Has the death knell been dealt? Colin Powell choses

**DrivingForce** · 20-10-2008, 10:13 PM

Originally Posted by panama hat

Originally Posted by DrivingForce

Actually everything the Bush admin is doing now might ironically bail out Obama's admin over the next 4 years if they don't radically change the direction and there we ago again in this cycle of republicans repairing and democrats riding the results to twin terms and taking all of the credit with a convenient memory of the constituents..

Dude, strictly no

when posting . . .

missed the obvious point again so I'll not bother, just keep smoking the gonja man..

**Loy Toy** · 20-10-2008, 10:25 PM

As a complete and utter novice and outsider I watched McCain leave the stage the other night and he looked liks an old washed up man.

I have to ask myself how many other voters (from both sides) saw that and how many will feel he is past it..........?????

Forget the Powell factor and all the other outside influences, I have a feeling he is just too old and his policies are too dated for the job at hand.

It is now up to the electorate to decide!

**panama hat** · 20-10-2008, 10:32 PM

Originally Posted by DrivingForce

Originally Posted by panama hat

Originally Posted by DrivingForce

Actually everything the Bush admin is doing now might ironically bail out Obama's admin over the next 4 years if they don't radically change the direction and there we ago again in this cycle of republicans repairing and democrats riding the results to twin terms and taking all of the credit with a convenient memory of the constituents..

Dude, strictly no

when posting . . .

missed the obvious point again so I'll not bother, just keep smoking the gonja man..

Ahem . . . the reason I posted that was because you missed whole target . . . Peace Out.

**mad_dog** · 20-10-2008, 10:40 PM

Originally Posted by Loy Toy

As a complete and utter novice and outsider I watched McCain leave the stage the other night and he looked liks an old washed up man.

I have to ask myself how many other voters (from both sides) saw that and how many will feel he is past it..........?????

Forget the Powell factor and all the other outside influences, I have a feeling he is just too old and his policies are too dated for the job at hand.

It is now up to the electorate to decide!

Too true he walked off in the direction of the fire escape at the end of the debate. I can't think of any major corporation that has a CEO who was hired for the top position when he/she was 73. Knowing right wing American's recollection of histroy I am sure Churchill will instantly spring to mind but I doubt they would recall his post war return to office as a septogenarian in which the elder statesmen just came across as elderly and unfit to serve.

**barbaro** · 20-10-2008, 11:11 PM

Originally Posted by DrivingForce

Actually everything the Bush admin is doing now might ironically bail out Obama's admin over the next 4 years if they don't radically change the direction and there we ago again in this cycle of republicans repairing and democrats riding the results to twin terms and taking all of the credit with a convenient memory of the constituents..

I disagree with the bailout.

I think these banks/organizations should NOT be helped. They should just go bankrupts.

And remember, this "bailout" is not about GWB - it's about the entire government and BOTH parties.

I suppose you can now guess what my political party is, and who I'm voting for.

**DrivingForce** · 20-10-2008, 11:17 PM

Originally Posted by panama hat

Originally Posted by DrivingForce

Originally Posted by panama hat

Originally Posted by DrivingForce

Actually everything the Bush admin is doing now might ironically bail out Obama's admin over the next 4 years if they don't radically change the direction and there we ago again in this cycle of republicans repairing and democrats riding the results to twin terms and taking all of the credit with a convenient memory of the constituents..

Dude, strictly no

when posting . . .

missed the obvious point again so I'll not bother, just keep smoking the gonja man..

Ahem . . . the reason I posted that was because you missed whole target . . . Peace Out.

No I didn't....... you stepped right into it by wearing the very blinders i was speaking of by thinking somehow that Clinton had anything to do with the successful economy he inherited from the previous 2 admins.. both Rep.. the country was already on the right course and he just superficially effected it but mostly just stayed the course...

Like i said short sightedness on the part of the masses and a total lack of the real understanding of how long it takes a government to turn around such problems and begin tracking a new course...they (voters or outsiders) never take a real unobstructed view in the past to see who the actual problem resolvers really are as most develop long term amnesia when it comes to politics or they just never develop a full understanding in the first place, therefore history is destined to repeat itself, like being stuck in a time loop...

**panama hat** · 20-10-2008, 11:19 PM

^

You assume too much

**DrivingForce** · 20-10-2008, 11:22 PM

Originally Posted by Milkman

Originally Posted by DrivingForce

Actually everything the Bush admin is doing now might ironically bail out Obama's admin over the next 4 years if they don't radically change the direction and there we ago again in this cycle of republicans repairing and democrats riding the results to twin terms and taking all of the credit with a convenient memory of the constituents..

I disagree with the bailout.

I think these banks/organizations should NOT be helped. They should just go bankrupts.

And remember, this "bailout" is not about GWB - it's about the entire government and BOTH parties.

I suppose you can now guess what my political party is, and who I'm voting for.

I was one of the first to post this same thing about the brokerage firms but I think it is too deep for many of the top banking institutions and insurance companies for example which are somewhat victims themselves in much of this..

The people most likely to suffer if these banks failed would be the little guy and the retirees who put their trust in someone else who was SUPPOSED to know how to invest their hard earned salary better than they would ordinarily.... i wish there was a way to put the money in the hands of the little guy and circumvent the banks and other institutions completely but I can't see one...

**attaboy** · 20-10-2008, 11:57 PM

Originally Posted by AntRobertson

Originally Posted by DrivingForce

Actually everything the Bush admin is doing now might ironically bail out Obama's admin over the next 4 years if they don't radically change the direction and there we ago again in this cycle of republicans repairing and democrats riding the results to twin terms and taking all of the credit with a convenient memory of the constituents..

And what, exactly, is the Bush administration doing now?

Bush came into office on the back of a Clinton surplus, that's gone. Oh wait, that was the Democrats fault too right?

As if Gingrich and the Republican Congress had nothing to do with it. They voiced the public mood which Clinton was forced to recognize if he wished to be a relevant player. Cue Ant: "Bush! Bush!"

**blackgang** · 21-10-2008, 12:28 AM

Originally Posted by Milkman

I suppose you can now guess what my political party is, and who I'm voting for.

Fuck man, we already know that.
Uncle Ho From Hanoi.

**Jet Gorgon** · 21-10-2008, 12:42 AM

Originally Posted by DrivingForce

The people most likely to suffer if these banks failed would be the little guy and the retirees who put their trust in someone else who was SUPPOSED to know how to invest their hard earned salary better than they would ordinarily.... i wish there was a way to put the money in the hands of the little guy and circumvent the banks and other institutions completely but I can't see one...

401Ks are invested in mutual funds usually, so the person has no say in exactly which stocks, bonds, MM instruments he gets. The winklette fund manager does.

**Thormaturge** · 21-10-2008, 07:28 AM

Just a brief warning from history.

Bush was trailing in the polls, including exit polls, in 2004.

Democrats, especially young ones, don't bother voting.

**britmaveric** · 21-10-2008, 07:32 AM

Wouldn't surprise me if McCain wins - actually since I have 100 quid on it - be nice payout to boot.

**Thormaturge** · 21-10-2008, 07:33 AM

Originally Posted by Loy Toy

It is now up to the electorate to decide!

After weighing up all of the promises, the debates, the comments about the bailout, and tha fact that I am not American anyway, I have decided not to vote.

If I were American I would feel the same way.

Obama looks set to create a mess of the USA: a different and bigger one.

**Butterfly** · 21-10-2008, 07:35 AM

Originally Posted by Thormaturge

Just a brief warning from history.

Bush was trailing in the polls, including exit polls, in 2004.

yep, and Bush lost the election, never underestimate the power of election fraud of the Siebold voting machine

**mad_dog** · 21-10-2008, 07:36 AM

Originally Posted by britmaveric

Wouldn't surprise me if McCain wins - actually since I have 100 quid on it - be nice payout to boot.

When placed ? What odds? £s profit?

**britmaveric** · 21-10-2008, 07:42 AM

Think it was CMN - told me about 4to1 odds a few weeks back, so I went and made a wager at Totes. It's went up since, but wager already made so.

**Sir Burr** · 21-10-2008, 07:47 AM

Originally Posted by britmaveric

Wouldn't surprise me if McCain wins

Hmmmmm.......a somewhat subdued statement from you Britmav.

Most of your posts have been shrill and strident that McCain would win. You were very confident.

Something changed?

**britmaveric** · 21-10-2008, 07:48 AM

No still think he will win!!!

**Sir Burr** · 21-10-2008, 07:51 AM

A good article from this morning's BBC:-

Two decades ago, Douglas Wilder watched as a 9% lead in the polls going into Virginia's gubernatorial election slipped to just one-tenth of 1% when the ballots were counted.

Are there some people who just cannot bring themselves to vote for an African-American? Yes

Douglas Wilder
Mayor of Richmond, Virginia

He still won the election - becoming the first African-American to be elected a US state governor - but the narrowness of his victory led analysts to speculate that he had been a victim of a white hesitancy to vote for a black man.
The theory goes that some white voters tell opinion pollsters they will vote for a black candidate - but then, in the privacy of the polling booth, put their cross against a white candidate's name.
And the fear among some supporters is that this could happen to Barack Obama on 4 November, when the country votes for its next president.
The phenomenon is known as the Bradley, or Wilder effect.
Tom Bradley was an African-American mayor of Los Angeles who, running for California's governorship in 1982, saw a sizeable eve-of-polling lead evaporate on election day, giving victory to his white rival, Republican George Deukmejian.
In 1989, the year Wilder became governor of Virginia, David Dinkins was elected the first African-American mayor of New York - but he also saw an 18-point lead in the polls shrink to a winning margin of just two points on the day.
Charles Henry, a California professor who was among the first to research the Bradley effect, says Mr Obama would need a double-digit lead to feel confident of victory.
Other pundits have suggested a six- to nine-point cushion may be sufficient. Mr Obama currently has a lead of about this size, according to most polls.

Obama on US 'racial stalemate'

But Mr Wilder, now mayor of Richmond, Virginia, and a supporter of the Obama campaign, told the BBC News website that he believes racism will not have a major impact this time.
"Will there be some effect? Yes. Are there some people who just cannot bring themselves to vote for an African-American? Yes."
But, he said: "America has grown, people have grown."
Controversies over race have cast a shadow over this campaign.
Popular conservative talk-show host Rush Limbaugh has referred to Mr Obama as the "little black man-child" and Fox News has called his wife, Michelle Obama, his "baby-mama".
One Republican senator described Mr Obama as "uppity", a word formerly used to describe blacks who had ideas above their station.
Reports of racist jibes among audiences at some recent McCain rallies led John Lewis, a Democratic congressman from Georgia, to accuse Mr McCain and his running mate Sarah Palin of "sowing the seeds of hatred and division" - a charge they deny.
The surfacing of videos showing Mr Obama's former pastor, the Rev Jeremiah Wright, preaching "God Damn America!" for its treatment of blacks, did nothing to promote the process of racial reconciliation.
Scepticism
Nonetheless, Mr Wilder remains optimistic about Mr Obama's chances for a number of reasons.
"I do think there is going to be a so-called 'reverse Bradley effect' because I think there are some Republicans who won't openly say they are going to vote for Barack Obama, but will," he said.

Mr Wilder was the first African-American to be elected state governor

The 77-year-old puts that down in part to discontent with Republican President George W Bush, with polls suggesting that up to 90% of registered voters believe the country is on the wrong track.
Recent elections do seem to indicate that the Bradley effect could have gone into reverse.
Research by psychologist Anthony Greenwald and political scientist Bethany Albertson of the University of Washington, suggests Mr Obama benefited from a reverse Bradley effect in 12 states during the primary elections, while the Bradley effect itself was noticeable in only three.
A study by Harvard researcher Daniel Hopkins of 133 gubernatorial and senatorial elections from 1989 to 2006 also showed no recent significant Bradley-Wilder effect.
Other polls, meanwhile, suggest that white Americans have steadily become less reluctant to vote for a black person in the last few decades.
A recent Gallup poll suggested that 9% of Americans would be more likely to vote for Mr Obama because of his race, compared with only 6% who said they would be less likely to vote for him.
'Masterful job'
Mr Wilder also believes Mr Obama is picking his way through the minefield of racial - or post-racial - politics with consummate skill.
He says he gave Mr Obama guidance a year ago - and the Illinois senator seems to have followed it.

John McCain has sought to tone down the rhetoric at campaign rallies

"He never mentions race as such. He doesn't speak to race other than that particular speech, [a speech in March addressing the Jeremiah Wright controversy] in which he did a masterful job," Mr Wilder said.
"He's not running to make history. Is that going to help you [the voter] with your livelihood, pay for your kids' education?"
Mr Wilder also advised Mr Obama not to become too closely allied with longstanding African-American political figures, such as civil rights leaders the Rev Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton.
The key for Mr Obama now is to continue to present the same message of change to all voters, black and white, Mr Wilder adds, and the American voter will be "smarter" than to fall for last-minute attacks on his character.
"If things stay as they are, with effort and commitment and determination and drive he will win," he said. "I always say to people, I hope the Wilder effect takes place in this election, because Wilder won - so if that's the effect it has, Obama wins."

**El Gibbon** · 21-10-2008, 08:40 AM

Colin Powell was offered a chance to participate as a candidate, lots of money behind him and a solid standing amongst republican voters. When he left the administration, and ever since he has maintained that he is done with public political office. A decision reached in concurrence with Ms. Powell and the family.

Powell carries great credibility within Republican circles that are moderate in tone. You might recall he went toe to toe with GWB but was steam-rollered by Rumsfeld and co.

In the rear view mirror I believe that the debacle of Iraq will be laid squarely at Rumsfeld's doorstep. He of the 'brilliant' military strategy that over estimated the military technology AGAIN. After the failure of the CIA's technology he (Rumsfeld) assumed that it was only a CIA problem, when in fact humint cannot be replaced with technology.

Powell was critical of him during his bravado and was subsequently offered up as the scacrifical lamb with the UN mis-information.

A long time Republican I understand where Powell is coming from. I'm pretty sure there are a lot of other 'moderate' Republicans of the same inclination. His endorsement means nothing to me (although I agree with his premise) as I mailed my ballot last Tuesday but others will be swayed to some measure.

I've expressed my feelings that a single election cannot destroy the US. I've been of the inclination that the country needs a change from the arrogance of Bush/Cheney. Bush's decision to include Cheney and Rumsfeld in his administration highlights his lack of understanding of management skills - he learned nothing from his father.

That said there are no sure things in American politics. Obama needs to be clean and covered in teflon during the next two weeks.

E. G.

**attaboy** · 21-10-2008, 09:37 AM

^^It's different this time around. Blacks will come out to vote more than they ever have. Obama has the funds to drive people to the polls in key districts in key states. Look how many he drives to his rallies. He's in the catbird seat. Joe the Plumber has revitalize the opposition. It's going to be close, but it looks good for Obama.

**attaboy** · 21-10-2008, 09:55 AM

Originally Posted by El Gibbon

I've expressed my feelings that a single election cannot destroy the US. I've been of the inclination that the country needs a change from the arrogance of Bush/Cheney. Bush's decision to include Cheney and Rumsfeld in his administration highlights his lack of understanding of management skills - he learned nothing from his father.

Unfortunately, Obama's politics are too far left. If the republicans weren't destined to lose more seats in Congress and if Obama were at least a centrist I could see myself voting for him. I understand that one man can only steer a behemoth so much, but he'll have the Congress packed with Democrats too, enough to bypass a filibuster. He'll get his medical program. Most of corporate America wants to shed the expense of providing medical insurance to employees. His program is a step in that direction. He'll get his Supreme Court picks. I wonder how much he'll buck his constituents? How far will he go with vouchers for public school students?

**GooMaiRoo** · 21-10-2008, 11:16 AM

Originally Posted by Texpat

Powell -- Obama's SecDef?

Powell is respected but still a bit tainted because of his WMD speech at the UN (Powell reportedly said "this is bullsh*t" when looking at the WMD reports the night before his speech). There's some talk that Obama will pick Republican senator and war hero Chuck Hagel for Secretary of Defence. This slightly dated article is speculation but based on insider chatter. It would be a great choice.

Barnstorming Obama plans to pick Republicans for cabinet - Times Online

**Norton** · 21-10-2008, 11:22 AM

"He will have a role as one of my advisers,"Barack Obama said on NBC's "Today" in an interview aired Monday, a day after Powell, a four-star general and President Bush's former secretary of state, endorsed him.
"Whether he wants to take a formal role, whether that's a good fit for him, is something we'd have to discuss," Obama said.

Washington Times - Obama: Powell will have a role in admin

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