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Old 23-03-2010, 01:45 AM   #76 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by dotcom View Post
btw - the concensus is the the UK national health sucks bigger tham bambam sucks.
The consensus of who? Those who live in the USA and who know nothing about today's NHS apart from what Glenn and Rush tell them?

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Old 23-03-2010, 02:06 AM   #77 (permalink)
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While you're getting aborted maybe we should go to the Falklands
How on earth do you manage to pull the Falklands into a US abortion debate? Go look up a straw man argument.
It isn't an abortion debate. It's a thread about how the Republicans lost and will keep on losing.

Straw man we covered in high school. It's one of the logical fallacies. I must have picked it up that day FOX News was on the tele at the sports bar.
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Old 23-03-2010, 03:23 AM   #78 (permalink)
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Fox is f**ked! The GOP is fu**ed! We? I don't think so.
Can't disagree with you on the first two... On the THIRD Damn straight you are wrong man.. Another Trillion dollars hung on us over the next ten years......... Anybody thinks that is okay.... Well you either don't live in the US or you have enough money to not need worry about it ... Either way for those us that already work multiple jobs to make it work.. well...We disagree.

You got to look at it from the bright side of life.
The worst President in History spend over a Trillion $$$ for Iraq and Afghanistan. Money spend for a useless cause. For the first time, Americans (might) will realize why they pay taxes.
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Old 23-03-2010, 03:50 AM   #79 (permalink)
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^ And how much is bamboy spending of other people's money? Aww, just a couple of trillion to hire IRS and union workers, set up a socialist system that funds abortions, makes people buy something they don't want...aw, who cares, the rich people will pay.
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Old 23-03-2010, 03:54 AM   #80 (permalink)
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How could anyone in the world take on Republican views. A trillion spent on phat cat bonuses, millions of innocent deaths and it's okay. Health care is not. Boggles the mind.

Even the word conservative has, to me, a deep cognitive reaction: Old, stubborn, boring, selfish, materialistic.
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Old 23-03-2010, 04:26 AM   #81 (permalink)
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^ And how much is bamboy spending of other people's money?
Spending money from Americans for Americans ! The U.S always supports Israel..why not learn from them...instead of only giving to them. There’s nobody in Israel who’s bankrupt like in the United States because of health care. Health care is available readily. Those dumm ASS Republicans might realy learn something from them instead of crawling in their ASS.

Quote:
Aww, just a couple of trillion to hire IRS and union workers, set up a socialist system that funds abortions, makes people buy something they don't want...
Again..Great Idea! The worst President in History would have hired workers in India to do the job .


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aw, who cares, the rich people will pay.
Can you see the tears in my eyes ?
Anyway, Another Great Idea ! George Bush and the rest of the crooks please open your wallet.
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Old 23-03-2010, 06:25 AM   #82 (permalink)
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Here is Ron Paul's take. Then he discusses US bankruptcy and sovereign bankruptcy i the world.

I must ask, what's the alternative? If no gov health care plan, I might not have coverage even if I work full-time.

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Old 23-03-2010, 11:57 AM   #83 (permalink)
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Is this an over-generalization? I think so.

Americans voted for socialism and want socialism, according the Al Sharpton.

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Old 23-03-2010, 12:30 PM   #84 (permalink)
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Good vids. Hey Republicans, learn how to lose!! See yourselves as Tyrannosaurus Rex.
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Old 23-03-2010, 12:51 PM   #85 (permalink)
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Hey Republicans, learn how to lose!!
Better to learn how to win. GOP tactics and platform are proven to be a loser.

Opposing everything, screaming foul and threatening to get even when they lose is not working. Adapt and change or continue to lose. Such is the world of politics.
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Old 23-03-2010, 12:58 PM   #86 (permalink)
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And the world of war tactics; keep up or die.
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Old 23-03-2010, 01:07 PM   #87 (permalink)
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And never underestimate your adversary. Something the GOP (and Hillary Clinton) have been doing ever since the last Presidential campaign.

So now after they lost the HC battle, the tactic is to again oppose. Fight the bill to the bitter end, rally the "people", win a bunch of seats in the mid term elections and overturn the bill. Again, the GOP is underestimating the adversary who will be convincing the people the bill is of value to them. Will the GOP tactic be successful? Time will tell but the mid terms are a long way off and by the time they happen, the people will have moved on to other issues of concern.
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Old 23-03-2010, 03:21 PM   #88 (permalink)
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I've been watching Fox's take on all this (just for a laugh, of course), and the insanity of Hannity and Co truly boggles the mind, as others have said. All this stuff about socialism, totalitarianism, the end-of-the-USA-as-we-know-it stuff is so far removed from reality, you've got to start wondering if these people are suffering from some sort of mass hysterical delusion.

For fuck's sake, the world is not gonna end just because some people can start getting medical treatment without having to sell their daughters to pay for it. Get a grip, republicans. The rest of the world understands that universal healthcare is an important part of being a civilized country, it's time you stopped yelling and frothing at the mouth and started wondering why.
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Old 23-03-2010, 03:29 PM   #89 (permalink)
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^ thanks goodness only 3.0 million people watch FOX news, benbaa.

Anyway,

Please read this article and tell me your opnion.

Do you strongly agree?

Agree, somewhat?

Don't know at this time?

Disagree somewhat?

Strongly disagree?

With this claim on the HC bill being a "Waterloo."

Quote:
Waterloo

March 21st, 2010



Share

Conservatives and Republicans today suffered their most crushing legislative defeat since the 1960s
.


It’s hard to exaggerate the magnitude of the disaster. Conservatives may cheer themselves that they’ll compensate for today’s expected vote with a big win in the November 2010 elections. But:


(1) It’s a good bet that conservatives are over-optimistic about November – by then the economy will have improved and the immediate goodies in the healthcare bill will be reaching key voting blocs.


(2) So what? Legislative majorities come and go. This healthcare bill is forever. A win in November is very poor compensation for this debacle now.
So far, I think a lot of conservatives will agree with me. Now comes the hard lesson:


A huge part of the blame for today’s disaster attaches to conservatives and Republicans ourselves.


At the beginning of this process we made a strategic decision: unlike, say, Democrats in 2001 when President Bush proposed his first tax cut, we would make no deal with the administration. No negotiations, no compromise, nothing. We were going for all the marbles. This would be Obama’s Waterloo – just as healthcare was Clinton’s in 1994.


Only, the hardliners overlooked a few key facts: Obama was elected with 53% of the vote, not Clinton’s 42%. The liberal block within the Democratic congressional caucus is bigger and stronger than it was in 1993-94. And of course the Democrats also remember their history, and also remember the consequences of their 1994 failure.


This time, when we went for all the marbles, we ended with none.
Could a deal have been reached? Who knows? But we do know that the gap between this plan and traditional Republican ideas is not very big. The Obama plan has a broad family resemblance to Mitt Romney’s Massachusetts plan. It builds on ideas developed at the Heritage Foundation in the early 1990s that formed the basis for Republican counter-proposals to Clintoncare in 1993-1994.


Barack Obama badly wanted Republican votes for his plan. Could we have leveraged his desire to align the plan more closely with conservative views? To finance it without redistributive taxes on productive enterprise – without weighing so heavily on small business – without expanding Medicaid? Too late now. They are all the law.


No illusions please: This bill will not be repealed. Even if Republicans scored a 1994 style landslide in November, how many votes could we muster to re-open the “doughnut hole” and charge seniors more for prescription drugs? How many votes to re-allow insurers to rescind policies when they discover a pre-existing condition? How many votes to banish 25 year olds from their parents’ insurance coverage? And even if the votes were there – would President Obama sign such a repeal?
We followed the most radical voices in the party and the movement, and they led us to abject and irreversible defeat.


There were leaders who knew better, who would have liked to deal. But they were trapped. Conservative talkers on Fox and talk radio had whipped the Republican voting base into such a frenzy that deal-making was rendered impossible......
Link: http://www.frumforum.com/waterloo
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Old 23-03-2010, 03:32 PM   #90 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benbaaa View Post
I've been watching Fox's take on all this (just for a laugh, of course), and the insanity of Hannity and Co truly boggles the mind, as others have said. All this stuff about socialism, totalitarianism, the end-of-the-USA-as-we-know-it stuff is so far removed from reality, you've got to start wondering if these people are suffering from some sort of mass hysterical delusion.

For fuck's sake, the world is not gonna end just because some people can start getting medical treatment without having to sell their daughters to pay for it. Get a grip, republicans. The rest of the world understands that universal healthcare is an important part of being a civilized country, it's time you stopped yelling and frothing at the mouth and started wondering why.
Cheers. I could not agree more!! I am sending you a greenie for this. I am so tired of listening to ill informed people who are all emotionally wound up after listening to right wing tv and radio. Ugh!!
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Old 23-03-2010, 03:41 PM   #91 (permalink)
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There was no bipartisanship going on with this bill- what did the republicans think was going to happen? The dems might have lost their "super majority" but they still have a majority, and in the end that was bound to send the bill through.
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Old 23-03-2010, 05:47 PM   #92 (permalink)
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I love it - America to be just like Eruoweenieland. Check out these Lamestream media whores, ABC's Dr. Tim Johnson --- who pushed hard for ObamaCare --- tells ABCNews viewers that under ObamaCare, they "are going to have to change our spending habits. We'll have to stop demanding the latest of everything because we think it's the best." i.e., under socialism, since everyone can't have the best, no one can have the best... except for political elites who, BTW, exempted themselves from ObamaCare.

Socialist Workers Paradise!
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Old 23-03-2010, 05:52 PM   #93 (permalink)
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You thought it couldn't get any more threatening than simply passing ObamaCare? Well it just did.
Top IRS officials have been working with Democrats on Capitol Hill to determine how the agency will enforce President Obama's new health care law. Republican lawmakers estimate the legislation will require the hiring of many thousands of new (and armed) tax enforcement agents.
While it's still not known exactly how many will be hired, here's what's clear: Under the new law, the IRS is required to fine taxpayers thousands of dollars if they do not purchase health insurance. In order for the government to enforce compliance, tax authorities will need information, for the first time, about people's health care. Collecting that data will require more IRS personnel.
A March 18 report from House Ways & Means Committee Republicans estimates the IRS will need to hire between 11,800 and 16,500 new agents to enforce the bill.
We've seen this before: a different movie but a very similar script. This all goes hand in hand with Emperor Obama's scheme to place more and more of the American public under close tax scrutiny.

Critics have slammed the new federal mandate for its harsh consequences (failing to buy health insurance could land you in jail) and have raised constitutional questions about its legality. And they point to the Obama administration's recent efforts to ramp up IRS audits, especially of small businesses, as evidence that the mandate is likely to prove more onerous than previously thought
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Old 23-03-2010, 06:02 PM   #94 (permalink)
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Which reminds me...

Throughout this entire debate it has become increasingly apparent that there is a segment of the US population that's woefully, inadequately, informed on the issue. Utterly ignorant even. In fact there are non-US posters on here that know far more about it than some of the US posters.

The other thing is this farcical, comic-book, outdated and outmoded concept and fear of 'socialism' which, coupled with the above, only seems to compound the ignorance.

The US is wealthy country in which tens of millions of people are uninsured and many others, even those with insurance, are forced into bankruptcy over healthcare issues. It should be a national disgrace yet instead there are idiots flying the banner for the status-quo because they're either: too lazy; too ignorant; too stupid; too selfish and self-centred; too partisan; or just plain old too lazy to know any better.
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Old 23-03-2010, 06:05 PM   #95 (permalink)
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^
So what's yer point? All those thousand, million illegals should get free health care off the sweat of my hard earned scraps, eh?
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Old 23-03-2010, 06:09 PM   #96 (permalink)
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^
So what's yer point? All those thousand, million illegals should get free health care off the sweat of my hard earned scraps, eh?
Quod erat demonstrandum...
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Old 23-03-2010, 06:16 PM   #97 (permalink)
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Old 23-03-2010, 06:41 PM   #98 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AntRobertson
yet instead there are idiots flying the banner for the status-quo because they're either: too lazy; too ignorant; too stupid; too selfish and self-centred; too partisan; or just plain old too lazy to know any better.
Either? Or? They could be all of those things, including lazy twice.
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Old 23-03-2010, 06:46 PM   #99 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AntRobertson
yet instead there are idiots flying the banner for the status-quo because they're either: too lazy; too ignorant; too stupid; too selfish and self-centred; too partisan; or just plain old too lazy to know any better.
Either? Or? They could be all of those things, including lazy twice.
I was too lazy to bother proofing that.
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Old 23-03-2010, 07:16 PM   #100 (permalink)
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There was no good reason to trash the healthcare of 300 million people to accomodate 12 million new users.

Pelosi is a joke.

Maybe we'll use reconciliation to pass amnesty reform? Dem slimeballs.
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