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  1. #1
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    US National Govt. Debt



    There's already a thread on the U.S. national debt, but good topic, Property.

    I'm no expert but the annual deficits (gov spending more than it takes in from tax revenue) and up adding to the total Nation Debt.

    Dick Cheney says, "deficits don't matter."

    Many economists say there is only so much debt any particular nation can handle before there are negative consequences.

    And yes, the GOP Republicans are a party of big government and big spending.

    ^ Merge them then dear boy.

    US debt is a big problem.
    There are three kinds- government, corporate, and household.
    Each a big problem.

    Say goodbye to Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security!

    There'll be almost nothing left in a generation (after trillions in debt from the Iraq war and 2 million Americans losing their homes in the sub-prime crisis) and all the aging boomers have sucked them dry.

    Perhaps Republicans like Cheney and Bush wanted to bankrupt these entitlements on purpose, but in any case all projections paint them as currently unsustainable.

    Sad.
    Last edited by barbaro; 18-01-2008 at 12:48 AM.

  2. #2
    I don't know barbaro's Avatar
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    Long time no see, Hootad. This thread has some age. Wish Hootad was here.

    Here is the latest. Raising the ceiling for the 3rd time in two years. Problem? Yes, and the rest of the world thinks so, too.

    Senate must raise debt ceiling above $12T


    By Walter Alarkon - 09/07/09 12:11 PM ET


    The Senate must move legislation to raise the federal debt limit beyond $12.1 trillion by mid-October, a move viewed as necessary despite protests about the record levels of red ink.

    The move will highlight the nation’s record debt, which has been central to Republican attacks against Democratic congressional leaders and President Barack Obama. The year’s deficit is expected to hit a record $1.6 trillion.







    Democrats in control of Congress, including then-Sen. Obama (Ill.), blasted President George W. Bush for failing to contain spending when he oversaw increased deficits and raised the debt ceiling.

    “Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren,” Obama said in a 2006 floor speech that preceded a Senate vote to extend the debt limit. “America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.”

    Obama later joined his Democratic colleagues in voting en bloc against raising the debt increase.

    Now Obama is asking Congress to raise the debt ceiling, something lawmakers are almost certain to do despite misgivings about the federal debt. The ceiling already has been hiked three times in the past two years, and the House took action earlier this year to raise the ceiling to $13 trillion.

    Congress has little choice. Failing to raise the cap could lead the nation to default in mid-October, when the debt is expected to exceed its limit, Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner has said. In August, Geithner asked Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) to increase the debt limit as soon as possible.

    Changing the debt cap “does provide an opportunity to look at fiscal policy and what its failings are, and ideally it could give both sides an opportunity to think about what we need to do so we don't keep raising the debt limit,” said Robert Bixby, the executive director of the Concord Coalition, a fiscal watchdog group.

    “But probably as a practical matter, it will get more attention as a partisan back-and-forth,” Bixby said.

    When the House raised the debt limit to $13 trillion as part of a budget resolution approved in April, Democratic leaders used a maneuver known as the “Gephardt rule,” named after former House Democratic Leader Dick Gephardt (Mo.), to avoid taking a roll call vote on the debt limit increase.

    The Senate isn’t so lucky. It lacks a similar mechanism, meaning each senator must cast a politically perilous vote on raising the debt ceiling.

    The Senate Finance Committee will “carefully review Treasury's request on behalf of the American taxpayers,” according to an aide to the committee's chairman, Sen. Max Baucus (D-Mont.).

    “Sen. Baucus understands the critical importance of signaling to the world that the U.S. maintains the confidence and security to continue to lead the global economy out of recession,” the Baucus aide said. “The request to raise the debt limit is serious and must be addressed thoroughly and in a nonpartisan manner.”

    The aide noted that Baucus is pressing the Treasury Department to be more transparent about its efforts to pull the economy out of recession.

    “He will continue to demand the necessary communication and cooperation going forward,” the aide said.

    Both the White House and the independent Congressional Budget Office last month said that they expect the debt to increase by another $9 trillion over the next decade. Should the Senate follow the House's lead and set the new debt limit at $13 trillion, lawmakers would probably have to raise the limit again next year, when the Obama administration expects to run a $1.5 trillion deficit.

    The business community has supported Geithner's push for a higher debt ceiling. Bruce Josten, the top lobbyist for the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, said it's essential to the U.S. economy.

    “If we fail to address this in a timely fashion, then you run the risk of having to curtail government operations,” Josten said. “The last thing our economy and the world economy needs is greater uncertainty throughout global credit markets.”
    LInk & Entire: Senate must raise debt ceiling above $12T - TheHill.com

  3. #3
    Banned Muadib's Avatar
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    Is this a rhetorical question???

    Everyone in the US just keeps going along, business as usual... Sooner or later the excrement is going to hit the air-con unit... Just a matter of when...

    Sorry, nothing more lucid as I'm posting dunk-dunk again and trying to stay out of the slammer...
    Give a man a match, and he'll be warm for a minute, but set him on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

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    Stockman reminds us that the debt ceiling will be triggered on March 15th.

    So, the National debt (which annual interest payment must be made and are made) and the stock market bubble.

    In about 7 days the Mainstream media will start reporting on the debt ceiling in the US.



    Stockman: "After March 15 Everything Will Grind To A Halt"



    by Tyler Durden
    Feb 26, 2017

    Two weeks after David Stockman warned that "the market is apparently pricing in a huge Trump stimulus. But if you just look at the real world out there, the only thing that's going to happen is a fiscal bloodbath and a White House train wreck like never before in U.S. history" and exclaimed that, when looking at markets, "what's going on today is complete insanity" he is back with another interview, this time with Greg Hunter of USAWatchdog in which he, once again warns, that a giant fiscal bloodbatch is coming soon, and urges listeners to pay especially close attention to the March 15, 2017 debt ceiling deadling, at which point everything could "grind to a halt."

    As Greg Hunter writes, former Reagan Administration White House Budget Director David Stockman says financial pain is a mathematical certainty. Stockman explains, “I think we are likely to have more of a fiscal bloodbath rather than fiscal stimulus. Unfortunately for Donald Trump, not only did the public vote the establishment out, they left on his doorstep the inheritance of 30 years of debt build-up and a fiscal policy that’s been really reckless in the extreme. People would like to think he’s the second coming of Ronald Reagan and we are going to have morning in America. Unfortunately, I don’t think it looks that promising because Trump is inheriting a mess that pales into insignificance what we had to deal with in January of 1981 when I joined the Reagan White House as Budget Director.”

    So, can the Trump bump in the stock market keep going? Stockman, who wrote a book titled “Trumped” predicting a Trump victory in 2016, says, “I don’t think there is a snowball’s chance in the hot place that’s going to happen. This is delusional. This is the greatest suckers’ rally of all time. It is based on pure hopium and not any analysis at all as what it will take to push through a big tax cut. Donald Trump is in a trap. Today the debt is $20 trillion. It’s 106% of GDP. . . .

    Trump is inheriting a built-in deficit of $10 trillion over the next decade under current policies that are built in. Yet, he wants more defense spending, not less. He wants drastic sweeping tax cuts for corporations and individuals. He wants to spend more money on border security and law enforcement. He’s going to do more for the veterans. He wants this big trillion dollar infrastructure program. You put all that together and it’s madness. It doesn’t even begin to add up, and it won’t happen when you are struggling with the $10 trillion of debt that’s coming down the pike and the $20 trillion that’s already on the books.”


    Then, Stockman drops this bomb and says:

    “I think what people are missing is this date, March 15th 2017.
    That’s the day that this debt ceiling holiday that Obama and Boehner put together right before the last election in October of 2015. That holiday expires. The debt ceiling will freeze in at $20 trillion. It will then be law. It will be a hard stop. The Treasury will have roughly $200 billion in cash. We are burning cash at a $75 billion a month rate. By summer, they will be out of cash. Then we will be in the mother of all debt ceiling crises. Everything will grind to a halt. I think we will have a government shutdown. There will not be Obama Care repeal and replace. There will be no tax cut. There will be no infrastructure stimulus. There will be just one giant fiscal bloodbath over a debt ceiling that has to be increased and no one wants to vote for.”

    Stockman: "After March 15 Everything Will Grind To A Halt" | Zero Hedge

  5. #5
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    They will just bomb the fuck out of somewhere else
    That usually does it

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbobs View Post
    They will just bomb the fuck out of somewhere else
    That usually does it
    Sadly,

    The US pressured and got the right for OPEC to use oil transactions in USD. That meant more nations would hold the Greenback in their reserves and since the US went off the Gold Standard --> did both at basically the same time.

    The US could run annual deficits and inrease its national debt to perpetuate continuous wars and fund its warfare machine.

    But the with coming debt ceiling (which I think they'll get around somewhere) the US would be limited.

    They will get around it some how.

    Many have argued against a "balanced budget Amendment" because the govt would just change the definition of what a 'balanced budget it.'


    Regardless, the US will hit the wall eventually.

  7. #7
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    Bumping an eight year old thread. I wish the dog was still alive he hated people who bumped necro threads.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsnub View Post
    Bumping an eight year old thread. I wish the dog was still alive he hated people who bumped necro threads.
    This thread is very relevant now.

    March 15th approaches.

  9. #9
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    We'll be hearing more about trying to raise the Debt Limit:

    It's VERY relevant.



    Debt limit looks like a real struggle after health bill debacle

    By Steve Goldstein
    Published: Mar 27, 2017

    The difficulty Republicans had with AHCA shows intraparty disputes are still around

    The annual wrangling around the debt limit was set to disappear, pundits thought, since Republican control of both the executive and legislative branch would effectively make any showdown over such a silly exercise an own goal.

    That’s the current view in the Trump White House at least.

    “We’ve spent the money. The concept of the debt limit is somewhat of a ridiculous concept,” said Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin on Friday. “I am hopeful that this something Congress addresses before the [summer] break. I think everybody understands we need to raise the debt limit, and that’s something we’re going to do.”

    Debt limit looks like a real struggle after health bill debacle - MarketWatch

  10. #10
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    Wait till these tax cuts come knocking and see how much the Republicans really give a fuck about deficits or the debt.

  11. #11
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    For Fiscal Year 2015 the US Federal Gov't took in $3.25 Trillion but spent $3.688 Trillion leaving a deficit of $438 Billion.
    That sounds like quite a few cheeseburgers to me.

    For that fiscal year the Feds spent over $180 Billion paying "net interest on the debt" (or approx 6% of their total expenditures).
    Anyone want to play strip-poker ?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeeCoffee View Post
    For Fiscal Year 2015 the US Federal Gov't took in $3.25 Trillion but spent $3.688 Trillion leaving a deficit of $438 Billion.
    That sounds like quite a few cheeseburgers to me.

    For that fiscal year the Feds spent over $180 Billion paying "net interest on the debt" (or approx 6% of their total expenditures).
    Anyone want to play strip-poker ?
    And that's *after* Obama fixed the fucking mess Bush left.

    FY 2017 - $441 billion projected.
    FY 2016 - $600 billion expected.
    FY 2015 - $438 billion.
    FY 2014 - $485 billion.
    FY 2013 - $679 billion.
    FY 2012 - $1.087 trillion.
    FY 2011 - $1.300 trillion.
    FY 2010 - $1.547 ($1.294 trillion plus $253 billion from the Obama Stimulus Act that was attached to the FY 2009 budget).
    FY 2009 - $1.16 trillion. ($1.413 trillion minus $253 billion from Obama's Stimulus Act)

  13. #13
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    Harry,

    Many policy makers and bankers were behind the mess in 2008. It started long before. Even Harry Cisneros was a part of it.

    For the last 70+ years the US has run annual deficits every year (except for 2 or 3 years).

    More....*cough*....news....projections.


    POLITICS | Thu Mar 30, 2017
    U.S. debt to reach 150 percent of GDP in 30 years: CBO


    By David Lawder | WASHINGTON
    U.S. debt held by the public will balloon to 150 percent of economic output by 2047 unless tax and spending laws are changed, the Congressional Budget Office said on Thursday, far exceeding the record level just after World War II.

    The new projections show steeper 30-year debt growth than last year's long-term forecast by the non-partisan budget analysis agency,
    and could make it harder for some members of Congress to support a tax reform plan that is partly financed with higher deficits.

    Last year, the CBO estimated U.S. public debt would grow to 141 percent of gross domestic product by 2046, while the record was 106 percent of GDP in 1946. That level would be reached in 2035, the CBO said.

    Under this year's projection, CBO predicts public debt for 2017 to be about 77 percent of GDP, growing to 89 percent in 2027, and 113 percent in 2037.

    The new forecasts assume that the Affordable Care Act, the healthcare law known as Obamacare that House Republicans failed to replace last week, stays in place for the long term.

    The projected debt growth reflects CBO's estimates of the rising costs of caring for a growing population of people over 65, growth in interest costs, and assumptions of slower economic growth due to reduced assumptions about productivity gains.

    Annual deficits are expected to average 8.6 percent of GDP in the 2038-2047 period
    versus 2.9 percent expected for 2017 and 4.0 percent for the 2018-2027 period.

    The long-term projections extend CBO's assumptions made in its 10-year budget outlook in January, which showed falling deficits for the next two years, but growth thereafter.

    Net interest costs in 2047 are expected to be 6.2 percent of GDP, compared with 1.4 percent in 2017 and about 1.2 percent in 1967, the CBO said.

    U.S. debt to reach 150 percent of GDP in 30 years: CBO | Reuters

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    30 year projections? Are they still doing those?

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    Something that does not appear to have been factored into all this is pollution, not air pollution but ground and water pollution from pumping huge amounts of waste into deep wells much of it toxic chemicals and some containing lethal amounts of radiation.

    This mostly comes from two sources industrial toxic waste and fracking. Fracking in particular is a big contributor as much of the chemical soup that is pumped into the wells comes out again and is sometimes farther contaminated with natural radiation from the substrata which it concentrates. This has to be disposed of and is mostly pumped at pressure into deep wells. There is already instances of this waste seeping into water supplies, aquifers and back to the surface.

    This will in the not to distant future reach a critical stage meaning that other more expensive ways will have to be found of disposing of industrial waste and fracking will be stopped with the consequence that the US the worlds biggest oil user will have to import more oil which will increase in price and really blow out the budget.

    Some sites :

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...ath-our-feeth/

    https://www.fractracker.org/2015/08/1-7-million-wells/

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...rous-chemicals

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...disposal-wells

  16. #16
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    The road to the Twunny Trill debt:

    Here’s how the U.S. got to $20 trillion in debt


    By Robert Schroeder
    Published: Apr 1, 2017

    Fighting wars, big tax cuts and economic stimulus packages have all added to the debt burden



    The U.S. is approaching $20 trillion in national debt — the nation is a cool $19.8 trillion in the red as of Thursday — and when it crosses that mark, get ready for some finger pointing over who’s to blame.

    If history shows anything, it’s that both parties share responsibility for boosting the debt. Fighting wars, big tax cuts and economic stimulus packages have all added to the burden over the years.



    Here, we’ll take a look at some key moments in the debt’s trajectory until now, and also where it is going.

    In August 1981, with the U.S. at the beginning of a recession, President Ronald Reagan signed major tax cuts into law. While Reagan’s supporters credit the cuts in tax rates with juicing the stock market and the U.S. economy, the downside was obvious: less money flowing into the government’s coffers. A U.S. Treasury paper shows the 1981 act reduced federal revenue by an average of $118 billion a year (in today’s dollars) during the first four years.




    President George W. Bush also signed tax-cut packages into law in 2001 and 2003.
    Individual-income tax rates were cut, as were taxes on capital gains and dividends. This table shows where the Bush tax cuts fall in size compared to other major bills. President Barack Obama extended the cuts for two years in 2010, and made most of them permanent in 2012. Kathy Ruffing, a consultant to the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, estimates that the cuts originally enacted during the Bush years will account for $5 trillion of debt outstanding through fiscal 2017. That includes interest.



    The U.S. spent heavily on the wars in Afghanistan — which the U.S. invaded after the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks — and Iraq. According to consultant Kathy Ruffing, the two wars account for about $2 trillion of the debt, including interest.


    The year-and-a-half long Great Recession began in December 2007, brought on by the collapse of the U.S. housing market. The downturn spanned the Bush and Obama presidencies, and heralded the ballooning of budget deficits as the government responded with huge bank bailout and stimulus programs. In fiscal years 2009-2012, deficits exceeded $1 trillion.




    With the U.S. still reeling from the Great Recession, President Barack Obama signed the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act in February 2009. In addition to tax cuts, Obama’s stimulus bill spent billions of dollars on unemployment benefits and infrastructure projects. Obama said the plan would be “a major milestone on our road to recovery,” but Republicans trashed the measure as a waste of government money. Originally scored at $787 billion, the Congressional Budget Office in 2015 put its price tag higher, at $836 billion. Including interest payments, it added $1 trillion to the debt through fiscal 2016, according to the Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget.

    [imghttp://ei.marketwatch.com//Multimedia/2017/03/27/Photos/MG/MW-FI984_obama__20170327114739_MG.jpg?uuid=b512d35a-1304-11e7-9ead-001cc448aede[/img]

    CBO

    The debt is projected to keep growing as the U.S. spends more on programs for its aging population. The Congressional Budget Office estimates that if current laws remain the same — that is, if President Donald Trump and the Republican Congress were to do nothing — debt held by the public would rise to 150% of the total economy in 2047 from the 77% it’s at now. Trump has vowed a few polices that could have a big impact on the debt, including major tax cuts and a military buildup. What’s more, he pledged to leave programs including Medicare and Social Security unchanged. A tax plan Trump proposed during the campaign would add about $7.2 trillion to the debt over a decade, the Tax Policy Center estimated.



    Here?s how the U.S. got to $20 trillion in debt - MarketWatch

  17. #17
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    Bumped this one because I have just noticed the debt clock as already passed $20 Trillion without even a celebration, but then we have had NK, Trump and Putin to keep the media busy.

    U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time

  18. #18
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    And what about the cost of the Food Stamps? The generous $123/m?
    Something left over for Harvey, Irma, etc?

  19. #19
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    Sixth Avenue’s National Debt Clock coming down — for now

    By Steve Cuozzo

    June 5, 2017

    Time’s run out on the National Debt Clock at 1133 Sixth Ave., where it’s flashed the sobering stats on US indebtedness from the West 44th Street side of the Durst Organization-owned office tower since 2004.
    No, the debt hasn’t magically vanished, despite President Trump’s recent boast about a tiny, short-lived “down-tick” since he took office.
    The “clock” — not a timepiece, but a ticker that estimates the current US national debt and each family’s average share of it, according to US Treasury data — will come down on June 8 to make room for a new building entrance, Durst’s spokesman said.
    The curious chronometer has been part of New York City street lore since the late, eccentric developer Seymour Durst first put it up on the then-seedy northwest corner of Sixth Avenue and 42nd Street on Feb. 20, 1989. The national debt at that time was under $3 trillion.
    Durst vowed that the clock would stay up “as long as the debt or the city lasts,” and added, “if it bothers people, then it’s working.”

    http://nypost.com/2017/06/05/sixth-avenues-national-debt-clock-coming-down-for-now/

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