Thread: My Lai Massacre Revisited

Originally Posted by Marmite the Dog

Originally Posted by Mr Earl

Ask any thai bar girl who she prefers, Arabs, europeans, or americans?

Japanese most of the time.

They're small, quick, not fat & smelly and pay the best.

Now here's a man, who's speaking from experience.

Originally Posted by stroller

I never heard of any "massacres" by the US army in WW2 in Germany.
Maybe that's because they didn't do much fighting then, but breezed in towards the end of it to be celebrated.

Revisionist history again my dear sTroller?

Why did the germans prefer to surrender to the armies battling from the west vs. surrendering to the ruskies?

Originally Posted by Marmite the Dog

Originally Posted by Mr Earl

Ask any thai bar girl who she prefers, Arabs, europeans, or americans?

Japanese most of the time.

They're small, quick, not fat & smelly and pay the best.

Yea they've ruined many of the girls in Patong!

I have to go to Pattaya to play.

Originally Posted by Milkman

Most go into the military as a teenager. At this age it's easy to "mold a mind."

Probably a higher percentage of teenagers go to college or university than those who enter the military. I'd say it's highly likely that university professors are better at molding minds than some "uneduated" Gunnery Sargeant.

Originally Posted by attaboy

Why did the germans prefer to surrender to the armies battling from the west vs. surrendering to the ruskies?

because the russians had personal experience of the atrocities comitted by the german/slavs I doubt they were keen to fall into their hands.

who do you think the americans will be keen to surrender to ?

well teachers will make sure that you develop critical thinking, which is the central purpose of education.

Military training on the other hand, will focus on "effectiveness" and the ability to not question orders. Basically the opposite of critical thinking. The last thing you need during combat is to have troops questioning your strategies or your orders.

^ True.

I know a Vietnam Vet who told me that in boot camp in the 1960s the Drill Seargants were teaching them the "Domino Theory."

Marine's wife paints portrait of US troops out of control in Haditha

· Unit accused of abusing drugs and alcohol
· Officers relieved of duty after killing of 24 Iraqis

Julian Borger in Washington
Monday June 5, 2006
The Guardian

The marine unit involved in the killing of Iraqi civilians in Haditha last November had suffered a "total breakdown" in discipline and had drug and alcohol problems, according to the wife of one of the battalion's staff sergeants.The allegations in Newsweek magazine contribute to an ever more disturbing portrait of embattled marines under high stress, some on their third tour of duty after ferocious door-to-door fighting in the Sunni insurgent strongholds of Falluja and Haditha.
The wife of the unnamed staff sergeant claimed there had been a "total breakdown" in the unit's discipline after it was pulled out of Falluja in early 2005.
"There were problems in Kilo company with drugs, alcohol, hazing [violent initiation games], you name it," she said. "I think it's more than possible that these guys were totally tweaked out on speed or something when they shot those civilians in Haditha."

continued here
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,,1790499,00.html

Originally Posted by Milkman

Professors are a part of the molding of minds.
Also, jouranlists, news anchors, and more importantly the producers. Also, the local pastor and the church, movies, etc. It's the way societies work.

So you admit then you are no better than anybody else ? You too have been molded by external input?

Originally Posted by Butterfly

well teachers will make sure that you develop critical thinking, which is the central purpose of education.

Military training on the other hand, will focus on "effectiveness" and the ability to not question orders. Basically the opposite of critical thinking. The last thing you need during combat is to have troops questioning your strategies or your orders.

True and not true. Unfortunately the PC movement has the troops questioning just about every gawd damn thing their seniors tell them to do. But this is a good example of how changing your thinking would fug up your narrow paradigm of how stupid military people are.

This also shows how little you pay attention or understand about the Rumsfield era. It'a all about effeciency shipwreck ... not effectiveness. Less troops for more work ... less protective gear ... less training.

You need to reconsider what sides of issues you're arguing. I would think your side is that the war has never been effecient in any form of the word.

I will grant you that out of all the branches of the military the Marines are the most prone to brainwashing ... "Do or Die ... Semper Phi ... Kill, kill, kill".

Drill is used to condition people to instantly obey orders - the pretty bits are just side effects.

You guys are crucifying them before they've been found guilty. None of you are approaching this as "Guilty until proven innocent" ...

I saw a report recently on either CNN or BBC that when interviewd about the alleged attack the eye witnesses couldn't tell the same story twice.

If this was a revenge killing (if the whole thing isn't a set up) then the MArines absolutely deserve to be punished. But it really doesn't matter to any of you anyway ... you're pathetic. You've already convicted them without evidence and if they're found innocent you'll just say it's a cover up.

^ well, we are no different then, since all muslims are guilty of terrorism

Originally Posted by Storekeeper

Less troops for more work ... less protective gear ... less training

That seems pretty stupid actually, I mean less training, what do they hope to achieve ? Is Rumsfield such an incompetent clueless fuck ? why is he still in this administration ?

People who misconstrue what I write think I'm a Rumsfield supporter. He is the right man for the job when you want to transform the way the Pentagon works. He's ill fitted for the job in a time of war. Big problem is he's still trying to move forward with his initial agenda while simultaneoulsy fighting a war. He's too rigid to be a war time SECDEF.

How come nobody is arguing that if the Bush Administration has so much confidence in the puppet Iraqi government, then why not let them investigate and try the Marines ? If a military member is found guilty of rape or murder by countries such as Japan or the Philippines they are normally turned over.

^ actually not true. Only when there is a mass protest and international pressure. Usually the military likes to keep things quiet. If they were turned over to the Iraqis, I am not sure they would survive the trial. But it could be a good start. But not going to happen.

Originally Posted by Storekeeper

How come nobody is arguing that if the Bush Administration has so much confidence in the puppet Iraqi government, then why not let them investigate and try the Marines ? If a military member is found guilty of rape or murder by countries such as Japan or the Philippines they are normally turned over.

The Bush admin has successfully set out to 'protect' military personnel from having to answer any court of law, but dealt with under military procedures back home.
That's one of the reason folks shout "foul!" when soldiers are found not guilty or receive a slap on the wrist for rape and torture.
That applies to military courts worldwide, they don't have a reputation for being 'independent' - well they aren't.

Not true my ass. Tell all those military folks in the prison at Yokohama that ignorance. Tell that young Sailor who killed the Japanese woman in January it took international pressure to turn him over. He was in Japanese custody within 48 hours and it had nothing to do with international protests.

^ well you got a point about the Japanese. Because of the recent scandals there and the possible threats of closing some of the US bases after local mass protests, has forced the US Army to adapt a new approach, at least for Japan. In most cases now they are turned over. Only because the locals threatened to kick out all US personel from the islands. The stake were high and the army finally decided to strike a deal with the locals if a crime happened. So it's basically part of a deal, not really common policy. I am sure it's a different set of rules for South Korea

Originally Posted by Storekeeper

Originally Posted by Milkman

Professors are a part of the molding of minds.
Also, jouranlists, news anchors, and more importantly the producers. Also, the local pastor and the church, movies, etc. It's the way societies work.

So you admit then you are no better than anybody else ? You too have been molded by external input?

Of course.

What as many of us should try to do is get information from different sources with different backgrounds and different perspectives.

Originally Posted by Butterfly

^ well you got a point about the Japanese. Because of the recent scandals there and the possible threats of closing some of the US bases after local mass protests, has forced the US Army to adapt a new approach, at least for Japan. In most cases now they are turned over. Only because the locals threatened to kick out all US personel from the islands.

Hollow threats. And what mass protests ? You ever seen a Japanese protest ? They have to file permits and are the most peaceful demonstrations imaginable. They even openly admit to paying people 2000 yen to show up and carry a sign. We drive in and out of the gates while the protesters are standing there. Turning over US personnel ... I can vouch for the last 3 decades. It's standard practice unless the Japanese waive their rights under SOFA. The Japanese ALWAYS waive their right unless it's a murder or rape. The US military in Japan isn't going anywhere in the near future.

Also, don't forget the International Criminal Court:
http://www.globalpolicy.org/intljustice/icc/usindex.htm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/1970312.stm

They wouldn't want those responsible for the alledged massacres to be tried by an independent, non-military court.

Other nations opposed to the ICC: Israel, China, Zimbabwe

Originally Posted by stroller

They wouldn't want those responsible for the alledged massacres to be tried by an independent, non-military court.

Why don't we send them over to the Hague so they can die in prison before they even get to trial ?