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  1. #51
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    Powell is a soldier, doesn't have a brain to think by himself, was discredited by the Iraq disaster

    Clinton fired him because he was a brainwashed soldier, and rightly so

    I am very suspicious of the guy, ambitious but not smart enough to serve that ambition, very easy to manipulate

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by attaboy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by AntRobertson View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DrivingForce View Post
    Actually everything the Bush admin is doing now might ironically bail out Obama's admin over the next 4 years if they don't radically change the direction and there we ago again in this cycle of republicans repairing and democrats riding the results to twin terms and taking all of the credit with a convenient memory of the constituents..
    And what, exactly, is the Bush administration doing now?

    Bush came into office on the back of a Clinton surplus, that's gone. Oh wait, that was the Democrats fault too right?
    As if Gingrich and the Republican Congress had nothing to do with it. They voiced the public mood which Clinton was forced to recognize if he wished to be a relevant player. Cue Ant: "Bush! Bush!"
    thanks for addressing it, I hadn't realized what the ANT posted as he's on ignore.. of course it's never the Repubs accomplishments that count for anything only the failures...

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrivingForce View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by panama hat View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DrivingForce View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by panama hat View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DrivingForce
    Actually everything the Bush admin is doing now might ironically bail out Obama's admin over the next 4 years if they don't radically change the direction and there we ago again in this cycle of republicans repairing and democrats riding the results to twin terms and taking all of the credit with a convenient memory of the constituents..

    Dude, strictly no when posting . . .
    missed the obvious point again so I'll not bother, just keep smoking the gonja man..
    Ahem . . . the reason I posted that was because you missed whole target . . . Peace Out.
    No I didn't....... you stepped right into it by wearing the very blinders i was speaking of by thinking somehow that Clinton had anything to do with the successful economy he inherited from the previous 2 admins.. both Rep.. the country was already on the right course and he just superficially effected it but mostly just stayed the course...

    Like i said short sightedness on the part of the masses and a total lack of the real understanding of how long it takes a government to turn around such problems and begin tracking a new course...they (voters or outsiders) never take a real unobstructed view in the past to see who the actual problem resolvers really are as most develop long term amnesia when it comes to politics or they just never develop a full understanding in the first place, therefore history is destined to repeat itself, like being stuck in a time loop...

    You might also mention that the largest increase in the defecit came after the democrats took control of the congress. Tax and spend, tax and spend!

  4. #54
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    actually I had done an hour of confirmation of facts and an entire parallel expose on Presidential terms and accomplishments dems versus repubs dating back to Kennedy since that is the most recent events affecting the current generation. but after all of that compilation it got dumped when i got dumped from TD for not having any interaction, so that royally pissed me off.

    there was a clear trend established between the dems and the repubs as to who are the real spenders and trouble makers and who is the actual problem solvers and economic repair parties. it was absolutely clear that the dems are the primary cause over the last 50 years for most of our confrontations, big spending, big government, tax increases and world wide drop in perception of American position in the world, if I'm feeling really energetic I'll compile it again and post it up..

    One point of serious note overlooked though is that it was actually Jimmy Carter's admin that supported, trained and armed during the russian/afghan war the very terrorists we are currently confronting ..
    Last edited by DrivingForce; 21-10-2008 at 05:33 PM. Reason: content

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrivingForce
    One point of serious note overlooked though is that it was actually Jimmy Carter's admin that supported, trained and armed during the russian/afghan war the very terrorists we are currently confronting ..
    He may have started the support of them, but the budget for it ballooned during the Reagan years.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrivingForce View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by attaboy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by AntRobertson View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DrivingForce View Post
    Actually everything the Bush admin is doing now might ironically bail out Obama's admin over the next 4 years if they don't radically change the direction and there we ago again in this cycle of republicans repairing and democrats riding the results to twin terms and taking all of the credit with a convenient memory of the constituents..
    And what, exactly, is the Bush administration doing now?

    Bush came into office on the back of a Clinton surplus, that's gone. Oh wait, that was the Democrats fault too right?
    As if Gingrich and the Republican Congress had nothing to do with it. They voiced the public mood which Clinton was forced to recognize if he wished to be a relevant player. Cue Ant: "Bush! Bush!"
    thanks for addressing it, I hadn't realized what the ANT posted as he's on ignore.. of course it's never the Repubs accomplishments that count for anything only the failures...
    ...

    Wait, this is the same clown that challenged everyone to name even one country more free and democratic than the US and then promptly disappeared to a chorus of racous laughter isn't it? And he has me on ignore?

    Excellent, another pig-ignorant idiot bites the dust.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by AntRobertson
    Wait, this is the same clown that challenged everyone to name even one country more free and democratic than the US and then promptly disappeared to a chorus of racous laughter isn't it?
    In his full glory and engaging in discussion with the like-minded

  8. #58
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    Wiki is your friend all of you non-American aficionados of our political system and it's history..

    i think i see Ants lips moving but as is usual there is nothing but nonsensical drivel running out of it..

    I do know this, if the above moronic post is directed at me, you'll find that unlike the original author I don't argue to the death of every last point until the thread ends up in MKP as I know when to let other person hang themselves and leave the conversation..that's a lesson the moronic author of that drivel has yet to learn and likely never will..and you know what they say about people who never learn from their mistakes....
    Last edited by DrivingForce; 21-10-2008 at 08:03 PM. Reason: addendum

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrivingForce
    and you know what they say about people who never learn from their mistakes....
    . . . they call themselves Driving Force and chuck hissy-fits in internet forums about flags?

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by panama hat View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DrivingForce
    and you know what they say about people who never learn from their mistakes....
    . . . they call themselves Driving Force and chuck hissy-fits in internet forums about flags?
    brilliant!! wish I would've been clever enough to think of that one....

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrivingForce View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by panama hat View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DrivingForce
    and you know what they say about people who never learn from their mistakes....
    . . . they call themselves Driving Force and chuck hissy-fits in internet forums about flags?
    brilliant!! wish I would've been clever enough to think of that one....
    He can't come up with anything original, DF. He just regurgitates his own chewed cud.
    Thanks for doing all that research (sorry you lost it; I usuallly copy a post where I researched stuff so if it gets zapped, I still have it in the memory zone) and then the synopsis. I've usually read it that way. I've always seem Dems as Dreamers at the People's expense.

  12. #62
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    I don't agree with the portion in bold type. The supposed racism hides within those polled who say they will vote for Obama and then don't. The rest of his article explains how there was no so-called Bradley Effect. It was poor polling and a newspaper, the San Francisco Chronicle, wishing to believe the polling or wishing to influence the election.



    October 13, 2008 The Bradley Effect - Selective Memory

    By V. Lance Tarrance, Jr.
    Now that polls indicate Senator Barack Obama is the favorite to win, some analysts predict a racially biased "Bradley Effect" could prevent Obama from winning a majority on November 4th. That is a pernicious canard and is unworthy of 21st century political narratives. I should know. I was there in 1982 at "ground zero" in California when I served George Deukmejian as his general election pollster and as a member of his strategy team when he defeated African-American Democratic California gubernatorial candidate Tom Bradley, not once but twice, in 1982 and again in 1986.
    Bradley Effect believers assume that there is an undetectable tendency in the behavior of some white voters who tell pollsters that they are "undecided" when in fact their true preference is to vote against the black candidate. This so-called effect suggests the power or advantage to alter an outcome - a pretty serious charge. This would render poll projections inaccurate (overstating both the number of undecided voters and the African-American candidate's margin over a white opponent) and create an unaccounted for different outcome. However, it is indeed a "theory in search of data."

    The hype surrounding the Bradley Effect has evolved to where some political pundits believe in 2008 that Obama must win in the national pre-election polls by 6-9 points before he can be assured a victory. That's absurd. There won't be a 6-9 point Bradley Effect -- there can't be, since few national polls show a large enough amount of undecided voters and it's in the undecided column where racism supposedly hides.
    The other reason I reject the Bradley Effect in 2008 is because there was not a Bradley Effect in the 1982 California Governor's race, either. Even though Tom Bradley had been slightly ahead in the polls in 1982, due to sampling error, it was statistically too close to call. For example, the daily Tarrance and Associates tracking polls for the Deukmejian campaign showed the following weekly summations (N=1000 each) during the month of October:

    Week of:
    Oct.7th Oct. 14th Oct. 21st Oct. 28 Nov. 1
    Bradley 49 45 46 45 45
    Deukmejian 37 41 41 42 44

    It is obvious that this election was closing fast. Yet, Bradley's win was projected by the most prominent public pollster in the state, Mervin Field, who boasted on Election Day that Tom Bradley would defeat George Deukmejian, "making the Los Angeles mayor the first elected black governor in American history" (UPI 11-3-82). The reason for Field's enthusiasm was that his last weekend polling showed a 7-point margin for Bradley, but this was totally at variance from the Tarrance and Associates internal tracking results. Field's own exit polls, on Election Day itself, where voters were questioned after they left the polling places, also predicted a Bradley win. This caused the San Fransisco Chronicle, ignoring the closeness of the election and mixed polling results, to print 170,000 copies of its early morning Wednesday edition under the headline "Bradley Win Projected."
    Also at variance with the Mervin Field exit polls were the NBC and the CBS networks, using both exit polls and actual returns from key precincts, when they declared George Deukmejian the winner and not Tom Bradley the winner. In an AP report, a KNBC newscaster told viewers on Election Night "...half of the polls are wrong and I don't know who's right." The only thing we know for sure is the election was too close to call, and some of the Election Day projections were right and others (notably Mervin Fields' projections) were wrong and, unfortunately, most of this explanation because of selective memory has not been carried forward to this day.
    The Field Poll inaugurated the speculation that led to the baseless Bradley Effect theory when, after the 1982 election, Field said "race was a factor in the Bradley loss" (AP 11-4-82). Mervin Field cited no data, but only speculated that white conservative voters of both parties were more undecided and that he may have over-represented minority voters in his polling. Thus, the Bradley Effect was born amidst some major polling errors and a confusing array of mixed predictions, hardly a firm foundation to construct a theory.
    Even later analysis of the 1982 election revealed the weakness in the Bradley Effect theory as Bradley actually won on election day turnout, but lost the absentee vote so badly that Deukmejian pulled ahead to win. That Bradley won the vote on Election Day would hardly seem to suggest a hidden or last minute anti-black backlash--on the contrary, it suggests how easy it would have been for weekend polls and Election Day exit polls to get it wrong, since the decisive group of voters had largely already voted before the final weekend and never showed up at the polls to answer the questions of exit pollsters.
    When Barack Obama lost the 2008 New Hampshire primary after all seven pre-election polls had Obama projected as the winner, the Bradley Effect got a second wind, blown along by a lot of misinformed press speculation asserting that our nation was still suffering from latent racism. A few weeks later, after much analysis of election demographics, and with a more thoughtful examination, it is clear that race was not the determinant that gave Hillary Clinton a surprising victory. In fact, it was a combination of an older brand of feminism, the open party system that encouraged independents to vote in the primary and some Obama campaign hubris that caused the result.
    The New Hampshire polling debacle was also eerily familiar to those of us who witnessed first-hand the 1982 California election day errors. A lesson learned from 1982 campaign, but not remembered in 2008, was what a San Francisco Chronicle editor said the day after the 1982 election, "It seemed logical...to project a continued gain for Bradley." There was never a consensus of data to support this logic. The 2008 New Hampshire update on the so-called Bradley Effect also falls short of proving this false theory of latent racism. Instead, the New Hampshire debacle should be labeled for what it is, the worst polling disaster since "Dewey Beats Truman."
    The Deukmejian campaign tracking polls did not confirm any Bradley Effect and to interject this type of speculation into the 2008 presidential election is not only folly, but insulting to the political maturity of our nation's voters. To allow this theory to continue to persist anymore than 25 years is to damage our democracy, no matter who wins.



    RealClearPolitics - Articles - The Bradley Effect - Selective Memory
    Last edited by attaboy; 22-10-2008 at 05:23 AM.

  13. #63
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    Obama leading old McCain by 10% now, jesus, what a lead

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon
    I usuallly copy a post where I researched stuff so if it gets zapped, I still have it in the memory zone) and then the synopsis.
    Ha, ha, ha . . . you get caught out more times than anyone else . . . you and research is like water and oil . . .

    Quite rich for someone who argued for days that the Canadian 2 dollar note was not legal tender . . . and even with links and evidence you still didn't accept it . . . but you had nothing, just your big mouth.



    Quote Originally Posted by DrivingForce
    brilliant!! wish I would've been clever enough to think of that one....
    Yes, I'm sure . . . but you weren't . . . and aren't.

  15. #65
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    Mad hatter, after your bragging, moaning, raging and inability to see two sides of an argument, I just gave you up for the useless git that you are. Obama is selling teddy bears now; go get one.

  16. #66
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    this is a very good Powell interview especially his worries about the polarisation of the country and the young muslim who died fighting for the US.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon View Post
    Mad hatter, after your bragging, moaning, raging and inability to see two sides of an argument, I just gave you up for the useless git that you are. Obama is selling teddy bears now; go get one.
    Mad Hatter? I'll give you that one, Jet - the best and wittiest thing you've ever come up with. I like it.

    As for the rest . . . just your usual



    So, anything to add to the discussion or simply the normal garbage? Come on, Jet. Try to play the ball.

    You never did explain the $2,- note issue . . . aside from saying that people kept loads of them in their drawers as souvenirs.

    Retired at 39 or just redundant?


    Now, back to the topic if you don't mind.


    ^ The video . . . amazing how much sense he makes, referring to Kareem Khan, a Muslim American soldier who died fighting in Iraq . . . and then asking why members of his own party keep slinging in the question about Obama bing a Muslim . . . and even if he were, why would it matter . . .

    When I was growing up in the US and think about the names of our neighbours, the ones I can remember from being a little kid:
    Zerwick
    McCheron
    Levy
    Silberberg

    A mish-mash of heritage . . . and I do believe that that is what made the US into the powerhouse it still is . . . and when I compare it to Australia where even third generation Greeks refer to themselves as Greek or the same goes for the Italians etc . . . The cohesion that the US forms in its people . . . and this is just what too many now use as a divisive issue to further their short-term wants

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by panama hat
    and when I compare it to Australia where even third generation Greeks refer to themselves as Greek or the same goes for the Italians etc . .
    They do the same in the USA, what do ya think they call themselves,, Scots??

    Darkies who have had family there for 300 years still refer to them selves as African American, of which there is no race as African American.
    guess that they think you couldn't tell by the smell or looks that they was Jig.

  19. #69
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    ^
    come on BG, pride in their heritage innit... same as Irish Americans or Italian Americans or Welsh Europeans.

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiangMai noon
    come on BG, pride in their heritage innit... same as Irish Americans or Italian Americans or Welsh Europeans.
    Well Noon, in all my life in the USA I have known lots of Itals and Micks, Krauts, every nationalities and once in America they do not tend to say that they are anything but American,, never heard anyone say I am ?????/American,,Never.
    But then no one asks,, maybe will ask what Natl are you and the dude will say Ital or Swede But never add American, only one race does that.

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackgang View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ChiangMai noon
    come on BG, pride in their heritage innit... same as Irish Americans or Italian Americans or Welsh Europeans.
    Well Noon, in all my life in the USA I have known lots of Itals and Micks, Krauts, every nationalities and once in America they do not tend to say that they are anything but American,, never heard anyone say I am ?????/American,,Never.
    But then no one asks,, maybe will ask what Natl are you and the dude will say Ital or Swede But never add American, only one race does that.
    Why are you pandering to the racist old fool?
    Last edited by AntRobertson; 22-10-2008 at 12:13 PM. Reason: Bad speelllling

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackgang
    Well Noon, in all my life in the USA I have known lots of Itals and Micks
    yes, but have you watched the Sopranos?

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by panama hat
    Ask Chitown, we were practically neighbours .
    Did you and he shoot marbles or play on the sliders together and did he actually know you when you lived there??

    Or is this one of those "we went to different schools together" ????

  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiangMai noon
    yes, but have you watched the Sopranos?
    No I was always in real life and not the hollywood scene, can't get to wound up in make believe.

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackgang View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by panama hat
    Ask Chitown, we were practically neighbours .
    Did you and he shoot marbles or play on the sliders together and did he actually know you when you lived there??

    Or is this one of those "we went to different schools together" ????
    I worked at the K-Mart down the road . . . does that count?

    Studied at Norhwestern

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