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  1. #26
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    sabang's Avatar
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    I guess you had a similar, sad minority acting the same when Civil Rights and Medicare legislation was passed, sadly-

    Rep. Andre Carson, D-Ind., told a reporter that as he left the Cannon House Office Building with Rep. John Lewis, D-Ga., a leader of the civil rights era, some among the crowd chanted "the N-word, the N-word, 15 times." Both Carson and Lewis are black, and Lewis spokeswoman Brenda Jones also said that it occurred.

    "It was like going into the time machine with John Lewis," said Carson, a large former police officer who said he wasn't frightened but worried about the 70-year-old Lewis, who is twice his age. "He said it reminded him of another time."

    Health bill opponents heckle top Dems - Capitol Hill- msnbc.com

    A real credit to the 'grass roots' Teabag movement h'mm?
    I doubt that will go down well with the average American.
    probes Aliens

  2. #27
    Thailand Expat Jesus Jones's Avatar
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    Benefits select corporate interests that all.

  3. #28
    I don't know barbaro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Humbert View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MustavaMond
    It seems the greedy health " care " for profit insurance industry is what is fucked. About God-Damned time, too.
    Not exactly. This bill, which is a mess, mandates that people without insurance must choose a private health care provider. This will be a windfall for the health care industry without a public option.
    Forgive my ignorance, as I haven't follwed the HRC very closely.

    So, humbert: it's single payer, not public option

    1. will illegals qaulify for this health care (I assume taxpayers will pay)

    2. how many millions will qualify

    3. If I have insurance with my employer co-pay can I choose this private option?

    4. how much will it cost per year?


    Also, if the Senate passes it, then this program, once in existence, can be modified like other programs.
    ............

  4. #29
    I am in Jail Camel Toe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabang View Post

    Health bill opponents heckle top Dems - Capitol Hill- msnbc.com

    A real credit to the 'grass roots' Teabag movement h'mm?
    I doubt that will go down well with the average American.
    Damn!!!!!! 30 years, no progress.

  5. #30
    I don't know barbaro's Avatar
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    Here is a list of Congressmen & women that voted "yes."

    In favor of HR 3590...


    http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2010/roll165.xml

    Ackerman
    Andrews
    Baca
    Baird
    Baldwin
    Bean
    Becerra
    Berkley
    Berman
    Bishop (GA)
    Bishop (NY)
    Blumenauer
    Boccieri
    Boswell
    Boyd
    Brady (PA)
    Braley (IA)
    Brown, Corrine
    Butterfield
    Capps
    Capuano
    Cardoza
    Carnahan
    Carney
    Carson (IN)
    Castor (FL)
    Chu
    Clarke
    Clay
    Cleaver
    Clyburn
    Cohen
    Connolly (VA)
    Conyers
    Cooper
    Costa
    Costello
    Courtney
    Crowley
    Cuellar
    Cummings
    Dahlkemper
    Davis (CA)
    Davis (IL)
    DeFazio
    DeGette
    Delahunt
    DeLauro
    Dicks
    Dingell
    Doggett
    Donnelly (IN)
    Doyle
    Driehaus
    Edwards (MD)
    Ellison
    Ellsworth
    Engel
    Eshoo
    Etheridge
    Farr
    Fattah
    Filner
    Foster
    Frank (MA)
    Fudge
    Garamendi
    Giffords
    Gonzalez
    Gordon (TN)
    Grayson
    Green, Al
    Green, Gene
    Grijalva
    Gutierrez
    Hall (NY)
    Halvorson
    Hare
    Harman
    Hastings (FL)
    Heinrich
    Higgins
    Hill
    Himes
    Hinchey
    Hinojosa
    Hirono
    Hodes
    Holt
    Honda
    Hoyer
    Inslee
    Israel
    Jackson (IL)
    Jackson Lee (TX)
    Johnson (GA)
    Johnson, E. B.
    Kagen
    Kanjorski
    Kaptur
    Kennedy
    Kildee
    Kilpatrick (MI)
    Kilroy
    Kind
    Kirkpatrick (AZ)
    Klein (FL)
    Kosmas
    Kucinich
    Langevin
    Larsen (WA)
    Larson (CT)
    Lee (CA)
    Levin
    Lewis (GA)
    Loebsack
    Lofgren, Zoe
    Lowey
    Luján
    Maffei
    Maloney
    Markey (CO)
    Markey (MA)
    Matsui
    McCarthy (NY)
    McCollum
    McDermott
    McGovern
    McNerney
    Meek (FL)
    Meeks (NY)
    Michaud
    Miller (NC)
    Miller, George
    Mitchell
    Mollohan
    Moore (KS)
    Moore (WI)
    Moran (VA)
    Murphy (CT)
    Murphy (NY)
    Murphy, Patrick
    Nadler (NY)
    Napolitano
    Neal (MA)
    Oberstar
    Obey
    Olver
    Ortiz
    Owens
    Pallone
    Pascrell
    Pastor (AZ)
    Payne
    Pelosi
    Perlmutter
    Perriello
    Peters
    Pingree (ME)
    Polis (CO)
    Pomeroy
    Price (NC)
    Quigley
    Rahall
    Rangel
    Reyes
    Richardson
    Rodriguez
    Rothman (NJ)
    Roybal-Allard
    Ruppersberger
    Rush
    Ryan (OH)
    Salazar
    Sánchez, Linda T.
    Sanchez, Loretta
    Sarbanes
    Schakowsky
    Schauer
    Schiff
    Schrader
    Schwartz
    Scott (GA)
    Scott (VA)
    Serrano
    Sestak
    Shea-Porter
    Sherman
    Sires
    Slaughter
    Smith (WA)
    Snyder
    Speier
    Spratt
    Stark
    Stupak
    Sutton
    Thompson (CA)
    Thompson (MS)
    Tierney
    Titus
    Tonko
    Towns
    Tsongas
    Van Hollen
    Velázquez
    Visclosky
    Walz
    Wasserman Schultz
    Waters
    Watson
    Watt
    Waxman
    Weiner
    Welch
    Wilson (OH)
    Woolsey
    Wu
    Yarmuth

  6. #31
    Thailand Expat Humbert's Avatar
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    <B>Health care bill highlights


    March 22, 2010

    The article I want to post is not appearing after copying. Sorry.

  7. #32
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    A sad day for America. If I were Stupak, I would be so ashamed of myself. He sold out for a piece of paper that has absolutely no face value (like the greenback soon) and that can be over-ruled by stat law or another exec order. You poor, poor, stupid libbie.

    Quote Originally Posted by AjarnJonesy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Camel Toe View Post
    219 to 212
    We are officially F*cked
    Meh, Nov is not far off. Hope you have extra for your tax hike.
    Quote Originally Posted by FailSafe View Post
    It was interesting to see how Democrats (for the most part) voted their conscience
    Funny. Those libbies are in red states aren't they? "Gotta keep my job!"
    Quote Originally Posted by MustavaMond View Post
    Stupak is assured Obama will add signing statement forbidding " National" funding for abortions, ( sorry women, your family planning needs had to be sacrificed .)

    What this means is States will be able to allow funding for abortion .
    Really? Where did you get that info, mindless musty? And it ain't "national" funding, it's "federal". Go back to your cave.

  8. #33
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    Sad that something as fundamentally important to the US as Health Care Reform got tangled up in something so comparitively meaningless as the bladdy abortion debate. "Death panels" all over again. Not enough to stop it though- just the usual populist fearmongering to a vocal, but distinct minority.

  9. #34
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    HC should be a state issue, if it is an issue. This fed overtake is just an expansion of big govt, with power over biz to the govt and bennies to libbie union buds. How nice that Nancy wore SEIU colours again today.

  10. #35
    I am in Jail Camel Toe's Avatar
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    I didn't know you were a Merkin.

  11. #36
    Days Work Done! Norton's Avatar
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    Much shorter list for those voting nay. (Edit, I have just now noticed the link is for the 2009 vote not the current vote.)

    All 177 Republican Congress members except 1, Cao (Louisiana)

    39 Democrats voting no.
    Adler (NJ)
    Altmire
    Baird
    Barrow
    Boccieri
    Boren
    Boucher
    Boyd
    Bright
    Chandler
    Childers
    Davis (AL)
    Davis (TN)
    Edwards
    Gordon
    Griffith
    Herseth Sandlin
    Holden
    Kissell
    Kosmas
    Kratovil
    Kucinich
    Markey
    Marshall
    Massa
    Matheson
    McIntyre
    McMahon
    Melancon
    Minnick
    Murphy
    Nye
    Peterson
    Ross
    Shuler
    Skelton
    Tanner
    Taylor
    Teague

    http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2009/roll887.xml
    Last edited by Norton; 22-03-2010 at 02:35 PM.
    Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.

  12. #37
    I don't know barbaro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon View Post
    HC should be a state issue, if it is an issue. This fed overtake is just an expansion of big govt, with power over biz to the govt and bennies to libbie union buds. How nice that Nancy wore SEIU colours again today.
    Medicare is and has been an fed issue since 1965.

    I am open to your point, Jet, on a state issue.

    I suppose it doesn't matter now, however.

    As Norton stated elsewhere, the HC issue and bill now passed will be "spun" by both sides to convince voters to vote for their party in 8 months.

  13. #38
    I don't know barbaro's Avatar
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    Here's a breakdown (according to this source, on how the HC will be paid for):

    Here's a breakdown of some of the ways health reform would be paid for.
    Where the money will come from

    Increase the Medicare tax on high-income households:

    The reconciliation bill's changes to the Medicare tax represent the largest single revenue raiser in the health reform package.
    The CBO estimates the provision would raise $210 billion over 10 years.
    Currently, the Medicare payroll tax is 2.9% on all wages -- with the worker and his employer each paying 1.45%.
    The reconciliation bill, like the Senate bill, would raise the percentage paid by high-income individuals by 0.9 percentage points, so an individual would pay 2.35% on his wages.
    The reconciliation bill, however, also would subject the investment income of high-income households, such as dividends, interest and rent, to a 3.8% Medicare tax.
    High-income is defined as individuals making more than $200,000 ($250,000 for couples filing jointly).
    The tax would be on the lesser of one's investment income or the amount of modified adjusted gross income above the income threshold.
    In other words, if a couple's total income is $300,000 ($50,000 above the threshold), and they had $40,000 in investment income, the 3.8% tax would apply to the $40,000. If their investment income was $60,000, however, they would only pay the tax on $50,000.


    Tax high-cost medical plans: The new bill still includes an excise tax on insurers offering high-cost health insurance policies.
    But it is considerably weakened from the Senate bill, after objections from unions and others. Fiscal hawks have been arguing for a stronger excise tax since they believe it has the best chance of curbing the growth in health costs, which is a main goal of health reform.
    The idea is that an excise tax would persuade workers and employers to choose lower-cost plans. While technically a tax on insurers, they are expected to pass along those costs to policyholders.
    Once employers spend less money on health care, they will use the money saved to pay workers higher wages, or so the economic theory goes. The workers will then owe income tax on those higher wages, providing revenue to help pay for health reform.
    But the new bill, compared to the Senate bill, raises the thresholds for plans that would be subject to the tax and delays its enactment by five years -- from 2013 to 2018.
    The new thresholds would be $10,200 for singles, up from $8,500 in the Senate bill; and to $27,500 for families, up from $23,000 in the Senate bill. The thresholds would be higher still for retirees and employees in high-risk professions ($11,850 for individuals and $30,950 for families).
    Those thresholds could go up even more by 2018 if health care inflation is higher than expected.
    The CBO estimates the provision would raise $32 billion over 10 years, nearly 80% less than the $149 billion in the Senate bill.


    Penalties for those who don't get coverage: Like the Senate bill, the reconciliation bill would impose a financial penalty on most Americans who don't buy health insurance.

    Come 2015, individuals who choose not to buy insurance would pay the greater of $325 or up to 2% in income ($695 or up to 2.5% in income thereafter).
    Those whose incomes are low enough that they are not required to file a tax return would be exempt from this requirement.
    The CBO estimates this provision would raise $17 billion over 10 years.

    Require employers to pay if they don't provide coverage: Like the Senate bill, the reconciliation bill would assess a penalty on employers with more than 50 workers if they do not provide health insurance coverage and have workers who would qualify for federal subsidies to buy insurance on their own. But the reconciliation bill ups the penalty from $750 per full-time worker to $2,000.
    During an initial transition period, however, companies would only have to pay penalties on some of their employees.
    The CBO estimates this provision would raise $52 billion over 10 years.


    Impose new fees on the health industry:

    The reconciliation bill would impose new fees on health care companies such as drug makers, medical device makers and insurers. The fees would be in exchange for the new business that will come their way as a result of the expected influx of Americans who will obtain health coverage and use more medical services.
    The CBO estimates this provision would raise $107 billion over 10 years.


    Trim various health-related tax breaks: The reconciliation bill would impose an additional 20% penalty for non-health withdrawals from tax-advantaged health savings accounts, up from 10% in the Senate bill.
    It would limit to $2,500 the amount workers may contribute to flexible health spending accounts at work. It would also increase how much the non-elderly and the non-disabled would have to rack up in medical bills before being allowed to deduct expenses above that amount on their federal income tax return.
    Plus, it would make it harder to deduct medical expenses by raising the percentage of adjusted gross income that would have to be matched in health bills before being allowed to deduct any further medical expenses. The floor would be raised to 10% from 7.5% for those under 65.
    These provisions combined would bring in an estimated $29 billion over 10 years.


    Create a new long-term care insurance program: The bill would create the Community Living Assistance Services and Supports Act to help seniors in need of help with daily tasks such as bathing and dressing. Those who enroll in the program would have to pay premiums into the program for five years before being eligible for benefits.

    In the first 10 years, the program it is expected to take in more money than it pays out, which is why the CBO says it would reduce the deficit by $70 billion. But in the second decade and beyond, the program is projected to pay out more than it takes in, and will therefore contribute to the deficit.

    That's why some say that the CLASS Act is a budget gimmick that will not contribute to the potential of health reform to reduce the deficit.

    - CNN's Lisa Desjardins contributed to this report.
    Link & Entire: Health care reform: Where the money will come from - Mar. 20, 2010

  14. #39
    Thailand Expat Jesus Jones's Avatar
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    Kucinich is a traitor... After all the financial support he recieved turns his back on the people that supported him. I wonder if he was bought during the recent trip on Air Force 1.

  15. #40
    Thailand Expat Jesus Jones's Avatar
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    The insurance companies actually helped write this bill. This means they can restrict treatment and actually lower care, and force peolpe that don't have health insurance to take it, and possibly be fined if they don't have protection.

    This bill is a scam. Making people dependent on the system.
    You bullied, you laughed, you lied, you lost!

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norton View Post
    Much shorter list for those voting nay.

    All 177 Republican Congress members except 1, Cao (Louisiana)
    Cao isn't on the yeah list either. He was vehemently opposed to the bill. Where is he?
    Quote Originally Posted by Jesus Jones View Post
    Kucinich is a traitor... After all the financial support he recieved turns his back on the people that supported him. I wonder if he was bought during the recent trip on Air Force 1.
    Suckface, just like Stupak. These folks will soon see what they did, turning against their own principles to feed bamboy's narcissism. Stupak complained about nuisance phone calls before. Wait til tomorrow.

  17. #42
    Days Work Done! Norton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon
    Cao isn't on the yeah list either. He was vehemently opposed to the bill. Where is he?
    Just going by what is in the link. Take a look at it. Republican votes 176 noes, 1 aye.

    Either the clerk of the house is wrong, he changed his mind or you are wrong.
    Last edited by Norton; 22-03-2010 at 02:16 PM.

  18. #43
    Excitable Boy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norton View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon
    Cao isn't on the yeah list either. He was vehemently opposed to the bill. Where is he?
    Just going by what is in the link. Take a look at it. Republican votes 176 noes, 1 aye.

    Either the clerk of the house is wrong, he changed his mind or you are wrong.
    I believe one Republican did not vote- no "aye" votes are reported from them- that must be Cao.
    There he goes. One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die.
    HST

  19. #44
    Days Work Done! Norton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FailSafe
    that must be Cao
    According to the link it was. Republicans in italic.

  20. #45
    Excitable Boy
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    Or maybe not- there is conflicting reporting- this is from the Washington Post:

    The health-care vote, by the numbers


    By Paul Kane
    The House has passed health-care reform, and despite the trials and tribulations along the way, Democrats actually had a slightly wider margin on this vote than on the first go-round on Nov. 7, when the vote was 220-215.
    Here's how the 219-212 vote broke down:
    • 219 Democrats voted for the legislation. That's the exact same number of Democrats who voted yes on Nov. 7, when the House first took up its version of the bill.
    All 178 Republicans voted no. Back in November, only 176 Republicans voted no. On Sunday, Rep. Joseph Cao (R-La.), who previously cast the lone GOP vote in either chamber for any version of the legislation, opposed the bill. The GOP also added to its no tally because, since the November vote, Rep. Parker Griffith (Ala.) switched parties to become a Republican. He initially voted against the bill as a Democrat in November.
    • 34 Democrats voted no, a drop from the 39 who opposed the first vote.
    • Three Democrats who voted yes on Nov. 7 are no longer in office, one having died and two others having retired since that vote. That left just 216 Democrats in office who voted yes Nov. 7.
    • Eight Democrats switched from no to yes: Reps. Brian Baird (Wash.), John Boccieri (Ohio), Allen Boyd (Fla.), Bart Gordon (Tenn.), Suzanne Kosmas (Fla.), Dennis Kucinich (Ohio), Betsy Markey (Colo.), and Scott Murphy (N.Y.).
    • Of those switchers, four were freshman lawmakers facing likely tough re-elections: Boccieri, Kosmas, Markey and Murphy.
    • Five Democrats switched from yes to no: Michael Arcuri (N.Y.), Marion Berry (Ark.), Daniel Lipinski (Ill.), Stephen Lynch (Mass.) and Zack Space (Ohio).
    • Of those switchers, two -- Arcuri and Space -- are from the class of 2006, facing tough reelections.
    • Had the other four Democrats who are no longer in office been here Sunday, and had they voted the same as on Nov. 7, the final tally would have been 222-213.

    http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/....html?wprss=44

  21. #46
    Days Work Done! Norton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FailSafe
    Or maybe not
    Correct, I see now the link I posted is from the 2009 vote. My apologies to all.

    Have at me Jet. I expect a proper thrashing.

  22. #47
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    I honestly don't see what all the healthcare fuss was about. Call me old fashioned, but there's only a handful of things a decent government needs to do for a country:

    a) educate the kids;
    b) stop its citizens hurting each other and stealing stuff;
    c) defend its borders;
    d) take care of people who get sick;
    e) ensure people are generally treated fairly;
    f) measure costs and benefits of policy over the long term, not the short;
    g) punish those who don't play by the rules.

    If a government doesn't do all these things, then what the fuck is it for?

    High time the US signed up.
    The sleep of reason brings forth monsters.

  23. #48
    Member Ghandi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AntRobertson View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by AjarnJonesy View Post
    What you are saying is that America is finally joining the cultured enlightened status of the EU? Just asking...
    What I'm saying is that too this point the US has been the only developed nation in the world to not offer its people comprehensive healthcare, and that is reflected in the fact that America rates poorly on global health indexes.

    They have a system that costs more than any other yet delivers less.
    Actually Ant , you're correct on the first point but US Health care is considered the best and most advanced of anywhere in the world.

    It is just the cost is totally out of whack.

  24. #49
    Days Work Done! Norton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghandi
    US Health care is considered the best and most advanced of anywhere in the world.
    How would you measure "best", Ghandi?

  25. #50
    Member Ghandi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norton View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghandi
    US Health care is considered the best and most advanced of anywhere in the world.
    How would you measure "best", Ghandi?

    Wealthy people , i.e heads of state from other countries travel to USA for technical surgeries like open heart transplants , brain surgery , etc.

    It ain't Bunmungrad they head to.

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