration that Allah got a bonus, and I for one hope he chokes on it.

    So, no plane flew into WTC7, yet the loss of WTC7 was brought about by the nearby carnage caused by one. Could that happen without ground assistance? Some say no and most say yes, because guess what, it did!

    We know that fires can leap great distances across roads and rivers. But as the conditions applying to this specific explosion/fire/local trauma are unique, the best we can work with are current knowledge and models which are unlikely to be precise. Meanwhile, any of these models can be used (and abused) in concert with 'expert opinion' to arbitrarily weigh conditions and realtime events, to reach a baseless conclusion.

    I wonder how many 911 'truthers' subscribe to the 'moon landing hoax', and are also proud owners of von Daniken.

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butterfly View Post
    ...meanwhile the elite are laughing all the way to the bank,
    Eat your heart out!

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jesus Jones
    Very true and shows the sad state of affairs the US in. A work friend of mine was really embarrassed to find out there was a 3rd building in his country that collapsed. This has to be the 5th person out the the 8 US friends i have!
    More unassailable logic. Five friends are ignorant of the facts so the argument is proven. Do you understand the meaning of fallacy?

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by keda View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mc2 View Post
    ...Then the other countless others who swear that a jetliner caused WTC7 to fall yet in fact it was not hit by a jet. One poster even suggested that thousands of gallons of jet fuel splashed onto WTC7 and caused it to fall...
    No airliner has ever entered an office block, at that relative height with a margin of error, designed and intending to cause maximum damage. We know the scum did not expect the towers to collapse, so it was indeed cause for Muslim celebration that Allah got a bonus, and I for one hope he chokes on it.

    So, no plane flew into WTC7, yet the loss of WTC7 was brought about by the nearby carnage caused by one. Could that happen without ground assistance? Some say no and most say yes, because guess what, it did!

    We know that fires can leap great distances across roads and rivers. But as the conditions applying to this specific explosion/fire/local trauma are unique, the best we can work with are current knowledge and models which are unlikely to be precise. Meanwhile, any of these models can be used (and abused) in concert with 'expert opinion' to arbitrarily weigh conditions and realtime events, to reach a baseless conclusion.

    I wonder how many 911 'truthers' subscribe to the 'moon landing hoax', and are also proud owners of von Daniken.
    As soon as you mention the landings it just goes to show how naive and ignorant you are, and unable to think for yourself.

    Folks who come out with that crap are like the yuppies from the 80s, they wan't to be a part of the elite, are think they are. But in reality the elite dislike you even more for brown nosing their ways.

    Regardless, there are enough people that want a proper investigation. Including victims, scientists and plenty of governents officials. But plenty that have benefited from this want to keep it and open and shut case.

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    Quote Originally Posted by beazalbob69 View Post
    I wish more Americans would open their eyes and see what is happening to our country. It seems like Americans will believe anything the corrupt crimnal goverment tells them. This goes soooooo much deeper than the WTC it is scary to even contemplate. We are voluntarily giving our freedom away....no I am sorry our freedom is already gone its just that 80% of this stupid fucking country has'nt realized it yet!
    Yep. The bleeding hearts are screwing it up real well with their self-loathing and belief that they must be apologists to the minorities in the country. Those mainly white, Christina folks who work hard and are tolerant to an extent, are not included. A commentary I watched today, noted the similarity between obama's (and even Jummy Carter's) weak, pansy-a** govt attitudes to those of the Brits after WWI. Thereafter, the Brits lost their sense of strength and turned cowardly. So much so, they missed several years of Hitler building up his power base to attack.
    Today, obama is racing around the world apologising to US enemies and attacking American citizens who want a strong country. Note Arizona and obama's ineffectual stance with illegal immigration (you're racist for calling illegals illegals), his inability to take charge in the Gulf oil spill, his kowtowing to unions, ethnic groups, foreign countries, and now sticking his nose in this mosque mess.
    If Clinton hadn't screwed up foreign relations and security, 9/11 likely would not have happened. America's enemies like a sobby suckface America. They take and take and take. One day, they will attack. Watch, if they do it on obama's watch, he'll impose martial law so he has total control.

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jesus Jones View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by keda View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mc2 View Post
    ...Then the other countless others who swear that a jetliner caused WTC7 to fall yet in fact it was not hit by a jet. One poster even suggested that thousands of gallons of jet fuel splashed onto WTC7 and caused it to fall...
    No airliner has ever entered an office block, at that relative height with a margin of error, designed and intending to cause maximum damage. We know the scum did not expect the towers to collapse, so it was indeed cause for Muslim celebration that Allah got a bonus, and I for one hope he chokes on it.

    So, no plane flew into WTC7, yet the loss of WTC7 was brought about by the nearby carnage caused by one. Could that happen without ground assistance? Some say no and most say yes, because guess what, it did!

    We know that fires can leap great distances across roads and rivers. But as the conditions applying to this specific explosion/fire/local trauma are unique, the best we can work with are current knowledge and models which are unlikely to be precise. Meanwhile, any of these models can be used (and abused) in concert with 'expert opinion' to arbitrarily weigh conditions and realtime events, to reach a baseless conclusion.

    I wonder how many 911 'truthers' subscribe to the 'moon landing hoax', and are also proud owners of von Daniken.
    As soon as you mention the landings it just goes to show how naive and ignorant you are, and unable to think for yourself.

    Folks who come out with that crap are like the yuppies from the 80s, they wan't to be a part of the elite, are think they are. But in reality the elite dislike you even more for brown nosing their ways.

    Regardless, there are enough people that want a proper investigation. Including victims, scientists and plenty of governents officials. But plenty that have benefited from this want to keep it and open and shut case.
    What landings? Hello, anyone there...?

    Never mind, keep it up, you're doing great in persuading yourself with absurdities.

    But what landings?

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by beazalbob69 View Post
    I wish more Americans would open their eyes and see what is happening to our country. It seems like Americans will believe anything the corrupt crimnal goverment tells them.
    Right through their mouthpiece mainstreamed, corporate media.


    This goes soooooo much deeper than the WTC it is scary to even contemplate. We are voluntarily giving our freedom away....no I am sorry our freedom is already gone its just that 80% of this stupid fucking country has'nt realized it yet!
    It's all happening at the zoo.
    I do believe it's true.

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by mc2 View Post
    oh for fuks sake no plane was flown into WTC7 how many fuking times do I have to repeat it.
    OK then Mc2, just for an exercise lets go with your theory that the WTC7 was rigged by the US government to collapse killing a shite load of people so the USA could then turn it around and blame the outrage on Osama Bin laden or Saddam.

    That would then galvanize the US people to go get the bad guys without any opposition from protest groups and presumably turn the East into a free fire zone.

    If this was the case I suppose it was an incredible coincidence that the real terrorists just happen to fly there planes into the twin towers and the pentagon at exactly the same time that the WTC7 was rigged to explode by the US Government.

    In my opinion I find it hard to swallow that the US Government could possibly be good enough to pull off such an incident. I mean are you suggesting that someone was sitting near by with his finger on the button waiting for planes to fly into the towers and all of a sudden the planes fronted up. ? SURELY NOT.

    Of course not, the conspiracy theorists are not good at common sense but very good at dreaming up wild stories much along the vain of Roswell..
    I believe there are higher beings in the universe but did they crash there Volkswagen at Roswell.? I suggest not

    The only facts we have are that terrorists did indeed fly planes into the twin towers, to deny this one would have to be a complete wanker not worthy of being involved in this debate.

    It is feasible and possible WTC7 was bought down in the ensuing chaos.

    It is speculation only it was bought down by the US Government much the same as Elvis lives and is flipping burgers in Mongolia somewhere.

    Some observations of mine on structural steel collapse. Ive never attended a high rise tower fire but have been to hundreds of unit and large factory fires where I've witnessed first hand the after math of quick burning high temperate fuel laden offices where the steel supporting beams has totally lost there structural strength at a certain temperature and turned into spaghetti resulting in total building collapse.

    If there is no life involvement we never risk attempting entry once we spot signs of bending or weakening in the supporting beams. Insurance will pay to rebuild but our men can never be bought back.

    The deciding factor in structural steel collapse is temperature and whether or not the beams are covered by flame retardant. The Firefighters at the towers where dead men walking and you suggest the government done this by rigging WTC7. Highly unlikely.

    Its been suggested in documentaries that the flame retardant in the collapsed building where sub standard. If this is true it could offer up a legitimate argument as to why they collapsed so quickly compared with other tower fires in other parts of the world.

    Sorry mate, but I'm still not convinced your theories hold water but your entitled to your opinion.

    Cheers

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by terry57 View Post
    OK then Mc2, just for an exercise lets go with your theory that the WTC7 was rigged by the US government to collapse killing a shite load of people so the USA could then turn it around and blame the outrage on Osama Bin laden or Saddam.

    That would then galvanize the US people to go get the bad guys without any opposition from protest groups and presumably turn the East into a free fire zone.

    If this was the case I suppose it was an incredible coincidence that the real terrorists just happen to fly there planes into the twin towers and the pentagon at exactly the same time that the WTC7 was rigged to explode by the US Government.

    In my opinion I find it hard to swallow that the US Government could possibly be good enough to pull off such an incident. I mean are you suggesting that someone was sitting near by with his finger on the button waiting for planes to fly into the towers and all of a sudden the planes fronted up. ? SURELY NOT.

    Of course not, the conspiracy theorists are not good at common sense but very good at dreaming up wild stories much along the vain of Roswell..
    I believe there are higher beings in the universe but did they crash there Volkswagen at Roswell.? I suggest not

    The only facts we have are that terrorists did indeed fly planes into the twin towers, to deny this one would have to be a complete wanker not worthy of being involved in this debate.

    It is feasible and possible WTC7 was bought down in the ensuing chaos.

    It is speculation only it was bought down by the US Government much the same as Elvis lives and is flipping burgers in Mongolia somewhere.

    Some observations of mine on structural steel collapse. Ive never attended a high rise tower fire but have been to hundreds of unit and large factory fires where I've witnessed first hand the after math of quick burning high temperate fuel laden offices where the steel supporting beams has totally lost there structural strength at a certain temperature and turned into spaghetti resulting in total building collapse.

    If there is no life involvement we never risk attempting entry once we spot signs of bending or weakening in the supporting beams. Insurance will pay to rebuild but our men can never be bought back.

    The deciding factor in structural steel collapse is temperature and whether or not the beams are covered by flame retardant. The Firefighters at the towers where dead men walking and you suggest the government done this by rigging WTC7. Highly unlikely.

    Its been suggested in documentaries that the flame retardant in the collapsed building where sub standard. If this is true it could offer up a legitimate argument as to why they collapsed so quickly compared with other tower fires in other parts of the world.

    Sorry mate, but I'm still not convinced your theories hold water but your entitled to your opinion.

    Cheers
    On your first few paragraphs, I think your putting the cart before the horse. I don't know why, who or exactly how. Nor am I willing to speculate on all that, except to say that tonnes of equipment, and at least a small tight team would have needed to pass through or via security over a period of weeks/months. The implications are very very dark, I know. Let them do a public investigation and let them find out. Its worth mentioning it again - the lead investigator for WTC7 doesn't know why it collapsed. This is significant. They need to dig deeper and find out the real reason why WTC7 collapsed, *and then* find out where those breadcrumbs lead.
    Last edited by mc2; 18-08-2010 at 08:47 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mc2 View Post
    On your first few paragraphs, I think your putting the cart before the horse. I don't know why, who or exactly how. Nor am I willing to speculate on all that, except to say that tonnes of equipment, and at least a small tight team would have needed to pass through or via security over a period of weeks/months.

    I'm trying to look at it on your terms and there's no other possible reason the Government would want to bring down WTC7 except to turn public opinion to there side so they could invade the East with support by the American people.

    After all they Foked up badly in Vietnam and learn't a few lessons along the way one would think. Life's a bitch when a country is at war with another country and there own people as well.

    I put to you Mc2, what other possible reason would the US Government want to bring down the WTC7 resulting in horrific loss of life of there own people and possible discovery of there handy work ?

    I'm all ears mate and also very interested in your view on it. You must have one or you would not fight so strongly against other possible scenario's.

    You say yourself it would be a massive operation to actually rig the building to collapse, The professionals also say so. For them to actually do it undetected is simply mind boggling. Never read a story where someone has said they suspected
    a group of people could be up to no good at WTC7.

    Anyway lets here it.

    Ps, I'm off to bed and will check back tomorrow so take your time Eh.

    Good nite.

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by terry57 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mc2 View Post
    On your first few paragraphs, I think your putting the cart before the horse. I don't know why, who or exactly how. Nor am I willing to speculate on all that, except to say that tonnes of equipment, and at least a small tight team would have needed to pass through or via security over a period of weeks/months.

    I'm trying to look at it on your terms and there's no other possible reason the Government would want to bring down WTC7 except to turn public opinion to there side so they could invade the East with support by the American people.

    After all they Foked up badly in Vietnam and learn't a few lessons along the way one would think. Life's a bitch when a country is at war with another country and there own people as well.

    I put to you Mc2, what other possible reason would the US Government want to bring down the WTC7 resulting in horrific loss of life of there own people and possible discovery of there handy work ?

    I'm all ears mate and also very interested in your view on it. You must have one or you would not fight so strongly against other possible scenario's.

    You say yourself it would be a massive operation to actually rig the building to collapse, The professionals also say so. For them to actually do it undetected is simply mind boggling. Never read a story where someone has said they suspected
    a group of people could be up to no good at WTC7.

    Anyway lets here it.

    Ps, I'm off to bed and will check back tomorrow so take your time Eh.

    Good nite.


    One can only guess the motives. Some have speculated to kickstart a new era of imperialism, others say to push forward the patriot act, other say a pretext for oil, who knows. Once we find out the real reason the building fell, we can find out the motives.

    I dont necessarily think "the goverment" were involved. Lets say it was a demolition. In that case, I think a very tight, small and extremely powerful circle of men were responsible, howerv that is just a guess.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mc2 View Post
    I dont necessarily think "the goverment" were involved. Lets say it was a demolition. In that case, I think a very tight, small and extremely powerful circle of men were responsible, howerv that is just a guess.
    You don't need to guess if you study all the available info. Especially how WTC7 came down.
    It didn't free fall, it took 18 second to collapse not 6.5 second and the clipped video suggests.
    Fires burned out of control for 6 hours.
    Heat and fire does indeed weaken stressed steel structure.
    Many witnesses at the scene attest to the fact that the building was indeed showing visible signs of buckling.
    The building didn't fall into it's own footprint. The collapse started from the top and the southeast side went and the rest followed.

    You don't have to guess about any of that. They are facts which are as plain as the nose on your face.
    What isn't really clear is why anyone would want to deliberately mislead people into thinking it was a controlled demolition.
    Any guesses?

    You want real conspiracy, take a look at the Federal Reserve and the IRS. That's damning stuff if there ever was any. Clear as the nose on your face, why isn't everyone screaming about this massive hijacking of the US monetary system?
    That's what you should focusing on.
    I'm sure the government loves these other distractions to keep the sheople running around in circles unaware of who really has their hand in their pocket, while exerting subtle and persistent terror.
    Try thinking for yourself.

    The government was indeed partly responsible for 9/11. The Islamist terrorists had declared the WTC a target long before, yet 8 years of the Clinton administration systematically clipped the wings of national security and defense. That's a fact, you don't have to guess about it.
    Prior to 9/11 security at airports was terrible. Many people were calling for something to be done.
    9/11 could have been prevented. That's my reasonable guess.

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    Bumpety bump, quite a bit of stuff on WTC7 here-

    https://teakdoor.com/us-domestic-issu...-that-day.html

    I think WTC7 was basically an insurance job, with a few useful side benefits thrown in (if you look at some of the embarassing documents & agencies located there.

    And I've still heard no remotely adequate explanation of why the highly suspicious options trading in the days before 911 was ever properly investigated, or the names of the actual beneficiaries released.

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    How about the Greek Orthodox Church? Was there a conspiracy there, too?

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    That's been packaged in bureaucratic knots over the past 9 years, and a firewal of dead ends for good measure. Almost as bad as the Christians, that lot.

    If it were a mosque, the authorities would have coughed up compo and built a tunnel through the paperwork to have it up in no time at all.

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    ^ It's fortunate the mosque melee is happening. Gives the church effort a boost.

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    What About the Ground Zero Church?

    The Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America accused New York officials on Tuesday of turning their backs on the reconstruction of the only church destroyed in the Sept. 11 attacks, while the controversial mosque near Ground Zero moves forward.

    The sidelined project is the St. Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church, a tiny, four-story building destroyed in 2001 when one of the World Trade Center towers fell on top of it. Nobody from the church was hurt in the attack, but the congregation has for the past eight years been trying to rebuild its house of worship.

    While the mosque project cleared red tape earlier this month, negotiations between the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey and the church stalled last year -- and will not be revived, according to government officials. Though the particulars of the two projects are completely different and on the surface unrelated, the church and its supporters see a disconnect in the way the proposals have been handled.

    An archdiocese official said Tuesday that the situation has created "consternation" for those still struggling to jump-start talks over the church.

    "We have people that are saying, why isn't our church being rebuilt and why is there ... such concern for people of the mosque?" Father Alex Karloutsos, assistant to the archbishop, told FoxNews.com. He said "religious freedom" would allow a place of worship for any denomination to be built, but accused officials with the Port Authority of making no effort to help move the congregation's project along.

    "Unfortunately, they have just been silent -- dead silent, actually," said Karloutsos, whose father was ordained at St. Nicholas. "They just simply forgot about the church."

    The Port Authority and the church announced a deal in July 2008 under which the Port Authority would grant land and up to $20 million to help rebuild it in a new location -- in addition, the authority was willing to pay up to $40 million to construct a bomb-proof platform underneath.

    Within a year, the deal fell through and talks ended. Port Authority officials told Fox News that the deal is dead.

    The archdiocese and Port Authority offer sharply conflicting accounts of where things went wrong. The Port Authority has previously claimed the church was making additional demands -- like wanting the $20 million up front and wanting to review plans for the surrounding area. They say the church can still proceed on its own if it wishes.

    "The church continues to have the right to rebuild at their original site, and we will pay fair market value for the underground space beneath that building," a spokesperson with the Port Authority told Fox News.

    But Karloutsos called the Port Authority's claims "propaganda" and said the church has complied with all conditions. He said the government should honor agreements that date back to 2004, under former New York Gov. George Pataki.

    Pataki, speaking with Fox News on Tuesday, agreed that the church should be rebuilt.

    "I don't understand it," Pataki said. "Why the Port Authority now has so far put roadblocks in the way of its reconstruction is beyond me. It's not the right thing to do."

    George Demos, a Republican candidate for New York's 1st Congressional District, has also drawn attention to the church negotiations. He released a written statement last week calling the Port Authority "disingenuous and disrespectful" for claiming the church project could go forward.

    "For the last year, the Port Authority has refused to meet with church officials and is now reneging on its commitment to rebuild the church," Demos said.

    Demos said the stalled church plans are an "outrage," considering New York City's Landmarks Preservation Committee vote in early August to deny historical status protection to the building where the mosque is set to be built, clearing the way for the project to move forward.

    The church project has not attracted the kind of national attention the mosque has. President Obama injected the mosque into the national political conversation when he appeared to endorse the plans at a Ramadan dinner at the White House Friday. The White House later clarified that Obama was supporting the developers' right to build the mosque, not the project itself.

    The president's comments set the stage for mounting criticism from Republicans, who widely oppose the project and now want other Democrats to declare where they stand on what for months was a largely local issue.

    Mayor Michael Bloomberg, who has supported the church as well as the mosque, defended the mosque proposal Tuesday.

    "I think it will add to the diversity of the area," Bloomberg said. As for Obama's comments, he said: "He understands the Constitution and the Bill of Rights as well as anyone."

    FOXNews.com - What About the Ground Zero Church? Archdiocese Says Officials Abandoned Project

    Religious freedom is a just another Western ideal that's routinely exploited to advantage by the master ideology and its nonbelieving hate filled supporters.

    I read recently that the owners of the Statten Island convent have done a u-turn and now refuse to sell the property to the Islamic front that planned to turn it into a mosque.

    Could be they wised up over the controversy given to the repugnant GZM; good for them, because we wouldn't want another Islamic "icon" like the GZM, would we, Imam Rauf!

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    ^right, considering how intolerant, bloodthirsty and spread by the sword that Greek Orthodox church is.
    I'm surprised the port authority hasn't raised an eminent domain issue to seize the property a give it to those friendly peace loving Saudi financed Mosque builders.
    The Saudi's probably own most of lower Manhattan by now anyway. I'd say it's their right to have that offensive old Christian church removed from the scene.

  24. #124
    I am in Jail

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    ^ Pffft. Every religion has blood on its hands. Churches haven't done it in Western nations for ages tho, as I know. Fek, Ground Zero is still a hole; by the time it gets rebuilt, the mozzie terrorists will have the goods to blow it up again, especially if obama continues to weaken US security.

  25. #125
    Thailand Expat
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    I believe that the church thing is just some terms and conditions dispute between the Greek Orthodox diocese and the Port Authority.

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