Thread: koran, allah, and all things islam

Originally Posted by the dogcatcher

Middle-East-Info.org - Discrimination Against Women and Child Abuse in Arab states and Iran
Solly Ant can't find it now, it was a few years back but this makes interesting reading about your Arab friends.

Originally Posted by the dogcatcher

Aside from this the Muslims have killed thousands of children in the name of Allah. One more just ain't gonna make a difference. So you don't believe they are capable of such attrocities? I was digging for who you really are, and now I know.
You are a man with his arse burried in the sand, unfortunately your head was inserted in the former before they filled in the hole.

Oh right, so you can't provide any link/evidence to your claim so you'll simply just shift the posts slightly... and then use that to back up your original claim. The one that you couldn't actually substantiate in the first place. Wouldn't it just be a whole lot quicker and simpler to admit you made it up?

I was digging for who you really are, and now I know.

Yes that's right, you've got me: I don't make fallacious claims that can't be supported by evidence to 'prove' my point; tend to think that objective evidence is more compelling than emotive rhetoric; don't support killing for any reason; don't think that all Muslims are terrorists; and don't advocate their genocide as a 'solution'. I am therefore, quite clearly, a 'Mussie/Freedom Hater/Terrorist/Islamic Fundamentalist' myself.

It's that kind of genius 'You're-either-with-us-or-against-us', 'black-n-white', thinking that leads to even more civilians being killed on both sides. Congrats, report me to the FBI or whoever and claim your deserved reward.

Hi Mr Ant

^74^
It's absurd to accept that Islam's explosive expansion across 3 continents was due to its tolerance, with entire nations rushing to fall under its rule.

Originally Posted by crazy dog

The things they were really good at was butchery, deceit and armed expansion.

Not nearly as good as us though.

A conservative estimate puts the total number of brutal deaths in the 20 th century at more than 250 million. Of these, Muslims are responsible for less than 10 million deaths. Christians, or those coming from Christian backgrounds account for more than 200 million of these! The greatest death totals come from World War I (about 20 million, at least 90 % of which were inflicted by “Christians”) and World War II ( 90 million, at least 50% of which were inflicted by “Christians,” the majority of the rest occurring in the Far East). Given this grim history, it appears that we Europeans must all come to grips with the fact that Islamic civilization has actually been incomparably less brutal than Christian civilization. Did the Holocaust of over 6 million Jews occur out of the background of a Muslim Civilization?

Christian Violence in History

Bug: No I am not in the habit, but expect more. If this means yes I am in the habit, then I am in the habit. If it means I have always been in the habit, then that too.

I had never been on a jetski before I came to LoS, so it was hardly a habit. I did go on jetskis after I came to LoS, so in your twisted, reptilian mind it not only became a habit but always was.

I'm trying, but simply cannot fathom your cowardly evasion of logic...need more time, and fortitude.

And here's the thing...... most righteous people from the big 3 (Christian,Muslim Jewish) want to, or choose, to ignore the fact that they are all inter related ...and that many of the same players show up in all three books Bible,Koran,Torah. Abraham,Moses...and yes even Jesus! are all there.
So I guess the question is...who actually keeps the hate going? when in historical reality...all 3 have roots to the same God dogma which has dominated the planet for the past couple of thousand years or so...
The blind ignorant hate...from all sides..in my humble opinion...has to stop first.
But how?????

Originally Posted by crazy dog

Originally Posted by Attilla the Hen

Yet, Islam was the beacon of civilization and tolerance during the middle ages.

Almost a total myth, why do you think the first crusade was called? It was due to continuing Islamic incursions against their Christian neighbors and inequitable treatment of Christians in Jerusalem. The suggestion that Islamic states were tolerant is not true, other religions when they were tolerated were discriminated against and paid higher taxes. Almost all their often boasted about learning came from earlier civilizations.The things they were really good at was butchery, deceit and armed expansion. The worst day in the middle ages was when Constantinople fell to these barbarians.

Rubbish. Read your history.

The reason for the crusades was that after many years of war there was a general peace throughout Europe. Armed men with no war to occupy them were causing trouble. The pope had always wanted to liberate the Holy land which they considered Christian. Thus, the first crusade killed two birds with one stone.

Have a guess what the crusaders did to ALL the inhabitants of Jerusalem when they captured it.

Originally Posted by Attilla the Hen

Yet, Islam was the beacon of civilization and tolerance during the middle ages.
The Western basis for science, philosophy and medicine was from the ancient Greeks. Books that were totally lost to the West.
It was only when copies of these ancient texts were discovered in the Arab lands in Arabic and then translated to Latin, did the West rediscover it's heritage and kicked off the Renaisance.

So, Islam isn't a totally intolerant religion. Yes, you can find violent passages in it, but, just like the Bible, for each violent passage there will be another that contradicts it.

The beginning of the downward spiral of Islam started when the Portuguese discovered sea power. Previously, the middle-east was a cross-roads for goods between Europe and Asia. These goods were taxed and the Islamic countries were rich. They could afford artists, artisans and philosophers.
Once the Portuguese, then later the British and Dutch used sea power to bring goods back from the east, the middle-east lost it's importance as a trade route and became poor and irrelevent.

The base reason why islamic counties are so messed up today is the lack of opportunity and moribund economies. Unemployment is endemic. There is a hopelessness amongst the young people.
Change this and you will see radical islam melt away.
Most people in the world just want a good job, the opportunity to better themselves, have a family and live in peace to get on with their lives. The population of Arabic countries are no different.
Give them prosperity and the fanatics will disappear.

Why don't they have this prosperity? Because they've been let down by their leaders and government.
These are the root causes of radical islam. Addressing this is the answer to eradicating islamic extremism.

Total bullshit. Islam was created in the 6th century and was key in destroying the Persian libraries that contained all the knowledge that you speak of. Islam has always rejected science and intellectual knowledge. The great libraries of Bagdad and many other cities across the middle east where sacked and burned by muslim raiders. Total crap post dude.

Originally Posted by Attilla the Hen

Originally Posted by crazy dog

Originally Posted by Attilla the Hen

Yet, Islam was the beacon of civilization and tolerance during the middle ages.

Almost a total myth, why do you think the first crusade was called? It was due to continuing Islamic incursions against their Christian neighbors and inequitable treatment of Christians in Jerusalem. The suggestion that Islamic states were tolerant is not true, other religions when they were tolerated were discriminated against and paid higher taxes. Almost all their often boasted about learning came from earlier civilizations.The things they were really good at was butchery, deceit and armed expansion. The worst day in the middle ages was when Constantinople fell to these barbarians.

Rubbish. Read your history.

The reason for the crusades was that after many years of war there was a general peace throughout Europe. Armed men with no war to occupy them were causing trouble. The pope had always wanted to liberate the Holy land which they considered Christian. Thus, the first crusade killed two birds with one stone.

Have a guess what the crusaders did to ALL the inhabitants of Jerusalem when they captured it.

Where did you get the idea that the pope called for a crusade because of some sort of fix for unemployed soldiery - a ridiculous notion with no real evidence.It has commonly been accepted that the Pope expected only a few hundred knights (not unemployed soldiers) to answer his call.The popes call to arms was largely in response to byzantine call for aid against the increasing harassment of christian pilgrims by Muslims. Shock horror medieval war was a bloodthirsty business and in this respect the Muslims were just as barbaric as some Christian atrocities.
If you want to read a decent book Thomas Asbridge's the first crusade is a decent account, even if he is a bit of a liberal islamist apologist

Speaking strictly as devils advocate...what about the Moghul empire?
An aggressive ,conquering,entity... much like all of the power brokers of the time in Europe,Mideast,Asia etc.the Vatican right in the middle of it all.
From "Akbar" to "Aurangzeb Alamgir",which includes" Shah Jahan" within that time period, there was tolerance and even some exceptence of alternate belief systems.
Hindhus,Christians,and Jewish philosophers were often invited to Fatepur Sikri for philisophical,metaphysical and other discussions.
In modern days...the intolerance,ignorance...and blind hatred...fed by mass media propaganda...sorry...."news" has got most otherwise decent people...by the old short and curlys !!

The moghul empire was the exception rather than the rule and it was not the middle ages which was what was originally brought up as the mythical golden age of Islam. Akbar the great was an enlightened ruler but many of the others were weak, self indulgent despots. Good job for India that the British arrived and kicked them out.

Originally Posted by keda

Bug: No I am not in the habit, but expect more. If this means yes I am in the habit, then I am in the habit. If it means I have always been in the habit, then that too.

I had never been on a jetski before I came to LoS, so it was hardly a habit. I did go on jetskis after I came to LoS, so in your twisted, reptilian mind it not only became a habit but always was.

I'm trying, but simply cannot fathom your cowardly evasion of logic...need more time, and fortitude.

Err, righto then. Whatever you say. So habit(s) notwithstanding, why the citation? Where's the cut 'n paste from?

^run dream child. We all wish that life was so simple. Ants world easy.,,

Originally Posted by bsnub

^run dream child. We all wish that life was so simple. Ants world easy.,,

I wish that just one of you had the wherewithal to debate on the actual issues rather than attacking the poster and thinking it somehow makes you 'right'.

Looks like neither of us are going to get our wish.

Originally Posted by crazy dog

The moghul empire was the exception rather than the rule and it was not the middle ages which was what was originally brought up as the mythical golden age of Islam. Akbar the great was an enlightened ruler but many of the others were weak, self indulgent despots. Good job for India that the British arrived and kicked them out.

Okay,
(although not quite sure how you kick out someone from their own country)
but then what about the" Moors " 7 or so centuries in Spain and surrounding area,for the times very tolerant,worked in unison with the Jewish population,many of which were/became prosperous bankers.

Originally Posted by Attilla the Hen

Why don't they have this prosperity? Because they've been let down by their leaders and government.
These are the root causes of radical islam. Addressing this is the answer to eradicating islamic extremism.

Thought that had been tried in Iraq? It doesnt seem to have worked from where im sat.

Originally Posted by astasinim

Originally Posted by Attilla the Hen

Why don't they have this prosperity? Because they've been let down by their leaders and government.
These are the root causes of radical islam. Addressing this is the answer to eradicating islamic extremism.

Thought that had been tried in Iraq? It doesnt seem to have worked from where im sat.

Well all the wasted expenditure, corruption, half-completed and abandoned projects notwithstanding... People tend to not be so grateful of any 'aid' that comes at the point of a bomb and occupying foreign force.

It's ambulance at the bottom of the cliff stuff.

Originally Posted by astasinim

On a more serious note though. Its appears to me that any country that has religion as its be all and end all, is on a hiding to nowhere in the modern world.

I agree. Religion has a long and storied history of being a brake on and an impediment to development and progress.

Nations doing things in the name of or being guided by some deity is an anachronism.

And I thought this was amusing too.

The late Ayatollah Khomeini, Iran’s spiritual leader, introduced the death penalty for homosexuality, but bizarrely saw nothing wrong in a man sodomising a very young female, even an infant. This is one of his fatwas.
A man can marry a girl younger than nine years of age, even if the girl is still a baby being breastfed. A man, however, is prohibited from having intercourse with a girl younger than nine, but other sexual acts such as foreplay, rubbing, kissing and sodomy are allowed.

A man having intercourse with a girl younger than nine years of age has not committed a crime, but only an infraction, if the girl is not permanently damaged. If the girl, however, is permanently damaged, the man must provide for her all her life. But this girl will not count as one of the man’s four permanent wives. He also is not permitted to marry the girl’s sister.

^ & ^^^ - Do you have a Link or at least a reference for this?
Incidentally, bestiality is legal in Washington state.

This should close a few corner shops.

This from Dr Sano Koutoub Moustapha, professor of jurisprudence and its principles at the International Islamic University, Malaysia:

Alcohol is considered the mother of all sins and impurities … All in all, Muslims are not allowed to sell or buy or drink or even facilitate the process of selling or buying or transporting alcohol.

Originally Posted by sabang

^ & ^^^ - Do you have a Link or at least a reference for this?
Incidentally, bestiality is legal in Washington state.

Fatwa culture and the juvenile Muslim mind - FEATURES

Sodomise that camel son.

Originally Posted by AntRobertson

Originally Posted by bsnub

^run dream child. We all wish that life was so simple. Ants world easy.,,

I wish that just one of you had the wherewithal to debate on the actual issues rather than attacking the poster and thinking it somehow makes you 'right'.

Looks like neither of us are going to get our wish.

Gonight oh antster. I am pissed and need to sign off. I do laugh and love you mate In a purely straight kinda way. A pure tosser.