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  1. #1326
    Pronce. PH said so AGAIN!
    slackula's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boon Mee
    It was a tragedy when Britain instituted socialized medicine after World War II
    Because Brits pay far less but live longer than Americans?

    List of countries by life expectancy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

  2. #1327
    Pronce. PH said so AGAIN!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boon Mee
    Tell that to that to the oldsters who die each year because of the Death Panels.
    There aren't any 'Death Panels' in the NHS. Death panels are the meetings in US insurance companies that decide to stop paying because it will hurt the bottom line too much.

  3. #1328
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    Quote Originally Posted by quimbian corholla View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Boon Mee
    Tell that to that to the oldsters who die each year because of the Death Panels.
    There aren't any 'Death Panels' in the NHS. Death panels are the meetings in US insurance companies that decide to stop paying because it will hurt the bottom line too much.
    Sure there are. It's called limited resources:

    Patients starve and die of thirst on hospital wards - Telegraph

    Telegraph.co.uk - Telegraph online, Daily Telegraph, Sunday Telegraph - TelegraphHealthHealth News
    Oct 6, 2012 - Forty-three hospital patients starved to death last year and 111 died of thirst ... as well as 43 people who starved to death, 287 people were recorded by doctors as ... Ombudsman: Patients suffer from a 'toxic cocktail' in NHS ... the warning signs of malnutrition and ensure that while older people are in their ...

    Happens all the time...

    13,000 died needlessly at 14 worst NHS trusts - Telegraph

    www.telegraph.co.ukHealthHeal Our Hospitals
    Jul 13, 2013 - The needless deaths of thousands of NHS patients will be exposed in a report this week. ... Hospital, where up to 1,200 patients died needlessly, was not a one-off. .... over its handling of the NHS, and particularly, Mr Burnham's record. ... Obese two-year-old has gastric bypass · Secret ban on face veils for .

    NHS patients dying from dehydration in hospitals - Mirror Online

    www.mirror.co.uk/.../uk.../nhs-patients-dying-dehydration-hospitals-178...‎
    Mar 24, 2013 - Thirst is needlessly killing 33 patients a day in British hospitals, a leading ...People get thirsty on London's Tube in the summer and carry a water bottle. ... Northants Coroner Anne Pember recorded a narrative verdict and said changes .... Strictly Come Dancing: Tony Jacklin says he was too old to compete ...

    Need any more there snubbles?

  4. #1329
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    Quote Originally Posted by quimbian corholla
    Because Brits pay far less but live longer than Americans?
    Yes of course Brits live longer they have open access to preventative medicine. America's criminal for profit model that boontard and other repubtards support forces the people into the Emerency room for preventable ailments. The fact is that ER visits are more profitable with preventative medicine. The healthcare model in the US is "why keep'em healthy" because they can make more money off of the sick and dyeing. They do not want preventative medicine. They would lose money.
    Last edited by bsnub; 13-10-2013 at 03:29 PM.

  5. #1330
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    Scandal of neglect in Britain's care homes: NHS survey of 63,000 ...

    Home | Mail OnlineBritains-care-homes-NHS-surve...‎
    Jan 5, 2013 - Scandal of neglect in Britain's care homes: NHS survey of 63,000 ... 76, died from infection caught from dirty needle in French hospital after falling ill on skiing holiday ... 'Many older people are worrying about having enough food to eat, and ...... high school teacher is on paid leave after a student recorded ...

    Nearly 1,200 people have starved to death in NHS hospitals ...

    Home | Mail Onlinepeople-starved-death-NHS-hospit...‎
    Mar 3, 2013 - In 2011, 43 patients starved to death and 291 died in a state of severe ... As many as 1,165 people starved to death in NHS hospitals over the ... The 43-year-old, who had Down's syndrome, was admitted to ... On his death certificate, inanition, a clinical term for starvation, was recorded as the cause of death

    NHS starves 1,165 to death | UK | News | Daily Express

    Express. Home of the Daily and Sunday ExpressNewsUK
    Mar 3, 2013 - AT LEAST 1165 people have starved to death in NHS hospitals over the ... In a statement, the trust said the cases were old and it now had the ... The remainder are those cases where the patient was recorded as being malnourished when they died, ... Still think it's "one of the core values of British society"

  6. #1331
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    This one should really get your attention there snubbs:

    The Ugly Realities Of Socialized Medicine Are Not Going Away ...www.forbes.com/.../the-ugly-realities-of-socialized-medicine-are-not-goi...‎
    Dec 19, 2011 - The National Health Service (NHS) — the centralized public agency that runs ... these new therapies were no better than the old ones — just more expensive. At least in Britain, they thought, everyone has access to basic health care. ... The bodies are usually found in the homes where the people died or in ...

    And then there's this:Death rate 'much higher' in English than US hospitals - NHS Choices

    www.nhs.uk/.../death-risk-much-higher-in-English-than-US-hospitals.asp...‎
    Sep 12, 2013 - These measures allow NHS hospitals to be compared with each ... a patient in the average NHS hospital was still 45% more likely to die in ...

  7. #1332
    Pronce. PH said so AGAIN!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boon Mee
    And then there's thiseath rate 'much higher' in English than US hospitals - NHS Choices
    You really ought to read your own links...

    However, as Professor Jarman highlights, the amount of money spent doesn't necessarily mean the best outcomes. He reports that the US spends more than twice as much per person on healthcare as the UK and still has lower life expectancy and higher infant mortality rates.
    Around a third of the US population – often the poorest – have no or inadequate healthcare insurance, and so are probably less likely to be covered or go to hospital. Professor Jarman says that if admitted to hospital, these people could be left with a bill they can't pay, which would be a disincentive for poorer people to be admitted.
    Therefore, it's worth noting that the mortality rates presented in the data reflect death rates in hospitals and not among people who die outside hospital. It is possible that the poorer groups in society could fare equally well in the NHS, or even better, than they would do in the US.


    You can't die in a hospital if you can't afford to be in one, and none of your links has any relevance to your claims about "Death Panels". Incompetence? Sure, happens everywhere - ever heard of a little thing called a medical malpractice suit? Limited resources? Yeah, the result of years of politicos meddling with the NHS funding (10 Billion quid on an IT system that they gave up on) and organisational structures.


    Total cost of that axed NHS IT FIASCO to taxpayers: £10.1bn

  8. #1333
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    Oh, there are Death Panels in the US alright.



  9. #1334
    I don't know barbaro's Avatar
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    I'm not casting judgement, but what are opinions on this. I am aware this author Op-Ed may be using this as a trick. If done correctly, these insurance pools would pay off as the young get older.

    OP/ED | 10/10/2013
    Millennials Are Opting Out Of Obamacare Because It's Not Insurance


    By Cathy Reisenwitz

    Experts say that young, healthy people must enroll in ObamaCare’s health exchanges to cover the cost of insuring sicker, older people. It’s a simple math equation: Charge everyone roughly the same rate for access to basically the same product. The people who use it less will subsidize the people who use it more.


    The problem with this plan is that it hoses young, relatively poor people like me right when we least need high bills for services they’re not using. And it helps older, relatively rich people who should be able to afford the care they need.
    If America’s downtrodden and struggling young people are smart, they’ll opt out. Then it’ll be up to the federal government to fine them enough to make up for the shortfall.

    First, let’s look at the math. As Nick Gillespie and Veronique de Rugy have pointed out for Reason magazine, the concept of today’s older generation as impoverished is simply wrong. In fact, today’s seniors are far wealthier than today’s young adults.

    Looking at rates of homeownership, 83% of elderly households own a home. Meanwhile, 36% of millennials are still living under their parents’ roof. Those over 65 years of age have much lower poverty rates than most other demographic groups. Households headed by people 65 or older have 22 times the wealth of households headed by people under 35.

    Not only are many young people either unemployed or underemployed, the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau estimates that people under 40 owe 67% of the roughly $1.4 trillion that Americans owe on school loans. That’s on top of an average of several thousand dollars of credit card debt.

    ObamaCare forces people who can scarcely afford the extra cost to subsidize care for people who absolutely can afford to pay for their own health services.

    In the exchanges, a young person will have to pay an estimated $250 per month for basic insurance. Again, this cost is so high because these premiums are expected to pay for older people’s healthcare costs. These costs now include covering a plethora of expensive drugs, services and procedures thanks to ObamaCare’s requirements for insurance plans.

    Another math lesson seems to be needed here: Insurance is only a good deal when it actually works like insurance. Using insurance to pay for routine care and predictable healthcare needs makes it no longer insurance, but cost pooling.
    Entire: Millennials Are Opting Out Of Obamacare Because It's Not Insurance - Forbes
    ............

  10. #1335
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    Well, as we are all aware, the rollout of Obamacare isn't quite a glorious success. The “Obamascare” has already been experienced by many. The Obama administration’s promise of premium costs “lower than the most optimistic predictions” turning out to be one big lie is bound to make even more consumers resemble Edvard Munch’s “The Scream” as the bills arrive in the mail, so Sen. Cruz makes a decent comparison.

    As usual, Ted Cruz nails it:



    Senator Ted Cruz @SenTedCruz
    #ObamaScare: It's coming…
    1:51 AM - 15 Oct 2013

  11. #1336
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boon Mee
    As usual, Ted Cruz nails it
    Indeed- he has nailed the neo-'republican' party to the cross. He and his willing henchmen at the Traitors & Enemies of America (TEA) party. Err in haste, repent in leisure.

  12. #1337
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    Well, he did say he was going to fundamentally transform America, didn't he?

    'Consider Reducing Your Income by Working Less' to Get Obamacare Subsidy, says SF Chronicle

    Welcome to the new and expanded welfare state. Oh and yes it's true - if you're 62 years old in CA and make $1 over the limit, it'll cost you an additional $12,000 or so.


    We're sure bsnub, sabang + the other card-carrying members of the TDMA are in complete agreement with that, eh?

  13. #1338
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    Ice Cream Plant Closing Due To Obamacare

    An iconic Michiana company is closing.

    Tuesday, FOX28 talked with owners of the Bonnie Doon plant and downtown Mishawaka location. They tell us there are many reasons for the shutdown such as the declining economy and the rise in production costs. But the number one factor? The anticipated cost of the Affordable Care Act.

    Bonnie Doon Ice Cream blames Obamacare for shutdown - Fox 28: South Bend, Elkhart IN News, Weather, Sports




    Way to go, Barry!

  14. #1339
    Thailand Expat Pound Hound's Avatar
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    sorry boon... I don't believe it....

    Quote Originally Posted by Boon Mee
    there are many reasons for the shutdown such as the declining economy and the rise in production costs
    but I am sure its ACA...

    besides its faux news...... do you really think they are "fair and balanced" boon? really? deep down in your heart?

    why isn't ben and jerry's going out of business? they have been giving their employees health benefits for years and years... they must have a bad business model and are blaming it on boogey man barry.... booo friggin hooo

  15. #1340
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pound Hound View Post
    sorry boon... I don't believe it....

    Quote Originally Posted by Boon Mee
    there are many reasons for the shutdown such as the declining economy and the rise in production costs
    but I am sure its ACA...

    besides its faux news...... do you really think they are "fair and balanced" boon? really? deep down in your heart?

    why isn't ben and jerry's going out of business? they have been giving their employees health benefits for years and years... they must have a bad business model and are blaming it on boogey man barry.... booo friggin hooo
    Ben & Jerry's being an extreme left-wing supporter of Obama most probably is the recipient of one of those coveted Obamacare Waivers. You know, the ones our rulers get like Congress and other big-time donors get?

  16. #1341
    Thailand Expat Pound Hound's Avatar
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    ^^^^
    ya boon... I'm sure that must be it...

    it had nothing to do with people not buying their ice cream...

    I thought you righties loved capitalism.... supply and demand my friend...

    and I am sure only people who gave to the presidents re-election fund get waivers....

    did they ever find those WMD's?

  17. #1342
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pound Hound View Post
    ^^^^
    ya boon... I'm sure that must be it...

    it had nothing to do with people not buying their ice cream...

    I thought you righties loved capitalism.... supply and demand my friend...
    While we're on the subject of Obamacare Waviers, what's your opinion on who should be exempted from this fantastic health care scheme?

  18. #1343
    Thailand Expat Pound Hound's Avatar
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    NOBODY

    but I am also in favor of a one-payer system...

    I also believe in a one page tax form that is the exact same for everybody... I don't care how you made your money, every penny should be taxed exactly the same for all people. Except.... the poor... If you make below a certain amount fuck it... you got it hard enough...

  19. #1344
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    How Convenient!

    ObamaCare Exchange Website Also Offers Voter Registration For Some Reason.


    "I'm sorry sir, we see that you registered Republican and voted Republican so that procedure is not available to you"

    Indeed...

  20. #1345
    Guest Member S Landreth's Avatar
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    Rick Perry is still an idiot

    At year's end, Texas will shut down its high-risk insurance pool for some of the state’s sickest residents, pushing participants to find private coverage in the federal health insurance marketplace created under the federal Affordable Care Act. And patient advocates say those participants should focus on making the transition sooner rather than later to ensure that they don't experience a lapse in coverage or lose access to current health care providers and services.

    "Pool policyholders who are in the middle of treatment will especially need to be sure the network offered by their replacement health plan includes their treatment team," Steven Browning, executive director of the Texas Health Insurance Pool, said in an email.

    The high-risk pool is financed mainly by patient premiums and assessments paid by health insurance companies and HMOs, along with some funding from federal grant programs. Since 1998, it has provided high-priced coverage to Texans with pre-existing conditions who can’t find coverage elsewhere. The state has deemed the high-risk pool obsolete, as the Affordable Care Act prohibits insurance companies participating in the federal marketplace, which launched on Oct. 1, from denying coverage to Texans with pre-existing conditions. Gov. Rick Perry signed Senate Bill 1367 in June, scheduling the pool’s abolishment.

    The pool will close Jan. 1, and the 23,000 people currently participating in the pool must sign up for coverage on the insurance exchange by Dec. 15 or find coverage elsewhere to avoid a lapse in care.

    The reason

    Texas’ high risk pool program, which opened in 1998, provides coverage to individuals and families with pre-existing conditions who couldn’t find insurance in the individual health care market. But since the ACA’s exchanges began enrolling beneficiaries, the state deemed the program obsolete, arguing that Texans could find a better deal in the federally-run exchange.

    The shift may help beneficiaries — state health experts project that “people are going to have many more options and many better options in the marketplace ” — but it undermines Gov. Rick Perry’s (R-TX) entire health care philosophy and contradicts the GOP’s claim that states are best suited to take care of their uninsured populations.
    Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.

  21. #1346
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    Heh...so, it looks like more people have applied to live on Mars than have signed up for ObamaCare so far.

    What can that mean?

  22. #1347
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    If this isn't irony personified...

    Kos Diarist Gets ObamaCare Bill: 'What the Hell Kind of Reform Is This?'
    "My wife and I just got our updates from Kaiser telling us what our 2014 rates will be. Her monthly has been $168 this year, mine $150. We have a high deductible. We are generally healthy people who don't go to the doctor often. I barely ever go. The insurance is in case of a major catastrophe.

    Well, now, because of Obamacare, my wife's rate is gong to $302 per month and mine is jumping to $284.

    I am canceling insurance for us and I am not paying any f'ing penalty. What the hell kind of reform is this?

    Oh, ok, if we qualify, we can get some government assistance. Great. So now I have to jump through another hoop to just chisel some of this off. And we don't qualify, anyway, so what's the point?"

    BTW,
    So what if Obama Lied and you can’t keep your plan if you like it.

    So what if Obama Lied and you have to pay more (much more) for an inferior product.

    So what if Obama Lied and you have to pay a much higher deductible.

    So what if you can’t find out what a plan will cost unless you provide your life story.

    So what if you have provide your life story with no expectation of privacy.

    So what if you have provide your life story to criminals that will steal you identity. What could possibly go wrong?

    The Video They Don't Want You To See:


  23. #1348
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    “Obamacare shock: $12,600 deductible, 40 percent co-pay, zero competition”

    Ouch! These are just a few of the sticker-shock surprises that Americans are discovering with the “Affordable Care Act”. It has been posited that the poor performance of the Obamacare sign-up website is intentional, designed to prevent people from discovering how much their health care costs will increase.


    “Obamacare shock: $12,600 deductible, 40 percent co-pay, zero competition” | The Real Revo

    You don't suppose he was telling porkies in this speech do you?


  24. #1349
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    Three straight completely bogus spam posts. Lovely

  25. #1350
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsnub View Post
    Three straight completely bogus spam posts. Lovely
    Truth hurts doesn't it...

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