Health Care Passes

**Norton** · 25-03-2010, 08:05 PM

Wonder if any GOP member has ever heard of Masada?

**barbaro** · 25-03-2010, 11:17 PM

Originally Posted by Norton

Wonder if any GOP member has ever heard of Masada?

I almost went on a hike up Masada, but we had to get up at 4 AM. I have been close to their. Beautiful, different geography, and an interesting part of the world.

**robuzo** · 26-03-2010, 07:13 AM

Larison in American Conservative Magazine; really should read the whole thing:
Eunomia Entitlements Are Never Repealed
Large-scale change naturally provokes anxiety, uncertainty, fear and resistance, which is inevitable and as it should be. It does not follow that the later backlash against large-scale change will be great enough to undo the change. [Bush's 2003] Medicare prescription drug benefit was not passed by large margins in the House, and its eventual passage was the product of some significant arm-twisting, maneuvering and vote-buying. It was also unfunded and therefore incredibly fiscally irresponsible! It was phenomenally bad policy! That doesn’t mean that there has been a groundswell of outraged voters ready to support its repeal. As far as I know, no one on the mainstream right, least of all the editor of the magazine that once championed big-government conservatism, has even proposed repealing it. After all, it is their monstrosity. It has become part of the structure of our unsustainable, disastrous entitlement system, and no politician with any self-preservation instinct would so much as suggest eliminating a benefit that millions of likely voters enjoy receiving.
------
Some of us find the hypocrisy galling. "Big-government conservatism" is exactly what the Bush Administration was about. The average American right-winger is fine with big government as long as big corporations are the beneficiaries. It's what makes it impossible to take their, unlike a conservative such as Larison's, political views seriously.

**dotcom** · 26-03-2010, 11:03 AM

If you will view the below video you will see why the GOP will win the house & senate this fall.

You have assholes like this van hollen accusing the GOP of pouring gasoline of the fire of vandalism - always against dems of course.

The arrogance of left wing lib democrat progressives is breathtaking.

Chris Van Hollen: The Republican Leadership is Pouring Gas on the Flames | Video Cafe

For all we know democrats are smashing windows.

O I forgot - they don't need any proof. Nazi brown shirts.

**slackula** · 26-03-2010, 11:45 AM

Originally Posted by dotcom

For all we know democrats are smashing windows.

Yeah, they're hurling bricks through their own office windows to celebrate HCR passing

**Camel Toe** · 26-03-2010, 12:06 PM

The rightwing rednecks who lose the elections this November might be able to get a gig as extras in the up-coming remake of Deliverance. Question is, who'll be the banjo boy.

**barbaro** · 26-03-2010, 12:21 PM

Amish and Muslims are exempt from the Health Care bill guidelines.

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/...xcused_fr.html

The Senate health care bill just signed contains some exemptions to the "pay-or-play" mandate requiring purchase of Obamacare-approved health insurance or payment of a penalty fine. As Fox News has pointed out, for instance, the Amish are excused from the mandate:

So while most Americans would be required to sign up with insurance companies or government insurance plans, the church would serve as something of an informal insurance plan for the Amish.

Law experts say that kind of exemption withstands scrutiny.

"Here the statute is going to say that people who are conscientiously opposed to paying for health insurance don't have to do it where the conscientious objection arises from religion," said Mark Tushnet a Harvard law professor. "And that's perfectly constitutional."

Apparently, this exemption will apply similarly to believers in Islam, which considers health insurance - and, for that matter, any form of risk insurance - to be haraam (forbidden).

Steve Gilbert of Sweetness & Light calls our attention to the probability that Muslims will also be expempt. According to a March 23 publication on an authoritative Islamic Web site managed by Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid, various fatwas (religious decrees) absolutely forbid Muslim participation in any sort of health care or other risk insurance:

Health insurance is haraam like other types of commercial insurance, because it is based on ambiguity, gambling and riba (usury). This is what is stated in fatwas by the senior scholars.

In Fataawa al-Lajnah al-Daa'imah (15/277) there is a quotation of a statement of the Council of Senior Scholars concerning the prohibition on insurance and why it is haraam:

It says in Fataawa al-Lajnah al-Daa'imah (15/251):

Firstly: Commercial insurance of all types is haraam because it involves ambiguity, riba, uncertainty, gambling and consuming people's wealth unlawfully, and other shar'i

Secondly: It is not permissible for the Muslim to get involved with insurance companies by working in administration or otherwise, because working in them comes under the heading of cooperating in sin and transgression, and Allaah forbids that as He says: "but do not help one another in sin and transgression. And fear Allaah. Verily, Allaah is Severe in punishment"

[al-Maa'idah 5:2]. End quote.

**Boon Mee** · 26-03-2010, 01:19 PM

Rasmussen : 55% Favor Repeal of Health Care Bill

Now that President Obama has signed the legislation into law, most voters want to see it repealed

**Boon Mee** · 27-03-2010, 03:08 PM

Heh...this fiasco of health care reform was supposed to be a Jobs Bill, eh?

... They must have left out the word "Destroy."

As noted in several places, the new health-care bill has already made the cost of employees more expensive and taken away capital that could otherwise have been used to hire workers.
Farm-equipment manufacturer John Deere "said it expects its expenses to rise by around $150 million on an after-tax basis, mainly in the second quarter, as a result of the legislation."
Verizon "told employees in an email Tuesday that Verizon's costs will go up in the near term, pinpointing a tax-subsidy reduction for retiree health benefits."
Heavy-equipment manufacturer Caterpillar "said that its first-quarter earnings will be hit with a $100 million after-tax charge under tax law changes attached to the new health care reform legislation."
AK Steele Holding Corp., "the third largest U.S. steelmaker by sales, said it will record a non-cash charge of about $31 million resulting from the health-care overhaul signed into law by President Barack Obama. The charge will be recorded in the first quarter of 2010."
Valero Energy "will take a $15 million to $20 million charge to second-quarter earnings for the same reason."
Medical-device maker Medtronic "warned that new taxes on its products could force it to lay off a thousand workers."

**slackula** · 27-03-2010, 05:25 PM

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

Rasmussen :

Here's a tip, old bean: If you want to use polling numbers to support your point of view then choosing an organisation like Rasmussen Reports is probably not the best way to go since Scott Rasmussen was a paid consultant on Bush's 2004 campaign.

**slackula** · 27-03-2010, 05:27 PM

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

this fiasco of health care reform was supposed to be a Jobs Bill, eh?

According to your own posts it will create jobs, although they will be in your IRS

**Boon Mee** · 28-03-2010, 08:12 AM

A visual aid regarding ObamaCare. Can you spot the partisan legislation?

Political Math

**MustavaMond** · 28-03-2010, 10:33 AM

This de bunks the IRS Fear Mongering Rumour posted somewhere..

Think Progress IRS Commissioner Debunks GOP Fear-Mongering: We Won’t Audit People To Check Health Insurance Status

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Now that health care reform is law, conservatives have come up with a new line of attack [ bullshit] to scare the American public:
"The IRS will be tracking you down if you don’t purchase health insurance. "Rep. Kevin Brady (R-TX) fueled the scare in a March 18 press release, announcing the findings of a study by Republican Hill staff:

A new analysis by the Joint Economic Committee and the House Ways & Means Committee minority staff estimates up to 16,500 new IRS personnel will be needed to collect, examine and audit new tax information mandated on families and small businesses in the ‘reconciliation’ bill being taken up by the U.S. House of Representatives this weekend.

...This news quickly spread to conservative media outlets, which hyperbolized the claim with statements like: the “IRS will now oversee health control and determine whether you are compliant,” and the IRS will now be responsible “for finding and punishing those who don’t” have “acceptable” health insurance. An article on the Daily Caller published an article headlined “IRS looking to hire thousands of tax agents to enforce health care laws” accompanied by a picture of armed soldiers.

Yesterday during a House Ways and Means Committee hearing,

IRS Commissioner Daniel Shulman made clear that all these claims are nothing but misinformation.

He said that, essentially, Brady’s analysis was premature because the IRS is still figuring out the resources it will need “to implement the tax provisions” in the health care legislation. He also completely refuted the notion that IRS agents would be going after people to see if they have acceptable health care:

REP. RON KIND (D-WI): And IRS agents are not going to go out and auditing taxpayers to verify if they have obtained acceptable health insurance, will they?
[I]SHULMAN: No. … t’s probably worth me being very clear because I think there have been some misconceptions out there.

..The way we envision this working is that HHS, the Department of Health and Human Services, and the exchanges will be working with the insurance companies to determine what is acceptable coverage.
All that will happen with the IRS is similar to a current 1099 where a bank sends IRS a statement that says “here’s the interest” someone owes, and they send it to the taxpayer. We expect to get a simple form — that we won’t look behind — that says this person has acceptable health coverage. There are not going to be any discussions about health coverage with an IRS employee.

Shulman added that the role of the IRS is going to be “the tax portions of this, not the health portions of this,” including helping educate individuals and businesses learn about the tax incentives they qualify for.

**barbaro** · 30-03-2010, 07:40 AM

Will costs increase? If so, on who?

Youth may pay a lot more for health premiums

Costs expected to rise 17 percent once insurance is required

Nam Y. Huh / AP
Nils Higdon, 24, is a self-employed percussionist and music teacher. Higdon and other young Americans may face a 17 percent increase in health insurance premiums beginning in 2014.

View related photos

Health care videos

By CARLA K. JOHNSON

March 29, 2010

CHICAGO - Under the health care overhaul, young adults who buy their own insurance will carry a heavier burden of the medical costs of older Americans — a shift expected to raise insurance premiums for young people when the plan takes full effect.

Beginning in 2014, most Americans will be required to buy insurance or pay a tax penalty. That's when premiums for young adults seeking coverage on the individual market would likely climb by 17 percent on average, or roughly $42 a month, according to an analysis of the plan conducted for The Associated Press. The analysis did not factor in tax credits to help offset the increase.

The higher costs will pinch many people in their 20s and early 30s who are struggling to start or advance their careers at a time when the unemployment rate is at a 26-year high.

Link & Entire: Youth may pay a lot more for health premiums - Health care- msnbc.com

**robuzo** · 30-03-2010, 11:46 AM

Originally Posted by Milkman

Will costs increase? If so, on who?

Youth may pay a lot more for health premiums

Costs expected to rise 17 percent once insurance is required

Nam Y. Huh / AP
Nils Higdon, 24, is a self-employed percussionist and music teacher. Higdon and other young Americans may face a 17 percent increase in health insurance premiums beginning in 2014.

View related photos

Health care videos

By CARLA K. JOHNSON

March 29, 2010

CHICAGO - Under the health care overhaul, young adults who buy their own insurance will carry a heavier burden of the medical costs of older Americans — a shift expected to raise insurance premiums for young people when the plan takes full effect.

Beginning in 2014, most Americans will be required to buy insurance or pay a tax penalty. That's when premiums for young adults seeking coverage on the individual market would likely climb by 17 percent on average, or roughly $42 a month, according to an analysis of the plan conducted for The Associated Press. The analysis did not factor in tax credits to help offset the increase.

The higher costs will pinch many people in their 20s and early 30s who are struggling to start or advance their careers at a time when the unemployment rate is at a 26-year high.

Link & Entire: Youth may pay a lot more for health premiums - Health care- msnbc.com

Young people general don't need more than catastrophic, so how about a public option for that?

Read an asinine piece by Ron Paul this morning, suggesting that this bill is the slippery slope toward the US becoming like the USSR. I suppose if he is right we can use Switzerland, Germany, Japan and Taiwan as our canaries in the coalmine- they've had universal coverage schemes for years, and somehow seem to have managed to remain both capitalist and competitive- I wonder how. . .

**Norton** · 30-03-2010, 11:58 AM

Originally Posted by robuzo

Switzerland, Germany, Japan and Taiwan as our canaries in the coalmine- they've had universal coverage schemes for years, and somehow seem to have managed to remain both capitalist and competitive- I wonder how. . .

This map from last year but now we can paint the US green so as not to be confused with the entire African continent. Note a good number of the so called socialist (commie) countries have universal health care and even they are doing quite well as capitalists.

Blue - single payer health care
Green - Public universal health care through other means
Grey - No universal health care

**Boon Mee** · 03-04-2010, 05:28 AM

We're going to be seeing more of this as time passes...

"I'm not turning anybody away — that would be unethical," Dr. Jack Cassell, 56, a Mount Dora [Florida] urologist and a registered Republican opposed to the health plan, told the Orlando Sentinel on Thursday. "But if they read the sign and turn the other way, so be it."

Poll: OK for doctor to protest health-care bill by shunning Obama voters? - South Florida Sun-Sentinel.com

**lysander** · 03-04-2010, 05:47 AM

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

We're going to be seeing more of this as time passes...

"I'm not turning anybody away — that would be unethical," Dr. Jack Cassell, 56, a Mount Dora [Florida] urologist and a registered Republican opposed to the health plan, told the Orlando Sentinel on Thursday. "But if they read the sign and turn the other way, so be it."

Poll: OK for doctor to protest health-care bill by shunning Obama voters? - South Florida Sun-Sentinel.com

In the UK he'd lose his license. Still, the business of America is business no matter how many of your fellow citizens it kills.

**Camel Toe** · 03-04-2010, 06:36 AM

Petty. That's the thing with redneck republicans, petty no matter what their station. Kinda like Thais who hold top jobs in government and academia, still too proud, stupid and corrupt to function in the 21st Century.

**robuzo** · 03-04-2010, 11:03 AM

Originally Posted by lysander

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

We're going to be seeing more of this as time passes...

"I'm not turning anybody away — that would be unethical," Dr. Jack Cassell, 56, a Mount Dora [Florida] urologist and a registered Republican opposed to the health plan, told the Orlando Sentinel on Thursday. "But if they read the sign and turn the other way, so be it."

Poll: OK for doctor to protest health-care bill by shunning Obama voters? - South Florida Sun-Sentinel.com

In the UK he'd lose his license. Still, the business of America is business no matter how many of your fellow citizens it kills.

The odd thing is, this doc accepts insurance from only one carrier, CIGNA. This won't affect his practice or his patients at all. Just more cowardly blowhard nonsense from the right-wing resentment brigade.

**Boon Mee** · 04-04-2010, 05:40 AM

Hopey Change

CBS poll: Believe it or not, support for ObamaCare still eroding. “Fifty-three percent of Americans say they disapprove of the new reforms, including 39 percent who say they disapprove strongly. In the days before the bill passed the House, 37 percent said they approved and 48 percent disapproved.”

**S Landreth** · 04-04-2010, 05:59 AM

I read something some time ago that sums up some of you Rethugs,………

You didn't get mad when the Supreme Court stopped a legal recount and appointed a President.
You didn't get mad when Cheney allowed energy company officials to dictate energy policy.
You didn't get mad when a covert CIA operative got outed.
You didn't get mad when the Patriot Act got passed.
You didn't get mad when we illegally invaded a country that posed no threat to us.
You didn't get mad when we spent over 600 billion (and counting) on said illegal war.
You didn't get mad when over 10 billion dollars just disappeared in Iraq.
You didn't get mad when you found out we were torturing people.
You didn't get mad when the government was illegally wiretapping Americans.
You didn't get mad when we didn't catch Bin Laden.
You didn't get mad when you saw the horrible conditions at Walter Reed.
You didn't get mad when we let a major US city, New Orleans , drown.
You didn't get mad when we gave a 900 billion tax break to the rich.
You didn't get mad when the deficit hit the trillion dollar mark.
You didn't get mad when the president ignored the clear and timely warning that terrorists were going to hijack planes and fly them into the WTC.
You didn't get mad when the weapons inspectors, who said there were no WMDs, were ignored.
You didn't get mad when hundreds of thousands of people died in Iraq.

You finally got mad when the government decided that people in America deserved the right to see a doctor if they are sick.

Yes, illegal wars, lies, corruption, torture, stealing your tax dollars to make the rich richer, are all okay with you, but helping other Americans... oh hell no.

WTF is it now: http://maruthecrankpot.blogspot.com/2010/03/we-had-eight-years-of-bush-and-cheney.html

**lysander** · 04-04-2010, 06:23 AM

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

Hopey Change

CBS poll: Believe it or not, support for ObamaCare still eroding. “Fifty-three percent of Americans say they disapprove of the new reforms, including 39 percent who say they disapprove strongly. In the days before the bill passed the House, 37 percent said they approved and 48 percent disapproved.”

Let's hope you never have to pay for your own insurance.

**slackula** · 04-04-2010, 09:57 AM

Originally Posted by S Landreth

I read something some time ago that sums up some of you Rethugs,………

My monocle just popped out!

**Boon Mee** · 04-04-2010, 02:54 PM

Originally Posted by slackula

Originally Posted by S Landreth

I read something some time ago that sums up some of you Rethugs,………

My monocle just popped out!

Well dear boy, pop the bloody thing back in and everything will be tickety boo!

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