Thread: GOP: now & in the future

Originally Posted by Milkman

I think this talk is "politician-talk" by McCain,

It was a childish thing to say. McCain should have retired a few years ago when even lefties thought he was a decent chap with a lifetime of service to his country.

Now his legacy is going to be his awful campaign of 2008 and Sarah Palin.

Originally Posted by robuzo

Interesting take on Frum's predicament by Scott Horton here What Frum?s Firing Tells Us About Politics Today?By Scott Horton (Harper's Magazine) I don't necessarily agree with him about Frum- as John Cole puts it, "Here’s a man who came up with “Axis of Evil”, who wrote a book defending the Iraq War and advocating the same treatment for Syria, and who ultimately endorsed Sarah Palin even though he knew she was completely unqualified. His problem today was timing, not an excess of honesty or nobility."

I'll post the top portion of the article, robuzo.

I don't see this like the author does. Wasn't Frum from Lehman Bros? I must be wrong. It must be a different Frum.

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Archive > 2010 > Jan · Feb · Mar · Apr
March 26, 2:03 PM, 2010 · No Comment · Previous · Next What Frum’s Firing Tells Us About Politics Today

By Scott Horton
I’ve previously suggested that, in terms of tactics, I see the G.O.P. diverging into two main tendencies. One is Karl Rove’s G.O.P., in which short-term partisan gain trumps all other considerations, electoral politics tops policy, and pumping up the base is the instinctive reaction in every contest. Rove’s approach has created the present G.O.P.: an enraged group of largely white, over-40 males with its heaviest concentration in the states of the old Confederacy and in the Mormon Belt of the Mountain West. The alternative is David Frum’s G.O.P., which operates from a clearly defined set of conservative principles, believes in a longer-term strategy focused on building the party back to something approaching a plurality, and is committed to finding a modus vivendi with Democrats that allows the G.O.P. to accomplish at least some of its objectives when it’s out of power. Frum has presented a very compelling case for his views, and were he to prevail, it would produce a G.O.P. that pursues most of the same objectives as before, but behaves differently as it pursues them.
But yesterday, Frum was fired from his $100,000-a-year consultancy at the American Enterprise Institute. That decision tells us a good deal about AEI and the current dynamics within the Republican camp. In today’s AEI, policy experts aren’t there to do analysis and give advice—they’re there to serve as made-to-order propagandists. Differing views are not wanted. This is reinforced by Bruce Bartlett’s report in a post entitled, appropriately, “The Closing of the Conservative Mind”:

Since [Frum] is no longer affiliated with AEI, I feel free to say publicly something he told me in private a few months ago. He asked if I had noticed any comments by AEI “scholars” on the subject of health care reform. I said no and he said that was because they had been ordered not to speak to the media because they agreed with too much of what Obama was trying to do.

Bartlett reminds us that he was himself fired from a conservative think-tank after publishing a book that criticized the Bush Administration’s lack of budgetary discipline. Paul Krugman notes that Bartlett must be right about this. He flags a 2003 Heritage Foundation health-care report that endorses a position suspiciously similar to the bill that Obama just signed into law. And Heritage is generally reckoned still further to the right than AEI. Conor Friedersdorf, on the other hand, checks the record and finds plenty of evidence of AEI health experts, in fact, weighing in on the matter. (UPDATE: Bruce Bartlett has now posted an “apology and clarification” in which he acknowledges having gone too far. He adds this: “With the benefit of hindsight I should have left the charge of muzzling out of my original post because it distracted people from the larger point I was making about the rigidity of thought at conservative think tanks and adherence to the Republican Party line, which I still believe to be the case. The fact that David was fired and the way he was fired is sufficient proof of that.”)

Link same in robuzo post above.

Copy and paste,………..

The former chairman of the Florida Republican Party was arrested and charged with secretly diverting party funds to enrich himself.

With his personal bank account overdrawn by an average of $10,000 a month for much of last year, prosecutors say, the Republican Party of Florida chairman plotted to get his hands on some of the millions in special-interest cash flooding the party.

The scheme: set up a "shell company" called Victory Strategies LLC to secretly divert party fundraising money to himself, according to state prosecutors. He, along with the party's executive director, Delmar W. Johnson III, then made sure no one else knew about it.

But Johnson struck a deal with prosecutors and told them everything.

Greer, 47, was arrested Wednesday morning at his Oviedo home and charged on six felony counts of theft, money laundering and orchestrating a scheme to defraud. He faces a maximum 30 years in prison for money laundering and fraud charges, and a maximum five-year sentence for theft charges.


Florida GOP: http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/06/02/1660847/gop-chief-arrested-in-secret-siphoning.html#ixzz0pm0tigYj

Showdown at the GOP Corral

One way to understand the divisions in the Republican Party is as a clash of regional philosophies. Northeastern conservatism is moderate, accepts the modern welfare state, and dislikes mixing religion with politics. Western conservatism is hawkish, hates government, and embraces individual freedom. Southern conservatism is populist, draws on evangelical Christianity, and plays upon racial resentments. The big drama of the GOP over the past several decades has been the Northeastern view giving way to the Southern one. To see this transformation in a single family, witness the shift from George H.W. Bush to George W. Bush.

Yet since the second Bush left the White House, something different appears to be happening in Republicanland: a shift away from Southern-style conservatism to more of a Western variety. You see this in the figures who have dominated the GOP since Barack Obama's election 19 months ago: Dick Cheney, Sarah Palin, Glenn Beck, and Rand Paul. You see it in the right's overarching theme: opposition to any expanded role for government, whether in promoting economic recovery, extending health care coverage, or regulating financial markets. You see it most strongly in the Tea Party movement that in recent months has captured the party's imagination and driven its agenda.

On many issues, such as guns, taxes, and immigration, Southern and Western conservatives come out in the same place. They get there, however, by different means. The fundamental distinction is between a politics based on social and cultural issues and one based on economics. Southern conservatives care about government's moral stance but don't mind when it spends freely on behalf of their constituents. Western conservatives, by contrast, are soft-libertarians who want government out of people's way on principle. Southern Republicans are guided by the Bible. Western Republicans read the Constitution. Seen in historical terms, it's the difference between a movement descended from George Wallace and one that harks back to Barry Goldwater.


.... The new Western conservatism is not simply a reincarnation of the old Goldwater version. Lacking anti-communism as an organizing principle, it has been forced to invent a collectivistic demon, depicting Obama's centrist liberalism as socialism with American face. Where the old Western conservatives had serious thinkers lurking in the background—Harry Jaffa, the Straussian political philosopher, wrote Goldwater's famous convention speech—the new wave is authentically anti-intellectual. At the same time, Western conservatism has become more inclusive. The embodiment of its frontier spirit is now a woman who proclaims, "There's plenty of room for all Alaska's animals—right next to the mashed potatoes."

Palin and Beck are terrific entertainers and the Tea Party is a great show, all of which has made the conservative movement fun to watch lately. But cowboy-style constitutional fundamentalism is unlikely to prove a winning philosophy for Republicans beyond 2010. For that, they need a conservatism that hasn't been in evidence lately—a version that's not Western or Southern, but instead tolerant, moderate, and mainstream.

Western conservatives and Southern conservatives battle for the soul of the Republican Party. - By Jacob Weisberg - Slate Magazine


"Tolerant, moderate, and mainstream" are not words that defines the Tea party end of the GOP. Populist and anti-intellectual are words that do. Can this sort of political philosophy carry a country as diverse as the modern US? I'm certainly not alone in doubting that.

The current situation in both parties has given voice to their extremists, this should quiet down when and if the crisisis are over.
Hard to visualizr how a popular 3rd party would effect the country.

I think they would sell their own children for a price.

Columbus, Ohio (CNN) - The White House on Friday continued its assault on controversial comments made by Rep. Joe Barton, R-Texas.

At a hearing on Capital Hill Thursday, Barton apologized to BP executives and said that the White House was trying to "shakedown" the company for a $20 billion fund to help with the aftermath of the Gulf oil spill. Barton later issued an apology for the statement.

During a gaggle aboard Air Force One Friday, Deputy Press Secretary Bill Burton said he "saw the tourtured construction" of Barton's apology for his initial statement, calling it "an example of what some folks in the Republican party truly believe."

Burton then warned of the consequences of a Republican controlled Congress, pointing out that Barton would be chairman of the powerful House Energy and Commerce Committee.

"This is something people should be considering" during the upcoming midterm elections, he said.



Link: http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2010/06/18/white-house-keeps-hitting-barton/?fbid=9Oh7MUp3evO

^ He just spoke the truth. True, BP is to blame, but they already said from the start they would pay. No companies, no tax revenues. The world is watching; you think companies want to transfer to the US under obama's dictatorial regime? That's why the GOP needs to take back Congress. SC Dem candidate Al Greene epitomises the stupidity of the libbie party. Wait...throw Pelosi, Boxer and Reid into that box.

Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon

He just spoke the truth.

I am sure all the affected folks along the gulf coast were thrilled to see the ranking Republican on the E&C Committee apologising to BP! You don't think that it was a *bit* insulting to the victims of BP's negligence?

Boehner made him apologise for the apology because the narrative they are trying to craft is that Obama is cosy with/going soft on BP. It's amateur hour at the GOP nowadays - they can't control their own message.

^ Mebbe. I reckoned he was just telling the truth; hard to make your own stand when the world is against you. I applaud him for having the guts to do so.

I think people are realising that it's not just BP, but all corps and big biz that are in the cross-hairs of obama's control policy.

This is a scream! The dead party hangers going over the minutes of the latest failure.

The Dems are the losers this year and in 2012. And hopefully, forever. It'll take years to unravel the bladdy mess obama and his libbie Congress created in just over a year.
Your best hope, toe:

I wonder why this guy, Rubio hasn’t been tossed out of the Republican Party yet?

WASHINGTON — Republican U.S. Senate candidate Marco Rubio and another Miami politician are facing foreclosure on a Tallahassee home they co-own for failing to make mortgage payments since January, Leon County court records show.


The Deutsche Bank National Trust Company initiated foreclosure proceedings on the home owned by Rubio and state Rep. David Rivera, who is running for Congress. Rubio, a former state House speaker, and Rivera lived in the home when they were in Tallahassee for legislative sessions and other business.

Link: POLL: Marco Rubio in more financial hot water, faces foreclosure

Originally Posted by S Landreth

I wonder why this guy, Rubio hasn’t been tossed out of the Republican Party yet?

WASHINGTON — Republican U.S. Senate candidate Marco Rubio and another Miami politician are facing foreclosure on a Tallahassee home they co-own for failing to make mortgage payments since January, Leon County court records show.

Sure, don't forget he charged a haircut and a fast-food meal on his Rep account. Pfft. You have enough cheaters on the Dem side. Start with Rangel and work your way down.
This is just fodder to take folks' minds off the bigger issues, like obama's inability to organise the Gulf's clean-up.

jet, do you have any intention of addressing the fact that rubio is facing foreclosure on his property...or are you simply going to try and distract by bringing up obama, democrats, and whatever else?

if you do address the issue, don't forget to keep in mind all your past comments about those facing foreclosure.

^ Hek, why should Rubio have to pay? obama will pay, won't he? He pays everybody else's mortgages. Or does he only pay welfare libbies' mortgages? You want scandal, there's plenty in Florida that taints Crist and Meeks, too.

Corruption scandals are shaking up Florida Senate campaign - TheHill.com

Again, just a distraction from the big issues, and likely a Crist ploy to damage Rubio.

Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon

obama

Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon

libbies

Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon

Crist

Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon

Meeks

the title of this thread is the "GOP: now and in the future" what do any of the above have to do with the thread title?

Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon

Hek, why should Rubio have to pay?

why should he have to pay his mortgage?

you don't think a senate candidate should be responsible for paying his mortgage?

also, do you remember all the posts you made in which you cast aspersions on people facing foreclosure? do those same characterizations apply to rubio? and if not, why not?

Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon

likely a Crist ploy to damage Rubio.

a crist ploy?

i can't wait to read your post in which you detail this conspiracy theory.

From it's inception as a single purpose anti-Healthcare pressure group funded by Lobby money, to it's nurturing as a Right wing pressure group, where prominent Republican politicians would not disassociate themselves from even it most rabid voices (such as Birthers), the GOP has through sheer neglect, or short term expedience, proliferated a flesh eating monsta. Specifically, one that is eating their own flesh from within. Hardly like Teabaggers are going to dislodge many Democrat voters is it- those that are dislodged would almost always be toward the moderate or centrist end of the GOP, which is certainly not the Teabaggers. So basically, it is just splitting the GOP.

This looks like it will be highly damaging for them at the November mid term elections. The Teabaggers have no coherent voice or message, remain electorally untested, and have in their ranks most of the vocal nutcases in contemporary US politics. As seems to be a common theme these days, the bombastic right wing media- people like Limbaugh, Beck, Coulter etc- are fanning the flames. Really the whole phenomenon is receiving way too much media space, and to the ultimate detriment of the GOP.

The Tea Party has a voice: Follow and respect the Constitution. No big government. Don't force us to buy products we don't want, like HC. Do the key job you are supposed to, Feds: protect the borders and the citizens.
Too simple for the lefties to understand.
Gee, SB, for being losers, more and more of the candidates they support are getting elected. Fox News and those awful right-wing radio/Internet folks are fanning the flames? Pretty funny when you consider that the bulk of all US media is leftie, but even some of them are seeing the light and complaining about the govt these days.
Sure, the GOP needs revamping, but is Bobby Jindal doing a bad job? He's the only politician who's taken action in the Gulf and people across the nation love him for it. He's da man.

A bank began foreclosure proceedings this week on a Tallahassee home co-owned by Marco Rubio, the Republican candidate for the Senate, after he failed to pay his mortgage for five months, according to court documents.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/19/us...ANDID_BRF.html

he didn't pay his mortgage for five months.

why don't these teabaggers believe in personal responsibility?

Just someone’s opinion,……………


The Center for American Politics' Ruy Teixeira, one of the top political demographers in the country, has a new paper out in which he examines the two major party coalitions, with a focus on the current and future prospects of the Republican Party. For the GOP, says Teixeira, things look grim, in large part because the country is becoming less white and more educated. He provides specific data showing how college educated voters are growing, and non-college educated shrinking, as shares of the electorate; likewise for the growing non-white v. shrinking white populations.

"The Democratic Party will become even more dominated by the emerging constituencies that gave Barack Obama his historic 2008 victory, while the Republican Party will be forced to move toward the center to compete for these constituencies. As a result, modern conservatism is likely to lose its dominant place in the GOP," he writes, adding that "the Republican Party as currently constituted is in need of serious and substantial changes in approach."(Emphasis mine; will return to this point momentarily)

(snip)

Specifically, he recommends that the GOP do some or all of the following (taken verbatim from the report):

Move to the center on social issues

Pay attention to whites with some college education and to young white working-class voters in general

Another demographic target should be white college graduates, especially those with a four-year degree only

In the long run the GOP has to have serious solutions of its own that go beyond cutting taxes

Full story: http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2010/06/emerging-republican-minority.html