Thread: VP Picks

Originally Posted by pai nai ma

McCain's staff are predicting a 15 point bump

i'm surprised they didn't say 20.

it's all about raising expectations to a point that can't be met...."oh my god, obama only got an 8 to 10 point bump after the convention, something must be wrong with the campaign because it's not 15".

Originally Posted by britmaveric

Awful pick - Repubs are going to slaughter Obama now.

based on what?

his being chairman of the foreign relations committe?
his 8 trips to iraq in recent years?
his most recent trip to georgia?
his personal story---the tragic death of his family which will play well with women voters?

Well suppose it will be entertaining as Obama goes down in flames - this lad is a fool who constantly sticks his foot in his gob.

The Case Against Joe Biden

Yesterday we argued for why Barack Obama should pick Joe Biden as his vice presidential running mate. Today we tackle the opposite argument.
Loose Lips Sink Ships

Over the course of his presidential bid, Biden cemented his reputation as -- how to put this nicely? -- less than disciplined on the campaign trail.


In the summer of 2006, as he was publicly mulling the race, Biden set off a controversy over comments he made about Indian Americans.
"I've had a great relationship [with Indian Americans]," Biden said. "In Delaware, the largest growth in population is Indian-Americans moving from India. You cannot go to a 7-Eleven or a Dunkin' Donuts unless you have a slight Indian accent. I'm not joking."
On the day he formally announced his candidacy, a New York Observer story that quoted Biden as calling Obama "articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy" came out, and the resultant uproar effectively undercut any momentum Biden was hoping to build.

Sen. Joseph R. Biden Jr. (D-Del.), chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee, talks to Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) during the hearing.
While Biden was on his best verbal behavior for much of the rest of the campaign, there is no question that his tendency to shoot from the lip worries some in Obama world. As one Democratic consultant put it: "You know there will be three days in the campaign where someone in Chicago will get a call and respond -- 'What did you say he said?.'"


For a campaign that prides itself on its message discipline, choosing Biden would be introducing a wildcard into the mix. The Obama campaign exudes quiet confidence that if they do the basic political work between now and Nov. 4 the Illinois senator will be president. Do they really want to risk it with Biden?

Plagiarizer In Chief
Way back in 1987, Biden was riding high in the presidential race -- widely regarded as a serious contenders for the Democratic party's nod.
Then Neil Kinnock happened. Biden borrowed passages of a speech given by Kinnock, a leader in Britain's Labour Party, without attribution -- a mistake that led to a detailed examination of Biden's public statements that turned up several more examples of potential plagiarism and resume inflation. The feeding frenzy eventually chased the Delaware senator from the race.


The incident has become the stuff of political lore -- type "Joe Biden and Neil Kinnock" into Google and more than 37,000 hits are returned -- even though those close to Biden insist that the actual facts surrounding the incidents are largely overblown.


Maybe. But, while any political junkie worth his (or her) name knows all about the Kinnock incident, it's a mistake to assume the average voter knows about it. In the words of one Republican strategist: "Old news inside the Beltway, new news outside."


That reality means that in every story about Biden done in the aftermath of his selection, Kinnock's name and the allegations of plagiarism would come up. It would complicate the desired flawless roll-out of the new ticket and could even raise questions about Obama's commitment to a new kind of politics.
Washington Insider


The central tenet of Obama's campaign message is that if Americans want to change their government, then they have to change the people they send to Washington.


Picking Biden, who has served in the Senate for the better part of the last four decades, seems to run counter to that core message. Biden was elected to the Senate at age 29 and spent only four years after graduating from Syracuse Law School in 1968 working in the private sector before entering public life.
Biden has long been a regular on the Sunday talk show circuit and is one of the pillars of the Democratic party establishment. His accomplishments -- of which there are many -- all were achieved as a senator operating inside the deepest heart of political Washington.


Biden allies note that despite his long service in Washington he is, at his core, an outsider inside the Beltway. While that may well be true, the optics for Obama aren't great; he can't change the fact that in picking Biden he would be going with someone who has spent nearly his entire adult life not only in politics but as a member of the world's greatest deliberative body.

Joe Loves Joe
One of the most overlooked episodes during the 1987 collapse of Biden's campaign was a snippet of footage captured by C-Span in which the Delaware senator, in response to a question about where he went to law school and what sort of grades he received, delivered this classic line: "I think I have a much higher IQ than you do."


While any human being -- especially a candidate for president who is constantly being poked and prodded -- can be forgiven a momentary flash of temper, Biden's detractors point to that incident as evidence that the senator thinks he is the bee's knees and doesn't care who knows it.


Biden, by his own admission, has the capacity to fall in love with his own voice and wander off on tangents about his life that have nothing to do with the topic at hand.


During the 2006 confirmation hearings for Supreme Court Justice Samuel Alito, the Post's Dana Milbank wrote this of Biden's performance:
"Sen. Joseph R. Biden Jr., in his first 12 minutes of questioning the nominee, managed to get off only one question. Instead, during his 30-minute round of questioning, Biden spoke about his own Irish American roots, his "Grandfather Finnegan," his son's application to Princeton (he attended the University of Pennsylvania instead, Biden said), a speech the senator gave on the Princeton campus, the fact that Biden is "not a Princeton fan," and his views on the eyeglasses of Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.)."
Ouch.


There is evidence from the Democratic primaries that Biden is not only aware of his tendency to go on (and on) about himself but is also able to curb that natural tendency, however. In one of the best moments in an unending series of Democratic debates, Biden was asked by moderator Brian Williams whether he possessed the "discipline" to be the leader of the free world. Biden's simple response -- "yes" -- brought the house down and put the Delaware senator in The Fix's "winners" column for the night.


The Case Against Joe Biden - The Fix

this is probably asking too much of brit, but can't he even come up with a reason biden is a bad pick based on policy?

btw, thanks for this link included in your post....

The Case for Joe Biden

Foreign Policy First
There's no one in the Democratic Party who knows more about foreign policy and is as comfortable speaking about it as Biden.
Biden has done several stints as chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee and during the Democratic primaries he spoke passionately and intelligently about Iraq while also framing the way in which America needs to position itself in the post-9/11 world.
For Obama, whose only obvious weakness in the race is his light foreign policy resume, Biden would provide an immediate boost and badly complicate John McCain's attempts to paint the Illinois senator as ill-prepared to represent the United States on the world stage.
Here's a snippet from Biden's comments about McCain during a conference call last month: "He doesn't get it. The mere fact that you would have someone compare the circumstances now, in the past, or in the future, of Iraq to the ending of World War II and the ending of the Korean war absolutely demonstrates a total fundamental lack of understanding of what the problems America faces."
That quote (and others like it) suggest Biden can -- and would -- go toe to toe with McCain (and whoever the Arizona Senator chooses as his running mate) over conflicts across the world, relationships with foreign leaders and vision for the future of the country.
One other potential foreign policy benefit to Obama in picking Biden. The Delaware senator has known McCain for the better part of three decades, meaning that he knows ever nook and cranny, every nuance of the positions that the Arizona Senator has taken over that time. That means the Obama campaign can call McCain on any sort of foreign policy flip flop by using Biden, a credible messenger on the issues.

Average Joe
It's a strange thing to say about a guy who has spent 36 years in the Senate but Biden genuinely has appeal to the blue-collar, working class voters that Obama struggled to attract during the Democratic primaries.
Maybe it's Biden roots in hard-scrabble Scranton, Pennsylvania. (Hello, Michael Scott!) Maybe it's the fact that Biden takes Amtrak home to Delaware every night and knows the name of all the conductors and ticket agents on the route. Maybe it's the fact that his personal story -- his wife and daughter were killed a month after he was elected to the Senate in 1972 -- resonates with people who have suffered similar losses.
Regardless of what it is, there's little question that, in the words of one Biden advocate, he passed the "have a beer" test. That is, Biden is the kind of guy most voters can imagine themselves having a beer (or, heck, a boilermaker) with -- a crucial hurdle when it comes to electing a president. (George W. Bush, widely dismissed by elites, was elected to two terms due in no small part because he was perceived as far more of a regular guy than either Al Gore or John Kerry.)
Biden's ability to connect with blue collar voters would almost certainly help Obama in Pennsylvania (aside from Biden's roots in Scranton, he has been a regular figure on Philadelphia television during his campaigns) as well as potentially in Ohio and Michigan as well.
It's also worth noting that Biden is a strong Catholic. Obama lost white Catholics badly to Hillary Rodham Clinton during the primary season and, as Post pollster Jon Cohen notes, white Catholics have emerged as one of the bellwether groups in recent elections; the candidate who wins white Catholics has won the presidency in every election since 1972.

Charismatic Campaigner
It's hard to remember now but back in 1987 when Biden first ran for president he was the hottest commodity in the Democratic Party -- the bright young star who would lead on the national stage for years to come.
That wasn't to be but in the intervening years Biden has lost none of his charisma and ability while adding the heft that comes with decades spent in the political mix.
During the primary season, Biden surprised many observers -- The Fix included -- by winning a number of crucial endorsements in Iowa despite the fact he was a decided longshot. In fact, in the days leading up to the caucuses, there was some buzz that Biden could shock the world and end up in the top three thanks to the energetic and effective campaign he ran.
Ultimately Biden fell well short, a finish that had more to do with his inability/unwillingness to raise the money necessary to compete with the Big Three of Obama, Clinton and former senator John Edwards (N.C.) than his own campaign skills.
As the vice presidential nominee to a candidate who looks likely to shatter every fundraising record there is, Biden will be freed from the burden of cash-collection and will be allowed to devote full time to stumping for the ticket.
And, when it comes to the crucial vice presidential debate on Oct. 2 in St. Louis, it's hard to imagine a more tested and able candidate than Biden. Biden got almost no air time during the nearly two dozen Democratic debates (as befitted his second tier status) but was still able to make lemonade out of lemons more often than not.
He thinks quickly on his feet, is extremely well versed on the issues of the day, and, most importantly, knows how to inject a bit of humor into the proceedings. The only knock? Biden tends to be a bit long-winded -- but more on that tomorrow in the case against him.

Attack Dog
There aren't all that many tasks for the vice president. Advocate for the presidential nominee, stump in off-the-beaten track places, and, most importantly, attack the other party's candidate.
Recent political history is littered with vice presidents who either couldn't or wouldn't play the attack dog role. Allies of Kerry (Mass.) still complain that Edwards didn't do enough to hit President Bush and Vice President Cheney during the 2004 campaign -- perhaps out of fear of hurting his own presidential chances if Kerry came up short.
Biden's main rival at this point for the vice presidency -- Indiana Sen. Evan Bayh -- has been dogged by questions of whether picking him would be a repeat of Kerry naming Edwards; Bayh, a tremendously popular figure in Indiana politics, hasn't had a race in which he had to get down and dirty, well, ever, and is clearly interested in being president down the line.
Biden, on the other hand, will be 66 years old when and if Obama is sworn in next January and, according to various sources on Capitol Hill, is perfectly content to spend the remainder of his days as chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee. In other words: He has exorcised the presidential bug.
Picking Biden then would virtually ensure that Obama would not have to worry about whether the vice president was constantly trying to position for a national race of his own down the road.
Add to that Biden's clear willingness to deliver attacks. During the primaries, Biden was one of the rare candidates willing to throw an elbow from time to time -- although always with a smile on his face and a kind word for his foe.
In that, Biden most closely resembles Sen. Joe Lieberman (I-Ct.) whose polite demeanor masks a hard-edged commitment to delivering sharp and effective attacks. Given the real potential that Lieberman could be McCain's pick, Obama would be smart to go with Biden to neutralize the Connecticut Senator's well-earned reputation as a skilled attacker.

too bad jet.

it's a shame you didn't stick with your initial pick.

Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon

BO may pick Hilly

Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon

maybe he'll pick Hilldenbrand

BBC NEWS | Americas | Obama picks Biden as running-mate

Obama picks Biden as running-mate


Mr Biden's foreign policy clout would aid Mr Obama, analysts say

US Democratic presidential hopeful Barack Obama has announced that Joe Biden will be his running mate in November's election.
Mr Obama's choice, confirmed on his website, comes ahead of next week's Democratic Party convention.
Mr Biden, a 65-year-old veteran lawmaker, has three decades of Senate experience and is highly respected on foreign policy issues.

.................................................. .............................................

He's old enough to be NcCain's son

Originally Posted by Begbie

He's old enough to be NcCain's son

Kind of kills raycarey's blindly incessant ageism slurs doesn't it?

Analysis: Biden pick shows lack of confidence

DENVER – The candidate of change went with the status quo.
In picking Sen. Joe Biden to be his running mate, Barack Obama sought to shore up his weakness — inexperience in office and on foreign policy — rather than underscore his strength as a new-generation candidate defying political conventions.

The picks say something profound about Obama: For all his self-confidence, the 47-year-old Illinois senator worried that he couldn't beat Republican John McCain without help from a seasoned politician willing to attack. The Biden selection is the next logistical step in an Obama campaign that has become more negative — a strategic decision that may be necessary but threatens to run counter to his image.

Analysis: Biden pick shows lack of confidence - Yahoo! News

Originally Posted by raycarey

this is probably asking too much of brit, but can't he even come up with a reason biden is a bad pick based on policy?

btw, thanks for this link included in your post....

The Case for Joe Biden

Foreign Policy First
Here's a snippet from Biden's comments about McCain during a conference call last month: "He doesn't get it. The mere fact that you would have someone compare the circumstances now, in the past, or in the future, of Iraq to the ending of World War II and the ending of the Korean war absolutely demonstrates a total fundamental lack of understanding of what the problems America faces."

Those who ignore history are condemned to repeat it. McCain does well to draw parallels.

Originally Posted by raycarey

too bad jet.
it's a shame you didn't stick with your initial pick.

That was my joke pick. Still sore I picked Biden way before you found an answer in The Huffington Post or whatever other leftie rag you read? Poor ray, an also-ran again.

Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon

That was my joke pick.

oh ok.

your 'joke' pick.




i must have missed you mentioning that it was a 'joke pick' in the multiple posts where you picked hillary as obama's VP.

Choice of Biden as VP candidate praised overseas

ACCRA, Ghana – From confronting Russia to dealing with climate change, Barack Obama's selection of Sen. Joe Biden as his vice presidential candidate Saturday was seen abroad as adding weight and depth to the foreign policy of a potential Obama administration.

Choice of Biden as VP candidate praised overseas - Yahoo! News

Seems the rest of world is happy with this choice. But then, they're easy to please. Any liberal is a good choice for them.

Originally Posted by Thormaturge

I was impressed to hear Binden refer to Obama as "Barak America" LOL Probably not a good idea to try portraying McCain as doddery.

Plus there was Obama introducing Binden as "The next President of America". Yes, we know, poor Obama needs someone experienced to tell him how to do the job. LOL

Anyway we now know from these Freudian slips that Obama feels inferior to Binden who, in turn, believes Obama will be representing Black America.

Glad we got that straightened out.

I'm a great Laurel and Hardy fan so I'm looking forward to the Democrat convention.

Yep. Some lovely gaffes at that speech. Took Biden long enough to get around to BO, too. Who's running for president?

Originally Posted by raycarey

Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon

That was my joke pick.

oh ok.

your 'joke' pick.




i must have missed you mentioning that it was a 'joke pick' in the multiple posts where you picked hillary as obama's VP.

555 Just a sore loser eh, ray? Don't forget I picked Biden way before you did. Yep, it was a joke pick, but go and have your playground fun. Don't forget to take your marbles home with you. Gotta keep your brain filled.

Jet, you can't simply be that ignorant as a "black woman", or else you could re-enforce the stereotype that any "good" conservatives might have about poorly educated blacks,

you can't seriously believe any of the crap you are saying,

A good choice by Obama - not sure how helpful Biden will be in governing the country but for the election he is a good choice.
We all know that the VP becomes fairly obsolete once the circus is over and that one man - the VP elect - does not weigh in with policy suggestions that count - it s the numerous advisers who do that . . . so, why keep up the charade?
Because a 47-year old is considered too 'young' to hold an important office?

Hahahaha, yes, I'd rather have an Alzheimer-prone geriatric in charge.

Poor choice, and his gaffs will only make it worse for poor old Obama. He had a chance, but this shows he's not about change like he's been chanting for months. Poor decision maker and has a fear of his own pronounced weaknesses which certainly are still there. He doesn't even know he's running for president - he thinks Biden is.

Obamas 'Change' and McCains 'Maverick' rhetoric soon got watered down by the realities of politics.

I think Biden was the 'winningest' choice, and it is probably true that his credentials on paper are stronger for Pres than Obamas (and certainly McCains) - but Barry was swept in quite decisively.

Originally Posted by britmaveric

Poor choice, and his gaffs will only make it worse for poor old Obama.

Who do you recommend, Brit?

Gaffs hopefully won't happen in the next 10 weeks, as he has handlers. Many so-called gaffs, are not that bad, and IMO, not even gaffs.

He had a chance

How? With who?

but this shows he's not about change like he's been chanting for months.

Obama was never about change? Where did you hear this? The "Change" banner-slogan. This is very old in American politics. It means nothing.

Poor decision maker and has a fear of his own pronounced weaknesses which certainly are still there. He doesn't even know he's running for president - he thinks Biden is.

Where do you read this, Brit?

You analysis is very shallow and you seem very poorly read and uneducated.

Milk I'll put my multiple degree(s) against yours any day mate

Originally Posted by britmaveric

Milk I'll put my multiple degree(s) against yours any day mate

Please answer the question. Both of our posts won't be around long.

Please answer. Thanks in advance, TIA.

I did ask questions ---> can you answer them? ---> ARE you going to answer them?

Milk:

If Obama wanted to win its obvious he should have picked Hillary - this is where he made his major blunder.

Gaffs even came when he was announced as VP, got Obama's name wrong. Sorry he can't help himself.

Obama had a chance, if he picked Hillary - his fate is sealed now.

Change mantra has been toting since he started - new way of politics, not the old politics of washington - even though he is part of it. Selecting Biden just reinforces that he is no different than any of the others in washington. (not surprised but smth he has been totally against since he started running for president)

Selection of Biden was a poor choice and he reacted to what the polls are telling him - this selection was obviously a response to the Georgia crisis and his european tour. It didnt help him, probably hurt him in the end. Selecting Biden he hopes will stop the blood loss, but ironic could have been avoided by selecting Hillary. Hence the poor decison maker.

Originally Posted by britmaveric

If Obama wanted to win its obvious he should have picked Hillary - this is where he made his major blunder.

Gotta say, agree. Polls always had Obama/Clinton way ahead of mcC, but level on his own. From what I have seen, its level now, and McC picking up steam.

I think they will crucify him on his choice- both by using the words out of Bidens own mouth as well as harping on that as someone who touts reaching "across the aisle", he could not reach across his own party to heal what was a clearly devisive breach.

To me, it looks like Obamas major blunder, and one that could put McC in the driving seat.

Originally Posted by britmaveric

Milk:

If Obama wanted to win its obvious he should have picked Hillary - this is where he made his major blunder.

2 points above.

1. I think Obama wants to win - that's why he decided to run.

2. blunder on not picking Hillary: I think there are some factors involved.

Gaffs even came when he was announced as VP, got Obama's name wrong. Sorry he can't help himself.

Verbal gaffs don't affect voters decisions, statistically. Remember folks, this race is about Obama and McCain. The VPs are cheerleaders that add image and icing to the Presidential candidates cake.

In a couple of weeks, the VP's won't be discussed that much, IMO.

Obama had a chance, if he picked Hillary - his fate is sealed now.

Speculation.

But there is no reason to speculate. VP picks, are VP picks.

And yes, Brit, a certain percentage of Hillary supporters are voting for McCain as of current polling data. Enough, to make a tight state go to McCain.

But again, I'm speculating on what may happen in 11 weeks.