President Obama News Thread

[Jet Gorgon]

^ I'll check that out.

Here are some ideas to ponder:

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover they can vote themselves largess out of the public treasury. From that moment on the majority always vote for the candidate promising the most benefits from the treasury with the result that democracy always collapses over a loose fiscal policy, always to be followed by a dictatorship."
Alexander Tyler, speaking on the fall of Athens


"A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to fear."
Marcus Tullius Cicero (42B.C)

"The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of "liberalism", they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened".
Norman Thomas
(for many years, U.S.Socialist Party presidential candidate)

[ItsRobsLife]

Still clutching at straws Jet.

[Jet Gorgon]

^ 555555555 You just want America to go the sorry sad way of England.

More socialism on the way:
FCC’s Chief Diversity Officer Wants Private Broadcasters to Pay a Sum Equal to Their Total Operating Costs to Fund Public Broadcasting
CNSNews.com - FCC’s Chief Diversity Officer Wants Private Broadcasters to Pay a Sum Equal to Their Total Operating Costs to Fund Public Broadcasting

The wad even quoted how well this control works for Chavez. Rahmie really hates Fox and Rush.

And, let's look at Van Jones, the commie, now a special adviser to the bambam admin.

[Muadib]

FFS, if you or I were to keep our fiscal house in the same order as the US government, we'd all be in prison... I see no difference in what the US government is doing and what Bernie Madoff pulled...

Balance the budget??? No, if we merely balance the budget we will still be in a huge hole with regard to debt... The government needs to get into the black any way possible... Raise taxes, cut social benefits, reduce military spending and slit the throat of any Congressman that proposes pork for his district...

[Boon Mee]

FFS, if you or I were to keep our fiscal house in the same order as the US government, we'd all be in prison... I see no difference in what the US government is doing and what Bernie Madoff pulled...

Balance the budget??? No, if we merely balance the budget we will still be in a huge hole with regard to debt... The government needs to get into the black any way possible... Raise taxes, cut social benefits, reduce military spending and slit the throat of any Congressman that proposes pork for his district...

Whoa! Comrade Obama will not tolerate dissent!

[AntRobertson]

The usual puddle deep level of political analysis I see.

[barbaro]

The usual puddle deep level of political analysis I see.

Yup. A pic with a brief sarcastic comment. This is Boon's fortet

He could have noted the smilarities of BO and Mussolini's Fascist model, and some on the board have.

Boon? You willing?

[ItsRobsLife]

I think it's quite funny that the 'vocal right' claim that Obama is Facist one minute and Communist the next, even claiming at times that Nazis were Socialist in a left of centre leaning so they can square the circle. Their real problem is that he is black, but they don't have the balls to say that.

The fact is that to the majority of rational thinkers Obama is at least a positive alternative to the previous government and at best as the first coloured president is the embodiment of the bastion of democracy and equality that the US often portrays itself as.

[slackula]

"A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to fear." Marcus Tullius Cicero (42B.C)

Cicero knew Dick Cheney?

[robuzo]

These are strategic bases.

Some are strategic bases, others- many others- seem to only exist because nobody has the fiscal responsibility, vision, or guts to close them.

Chalmers Johnson (ex- State Dept) has done extensive research on this- I highly recommend reading his work

I second the recommendation. A lot of Johnson's work is available online, and his Blowback book is excellent. Link to his article in the Nation of the same name:
Blowback
"Blowback" is a CIA term first used in March 1954 in a recently declassified report on the 1953 operation to overthrow the government of Mohammed Mossadegh in Iran. It is a metaphor for the unintended consequences of the US government's international activities that have been kept secret from the American people. The CIA's fears that there might ultimately be some blowback from its egregious interference in the affairs of Iran were well founded. Installing the Shah in power brought twenty-five years of tyranny and repression to the Iranian people and elicited the Ayatollah Khomeini's revolution. The staff of the American embassy in Teheran was held hostage for more than a year. This misguided "covert operation" of the US government helped convince many capable people throughout the Islamic world that the United States was an implacable enemy.

[DrB0b]

"A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to fear." Marcus Tullius Cicero (42B.C)

Cicero knew Dick Cheney?

Whoever the quote is from it ain't Cicero

[Jet Gorgon]

^ I copied it from a friend's e-mail. If you say so, it must be so, huh, Bobby? I don't suppose the translation differed or did Cicero speak modern English?

[DrB0b]

^ I copied it from a friend's e-mail.

Ah, as carefully sourced as ever, eh Jet?

I don't suppose the translation differed or did Cicero speak modern English?

Eh, what's that now? That makes no sense at all, are you on the cheap sherry again?

[Jet Gorgon]

^ 555 No ability to reason, huh, Bobby? Alz's setting in?

[DrB0b]

^ 555 No ability to reason, huh, Bobby? Alz's setting in?

Errr, your quote here says

I don't suppose the translation differed or did Cicero speak modern English?

If Cicero did not write the quote what does it matter what language it's in? How is that relevant to the fact that that quote is not Cicero, translated or original? Reason that one out.

[helge]

Marcus Tullius Cicero (42B.C)

Whoever the quote is from it ain't Cicero

Because he died in 43 BC or what ?
Throw us pigs a pearl

[DrB0b]

Marcus Tullius Cicero (42B.C)

Whoever the quote is from it ain't Cicero

Because he died in 43 BC or what ?
Throw us pigs a pearl

He was indeed murdered in 43 BC (My av is a bust of him at about that period) although that doesn't mean he couldn't have said it at some other time, I've seen several dates for that quote.

However, the quote, usually attributed to Sallust citing Cicero or to Cicero himself doesn't exist in either the works of Sallust or Cicero therefore it's not from them. It's still a good quote, mind you, the only reason I bothered highlighting it is because it's another example of Jet's cutting and pasting of material she rarely bothers to read, check, or verify. It's also a good example of a pretty common phenomenon among people with points to make but who don't have to wit to back those points up themselves, assigning quotes to well known people and authorities makes the reader more likely to accept the quote and argument at face value and not think about it for themselves.

[helge]

Thank You

[Jet Gorgon]

So, not attributed to anyone, then? Guess nobody could have made an error before 43BC. But interesting. I'll let my bud know.

[Humbert]

There are at least 29 volumes of speeches and writings by Cicero that exist. Add to that many anecdotal and third person accounts. The quote may have come from Robert Harris's novel Imperium?

[DrB0b]

There are at least 29 volumes of speeches and writings by Cicero that exist. Add to that many anecdotal and third person accounts.

Yes, all in the public domain, all available in libraries and on the net, and all studied intensively for over 1,000 years. If the quote was genuine it would be known exactly where it's from. Quotes without citations are always suspect. There are, as far as I know, no genuine citations for that quote.

A speech by Cato, recorded in Sallust's "Catiline Conspiracy", contains some lines which be can be seen as being vaguely similar to the quote, it's possible that the quote was originally based on Cato's speech, although that's a bit of a stretch. It could have been assigned to Cicero because Cicero is considered to be one of the finest minds of all time while Cato was, fundamentally, a git.

[MrG]

Cicero is considered to be one of the finest minds of all time while Cato was, fundamentally, a git.

Cicero was also a great orator, a skill he used like a dagger against his political enemys. Obama's got the skill, he should put some heft behind it and use it.

[Boon Mee]

The usual puddle deep level of political analysis I see.

Au contraire there mon amie! The comparison is most apt.Comrade Obama intends to nationalize (socialize) just about all of American life. Mighty glad I don't live there...

[barbaro]

The usual puddle deep level of political analysis I see.

Au contraire there mon amie! The comparison is most apt.Comrade Obama intends to nationalize (socialize) just about all of American life. Mighty glad I don't live there...

I'm glad I don't live there, either. For many of the same reasons.

But how is he "socialiing" ALL aspects of life? I see BO as a conintuation of GWB's big government, with more gov involvement for the downtown.

Not much new with Mr. BO, IMO.

[AntRobertson]

The usual puddle deep level of political analysis I see.

Au contraire there mon amie! The comparison is most apt.Comrade Obama intends to nationalize (socialize) just about all of American life. Mighty glad I don't live there...

No he doesn't Booners. The comparison's trite, sophomoric and puerile.

Wake up, it's not the 1950's anymore and there's no threat of imminent invasion from Communist Russia. Also you should lay off the blogs for a while, they're rotting your brain.