The Worlds Greatest Empires ?

**RandomChances** · 28-05-2006, 12:23 PM

Well we’ve had the “fall of Rome” so how about "the world greatest Empires". Here’s my choices, feel free to disagree.

Roman
Size:- Large only real failure with the middle east and the pesky Parathions 7/10
Staying power:- About 2000 years if you include the Eastern Empire 8/10
Influence:- Huge influence on Western Europe, less so in the east, where I would say they absorbed much of the culture rather than imposing their own. Largely responsible r the spread of Christianity 9/10
Total 24/30

British
Size:- Largest empire ever 10/10
Staying power:- not very good relatively short lived at it peak only for a hundred years or so 2/10
Influence:- Massive influence on the modern world, Industrial revolution, America, Australia, language, but not enough elapsed time to asses the full impacts 8/10
Total 20/30

Chinese
Size:- Big, taking in well China and a various times, Mongolia, Tibet, Vietnam, Korea 6/10
Staying power:- Well you can trace the Chinese history back for 3000+ years with various dynasties 7/10
Influence:- Huge in Asia, big influence in scientific discoveries, silk, Chinese takeaways ect 7/10
Total 20/30

Alexander the Great (Macadonian)
Size:- Huge a land empire not supposed until the coming of the Mongols 8/10
Staying power:- Died with Alexander 2/10
Influence:- Huge, brought Hellenic culture to the middle east, revolutionised warfare and lead to many successor empires. Probably one of the most famous men ever to have lived 8/10
Total 18/30

Achaemenid Persians
Size :- Large at the time the biggest Empire in the world 7/10
Staying power :- One of the first World Empires can trace it routes back to Sargon around 2000 BC until the fall at the hands of Alexander about 300 BC 7/10
Influence:- At the time huge, but no real staying power, became Hellenised defeat by Alexander, religion lasted until superseded by Islam 3/10
Total 17/30

Greeks
Size:- More a collection of loosely allied city states, than a unified Empire 2/10
Staying power:- A couple of hundred years 3/10
Influence:- Huge, greatly influenced Alexander, and the Romans leading to a spread of Hellenic culture to Europe and the middle east 10/10
Total 15/30

Ottoman
Size:- Middle east, Egypt, Balkans 6/10
Staying power:- About 800 years up until the end of the first world war 5/10
Influence:- An Islamic super power of the middle ages 5/10
Total 16/30

Mongol
Size:- Largest land Empire ever 9/10
Staying power:- Spit after the death of Genghis 2/10
Influence:- Not much real lasting influence in Europe, but lead to Kublai Khan in China and the Mughals in India 5/10
Total 16/30

Other mentions, The Mughal Empire, The Sassanid Empire, The Russian Empire, The Arab Empire. Cases could be made to include any of them, but a mixture of not being assed and not really knowing much about some of them I left them out. There probably some more as well. Purely arbitrary scoring and approximate dates as I can’t be bothers looking them up

**Bob** · 28-05-2006, 02:18 PM

Is this the starting point for a game of Top Trumps ?

**RandomChances** · 28-05-2006, 04:10 PM

Originally Posted by Bob

Is this the starting point for a game of Top Trumps ?

Hmm I had a feeling this may be the wrong audiance for this...

**njdesi** · 29-05-2006, 11:41 PM

I would probably include the Soviet Union also. Probably one of the quickest unraveling of an empire in history. I think only Belarus pays them any attention anymore.

**RDN** · 30-05-2006, 12:26 AM

I think the British Empire deserves a higher rating merely because English is the de facto world language - sorry, Spain, Germany, France, etc, but you know it's true.

And I'm not saying that just because I'm English

No, really I'm not. In fact, it's a bit sad for the British because most Brits have never had to exercise the part of the brain that learns languages because so much of the world speaks English.

Final point, the best English you will ever hear is probably spoken by Indians and the worst is by Lyse Doucette of BBC World News.

**Gerbil** · 30-05-2006, 12:58 AM

Originally Posted by RDN

Final point, the best English you will ever hear is probably spoken by Indians and the worst is by Lyse Doucette of BBC World News.

Sounds like a frog to me with a name like that

**RDN** · 30-05-2006, 01:09 AM

Originally Posted by Gerbil

Originally Posted by RDN

Final point, the best English you will ever hear is probably spoken by Indians and the worst is by Lyse Doucette of BBC World News.

Sounds like a frog to me with a name like that

Nah, Canadian. Much worse.

**Marmite the Dog** · 30-05-2006, 01:11 PM

Originally Posted by RDN

Final point, the best English you will ever hear is probably spoken by Indians and the worst is by Lyse Doucette of BBC World News.

I presume you've never been to India.

The best English I have heard is still the 'old school' lot or the area around Inverness in Scotland (except they can't say 'J' properly. They say Jai rather than jay).

**Sir Burr** · 30-05-2006, 03:50 PM

I would say the most influential empire was the Roman empire, both East and West.
Even though the Germanic tribes were never defeated, they all aspired to the Roman way of life and many infact were Romanized, even as they were fighting the Romans.

Alexander's empire really didn't control territory, only the roads and thorough-fares from place to place. Each defeated city was put under the control of a Satrap who was usually a local who swore fealty to Alexander with a very small contingent of Greek soldiers.

The British empire, though it didn't last long was also influential. Mainly by propagating the English language and Britain's institutions ie. its form of government, legal system and educational system.

Right. As that was my 150th post, I'm off to discover the dark secrets in the Troll forum!

**stroller** · 30-05-2006, 04:14 PM

History isn't one of my strong points, but I think the British Empire peaked around the turn of the 19/20th century, and has been arguably the most influential in recent history.
The political,military and economic strength has steadily declined since, but it's still a financial center on the world stage and an influential power within Europe.

I am a bit of an arty fellow, so one the greatest "empires" in cultural terms has to be India. I was very impressed and excited on my shortish journey across Nothern India, specially by the art and architecture of Rajastan.

**Butterfly** · 30-05-2006, 07:06 PM

What about the Spanish, French ?

**RDN** · 30-05-2006, 08:13 PM

Originally Posted by Marmite the Dog

Originally Posted by RDN

Final point, the best English you will ever hear is probably spoken by Indians and the worst is by Lyse Doucette of BBC World News.

I presume you've never been to India...

Yes I have, which is why I made the point.

Originally Posted by Sir Burr

....As that was my 150th post, I'm off to discover the dark secrets in the Troll forum!

Was it worth it?

**Mhz** · 30-05-2006, 08:20 PM

What about the mongols??

Was it an empire or Genghis Khan was full of shit man??

**barbaro** · 30-05-2006, 08:39 PM

^ The Mongols rocked. Pretty tough dudes.

France: I don't think so

Spain: the same.

When does colonization become an empire?

It does. I just don't know the criteria.

**Mhz** · 30-05-2006, 08:41 PM

Well I know that Afghanistan was conqured (sp?) by Genghis Khan and thats how we HAZARAS came into being.

**stroller** · 30-05-2006, 08:47 PM

More details, please.

With pics of yourself.

**Mhz** · 30-05-2006, 08:55 PM

Now Strolly I aint like Genghis Khan but alot of Thais think Iam Thai when I walk in to any Seven Eleven.One boy at the university asked me was i from the Phillipines.

All of them get shocked to know that iam from Pakistan.

I think this book might help.

**RandomChances** · 01-06-2006, 01:59 PM

Originally Posted by Sir Burr

Alexander's empire really didn't control territory, only the roads and thorough-fares from place to place. Each defeated city was put under the control of a Satrap who was usually a local who swore fealty to Alexander with a very small contingent of Greek soldiers.

I'm not really sure I agree with you there. I think his level of control was just a good as the people he replaced, mainly because he laft most of the local goverment in place. His "sucsessors" also founded the poltomic (sp) empire in egypt, the selecuid empire in the middle east and the one I forget in modernday Turky.

Originally Posted by Butterfly

What about the Spanish, French ?

I did'nt include them as they were mainly contemporys of the British, vieing for more or less the same lands but not as sucsessful, large or infuential.

Originally Posted by Mhz

What about the mongols?? Was it an empire or Genghis Khan was full of shit man??

It was an Empire, it did'nt actually reach its peak until after Genghis's death, although by that time under Kublai (the last "Great Khan") it could be argued that is was no longer a single entity, It also lead to the Moughal empire in India and the one Kublai started in China (yung I think but would have to look it up). Genghis has had a lot of bad press IMO, demonised in the west but the mongol empire was one of the most multi cultural and religiously tolerent of the time. Many of the rumors of atrocities atributed to the mongols were actually spread by themselfs as a form of physcological warfare. I'm not saying that they did'nt comit any but many were exagerated. Genghs would usually give a city the oppertunity to surrender, if they did they would stay largley intact, keeping more or less the same local goverment, if they did'nt he would kill everyone/enslave everyone and plunder the city then burn it to the ground. As an overall tactic it worked pretty well

**kingwilly** · 01-06-2006, 02:14 PM

Originally Posted by Sir Burr

I

Right. As that was my 150th post, I'm off to discover the dark secrets in the Troll forum!

hes gonna come back dissapointed then inni he?

**kingwilly** · 01-06-2006, 02:17 PM

Portugese ?

Dutch ?

or where they not empires ?

they split the entire world between them at one stage.

**RandomChances** · 01-06-2006, 02:29 PM

Originally Posted by kingwillyhggtb

Portugese ? Dutch ?

I'm not that well versed with either, but thought the Dutch was more of a trading Empire, many small far flung holdings or trading enclaves, but not much actual land mass. The Portugese great explorers but did'nt really do much after that. IMO much the same as I said for the French and Spanish, they were overshadowed by the British.

**Butterfly** · 01-06-2006, 08:42 PM

Napoleon was an emperor, wasn't he ? he did kick some British ass

**Little Chuchok** · 01-06-2006, 08:45 PM

Originally Posted by Butterfly

Napoleon was an emperor, wasn't he ? he did kick some British ass

Didn't his mob side with the yanks....

**stroller** · 01-06-2006, 08:53 PM

Originally Posted by Butterfly

Napoleon was an emperor, wasn't he ? he did kick some British ass

There are still French terms used in Germany following Napoleon times...

**Butterfly** · 01-06-2006, 08:56 PM

that was Lafayette and it was 100 years before him, if I am not mistaken

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