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  1. #2526
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    Quote Originally Posted by OckerRocker View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by barbaro
    I disagree with his view more and than before. For example, his take on not having a minimum wage at all.
    Whew. I was afraid you'd like that kind of ridiculous 'I've got mine' thinking
    I've got mine?

    Nope, not me. I don't have anything - and I prefer it that way.

    Your statement about "I've got mine" implies you think you should just give your hard earned wages to the Military-Industrial complex? Lobbyists groups? Special interests? Food stamp frauds?

    Please explain.
    ............

  2. #2527
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    Quote Originally Posted by robuzo View Post
    "Americans can only afford used cars," said Louis Hyman
    ---
    The thing is, the "used cars" available now are not your father's "used cars." Why anyone still feels the need to drive a virgin automobile off a lot- does losing 40% (bare minimum) of what you just spent actually feel that good? When you can buy a two-year-old car that has been meticulously cared for and lose only 15% when you drive it away?

    The problem Americans have is their economy is maturing ahead of them.
    Exactly!! Not only a 2 year old car but a much upgraded car from what you may be able to buy new. I'd say if done right, that if you do some choice things in updating under your ownership you could in essence even recover that 15% by at minimum holding it's value while you still get the usage out of it.

  3. #2528
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    Quote Originally Posted by FloridaBorn View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by robuzo View Post
    "Americans can only afford used cars," said Louis Hyman
    ---
    The thing is, the "used cars" available now are not your father's "used cars." Why anyone still feels the need to drive a virgin automobile off a lot- does losing 40% (bare minimum) of what you just spent actually feel that good? When you can buy a two-year-old car that has been meticulously cared for and lose only 15% when you drive it away?

    The problem Americans have is their economy is maturing ahead of them.
    Exactly!! Not only a 2 year old car but a much upgraded car from what you may be able to buy new. I'd say if done right, that if you do some choice things in updating under your ownership you could in essence even recover that 15% by at minimum holding it's value while you still get the usage out of it.
    I could have always bought a new car, but chose something 2 years old or so.

    The cost of owning, maintaining and operating a vehicle in the US is ridiculous in reality for many and definitely ridiculous based on principle.

    25 years ago my mates were paying car loans. They still pay car loans to this day.

  4. #2529
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    Quote Originally Posted by barbaro View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by OckerRocker View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by barbaro
    I disagree with his view more and than before. For example, his take on not having a minimum wage at all.
    Whew. I was afraid you'd like that kind of ridiculous 'I've got mine' thinking
    I've got mine?

    Nope, not me. I don't have anything - and I prefer it that way.

    Your statement about "I've got mine" implies you think you should just give your hard earned wages to the Military-Industrial complex? Lobbyists groups? Special interests? Food stamp frauds?

    Please explain.
    Au contraire, mon vieux!

    The prevailing thinking in the moneyed class in the US is exactly that - very different from Europe, as an example.
    Wealthy Americans have always threatened to leave and move to a low/no-tax country if they get taxed more or if loopholes are closed - you won't find many of Europe's wealthy class doing that.
    How many wealthy Americans have actually left? Very few, I'd suggest, because tax rates are quite low and benefits high for the wealthy - plus they have a whole political party supporting them and pushing their values.

    I wasn't unhappy about paying top tax rates in Holland, France or Australia - and am not unhappy about paying the highest tax rate here.

    It is what it is.

    Your point 'Military-Industrial complex? Lobbyists groups? Special interests? Food stamp frauds' seems odd - what do you propose?

    How about voting for the party that has as its platform lower funding for the military-industrial complex, neutering lobbying groups and special interest etc....

    Food stamp fraud is simply a matter of applying existing laws

    Again, the two-party system is anathema to a valid and functioning so-called democracy.

    Free yourself from the bondage of the big two . . . Ever looked at the Greens?

    I. DEMOCRACY

    A. Political Reform

    B. Political Participation

    C. Community

    Families and Children
    Alternative Community Service
    D. Free Speech and Media Reform

    E. Foreign Policy

    Peace and Disarmament
    A Real Road to Peace in the Middle East
    Trade
    Human Rights
    Women's Rights
    Puerto Rican Independence
    F. Domestic Security

    G. Demilitarization and Exploration of Space

    II. SOCIAL JUSTICE

    A. Civil Rights and Equal Rights

    Women's Rights
    Racial Discrimination
    Indigenous Peoples
    Justice for Native Hawaiians: Kanaka Maoli
    Sexual Orientation and Gender Identity
    Rights of the Disabled
    Religious Freedom and Secular Equality
    Youth Rights
    GI and Veterans' Rights
    Consumer Protection
    B. Environmental Justice

    C. Economic Justice

    D. Welfare: A Commitment to Ending Poverty

    E. Education and the Arts

    Education
    The Arts
    F. Health Care

    Universal Health Care
    AIDS / HIV
    G. Labor

    H. Criminal Justice

    Alternatives to Incarceration
    Prison Conditions, Prisoner Treatment and Parolees
    Criminal Justice Reform
    I. Population

    J. Immigration / Emigration

    K. Housing and Homelessness

    Renters/Tenants' Rights
    Rent Control
    Preserve and Increase Affordable Housing Supply
    Fair Housing
    Measures to Address Homelessness
    III. ECOLOGICAL SUSTAINABILITY

    A. Climate Change

    Strong International Climate Treaty
    Economic Policy for a Safer Climate
    Repay Our Climate Debt
    More Efficiency and Conservation
    Clean, Green Energy and Jobs
    Clean, Green Agriculture
    B. Energy

    Encourage Conservation and a Significant Decrease in our Energy Consumption, Institute National Energy Efficiency Standards
    Move Decisively to an Energy System Based on Solar, Wind, Geo-Thermal, Marine, and other Cleaner Renewable Energy Sources
    End the Use of Dirty and Dangerous Energy Sources
    Plan for Decentralized, Bio-Regional Electricity Generation and Distribution
    De-Carbonize and Re-Localize the Food System
    Electrify the Transportation Sysrtem
    Requirements for Eneergy Transistion
    C. Nuclear Issues

    D. Transportation

    Pedestrians and Bicyclists
    Mass Treansit
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    E. Zero Waste, Reduce, Reuse, Recycle

    F. Clean Air / Greenhouse Effect / Ozone Depletion

    G. Land Use

    Land Ownership and Property Rights
    Urban Land Use
    Rural Land Use
    Public Land Use
    H. Water

    I. Agriculture

    J. Biological Diversity

    K. Ethical Treatment of Animals

    L. Forestry Practices

    M. Ocean Protection

    IV. ECONOMIC SUSTAINABILITY

    A. Ecological Economics

    B. Measuring Economic Progress - Economic Growth and the Steady-State Economy

    C. Curbing Corporate Power

    D. Livable Income

    E. Fair Taxation

    Cut Taxes for Wage Workers
    Fair Taxes for Corporations and the Wealthy
    Eco-Taxes to Help Save the Planet
    Taxes for a Better, Healthier USA
    F. Local Economic Development

    G. Small Business and the Self-Employed

    H. Work and Job Creation

    I. Banking and Insurance Reform

    Banking Reform
    Monetary Reform (Greening the Dollar)
    Insurance Reform
    Broader Financial Industry Reforms
    J. Pension Reform

    K. Anti-trust Enforcement

    L. Advanced Technology and Defense Conversion

    A peacetime technology-based economy
    Telecommunications
    Open Source Software
    Nanotechnology
    M. National Debt
    http://www.gp.org/committees/platform/2010/index.php

  5. #2530
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    Quote Originally Posted by OckerRocker View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by barbaro View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by OckerRocker View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by barbaro
    I disagree with his view more and than before. For example, his take on not having a minimum wage at all.
    Whew. I was afraid you'd like that kind of ridiculous 'I've got mine' thinking
    I've got mine?

    Nope, not me. I don't have anything - and I prefer it that way.

    Your statement about "I've got mine" implies you think you should just give your hard earned wages to the Military-Industrial complex? Lobbyists groups? Special interests? Food stamp frauds?

    Please explain.
    Your point 'Military-Industrial complex? Lobbyists groups? Special interests? Food stamp frauds' seems odd - what do you propose?

    How about voting for the party that has as its platform lower funding for the military-industrial complex, neutering lobbying groups and special interest etc....
    I have been voting for a party that support this lower funding for the MIC.

    Food stamp fraud is simply a matter of applying existing laws

    Again, the two-party system is anathema to a valid and functioning so-called democracy.

    Free yourself from the bondage of the big two . . . Ever looked at the Greens?
    I am not a (D) or (R) and have been voting 3rd party for 20 years.

    You and I see it the same way, for the most part.

  6. #2531
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    Quote Originally Posted by barbaro
    I am not a (D) or (R) and have been voting 3rd party for 20 years.
    I have new-found respect for you!

  7. #2532
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    Don't worry. The recovery is continuing. We're "running on all cylinders" as the OP suggested.

    Shocking US jobs data impugns recovery, Fed tapering
    Friday's figures are a warning that the US recovery may be losing momentum

    A Job seeker has his resume reviewed during the San Francisco Hirevent job fair at the Hotel Whitmore on July 12, 2011 in San Francisco, California

    The headline unemployment rate fell to 6.3pc but that was only because the labour 'participation rate' plummeted back to a modern-era low of 62.8pc Photo: Getty Images

    The US economy has delivered two minor shocks in a week, prompting concerns that bond tapering by the Federal Reserve may be doing more damage than expected.
    Non-Farm Payrolls data released on Friday shows that the workforce shed 806,000 jobs in April, a stunning drop that cannot plausibly be blamed on the weather. Wage growth and hours worked were both flat and the manufacturing hours per week fell.

    This follows news earlier in the week that the economy to a halt in the first quarter. Growth plummeted to 0.1pc and is now well below the Fed’s “stall speed” indicator. Analysts blamed this on the freezing polar vortex over the winter.

    Yet the jobs data confirm a disturbingly weak picture. The headline unemployment rate fell to 6.3pc but that was only because the labour “participation rate” plummeted back to a modern-era low of 62.8pc, last seen in 1978 when there were far fewer women in the workforce. The rate for males is the lowest ever recorded at 69.1pc.

    The jobs market is highly volatile – and is often revised later – but the data are a warning that the US recovery may be losing momentum. Lakshman Achuthan, from the Economic Cycle Research Institute, said the trend was already weakening long before the cold weather. “We see a failure to launch. We’re decelerating, not accelerating, and that is a big concern,” he said.
    Shocking US jobs data impugns recovery, Fed tapering - Telegraph

  8. #2533
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    Quote Originally Posted by Storekeeper View Post
    "The American economy is the strongest in the world and growing faster than that of any other major industrialized country. It grew at an annual rate of 5.3 percent in the first quarter -- the fastest growth in 2 1/2 years. It has added more than 5.3 million jobs since the summer of 2003, and employment is near an all-time high. The unemployment rate (4.6 percent) is well below the average for each of the past four decades. Mortgage rates remain near historical lows, homeownership remains near a record high, and sales of new and existing homes reached record levels in 2005. Real disposable personal income has risen almost 13 percent since President Bush took office; and core inflation rose just 2.3 percent over the past 12 months. The Dow Jones industrial average has risen from under 7300 in 2002 to above 11,000 for most of this year. Tax revenues are at an all-time high -- and so is total household net worth."

    And that is not the only good thing to be said about the good ole USA. More here:

    Peter Wehner - And Now For Some Good News
    Lol the American economy.

    It's Germany buddy, and it's not even close .

  9. #2534
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    ^ Many could not see the storm coming. People in my family advised me to buy a house (translation: take out a 30 year mortgage) in 2006 and 2007. They were asleep.

    Housing is down again.

    This article and short video with graph shows the combination of 4 reasons why.

    What's wrong with housing?

  10. #2535
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    Wages have been declined since 1970, with the exception of some up-ticks in the 1980s and 1990s (only a couple of years here and there).

    Wages at 1997 levels in general but inflation and higher taxes and fees obviously higher.

    And this shill is promoting.....this argument? I don't buy it.

    Why rising wages could be bad for stocks: Paulsen Matthew J. Belvedere | Thursday, 22 May 2014
    American workers are finally starting to see an increase in their wages, but that may stoke inflation concerns and pressure the markets, said James Paulsen, chief investment strategist at Wells Capital Management. "Eighty percent of the nonsupervisory wage earners have seen their wage inflation accelerating now for more than a year," he said on CNBC's "Squawk Box" on Thursday. "If wage inflation goes up 3 percent that's not all bad. But for investors worried about interest rate pressures, it is bad."
    Entire: Why rising wages could be bad for stocks: Paulsen

  11. #2536
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    Quote Originally Posted by barbaro
    Wages have been declined since 1970, with the exception of some up-ticks in the 1980s and 1990s (only a couple of years here and there).

    Wages at 1997 levels in general but inflation and higher taxes and fees obviously higher.
    You should compare that with the western world, which is going down. Of course it is getting worse. For decades, because us and eur are incompetitive. Very very simple. But US and UK, still, are best of that world and can survive (while euros clearly can't), when those regulations restricting business are erased. Only other way is social security economy reaching 50% of voters and then, then the lights go off.
    Last edited by Exit Strategy; 27-05-2014 at 05:21 PM.

  12. #2537
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exit Strategy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by barbaro
    Wages have been declined since 1970, with the exception of some up-ticks in the 1980s and 1990s (only a couple of years here and there).

    Wages at 1997 levels in general but inflation and higher taxes and fees obviously higher.
    You should compare that with the western world, which is going down. Of course it is getting worse. For decades, because us and eur are incompetitive. Very very simple. But US and UK, still, are best of that world and can survive (while euros clearly can't), when those regulations restricting business are erased. Only other way is social security economy reaching 50% of voters and then, then the lights go off.
    The part in bold will never happen.

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    Housing. Investors caused the brief "recovery" so lauded by the mainstream media. There never was a recovery.

    Declining wages year after year, the expansion of the service sector economy with low paying cash jobs with no security nor benefits.

    People don't take out 30 year mortgages under these circumstances. They are not even able to anyway.

    Yellen Has Scant Power to Relieve U.S. Housing Slowdown
    By Rich Miller and Victoria Stilwell May 28, 2014
    Entire: Yellen Has Scant Power to Relieve U.S. Housing Slowdown - Bloomberg

  14. #2539
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    The GDP contraction and Fed tapering.

    US money slump flashes warnings as economy contracts The US seems caught in a Japan-style trap, endlessly masking the effect by stealing a little extra growth from the future with artificial stimulus The concern is that this recovery may die of old age after five years

    The US economy contracted sharply in the first quarter and bond yields have been falling at the fastest rate since the recession scare two years ago, in signs that bond tapering by the Federal Reserve is biting more than anticipated. The slowdown comes as a key indicator of the US money supply flashes slowdown warnings, though the picture remains murky after extreme weather conditions over the winter. Output fell at an annual rate of 1pc, led by a 7.5pc fall in business spendi
    US money slump flashes warnings as economy contracts - Telegraph

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    the velocity of money. Movement of money. A trickle.

    Don't expect to see this in the MSM.

    The Velocity Of Money In The U.S. Falls To An All-Time Record Low By Michael Snyder, on June 1st, 2014 When an economy is healthy, there is lots of buying and selling and money tends to move around quite rapidly. Unfortunately, the U.S. economy is the exact opposite of that right now. In fact, as I will document below, the velocity of M2 has fallen to an all-time record low. This is a very powerful indicator that we have entered a deflationary era, and the Federal Reserve has been attem
    The Velocity Of Money In The U.S. Falls To An All-Time Record Low

  16. #2541
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    The EU have just announced a negative rate for bank deposits.

    Some say it is to get the Euro moving more quickly therfore increasing it's velocity to warp speed and hence achieve a Lunar orbit.

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    Great News the US unemployment number has reduced to the same as it was prior to the depression.

    Bad news, the number of unemployed reduction eerily matches the number of people who are no longer "assessed" as being "in the labour force".

    God bless America and the fact that English is such a flexible language.

    A tray full of GOLD is not worth a moment in time.

  18. #2543
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    It is a lot better than losing jobs every month. Its a work in progress.

  19. #2544
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    Quote Originally Posted by OhOh View Post
    Great News the US unemployment number has reduced to the same as it was prior to the depression.

    Bad news, the number of unemployed reduction eerily matches the number of people who are no longer "assessed" as being "in the labour force".

    God bless America and the fact that English is such a flexible language.
    And this US unemployment number is the U3 rate, which is skewed to provide a low number.

    If you work at McDonald's 5 hours per week, you are considered "employed" in this definition.

    A better gauge is the "adult employment to population ratio" which is actually very bad.

  20. #2545
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    The answer is to take women out of the workforce.

    Sounds a bit harsh, but I got nothing against women working. I spose what I'm saying is going back to one income families.

    I'm too young to remember it, but remember my parents telling me of not so long ago when families got by nicely on one income. I'm talking 5 kids, mortgage on a nice house and a driving a new car. My Grandparents did this on one plumbers wage, and had a better standard of living than my generation ever will.

    Could you imagine that these days, families not just surviving but thriving and building assets on a single income with 3+ kids?

    The double income family was a trap. Setting up society in a way that we could get away with both parents working full time jobs to get ahead financially. People got used to it, and it became a necessity.

    Thank fuck I opted out of both the debt trap and the 'two people needing to bust a gut full time to survive' trap. It's not overly hard to avoid but most people just roll with it.

    2 things I can't fathom; taking out a 30 years debt on anything, and raising a family in such a way that the kids never see their parents and are left to the care of strangers from an early age, just to fit the status quo. And they wonder why so many kids these days have so many issues. Meh ... just feed em some ritilan she'll be right eh.

  21. #2546
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    Quote Originally Posted by barbaro
    And this US unemployment number is the U3 rate, which is skewed to provide a low number.
    If you work at McDonald's 5 hours per week, you are considered "employed" in this definition.
    A better gauge is the "adult employment to population ratio" which is actually very bad.
    The comparison is consistent with the way its been reported for years. Would you rather be comparing apples to oranges?

  22. #2547
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    Quote Originally Posted by Humbert
    It is a lot better than losing jobs every month. Its a work in progress.
    If you were comparing full time jobs with benefits, as most people had historically, with what is now considered a job I would agree. Unfortunately in most "western" societies those types of jobs are unlikely to be offered currently.

    You haven't commented on the people who allegedly have been wiped from the unemployment figures

  23. #2548
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    This unemployment reminds of crime figures in 'The Wire'. The top brass are so fixated with the numbers, that even if they mean good, all they do is massage numbers to look good. Remember the commissioner cracking the shits when they found 18 bodies boarded up? Then it was all about where the blame was to lay for the surge in figures.

    I dont think its any great conspiracy to fudge numbers. It's just yanky culture. The concept of fair deals and honour have been replaced with lawyers and loop-holes. The unemployment figures are a product of the same phenomena.

  24. #2549
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    Quote Originally Posted by Humbert View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by barbaro
    And this US unemployment number is the U3 rate, which is skewed to provide a low number.
    If you work at McDonald's 5 hours per week, you are considered "employed" in this definition.
    A better gauge is the "adult employment to population ratio" which is actually very bad.
    The comparison is consistent with the way its been reported for years. Would you rather be comparing apples to oranges?
    It's only consistent with the skewed reporting. Govt and media rarely put up the U5 and U6 rates.

  25. #2550
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    Quote Originally Posted by OhOh
    You haven't commented on the people who allegedly have been wiped from the unemployment figures
    There is a large bubble of baby boomers who have elected to retire and start receiving social security benefits early.

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